Just don't bother. People just want to pile on him and you know it.
Sen. Rand Paul - "I have immunity. I've already had the virus so I can't get it again..."
- Thread starter Am_I_Evil
- Start date
Just don't bother. People just want to pile on him and you know it.
I just want to point out to those saying that Re-infection isn't possible because of the South Korean study that this is absolutely the wrong conclusion. The study addresses the question that positive COVID-19 results from RT-PCR testing of patients recovered from COVID are due to fragments of COVID-19 viral RNA from the previous infection still in the system of recovered patients which when reinnoculated into cell culture does not produce viral particles. It does not definitively answer the question "Is reinfection possible?" Whether or not a recovered individual being re-innoculated with the virus leads to reinfection is beyond the scope of the study. From what we know about viruses. in general, the assumption currently is that if you have gotten it, you're most likely immune. But there are tons of other factors to consider, for example a patient might not build up a long term immune response (which can happen and does happen with vaccines) to potential mutation of the strain to a myriad of other things that can possibly occur, which is why the scientific and medical community is careful with their language. I also want to point out the living system is complex and to be careful of absolutes when dealing with the living system. There's a lot we know but there's a lot we don't know and even the established truths should be continually re-evaluated...It was not that long ago that DNA->RNA->Protein was an unquestionable truth in molecular biology.
This is another example of scientific reporting being a flawed piece of shit when communicating to the rest of the community.
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Except... theres a new illness that could be stemming from Covid affecting children... and we dont know why yet? Not such a normal virus...
I mean... Yeah, he's right.
Even those South Korean studies that were coming out were careful to call what they were seeing "reactivation" and not "reinfection". It's a safe bet that once immune, you can't get the virus again. How long that immunity lasts is still up for research.
Even those South Korean studies that were coming out were careful to call what they were seeing "reactivation" and not "reinfection". It's a safe bet that once immune, you can't get the virus again. How long that immunity lasts is still up for research.
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Kawasaki disease symptoms seen in some kids who had COVID-19
Many of the children, ages 2 to 15, have shown symptoms associated with toxic shock or Kawasaki disease, a rare illness in children that involves inflammation of the blood vessels.
www.chicagotribune.com
A finding in South Korea that cases of re-infection have not been proven is not equivalent to finding that re-infection is not possible. They're not the same at all.
Also, there is no knowing at this stage whether a "recovered" person is actually free of the virus. It could re-express as far as we know.
Also, there is no knowing at this stage whether a "recovered" person is actually free of the virus. It could re-express as far as we know.
But as far as we know, it has not happened yet. As far as we know, there's no reason to think this is unique with regard to reinfection compared to other coronaviruses.
The virus has been going through humanity for atleat 6 months now and infected more than 3.6 million if it could re-express we would have known by now
Yah, he didn't get singled out medically. The news outlets just used it as a headline. Many people with antibodies have been asked to donate blood.
"Previous infection does not confer immunity" would be the exceptional outcome, and the one that needs proving.
As it stands, we have more reason to believe otherwise.
There is potential that the antibodies don't last forever or that COVID mutates. However, we have no evidence of that yet. A lot of people here want to talk in certainties, but we don't have that. We have "to the best of our knowledge." statements. And currently, all the evidence points to the case that if you've recovered you are at least temporarily immune - to the best of our knowledge.
To my understanding this is contrary to the established science: the immunity gained from other coronavirus types is known to be short-lived in at least some cases.
Risk of Coronavirus Reinfection Remains After Recovery
New research by Columbia University Mailman School of Public Health experts finds that reinfections with endemic coronaviruses are not uncommon, even within a year of prior infection. The study on the four endemic coronaviruses—not including SARS-CoV-2, the virus that causes COVID-19—found that...
www.mailman.columbia.edu
On the contrary, based on what we know from other coronavirus types there is good reason to believe gained immunity may be temporary with regard to SARS-CoV2
Kawasaki disease symptoms seen in some kids who had COVID-19
Many of the children, ages 2 to 15, have shown symptoms associated with toxic shock or Kawasaki disease, a rare illness in children that involves inflammation of the blood vessels.
A completely unscientific source with no citations, and none of the quotes from medical personnel actually directly mention a link to coronavirus.
Here's a better source: https://www.rcpch.ac.uk/sites/defau...ltisystem- inflammatory syndrome-20200501.pdf
Which does state that:
Though there have only been a few dozen cases and testing is not 100% reliable.
And then despite all this, how versed are you in inflammation syndromes which affect people infected with any range of viruses? Do you have the expertise to verify that this is even outside of the norm? Do influenza, mumps etc perhaps elicit similarly rare responses in certain cases?
We have to analyse the information presented to us critically and rationally.
I think he's fine believing that if he's the only one at risk if he's wrong. But the masks are to protect his colleagues, so he should just put one on. Maybe they can invite his friendly old neighbor over to help talk some sense into him.
I hope they understand the difference between symptoms subsiding and being cured. Otherwise I would stop taking medical advice from them.
Wow! Very smart! Great! American ingenuity! I'll pray for him to continue to be so strong! Steak!
UK says some children have died from syndrome linked to COVID-19
Some children in the United Kingdom with no underlying health conditions have died from a rare inflammatory syndrome which researchers believe to be linked to COVID-19, Health Secretary Matt Hancock said on Tuesday.
