I don't know why I decided to come in here before bed. Not gonna be able to sleep for a good long while now.
They just... left them there all this time?
Jeez.
Also unrelated to retreating then.
Its just so sad that Russian gov can lie and subterfuge, and get away with it
I assumed they were victims of massacres carried out during the retreat as well. Perhaps they were left in the streets as a way of further terrorising the population
That would be a correct assumption as similar actions are definitely not uncommon in history.
I wish this man could sleep for a whole month straight after the war is over.
Also, just a basic question: why would Ukrainians kill themselves?
Watching stuff like this is always horrifying and defeating, realizing how effective and easy it is to brainwash people with state run television.
A lot of people even crave this kind of shit, you can see it in the states with Fox News being extremely popular despite largely just being a fairly obvious propaganda channel for GOP interests.
I doubt the Ukrainian-held portions of the city were being held entirely by 200 marines, so no, there is still assumedly a Ukrainian for in the city. That's why they said first. But more probably are to come.
To people drinking the kool aid who were already lost. Most of the world isn't buying their shit.
most countries aren't, but I assume Chinese state media won't want to put their unlimited partner in a bad light. And there's 1.4 billion of them.
Yeah, they've done as well as anyone could have expected under the circumstances (cut off and under siege for weeks) - my concern is what sort of torture/summary execution they'll face. I'm hoping the ICRC can get involved.
🤔 I think you are mistaking bellingcat with someone else?
I don't know. This don't look like Marines. More like territorial forces. Plus this looks somewhere on the countryside and I'm pretty sure all the fights now in Mariupol are deep in the city. No armbands either except for two with silver (?) ones.
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The videos we've seen of the Mariupol marines specifically... they are some of the most marked up guys out there. They kind of look like ninja turtles they have so much blue tape going on, including on the helmet. It's not that I don't believe a surrender is possible (it's actually to be expected) but this looks really weird at first glance.
What?
Bellingcat have been exposing Russian BS since... well, 2014, when it launched.
Cos Nazis.
That's it. That's the answer they have for it all. It's the umbrella for everything: NATO provocation two weeks ago, Ukrainian irredentism the next two weeks.
They way the Russian Embassies keep spouting bullshit (the Russian Embassy in Germany keeps going on about how the massacre is fake) makes me want to kick all of them out
Yeah, these aren't bad apples and this wasn't done for some kind of fucked up expedience. This is a systematic and deliberate playbook. This is the Russian army.
You're overlooking Russian political theater doctrine, which by design aims to obscure the truth by constantly formulating and releasing contradicting propaganda. Russian politics are probably the most debased and cynical in the entire world. Putin, his government, and the Oligarchs are nothing more than a self-legalized mafia organization. We all need to start looking at Russia as a grandiose mafia with a military apparatus than a legitimate state.
From what I see, isolation is the key. You have to make sure they consider you to be the only trustworthy source of information there is. China is a good example of this, they have isolated their news and social media from outside world very effectively. Also in order to be effective, you need to give the impression that they are being "assaulted from all sides". That others are trying to trick and lie to you, "I'm only one you can trust". You might see signs of this in how Fox News & Co. produce news. Everything "the others" do is a threat. This makes people less likely to seek alternative sources.
TV is very effective in this regard because it's a PASSIVE information provider. You sit down, turn your brain off and just accept whatever TV spews at you. Using Google to search information for example is an ACTIVE exercise the person has control over, and thus much harder to control. Language barriers are also effective.
But the key factor is isolation. It is critical to keep the groups isolated from each other. Can't risk the groups talking to each other, they might find alternative information sources and learn "unsanctioned information". You know, on how to live peacefully with each other.
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The relief center I mentioned a few pages ago gave another update on the Russian occupation of their town, which is ongoing. Russian soldiers came to their center and had a lot of questions about what they were doing, who they were feeding, what people were talking about, etc. They demanded access to the relief center's safe, which was eventually given. Luckily, it was empty anyway. They're just leaving the safe open now since they assume this won't be the last time troops come by. No reports of atrocities in this town yet, maybe because the town is about 50% Russian and hasn't had any fighting in it. But I am obviously fearful of what the future holds. The people who work at the center are just going to keep cooking and feeding people as long as they can.
It is explicitly meant to troll and demoralize people, especially the opposition intelligentsia. Everything these assholes do is with a Big Lie bad faith execution. They know that they are full of shit and they also know that we know that they are full of shit. It's explicitly done to demoralize, in a way that says, "We all know this is bullshit, but what are you going to do about it?" It's tantamount to taunting with a threat of violence and force for those who are really meant to consume it.
