zeroshiki

Member
Oct 26, 2017
414
Be mindful when discussing this topic. And keep it to official news sources.

There are a lot of problematic elements in Japan's visual medium that leans with components of underage sexualisation, and it is an industry-wide problem that not just covers drawn illustrations, but even gravure; all of which are merit for discussion.

But at the same time, let's avoid going down the pool of assuming or being overly speculative about other prominent creators...

Even if they are authors of promiscuous content. Otherwise we can easily name dozens, if not hundreds of authors of all genders. No random guessing.

Stuff like the prior history of authors like Mitsutoshi Shimabukuro and any related concerns stemming from similar issues is fair though.

Any way we can stop the "I hope <totally unrelated author> isn't a pedophile or I will cry" posts?
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
I don't like the idea of speculating who and who isn't a pedophile based on pure conjecture. But I do worry that this may be part of a systemic culture amongst Shonen Jump or even the wider manga artist community.
This is the sort of thing that's a systemic thing underlying all culture, it can pop up anywhere. Being an artist or author isn't going to have anything to do with whether or not someone's seeking this stuff out.
 

Deleted member 7156

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
783
OP seems to be implying it's an IRL video of a girl, and not loli
"Naked video of a girl" sounds like a real video to me.

Watsuki didn't seem like this kind of person. This is really strange...

The OP is pretty clear, it's a real video of a real girl.

Wouldn't be an issue otherwise as sexualized drawings of Lolis are not illegal in Japan.
 

zeroshiki

Member
Oct 26, 2017
414
He also told the police that he likes elementary to middle school girls. Let's not even consider the possibility that he's innocent.
 

KonradLaw

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,960
" Child pornography for children under 18 years of age for sexual purposes shall be imprisoned for not more than 1 year or a fine of not more than 1 million yen."

What the fuck, you only get a year? For fucking CP???
Untill recently it was legal to own that kind of material in Japan. So that's still a progress
 

Nightengale

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,713
Malaysia
Is my edited post out of line? I'll remove it altogether if it is.

Don't worry too much about it. We understand that these kind of news are frustrating; seeing your heroes turn out to be human trash and naturally you'll fear and be afraid that others that you look up to could also be bad. It's natural to have that reaction.

Moderation in this context is just so that thread doesn't get derailed
 

Tpallidum

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,181
God damn it dude... FUCK
Legit angry and disappointed

Judd Apatow was on the Preet Bharara podcast talking about the recent sexual misconduct allegations in general and I think I agree with him about art becoming ruined when you find out the artist is a piece of shit. I get some people can separate the work from creator but I can't. I just can't view it art the same way anymore knowing what I know because you start looking for things that take on a new meaning. Kenshin is ruined for me now.
 

Hat22

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,652
Canada
OP seems to be implying it's an IRL video of a girl, and not loli
"Naked video of a girl" sounds like a real video to me.

Watsuki didn't seem like this kind of person. This is really strange...

That is the case according to English sources. Dunno if they're official but that's what Anime News Network says.

The comparison with rape is a bit disingenuous, the argument would be that heterosexual men don't rape women just because they're not having sex, instead they use porn to relieve themselves of their need.

The difference being that heterosexual men could theoretically have consensual sex at some point, while that's not the case for pedophiles.

Unfortunately there's no real science behind it and I doubt there will be anytime soon, as it would involve tracking pedophiles for long periods of time and you'd be hard pressed to find people to participate in such studies.




That's part of what makes it the more surprising, there are a number of authors who have displayed such tendencies but Watsuki (as far as my knowledge goes) is not one of them.

People seem to equate these things. Is it really fair to assume that people interested in fictional representations want the the real thing? Seems kinda like equating furrydom to beastiality.

I seriously doubt that such drawings would "satiate" an actual pedophile.
 
Oct 26, 2017
3,434
God damn it dude... FUCK
Legit angry and disappointed

Judd Apatow was on the Preet Bharara podcast talking about the recent sexual misconduct allegations in general and I think I agree with him about art becoming ruined when you find out the artist is a piece of shit. I get some people can separate the work from creator but I can't. I just can't view it art the same way anymore knowing what I know because you start looking for things that take on a new meaning. Kenshin is ruined for me now.