Besides new strains (which are essentially new viruses) it would go against 99% viruses (including pretty much every coronavirus we know) and how our immune systems works if there wasn't immunity for a period of time.
The communication and fear mongering about this is quite extraordinary.
The CDC and WHO have been really bad about messaging this.
Sure, we will talk in a couple years when there is enough trustworthy data to be certain one way or another. This is a coronavirus, which does not behave akin to other more familiar viral subtypes, and others have been shown to stimulate transient rather than permanent immunity . Otherwise, don't be reckless, and don't risk your life based on assumptions. I'd say 'it's your life' but in this situation it's also everyone else's.
For reference, I work in a physician in the Midwest, and I just finished my first rotation in our Covid unit 3 weeks ago. We are absolutely not telling patients that have recovered that they have a 'immunity' pass, as there is far more unknown than what is known without adequate longitudinal data. They are instructed to self quarantine an additional 2 weeks regardless of symptom onset, maintain social distancing and wear a mask.
I like to think we are being overly cautious, but given how quickly policies have had to change and the prevalence of misinformation circulating, you can never be sure.
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It's not simply that. The risk of being wrong may be low given our current understanding, but there is significant consequence to his actions harming not only himself but also others around him if he is. Look if Dr. Fauci did the same, I would be just as critical.
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Rand Paul is a piece of shit, but he's probably right about this and recovered people being out and about are the least of our worries right now, in fact that's probably part of how we're going to be able to slowly re-open.
No-mask protesters, reopening too soon, and other idiots are a way way way way bigger issue
No-mask protesters, reopening too soon, and other idiots are a way way way way bigger issue
The thing I'd like to point out here, in everyone's arguing about the extent to which it's been proven about whether you can get sick from covid a second time, is this part:
This is patently untrue. Assuming that you do get covid immunity from having and recovering from the disease, you're still a potential vector for spreading the virus. It's not as bad as an asymptomatic spreader who doesn't have the antibodies, but you're not safe just because you had the virus before.
This is patently untrue. Assuming that you do get covid immunity from having and recovering from the disease, you're still a potential vector for spreading the virus. It's not as bad as an asymptomatic spreader who doesn't have the antibodies, but you're not safe just because you had the virus before.
Sigh...
Look guys, this virus and it's consequences are important worldwide. Most people just want to pay attention to the medical facts
What? Would you like to drink my blood and share in my immunity?
Jesus Christ people. That is not how any of this works. Influenza is constantly changing and most years there is a new flu strain, and a new vaccine required. If you have a particular flu strain, yes you are immune to that strain.
Partisan politics has broken people's brains to the points where some of ya'll are being obtuse about really basic science. Paul is a dickhead, but is probably right. Could he still wear a mask to set an example and show solidarity? Sure, but let's argue that point instead.
I mean Canada is right here ya know. Let me know when you're emigrating here 😄
Even if you are immune, you could still get that shit on your hands touching shit and then by touching more shit you're still spreading it around, right?
For instance, a politician shaking a lot of hands...
For instance, a politician shaking a lot of hands...
really didnt expect era to play host to a bunch of rand paul apologists when he's proven time and again to be a libertarian fucknut who does not give a shit whether people live or die. i'm not mad, i'm just disappointed
i don't give a fuck if you do or don't have or have had covid, you should probably be wearing a god damned mask until the public health authorities give the all clear. rand paul is fueling the anti mask protestors with his bullshit and you do not under any circumstances "gotta hand it to them"
i don't give a fuck if you do or don't have or have had covid, you should probably be wearing a god damned mask until the public health authorities give the all clear. rand paul is fueling the anti mask protestors with his bullshit and you do not under any circumstances "gotta hand it to them"
This is where I'm at. I fully feel that this may be a bitch eating crackers moment for some, but given that we're still in the middle of a pandemic and unsure of certain things, wearing a mask wouldn't fucking kill ya, Rand. Wouldn't hurt for our leaders to actually set some examples.
It would be required because you aren't discharging patients when they have tested negative twice in a row, you're discharging them when they are well enough to go home. You don't know if they are actually cured. And there are certainly virologists that are running the responses of countries telling patients they are immune. They simply are scared people would get infected on purpose if you give 'immunity passports'.
Idiot. You're making an ass of yourself for a snarky comment that is just idiotic.
In our HRRU we are testing them twice and determining they are no longer infectious / shedding, usually prior to discharge, as some patients have to be transferred to a different unit, or many ECF's require a negative test for the patient will be accepted at the time of discharge. That makes up the majority of the cases we are actually caring for in-house (anyone healthy enough to recover at home, usually isn't admitted). One of my patients remained positive after multiple tests (and receiving convalescent plasma) despite improving dramatically.
It's also my understanding that as a class, coronavirus immunity may not be lifelong. What I encourage you to take away, is that there is much we do not know about this novel strain, because it is so new. There is new information about how many factors affect mortality, recovery, complications and more daily (it literally fills my inbox, I don't think I've done this much ID since boards). It is too soon to make any assumptions about how much protection recovery can confer because you are literally putting your life and the lives of others on the line based on said assumption.
It is also clear, that some folks here are letting their anxiety guide the discussion, based on some of the responses. I don't know if it's the politics, fear, or a combination of the two.