Oct 25, 2017
4,176
A one time is shit, and the only one pushing something that simple are Republicans. It hasn't sunk in American life is going to change to at least until the end of Spring. I'm in favor of those proposing a three month plan, which we then look at when the time comes.

Ideally Jason Furman's approach is what we do...

- $2,000 per adult
- $1,000 per child
- Three month plan

A family of four, with the above plan, gets $6,000 a month. You can wiggle on the amount for adults and children, but I think it being locked in place for three months is the minimum of what we have to do here.
There is no reason why a family of four whose income earners have not been affected needs an additional $6k/mo, those funds would be better used for other response strategies. That's why I would tie the benefits to income displacement (whether through effective job loss or some other disruption.)
 

sangreal

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,890
There is no reason why a family of four whose income earners have not been affected needs an additional $6k/mo, those funds would be better used for other response strategies. That's why I would tie the benefits to income displacement (whether through effective job loss or some other disruption.)

There is a reason if you are not interested in mere survival and want to jump start the economy which was artificially shutdown for a several months. As someone whose income hasn't been impacted, I can tell you I am hanging onto every penny that I can

Furman was Obama's chief economic adviser for his 2nd term. He isn't an idiot. I recognize that is an appeal to authority, but my point isn't that this makes it right but rather his ideas shouldn't be rejected out of hand
 

nexus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,692
Definitely needs to be monthly at least 3 months, I work in my family's small business so idk what is going to happen. It's a "non essential" business so even if we are open it's going to be insanely slow. 1000 will pay my basic necessities for the most part. I'm super fortunate that my girlfriend still receives her paycheck so she can cover our main bills with a very small amount left over. That 1000 would be spent on her end though if I end up ok ish which is what the economy needs.

It's hard because you don't want to spend money but that's exactly what we should be doing.
 

Jakenbakin

"This guy are sick" and Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Jun 17, 2018
12,132
There is a reason if you are not interested in mere survival and want to jump start the economy which was artificially shutdown for a several months. As someone whose income hasn't been impacted, I can tell you I am hanging onto every penny that I can

Furman was Obama's chief economic adviser for his 2nd term. He isn't an idiot. I recognize that is an appeal to authority, but my point isn't that this makes it right but rather his ideas shouldn't be rejected out of hand
What makes people think Americans wouldn't just hoard as much of that income as possible as well? I'm not criticizing by the way, I'm just asking. My parents and I were just discussing this and I'm not certain people would go out to spend that money in brick and mortar stores, at the very least. Have their been any studies on UBI spending? I think they recently tested in a limited form in Canada, right? My own thoughts are mostly informed by my own frugality and lack of spending habits, too.
 

TAJ

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
12,446
What makes people think Americans wouldn't just hoard as much of that income as possible as well? I'm not criticizing by the way, I'm just asking. My parents and I were just discussing this and I'm not certain people would go out to spend that money in brick and mortar stores, at the very least. Have their been any studies on UBI spending? I think they recently tested in a limited form in Canada, right? My own thoughts are mostly informed by my own frugality and lack of spending habits, too.

The US has sent everyone stimulus checks before. The data is out there.
Spoiler: Joe Six-pack did NOT hoard it.
 

Deepwater

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,349
There is no reason why a family of four whose income earners have not been affected needs an additional $6k/mo, those funds would be better used for other response strategies. That's why I would tie the benefits to income displacement (whether through effective job loss or some other disruption.)
Forcing people who are out of work to prove they are out of work is more costly than just writing everybody a check, straight up.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,176
Forcing people who are out of work to prove they are out of work is more costly than just writing everybody a check, straight up.
I didn't go in to too much depth because this is just the off-the-cuff impressions of me, a random idiot on the internet, but my plan - such as it is - would loosen up unemployment quite a bit, both on the qualification side and the income replacement side (much closer to a 1-for-1 match if not a complete income replacement.)
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,209
What makes people think Americans wouldn't just hoard as much of that income as possible as well? I'm not criticizing by the way, I'm just asking. My parents and I were just discussing this and I'm not certain people would go out to spend that money in brick and mortar stores, at the very least. Have their been any studies on UBI spending? I think they recently tested in a limited form in Canada, right? My own thoughts are mostly informed by my own frugality and lack of spending habits, too.
Middle and lower income families don't hoard. They actually put the money given to them, either through tax cuts or a UBI in this case, back into the economy.