And in case anyone didn't put 2 and 2 together, these are the same exact tactics that Trump and his enablers employed with the stolen election Big Lie nonsense in 2020. In one way it was fodder for Trumpers to unify behind some kind of propaganda-based excuse, but collectively it was Trump, the GOP, and ultimately the Kremlin's way of terrorizing Americans who vote/lean/are Democrats.
You know, I feel stupid that I ever thought Putin gave a fuck about Kyiv and "Kyivan Rus". Nah, that was just plan A. Apparently plan B was to surround Kyiv and level it to the ground if necessary, while using or tolerating mass child rape, torture and murders, alongside many other crimes, reminiscent of tactics from the middle ages. And he thinks he can pull this off with the approval of the Russian people, thanks to state propaganda. We knew North Korea level of propaganda is verhy effective, but I don't think we thought it would be this cancerous even in a connected, semi-modern country like Russia.
At home, in current democracies, we should learn from that need to address the lasting and potentially fatal damage that is being caused by Fake news. Both in Social media and in Television (Fox, Newsmax, Oann). Without Fake News, there is no Jan6 insurrection, there is no Donald Trump, most of Fox's opinion hosts. I mean, do they have ANY credible hosts left now that they forced Shepard Smith and Chris Wallace out with their embrace of fascism? That is surely a very bad sign. The battle appears to be heavily stacked against the truth.
Having grown up in a country with no free press at all, I can barely imagine the situation in Russia, where there were 4 Fox newses, 4 OANNs, 4 Newsmaxes and 1 NBC news. Where several journalists were pushed out of windows or shot for being critical of Putin. Oh and that NBC news I mentioned a line ago is now closed. Same thing with the last semi-free newspapers. Same thing with Social media. How are all those brainwashed Z-ombies going to be enlightened as to the disgusting truth that the vast majority of them have Ukrainian children's blood on their hands.
Russia isn't that special in the populace's love for strong men. Even in Nato Europe, Orban and Erdogan have been steadily destroying democracy and freedom in their countries. What is the truth-loving world going to do to prevent more atrocities enabled by Fake News and its alumni outside our borders? Nothing? Just wait until it's time to slaughter a few tens of thousands of 19 year olds brainwashed by a bunch of psychos? Just like there should be sensible gun legislation in place, there should be anti-lie controls. The latter is actually much more important because the pen still is mightier than the sword. And by pen, I mean sewer holes like Tucker Carlson 's mouth dumping all their sugar-coated venomous dung into normal people's heads.
I feel the west is still largely in denial, despite even these war crimes. Only the ex soviet countries on the chopping block are clear-eyed enough, and they are not being heeded nearly as much. In fact, every single thing they propose should be agreed to and done. And they should be the ones trusted with materiel decisions, having dealt with the russian imperialistic, revanchist mindset far longer than anybody else. France, Italy and Germany should shut the fuck up after fucking up so bad. And so should Obama with his disastrous reset. Continuing to Prop up a dictator in 2008 when he refused to go away instead of immediately divesting and neutralizing the latent fascist thread was an immoral, stupid thing to do. Can you believe that even when, miraculously, the right thing to do and the profitable thing to do, long-term, are the same, key leaders still choose short term profit?
At home, in current democracies, we should learn from that need to address the lasting and potentially fatal damage that is being caused by Fake news. Both in Social media and in Television (Fox, Newsmax, Oann). Without Fake News, there is no Jan6 insurrection, there is no Donald Trump, most of Fox's opinion hosts. I mean, do they have ANY credible hosts left now that they forced Shepard Smith and Chris Wallace out with their embrace of fascism? That is surely a very bad sign. The battle appears to be heavily stacked against the truth.
Having grown up in a country with no free press at all, I can barely imagine the situation in Russia, where there were 4 Fox newses, 4 OANNs, 4 Newsmaxes and 1 NBC news. Where several journalists were pushed out of windows or shot for being critical of Putin. Oh and that NBC news I mentioned a line ago is now closed. Same thing with the last semi-free newspapers. Same thing with Social media. How are all those brainwashed Z-ombies going to be enlightened as to the disgusting truth that the vast majority of them have Ukrainian children's blood on their hands.
Russia isn't that special in the populace's love for strong men. Even in Nato Europe, Orban and Erdogan have been steadily destroying democracy and freedom in their countries. What is the truth-loving world going to do to prevent more atrocities enabled by Fake News and its alumni outside our borders? Nothing? Just wait until it's time to slaughter a few tens of thousands of 19 year olds brainwashed by a bunch of psychos? Just like there should be sensible gun legislation in place, there should be anti-lie controls. The latter is actually much more important because the pen still is mightier than the sword. And by pen, I mean sewer holes like Tucker Carlson 's mouth dumping all their sugar-coated venomous dung into normal people's heads.
