Everytime the US supports Israel and does not recognize the legitimacy of the Palestinian people.
Russian Navy opens fire on Ukrainian Ships in the Black Sea
- Thread starter Kodama4
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I thought your point was that the US was doing evil things behind the scenes in regards to Ukraine, not that a US diplomat used a bad word in a private phone call that got leaked.
Fucking Putin is getting more emboldened by the day. From annexation to assassination in a European country and now this. Well no one is going to stop him so Putin won´t stop.
"There's never been a president as tough on Russia as I have been." - Donald Trump, July 2018.
November 2018:
"About the fact that President Obama allowed a very large part of Ukraine to be taken [by Russia]," he added.
When a reporter stated that "it was President Putin who annexed Crimea," Trump responded by saying, "That was President Obama's regime. That was during President Obama. Right?
"It was President Obama that allowed it to happen."
November 2018:
"About the fact that President Obama allowed a very large part of Ukraine to be taken [by Russia]," he added.
When a reporter stated that "it was President Putin who annexed Crimea," Trump responded by saying, "That was President Obama's regime. That was during President Obama. Right?
"It was President Obama that allowed it to happen."
Everything Israel does is because of American unflinching support so.....
Off the top of my head, either Hawaii or the Marshalls. 120 or 70 years ago
I never said US was doing evil things. I've said they've doing what ANY superpower has done in the history of mankind. This is just politics.
Dude, I feel bad for Palestine, but this is really shitty timing. I don't jump into Palestine threads and start pointing out what Russia is doing in Ukraine. It's really bad taste.
Argumentum Ad Hominem Tu Quoque
Argument against the person: "you too"
"You do this too. You have no right to criticize."
"You're just as bad. Mind your own business."
A fallacious (logically flawed, dishonest) form of argument used to divert attention away from the thing being argued over. Whataboutism is a form of ad hominem tu quoque specifically used by Soviet/Russian proponents to wave away criticism of their government's actions by pointing out flaws in other nation's politics.
Argument against the person: "you too"
"You do this too. You have no right to criticize."
"You're just as bad. Mind your own business."
A fallacious (logically flawed, dishonest) form of argument used to divert attention away from the thing being argued over. Whataboutism is a form of ad hominem tu quoque specifically used by Soviet/Russian proponents to wave away criticism of their government's actions by pointing out flaws in other nation's politics.
Wait. Who were Hawaii "annexed" from? Don't get me wrong I'm usually against expansionism. But decisions that led to Hawaii being a state are from the policies that were implemented hundreds of years ago. Plus I would have hoped that WW2 taught us at least something. At least in Europe.
I for one am definitely blaming historic American imperialism for these hostile acts against Ukraine by Russia.
From the not so sovereign Republic of Hawaii. But I'm not sure why we're talking about American expansionism in a Russian-Ukrainian thread.
Annexing another country hasn't been "just politics" for a long time
The last time the US forcibly annexed territory was 1898.
But, this is entirely off topic, so let's get back to Russia-Ukraine, shall we?
It's literally impossible. Every other post brings up some insane unrelated examples. There was almost everything in this thread from 9/11 to Hawaii and Palestine. I don't think that any other threads go this way, only threads specific to Russia/Ukraine war. It only shows how much better Russia is at propaganda.
Well, Clausewitz would disagree : "War is nothing but a continuation of politics with the admixture of other means".
US reconnaissance aircraft had their eyes on the Crimean and Russian coast today
Lol what?
What?! Are you drunk?
BIO: Male from Moscow. I have news for you. We are at was with you no matter what your dictator says. Maybe our government is shit, and maybe our army is weaker. But don't get me wrong. One thing the majority Ukraine can agree on is that we are at war with you. It's a hybrid war, but a war nevertheless.
Ok but diplomacy is just a normal thing countries do -- invading countries and attacking their ships unprovoked is not.
And this is what you said:
So you're acting like US doing diplomacy should be met with the same condemnations as Russia invading Ukraine and attacking ships.
Syria is still a sovereign nation and the only country the government of Syria has invited to help them is Russia. So why is the US army maintaining a presence there and helping terrorists from Saudi Arabia fight the government of Syria? That is attacking the legitimate government of a sovereign nation right? Why are the Americans not respecting Syria's right to sovereignty?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-42731222
What right does the US have to invade Syria with their army to counter Iranian influence in Syria? That's none of their business.