www.theguardian.com

Economic growth more likely when wealth distributed to poor instead of rich

The economic case for maintaining a progressive income tax structure and targeting welfare payments to those most in need is overwhelming

Home

OECD's dissemination platform for all published content - books, podcasts, serials and statistics
 

Opto

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,546
What makes people think Americans wouldn't just hoard as much of that income as possible as well? I'm not criticizing by the way, I'm just asking. My parents and I were just discussing this and I'm not certain people would go out to spend that money in brick and mortar stores, at the very least. Have their been any studies on UBI spending? I think they recently tested in a limited form in Canada, right? My own thoughts are mostly informed by my own frugality and lack of spending habits, too.
A bunch of people are hourly so this won't be supplemental for them, it'll be absolutely necessary income to put food on the table and pay bills. People who'd hoard it wouldn't need it per se, but a means tested program would delay the deployment and create rejections on some vulnerable people due to clerical error etc
 

Biske

Member
Nov 11, 2017
8,322
Will be interested to see where this goes.

Obviously its crucially needed or many peoples lives are just going to crater. Just got an email that Regal theaters is closing until further notice. Which is great, lets all stay in, be safe but if you work at such a place? You are fucked. So government gotta step in, if only in the perverse interest of business still being able to have consumers. Otherwise everyone goes broke, buys nothing, businesses go broke.
 

Foffy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,496
There is a reason if you are not interested in mere survival and want to jump start the economy which was artificially shutdown for a several months. As someone whose income hasn't been impacted, I can tell you I am hanging onto every penny that I can

Furman was Obama's chief economic adviser for his 2nd term. He isn't an idiot. I recognize that is an appeal to authority, but my point isn't that this makes it right but rather his ideas shouldn't be rejected out of hand

To add to this, Furman has been an opponent of UBI. And yet he's saying we gotta do something like a UBI here.

The moment I saw him in the news talking about this a week or so ago, I knew we were in deep, deep shit economically.
 

Lastbroadcast

Member
Jul 6, 2018
1,938
Sydney, Australia
That's actually an incredibly good idea. Australia did almost exactly that during the GFC in 2009 - everyone got given $AU900 by the Rudd Labor government, quite literally straight into our bank accounts.

The fact it was a lump sum payment, rather than a tax cut that would filter more slowly, meant that money was in the economy immediately. People either used it to pay off their credit cards or they went out and bought something big. It worked and we avoided a recession.
 

Castamere

Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,517
1k per month for as long as needed, per adult, no taxes, plus whatever job or unemployment you get would be fine.

Lower and middle income families don't hoard, because they can't afford everything they want and need.
 

Barzul

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,965
That's actually an incredibly good idea. Australia did almost exactly that during the GFC in 2009 - everyone got given $AU900 by the Rudd Labor government, quite literally straight into our bank accounts.

The fact it was a lump sum payment, rather than a tax cut that would filter more slowly, meant that money was in the economy immediately. People either used it to pay off their credit cards or they went out and bought something big. It worked and we avoided a recession.
I'm certain we'll probably see something like this soon. This feels like it could be worse than 2009 and we just don't know it yet.
 

SlasherMcGirk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,748
Cincinnati
If I got a free 1000 dollar check, I'm gonna be honest, it's going straight to bills. Preferably to my credit card. I wouldn't be putting it back into the economy.
 

Deleted member 3017

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
17,653
I feel the chances of this happening are close to 100 percent. There's a good chance millions of Americans are about to temporarily lose their jobs or become underemployed within the next week or two.

It needs to be $1000 per month for at least three months though.
 

Futureman

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,473
If I got a free 1000 dollar check, I'm gonna be honest, it's going straight to bills. Preferably to my credit card. I wouldn't be putting it back into the economy.

As long as you aren't investing it or putting it in a savings account I think that's exactly what they want. You pay they bills then you still have money to buy groceries, medicine, clothes, etc.
 

YaBish

Unshakable Resolve - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,437
If I got a free 1000 dollar check, I'm gonna be honest, it's going straight to bills. Preferably to my credit card. I wouldn't be putting it back into the economy.
Yup, same here. There's no way I'm spending that on anything other than essentials in the interim.
 

NESpowerhouse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,791
Virginia
Will be interested to see where this goes.

