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Shōgun |OT| An Epic Saga Of War, Passion And Power Set In Feudal Japan

fulltimepanda

fulltimepanda

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,811
i think the only gripe I have with this ep is how the escalation occurred but it probably speaks to Ishido's hastiness. 'capture mariko at all costs' somehow getting to 'blowing up the doors to a storehouse' feels pretty thin and feels like there could have been a few steps inbetween.

The scene with blackthorne drawing a line in a sand was a bit on the nose but a super nice touch I think. They dwelled on it for the right amount of time and the way blackthorne brings it with him in following scenes is perfect.
 
Primal Sage

Primal Sage

Virtually Real
Member
Nov 27, 2017
9,802
Skade said:
Probably something akin to that :
DmVPPufU0AIu8mM.jpg


But in a more refined and subdued way. :p
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I got you covered.

keikaku.jpg
 
harleyvwarren

harleyvwarren

Member
Oct 31, 2022
3,786
Illinois
On that Buntaro note, sort of...

Mariko's interaction with their son made me sad. Kid grew up fast, and they (Catholic Regent) poisoned him against her. I hadn't thought we'd ever see the kid again.
 
EroticSushi

EroticSushi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,990
Does we know how much time has passed since episode 1?

Also can someone clear up why Mariko
dying would matter to everyone in Osaka? Why does Ishido care if she killed herself?
 
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BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,051
I haven't read the book, but I thought the "leafless branch" was a clear dig at Lady Ochiba or am I reading that wrong?


m_shortpants said:
Damn. What a doozy. Give her all the awards.

It took me this long, but I finally realized just now much Toranaga

311340_20200503085314_1.jpg


Dude is the villain of this show. Like holy crap.
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I been saying this though.
 
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EzekelRAGE

EzekelRAGE

Member
Nov 3, 2017
16,218
Lotus said:
It (of course) prevents her and the ladies from leaving while still giving Ishido baaaarely enough plausible deniability to not be accused of killing her, while also giving him yet another excuse to keep everyone captive under the guise of security and safety. And even if you don't buy into his BS, all that means is you're left thinking that if he can kill Mariko and the others in the dead of night, he could do it to you too...

From his perspective, he's truly in a lose lose situation before the assassination attempt anyhow, so there's a bit of desperation on his part where I can see how he thought this was a good idea
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Im sure Ishido about to be like. "It's such a shame what happened to Mariko right after I granted her permit. Anyway does anyone want to take back their permit request before I grant them?"
grin-evil.gif
 
kyle mechlachlan

kyle mechlachlan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,307
Am I off base on this? RE: Ochiba/Toranaga

That her son isn't actually the son of the Taiko and is actually Toranagas son?

Pure speculation
 
JasoNsider

JasoNsider

Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,156
Canada
She's not surviving, right? There is no way.

But this episode was amazing. Cinematography, performances, writing. All incredible.
 
EzekelRAGE

EzekelRAGE

Member
Nov 3, 2017
16,218
If yall like this, I recommend watching Three Kingdoms after the series finale. Great series, Shogun reminds me a lot of it with all the political intrigue and stuff.
It's basically Shogun but based on Chinese history and how China was unified. Has great characters, writing, and battles. Almost 100 episodes.
Entire series is available on youtube.

View: https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL33A390995E9A7F00&si=r-VWOQVaUkOkvX06
 
Tuorom

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,929
Blackthorne stepping up to be the 2nd was strangely romantic as hell

and the touch afterwards whew lord
 
Lotus

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
106,052
Tuorom said:
Blackthorne stepping up to be the 2nd was strangely romantic as hell

and the touch afterwards whew lord
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I love the contrast between him and Buntaro. He absolutely doesn't want her to die, but can still find it within him to respect her decision and aid her despite immensely struggling with the cultural differences between them.

EzekelRAGE said:
Im sure Ishido about to be like. "It's such a shame what happened to Mariko right after I granted her permit. Anyway does anyone want to take back their permit request before I grant them?"
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Lmao exactly
 
EzekelRAGE

EzekelRAGE

Member
Nov 3, 2017
16,218
kyle mechlachlan said:
Am I off base on this? RE: Ochiba/Toranaga

That her son isn't actually the son of the Taiko and is actually Toranagas son?