It depends on the person. I'm easily able to pass stuff like this off as "Whatever, people suck" and continue enjoying the art as if nothing happened (take that as you will).
 

Mortemis

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
7,458
No, he was caught for possession, not production. He bought/downloaded/whatever videos, nothing about him being actually producing any of it.

Okay. I got wrapped up in the "someone said it was a picture from his office" part, but I don't see a source on it.

Still think that he should get more than a single year tho
 

Z..

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
309
" Child pornography for children under 18 years of age for sexual purposes shall be imprisoned for not more than 1 year or a fine of not more than 1 million yen."

What the fuck, you only get a year? For fucking CP???

I don't understand, would people like it to be more? Why? Honest question, since only having the porn isn't that serious an offense. In this case it's irrelevant since part of the stuff in his collection indicates he was actually involved in it directly, but for just having the porn I'm not seeing why 1 year is unreasonable in any way.
 

TheMadTitan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
27,414
Considering overlap between traditional manga, anime, and their various formats of hentai --as I recall, several artists sometimes work on hentai when not doing mainstream stuff-- and the way their porn is structured and the way they seem to think about sex in general from an outsiders perspective, it's not going to surprise me if so and so are discovered with child porn stashes.
 

Z..

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
309
No, he was caught for possession, not production. He bought/downloaded/whatever videos, nothing about him being actually producing any of it.
Oh, I misunderstood this then. I assumed he had actually engaged in pedophilia, that quote in the OP is a bit misleading if this is the case.
 

Deleted member 12555

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,113
This is really disappointing.

Ruroken is probably my favorite shounen manga, I love practically everything about it. And while I won't be purposefully stopping myself from rewatching the anime or re-reading the manga, I know it won't be the same. I don't even know if I'll be able to enjoy it at all.

Really sad that he gave into that side of him getting that kind of material, knowing full well it isn't acceptable behavior. Like, how do you even get help in such a case. We can be so weak as human beings.

Wonder how this will affect his public perception over there.
 

Defuser

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,346
I don't understand, would people like it to be more? Why? Honest question, since only having the porn isn't that serious an offense. In this case it's irrelevant since part of the stuff in his collection indicates he was actually involved in it directly, but for just having the porn I'm not seeing why 1 year is unreasonable in any way.
By having it in his posession means he is part of the problem of why there is a market of child porn. When there is a demand there always be someone willing to supply even if it means the expense of innocent children.
 

Kain-Nosgoth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,736
Switzerland
Damn that sucks! He definitely need to be charged for supporting child exploitation, i don't know is 1 year is long enough, i don't like long incarceration and punishment mentality, but to me 1-2 years with a bigass fine seems ok... watching the thing doesn't mean he will ever do that in real life
the same is for people who watch rape porn, the majority won't go rape someone just because they watch it...

in my opinion once you find someone with taste for CP, as long as they didn't already acted on it, they need therapy immediatly...
 

Z..

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
309
How is Japan not a pedo utopia with soft laws like this?

You're talking about a country where the biggest current porn star is a 24 year old man who looks 7 or 8.
By having it in his posession means he is part of the problem of why there is a market of child porn. When there is a demand there always be someone willing to supply even if it means the expense of innocent children.
Agreed on all counts, still don't think 1 year is a leninent sentence, though. Considering the offense in question it will ruin one's life completely regardless.
 

massoluk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,663
Thailand
Damn that sucks! He definitely need to be charged for supporting child exploitation, i don't know is 1 year is long enough, i don't like long incarceration and punishment mentality, but to me 1-2 years with a bigass fine seems ok... watching the thing doesn't mean he will ever do that in real life
the same is for people who watch rape porn, the majority won't go rape someone just because they watch it...

in my opinion once you find someone with taste for CP, as long as they didn't already acted on it, they need therapy immediatly...
Rape porn as in real rape or rape fantasy?
Child porn & real rape = Real victim
Hentai loli porn & rape fantasy = creepy, arguably reinforcing troubling culture, but no real victim
 

Sander VF

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
26,178
Tbilisi, Georgia
Using the stone mask and becoming a bloodthirsty vampire isn't enough for you?