I feel the west is still largely in denial, despite even these war crimes. Only the ex soviet countries on the chopping block are clear-eyed enough, and they are not being heeded nearly as much. In fact, every single thing they propose should be agreed to and done. And they should be the ones trusted with materiel decisions, having dealt with the russian imperialistic, revanchist mindset far longer than anybody else. France, Italy and Germany should shut the fuck up after fucking up so bad. And so should Obama with his disastrous reset. Continuing to Prop up a dictator in 2008 when he refused to go away instead of immediately divesting and neutralizing the latent fascist thread was an immoral, stupid thing to do. Can you believe that even when, miraculously, the right thing to do and the profitable thing to do, long-term, are the same, key leaders still choose short term profit?
Honest question: did you even bother to check any facts? And what do you think how many nuclear power plants are in Germany?
We're talking about 3 (!) nuclear power plants. All the other ones have been shut down (some for years). In 2020, nuclear power provided 5.2% of Germany's electricity and 12.6% in 2021 with then 6 active plants (see here). Their output is absolutely negligible. You'd need to build new ones, which would take years. The Merkel government did a shit decision getting rid of nuclear energy so quickly but saying Germany should now power them back up cause Russia is a rubbish argument.
"Seeming likelier Russian forces may have committed horrible crimes against civilians"...hmmm. yeah i dont know, im not quite convinced just yet about russia actively committing war crimes and crimes against humanity out in the open, on video tape, in pictures from a satellite in FUCKING SPACE, and all over social media. its possible, maybe. but i think i need more proof. someone needs to investigate it.
like seriously what the fuck.
There is no punishment severe enough for what these bastards are doing. Absolutely evil motherfuckers.
There should never be a normalization of ties with Putin's Russia. We should adopt and maintain a hawkish posture towards Russia until they implode in due time. No going back to appeasement, no going back to business as usual.
The key part of that sentence which you cut out is "anywhere they occupied"; this person isn't saying that Russian forces committing crimes against civilians in general is seeming likelier to them, it's that these crimes taking place in all the places they've occupied is.
"Seeming likelier Russian forces may have committed horrible crimes against civilians anywhere they occupied." as in what happened in Bucha is the norm, they're likely doing the same thing everywhere as we're getting similar reports from other parts of the country under russian occupation
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I'm not saying they invented any particular type of populist rhetoric. I'm saying that their brand of psyops / information warfare employs a distinct signature and style. They are reusing the same words and phrases in slightly different contexts, tailored to different warfronts/locales. Given Trump's 30+ years of being almost exclusively funded by Russian Oligarchs and banks, in addition to his Putin-esque style of rhetoric, propaganda / information warfare tactics, subversion of democratic institutions, and deference to Putin on all geopolitical matters (even over the advice of US intelligence agencies), I think it's pretty safe to say with a high level of confidence that Trump is a literal Russian asset. He is a Russian-backed "manchurian candidate". Except he actually won the presidency and did huge amounts of damage to western influence and trust in the process (exactly what master Putin wanted him to do).
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Yes, they do need to investigate it. There should be as much proof as possible. What are you even talking about?
Countires play a game with ambassadors and diplomats. It is largely understood by everyone involved that a significant % of diplomats are actually spies. That creates a sort of balance. Allowing reciprocal number of diplomats means allowing a reciprocal number of spies. Expelling the Russian ambassador from your country means reducing your intelligence gathering capabilities at a time when they are most valuable.
I agree with you that they should be removed. But plenty of countries have spent a lot of time and money getting intelligence resources in certain places and they are reticent to let them go.
What changes now? What changes now that there is physical evidence of war crimes committed by the Russian Army?
Anything?
Anything?
Yep. I can't find the video, but I think it should be required viewing for people to see that video of the politician stammering in front of Putin while he berates him into swearing that he supports the invasion. Basically has him kiss the ring on live TV
Because that is the reason why other countries can have a embassy in Moscow.
A embassy is important if you don't want to have a blind eye.
It is the central base for every intelligence service.
I mean, they refused to accept the almighty Putler as the true lord tzar and didn't prostrate themselves in the presence of His ambassadors, when they delivered the Minsk Commandments.
What other provocation could possibly be required?
/s
This isn't a reasonable opponent. This is a despotic horde whose army has been specifically negatively selected to be a ravenous mob that can be unleashed upon it'd neighbors to suppress all dissent.
Its an anachronism that doesn't fit anymore. The sooner this is understood by the rest of the world, the better.
Safe to say, most Ukrainians prior to the 24th did not understand it either.
Now the world'd better fucking learn from our mistake. And do it fast enough to make a difference