Obviously its crucially needed or many peoples lives are just going to crater. Just got an email that Regal theaters is closing until further notice. Which is great, lets all stay in, be safe but if you work at such a place? You are fucked. So government gotta step in, if only in the perverse interest of business still being able to have consumers. Otherwise everyone goes broke, buys nothing, businesses go broke.
Yeah, my brother who's been working at a Regal for a few years just got laid off today. He's still living with my parents, one of which already works from home booking corporate flights, but my dad, who works at a Lexus dealership, got ordered to stay home since that was closing down as well. His pay got slashed heavily down to about 1/3 of what he would normally be making. My family will definitely be hurting now.
 

Biske

Member
Nov 11, 2017
8,322
Yeah, my brother who's been working at a Regal for a few years just got laid off today. He's still living with my parents, one of which already works from home booking corporate flights, but my dad, who works at a Lexus dealership, got ordered to stay home since that was closing down as well. His pay got slashed heavily down to about 1/3 of what he would normally be making. My family will definitely be hurting now.

It's just fucking staggering how little our government has planned for any of this kind of shit. I hope people are taken care of and I hope we learn from this and demand an actual fucking safety net. Losing your job shouldn't mean losing your life.
 

ZackieChan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,056
A one time is shit, and the only one pushing something that simple are Republicans. It hasn't sunk in American life is going to change to at least until the end of Spring. I'm in favor of those proposing a three month plan, which we then look at when the time comes.

Ideally Jason Furman's approach is what we do...

- $2,000 per adult
- $1,000 per child
- Three month plan

A family of four, with the above plan, gets $6,000 a month. You can wiggle on the amount for adults and children, but I think it being locked in place for three months is the minimum of what we have to do here.
This sounds good to me. I'd buy some discounted stocks and make even more with it.
Though I live abroad - would I still receive something like this? We expats need dat stimulus too!
 

Greendomo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
484
A one time is shit, and the only one pushing something that simple are Republicans. It hasn't sunk in American life is going to change to at least until the end of Spring. I'm in favor of those proposing a three month plan, which we then look at when the time comes.

Ideally Jason Furman's approach is what we do...

- $2,000 per adult
- $1,000 per child
- Three month plan

A family of four, with the above plan, gets $6,000 a month. You can wiggle on the amount for adults and children, but I think it being locked in place for three months is the minimum of what we have to do here.
This would be huge for me as $1000 per person for me and my wife wouldn't even cover our rent here in LA. I'm a freelance worker in the film/tv industry with 4 kids so if production doesn't pick up for 2-3 months I'm screwed. I hope this plan happens.
 

Buttzerker

Powerhouse Protector / Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,017
But then where will we get the 1.5 trillion to inject into the stock market


HoW WiLl We PaY
 

night814

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,120
Pennsylvania
This sounds good to me. I'd buy some discounted stocks and make even more with it.
Though I live abroad - would I still receive something like this? We expats need dat stimulus too!
I was looking the other day myself through all the downturn going on and was definitely seeing some nice options myself. If they gave me and my wife 1k a piece I would consider doing the same.
 

Fall Damage

Member
Oct 31, 2017
2,134
I think some form of stimulus payment will happen. I imagine Trump will actually be pushing for it since it's not only likely to help the economy but it will be extremely popular with voters across the board. Seems like a good political move which I'm sure is where his motives lie.
 

night814

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,120
Pennsylvania
I think some form of stimulus payment will happen. I imagine Trump will actually be pushing for it since it's not only likely to help the economy but it will be extremely popular with voters across the board. Seems like a good political move which I'm sure is where his motives lie.
All someone has to do is convince him that it is and it will atleast be pushed by him
 

Fulminator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,232
damn if i got this i can't decide if i would want to save it or use it to buy something...

guess i can only make that decision if it happens lol
 

PHOENIXZERO

Member
Oct 29, 2017
12,374
Seeing as my hours have been cut to the point where I'm not even going to average a hundred bucks a week for my next three paychecks... I'll take it because... fuck.
 

MegaBeefBowl

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,890
It isn't monthly, so I actually see it happening.

Trump could spite kill it because it's fucking Romney but realistically the economy is everything to his re-election and this stimulus would be tangible to the American electorate. The average voter doesn't feel a fucking tickle about 2 trillion going into Wall St. Brand it as the Trump Worker's Stimulus and I could see it being ironically popular among Republicans.
 

grand

Member
Oct 25, 2017
25,776
It's AOC/Yang's proposal but rich people get it too (and instead it's only 1 month). That's the most Romney solution ever lol