Also, why are we still using "milkshake duck"? Thought we retired that term after it lost all meaning.
It's an easy term to signify a person you look up to doing something unsavory or even just turning out to be an asshole.

Also he's beyond mere vampires. He's an ultimate being pillar man! Basking in sunlight and all.
 

Kain-Nosgoth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,736
Switzerland
You're talking about a country where the biggest current porn star is a 24 year old man who looks 7 or 8.

I don't think he's the biggest porn star, just that he started recently and lot of people talked about it! Speaking of that, what would you think of the girl or guy who dates someone like that? Would it be bad? would they be considered pedophile? I mean everyone deserves love, even if you look like 10

Rape porn as in real rape or rape fantasy?
Child porn & real rape = Real victim
Hentai loli porn & rape fantasy = creepy, arguably reinforcing troubling culture, but no real victim

rape fantasy of course...

For this case here it seems it was naked girl, not sex, or am i mistaken (not that this is not awful regardless)? Like i said he definitely need to be charged and arrested for supporting the industry, i don't deny that
 

massoluk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,663
Thailand
speaking of that, what would you think of the girl or guy who dates someone like that? Would it be bad? would they be considered pedophile? I mean everyone deserves love, even if you look like 10



rape fantasy of course...

For this case here it seems it was just naked girl, not sex, or am i mistaken? Like i said he definitely need to be charged and arrested for supporting the industry, i don't deny that
You are equating rape fantasy with Child pornography, which I really disagree with. One feeds demand for illegal activities, the other one not really
 

Chairmanchuck (另一个我)

Teyvat Traveler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,175
China
Can anyone tell me why "borderline" CP is still legal in Japan?

They are still selling "junior gravure idol" DVDs there where those kids are sucking on bananas, are taking bath only covered by foam, licking ice cream cones where the "white stuff" is falling on their bodies, act sexual poses (while clothed) and stuff like that...
 

Z..

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
309
speaking of that, what would you think of the girl or guy who dates someone like that? Would it be bad? would they be considered pedophile? I mean everyone deserves love, even if you look like 10
Quite frankly both would be equally fucked up. The stuff with the guy is stomach churning enough as it is and he mostly just hangs about being a third wheel while some other guy does the heavy lifting, I can only imagine it being even creepier if it were a girl since she'd have a more direct role.
I love Japan and Japanese culture, but they need some serious wake up calls in some regards.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,784
It's an easy term to signify a person you look up to doing something unsavory or even just turning out to be an asshole.

Also he's beyond mere vampires. He's an ultimate being pillar man! Basking in sunlight and all.

Eh, I just feel like it's been overused at this point. It's been applied to every flawed human being and not just people that do super despicable stuff. It's also a twitter meme that refers to a very specific situation about a 5 minutes of fame scenario, not a known entity for decades. The Last Night is the ONLY time I've seen the term used correctly.

But this is off topic, so my bad...
 

Kain-Nosgoth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,736
Switzerland
Quite frankly both would be equally fucked up. The stuff with the guy is stomach churning enough as it is and he mostly just hangs about being a third wheel while some other guy does the heavy lifting, I can only imagine it being even creepier if it were a girl since she'd have a more direct role.
I love Japan and Japanese culture, but they need some serious wake up calls in some regards.

But the guy himself wanted to do that, he even directs the video, isn't he free to do that? But lets throw away the porn side of the thing, what do you thing about someone who date a man or woman with this condition that looks like 10?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,784
Can anyone tell me why "borderline" CP is still legal in Japan?

They are still selling "junior gravure idol" DVDs there where those kids are sucking on bananas, are taking bath only covered by foam, licking ice cream cones where the "white stuff" is falling on their bodies, act sexual poses (while clothed) and stuff like that...

I thought they were cracking down on junior idols?