Pure speculation
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Idk about it being Toranaga but I suspect she slept with someone else to get pregnant. Least that's what I gathered from her "I made fate look at me and clawed her eyes out" speech she gave to Ishido.
 
Tuorom

Tuorom

Member
Oct 30, 2017
10,929
Lotus said:
I love the contrast between him and Buntaro. He absolutely doesn't want her to die, but can still find it within him to respect her decision and aid her despite immensely struggling with the cultural differences between them.
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Yes, it's a great contrast to the earlier tea house scene.

I was thinking that scene of the line in the sand was depicting the one similarity they seemed to have which was the cross (vertical line among a bunch of horizontal ones). Despite him going in a 'different direction' than everyone else there is still that commonality of God, and with that he would spare her the damnation if he could.
 
Sean C.

Sean C.

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,758
Charlottetown, Prince Edward Island
There were a lot of comparisons to Game of Thrones in reviews of this series. These recent episodes reminded me of a big reason why the politicking on GOT was so terrible as the show went on: basically nobody on that show pretended to care about anything, and supposed social taboos or diplomatic niceties were basically only there to be violated for the purpose of a gag, so every scene is just whoever has the most raw power rubbing it in the faces of everyone else in the scene. The whole Mariko plot in this episode would have been impossible because the second she started talking back to Ishido he would just openly kill her and everybody would be totally cool with it.
 
Katbobo

Katbobo

Member
May 3, 2022
5,409
Oh my god what an episode.

Big fan of the sound of those blunderbuss(?) guns John was using in the battle scene. Goddamn those pack a wallop.
 
VeryHighlander

VeryHighlander

The Fallen
May 9, 2018
6,397
This episode was amazing. Anjin stepping up to be the second was heartbreaking yet beautiful. But the highlight of the episode for me was Mariko attempting to leave Osaka. That entire scene was gripping and intense. Anna Sawai absolutely kills it in this show.
 
WhySoDevious

WhySoDevious

Member
Oct 31, 2017
8,466
It's been decades since I read the book, so it's all new to me once more... and I'm glad cause this show is brilliant and every episode had me waiting for the next.
 
BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,051
Sean C. said:
There were a lot of comparisons to Game of Thrones in reviews of this series. These recent episodes reminded me of a big reason why the politicking on GOT was so terrible as the show went on: basically nobody on that show pretended to care about anything, and supposed social taboos or diplomatic niceties were basically only there to be violated for the purpose of a gag, so every scene is just whoever has the most raw power rubbing it in the faces of everyone else in the scene. The whole Mariko plot in this episode would have been impossible because the second she started talking back to Ishido he would just openly kill her and everybody would be totally cool with it.
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Among all the hilarious stupidity of the later seasons, I love laughing at Brienne in the last season when everyone laughs at her for being a virgin. The writers kinda forgot it was a medieval fantasy show. She is the MAIDEN of Tarth. She's supposed to be a virgin. If she were not and unmarried she'd be deemed a harlot and further lambasted and shunned. No man would laugh at the fact that she is a virgin.

But the writers forgot and wrote if all the characters were modern characters.
 
grmltr

grmltr

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,752
I'm curious to know how Toranaga will deal with his brother's army... Isn't he still essentially captive at this point?
 
GS_Dan

GS_Dan

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,985
Praxis said:
Another amazing episode.


Anybody else have issues with Disney Plus and their shitty subs not showing occasionally? Is it because I'm using the built in app on my LG CX? Bloody annoying.
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Greatestjediever said:
Yup same for me. Rewinding (10 sec back) allowed the subs to come back up properly.