If Americans are indeed about respecting the sovereign rights of a nation they should get the hell out of the middle east instead of building military bases all over the place and propping up brutal dictators.
The opposition has been recognized as the legitimate representation of the Syrian people by the US and the EU. So your argument hinging on a legitimate government doesn't have such a clear foundation.
Russian Bear rattling its saber again, wasn't the opposition party in Sweden all on board for NATO? Acts of aggression like this against sovereign countries will further push Sweden towards NATO, which Russia doesn't want.
Eh Rapid Reaction force would be a symbolic gesture at best, give Ukraine what they need to defend themselves, give them high end weaponary and level the playing field
I believe the UK were signatories on that as well. They should have kept the nuclear weapons the way it all played out.
That would actually be a disaster for Putin, Russia's Baltic front would be even more exposed with NATO bases on Gotland. After Sweden there would just be Finland to join and Russia would have to face NATO from the Arctic Circle all the way to Belarus.
Which is why this aggression makes no sense, Sweden was already about 50/50 of wanting into NATO, and No way Finland becomes
A buffer state between NATO and Russia.
US and UK were supposed to protect Ukraine along with Russia. The whole thing is fucking depressing. People get upset in this thread about the shit that "the West" pulled in the past, but Crimea annexation is the definition of being stabbed in the back...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances
It's pretty sad that people want to just sacrifice the people of Ukraine, because they fall into Russia's sphere and if they were to join the EU, would always be a tasty snack for Russia, and some don't want to be bothered about protecting their neighbors.
I challenged Ex-Actarus' bogus claim that the US was doing bad things in Ukraine. This thread is about Ukraine, so I'm talking about Ukraine. I'm not sure why you're replying to me about Syria.
Anyway, it's odd you chose to frame Assad's Syria as the victim after they used chemical weapons on their own people, violating international law -- as you mention, one of their only allies is... Russia (though... unlike your claim, Iran is also helping).
I swear sometimes this place seems like it's infested by Russian bots.
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Not sure that they would allow a definite defeat to go unanswered without severely escalating the situation, which no one wants.
The old place had the same problems with certain individuals repeating the same see-through arguments.
Well there is a civil war in Ukraine as well with a section of eastern Ukrainians not accepting that the democratically elected pro-Russian government was toppled by the pro-western Ukrainians. The US and EU not recognizing the Syrian government is an easy excuse for them to attack a sovereign nation. What if Russia uses that excuses to invade Ukraine - they don't recognize the current Ukrainian government and will aid the opposition. Would that be ok for you?
The US played a role in instigating what happened in Ukraine. As Ex-Actarus pointed out several times. It's geopolitics. US meddling there and elected American elected officials encouraging protests against the Ukrainian elected government etc. If Russia was meddling in Mexico, Canada, South America etc, the US would pretty much be doing what the Russians are and all the jingoistic let's go attack some Russians types in here would be totally ok with it.
lol, the chemical weapons excuse? Do you know American regimes have literally sold chemical weapons to dictators like Saddam and stood by and did nothing when he gassed the Kurds? We know that the Americans are not there because Assad is an evil man. Why not invade Saudi Arabia and take down the house of Saud - people who are killing and torturing dissidents? Why not take the US military base out of Bahrain and demand they have elections? Americans only value democracy and sovereign rights if that country is pro-US.
Yes, I am a Russian bot for trying to point out that Americans pointing fingers at the shit Russia is doing when their country has done far, far worse is rather hilarious. The middle east is a hell hole for the people living there because of the US of A. But yes, let's not discuss all this because it's off topic and a thread derail.
Let's discuss what will be done about these Russians who have no respect at all for a nation's sovereignty. I doubt NATO will do anything. I doubt Europe has the energy to do anything. They will probably slap on some more sanctions and freeze some accounts of rich Russians and the world will move while Ukrainians continue to suffer from civil war and unrest.
Not apologising for Russia, but didn't the US annex Iraq a few years ago?
It seemed to destablise the middle east as well, as apparently ISIS used a lot of the abandoned equipment when the US left.
