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Samurai, are they over romanticised?

Jadow

Jadow

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Oct 27, 2017
3,001
Samurai are still pretty prevalent in todays pop culture even in the US, from movies, comics, videogames and of course anime and manga. They are always protrayed as loyal, fierce and downright total badass warriors. And the big question is, how glorified is the image of the samurai? I mean I've read even their katanas are not considered to be ideal compared to western swords so I would not be surprised if they are originally not as cool as portrayed.

What say you Era, have you researched the cool samurai before?

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Gray Fox

Gray Fox

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Jul 6, 2018
329
Weren't samurai just hired mercenaries? I don't think honor superseded money for them. Could be wrong though.
 
KoopaTheCasual

KoopaTheCasual

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Oct 27, 2017
6,797
They could also be huge fucking dicks, cutting down peasants in the street to "test out" their new swords.

Yes, they are over romanticized, as are most things that become fixtures in pop-culture.
 
Toxi

Toxi

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
17,561
Yes? Medieval feudal lords in general were pretty shitty people.

Jadow said:
I mean I've read even their katanas are not considered to be ideal compared to western swords so I would not be surprised if they are originally not as cool as portrayed.
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This is a horrendous oversimplification. The katana is a great design for a cutting sword when you're on an island archipelago with poor quality iron and you're mostly fighting unarmored opponents. Swords were designed based on the restrictions and needs of the time across the world.
 
Noodle

Noodle

Banned
Aug 22, 2018
3,427
Of course. Nothing could match up to the honour-bound warrior who lives for battle that's portrayed in popular media.

In fact the events of The Last Samurai film have the heroes and villains the wrong way round. Japan was trying to modernise and become like the western powers because they saw they'd be subsumed by them if they didn't start copying their ways. The samurai, already outdated and mostly an excuse for getting land and money, didn't want to give up their powers so rebelled.
 
shnurgleton

shnurgleton

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,864
Boston
yes, as are european knights, both of whom are classes of nobles whose job it is to suppress lower classes in service to a large landowner

swords r kool tho
 

Deleted member 4346

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Oct 25, 2017
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Of course, same with the knights of European feudalism. These were killers and thugs in all reality.
 
Dyle

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,398
Pretty much everything that seems remotely cool, in the traditional dudebro fashion at least, has had its history whitewashed
 
Vulcano's Assistant

Vulcano's Assistant

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Oct 29, 2017
13,743
Yes, but to be fair, when you watch a samurai movie the bad guy is 90 percent of the time another Samurai who is a despot and/or a murderer. So they are just as much the villain as the hero. The problem is creating the narrative that the feudal despot is an outlier and the honorable samurai or the chivalrous knight were the norm.
 
Matsukaze

Matsukaze

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Oct 25, 2017
4,246
Samurai, like their knight counterparts in Europe and a boatload of others, have been heavily romanticized.

The average samurai had no qualms about exploiting their improved social position to maximum benefit, including fucking over people beneath them for their own gain.
 

Deleted member 2779

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Oct 25, 2017
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Noodle said:
Of course. Nothing could match up to the honour-bound warrior who lives for battle that's portrayed in popular media.

In fact the events of The Last Samurai film have the heroes and villains the wrong way round. Japan was trying to modernise and become like the western powers because they saw they'd be subsumed by them if they didn't start copying their ways. The samurai, already outdated and mostly an excuse for getting land and money, didn't want to give up their powers so rebelled.
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No heroes in the valid scenario you've presented though, let's not risk romanticising Imperial Japan :p
 
Akira86

Akira86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,635
I dunno, I'm from a land where we all fight in giant robots with swords and shields, and I think samurai are a little overrated.

like...why wouldn't you just stomp on them and their horses?
 
DiipuSurotu

DiipuSurotu

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
53,148
They were huge hypocrites, complacent and liars. And they frequently turned a blind eye on slavery. It's because of them that the Sith took their revenge.
 
m_shortpants

m_shortpants

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Oct 25, 2017
11,675
Yes, bushido is cool in theory like chivalry but in practice most were dicks who took advantage of the peasants/serfs below them in the social order.
 
Noodle

Noodle

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Aug 22, 2018
3,427
Moonkid said:
No heroes in the valid scenario you've presented though, let's not risk romanticising Imperial Japan :p
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I take your point. In the context of the movie where the modernisers are depicted as top-hat wearing ultra-capitalists, in terms of who was "fighting for Japan's soul" they were the people who had a chance at saving the country.
 
GungHo

GungHo

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Nov 27, 2017
6,272
Not any more than knights, vikings, centurions, horsemen or other people that went around pillaging.
 
BizzyBum

BizzyBum

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Oct 26, 2017
9,264
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Something I've been wondering is where are all the bad ass Samurai / sword fighting movies in Hollywood? We're starting to get kick ass games like this, but you don't see any movies that are high budget with awesome fight choreography. Doesn't even have to be ancient warriors, give me some sweet sci-fi sword fighting like out of The Matrix or Metal Gear Rising.
 
Steel

Steel

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
18,220
War is romanticized in general. Knights were assholes, chivalry code only existed to reign in their assholery.
 
LProtagonist

LProtagonist

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
7,763
Europe has knights
Japan has samurai
America has cowboys
we all have our archetypal cultural heroes that basically fill the same role
 
Landford

Landford

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Oct 25, 2017
4,678
Yep, also, Katanas were absolutely rubbish swords because Japanese Iron was famously deficient. They were only made to cut flesh, anything more and they would dent and become useless.
 
Motorcycle Dork

Motorcycle Dork

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Jun 24, 2019
6,677
Yeah. Fiction portrays them as valiant but the reality is much grim. No different to knights, vikings, or any other soldier.
 
Conciliator

Conciliator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,190
For the most part, when we imagine Samurai or Ninjas, what we're actually thinking about is just a modern media mythos vaguely inspired by history. Don't confuse being a cool samurai warrior in a video game with actual history.
 
teruterubozu

teruterubozu

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
8,162
The ronin, or the wandering masterless samurai, is actually romanticized more than the traditional warrior samurai. The actual downfall of the samurai.
 
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