What a series this has been.
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Chiaroscuro said:
It happens to me too and I am on Samsung (and D+ app is pretty shit overall on it).
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I had the same on the LG app on my B8. Got annoyed enough to try it on my Google TV 4K which I barely use, and the subtitles have been flawless. The stream is more stable too, seems to stick to the highest quality much more. If you have any similar device available if recommend trying it over the built in TV apps.
 
m_shortpants

m_shortpants

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,270
BossAttack said:
Among all the hilarious stupidity of the later seasons, I love laughing at Brienne in the last season when everyone laughs at her for being a virgin. The writers kinda forgot it was a medieval fantasy show. She is the MAIDEN of Tarth. She's supposed to be a virgin. If she were not and unmarried she'd be deemed a harlot and further lambasted and shunned. No man would laugh at the fact that she is a virgin.

But the writers forgot and wrote if all the characters were modern characters.
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Good thing she got to bang the hottest knight in all the realm, before he promptly left to go die with the woman he hated the most for no reason, throwing his entire character arc into the dumpster.

They really didn't think much when writing those last few seasons did they?
 

RandomError

Member
Oct 27, 2017
216
AdamE said:
Will they show Sekigahara? Feels like there won't be enough time for all that..
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It happens "off-screen" between the final chapter and epilogue of the novel, so I doubt it will be depicted directly - just the aftermath. I'd love to be wrong though!
 
Nere

Nere

Member
Dec 8, 2017
2,156
m_shortpants said:
Good thing she got to bang the hottest knight in all the realm, before he promptly left to go die with the woman he hated the most for no reason, throwing his entire character arc into the dumpster.

They really didn't think much when writing those last few seasons did they?
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Do we have to be reminded of that atrocity? It still pisses me off to this day, as Jamie was my favourite character. 8 seasons of character redemption arc, of him realizing what a piece of shit and toxic trash Cercei was, only for him to do an 180 on the final episodes and end right when he started. That's why I don't recommend to anyone to see GoT, why waste 80 hours of your life when nothing matters?
 
Thalanil

Thalanil

Member
Aug 24, 2023
900
From someone that is interested to watch it but haven't jumped in yet how historically accurate/plausible is the show? I know from looking around that Yoshii Toranaga is inspired by Tokugawa Ieyasu so despite the characters having different names/some being created for the show does it follows somewhat the historical events of the Tokugawa rise to power or is the story of the show/book more of his own thing?
 
danm999

danm999

Member
Oct 29, 2017
17,153
Sydney
Torinaga is really a cold bastard

I guess Mariko kind of wanted it this way, but still

grmltr said:
I'm curious to know how Toranaga will deal with his brother's army... Isn't he still essentially captive at this point?
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I think the crux of his plan is that half the lords/daimyo in Japan are gonna be pissed and revolt against Ishido now, Torinaga put him in a no win situation to basically lose the entire country's support
 
Primal Sage

Primal Sage

Virtually Real
Member
Nov 27, 2017
9,802
Thalanil said:
From someone that is interested to watch it but haven't jumped in yet how historically accurate/plausible is the show? I know from looking around that Yoshii Toranaga is inspired by Tokugawa Ieyasu so despite the characters having different names/some being created for the show does it follows somewhat the historical events of the Tokugawa rise to power or is the story of the show/book more of his own thing?
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It's loosely based on real events. So there are plenty of original plotpoints but the bigger brushstrokes in the conflict are based on historical events.
 
AdamE

AdamE

3D Character Artist
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
1,050
Japan
RandomError said:
It happens "off-screen" between the final chapter and epilogue of the novel, so I doubt it will be depicted directly - just the aftermath. I'd love to be wrong though!
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Ahhh. In their recent BTS vid on the VFX there are some shots of them preparing to battle with Toranaga and Ishido in battle armour. I don't need a whole ass ep dedicated to it, but i'm hoping we get something from it.
 
Aiqops

Aiqops

Member
Aug 3, 2021
13,968
Tuorom said:
Blackthorne stepping up to be the 2nd was strangely romantic as hell

and the touch afterwards whew lord
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And as I just heard on a podcast, in the book it is Yabushige who steps in as second once Kiyama doesn't show up to do it.

Holy shit is the adaptive choice of it being Blackthorne so much better. Yabu doing it would have meant nothing to us.
 
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