Should a Metroid Prime 2: Echoes remaster/remake get rid of beam ammo?

[Weegian]

Hey, ERA. Remember us?

Light Beam ammo and Dark Beam ammo. Two splotches of imperfection on what is otherwise the best Metroid Prime game.

Spoiler

Don't fight me on this. It's the truth.

For the uninitiated: In Metroid Prime 2: Echoes, the Light Beam, Dark Beam, and Annihilator Beam use ammo. These appear as drops from enemies and crates, like missile and health pickups. Killing an enemy with one beam increases the chance of it dropping ammo for the opposite beam. The Annihilator Beam uses one unit of Light and Dark ammo. If you run out of ammo, you have to charge the beams to fire the beam.

This adds an element of ammo management to the game, but in reality you end up using the Power Beam for much of the game and only using the other beams when you really need to.

A remaster of Echoes would probably just be a graphical overhaul, but if you could choose, would you get rid of beam ammo?

 

[Lukar]

I think the best option would probably be to just make it an option. Maybe keep ammo on by default since that's how the game was originally designed, but include a setting in the menu for making it so you have unlimited ammo if you want it to work like the rest of the series.

 

[Soapbox Killer]

Nope

 

[AuthenticM]

I liked that killing enemies with one ammo type gave you ammo for the other type.

 

[Seda]

just leave it

 

[RochHoch]

The Annihilator beam is too powerful to not have ammo

Just leave it the way it is

 

[Berordn]

they would probably leave it intact, but they should ditch it. it does little for combat because every boss ends up having something for you to kill just to get more ammo. just be done with it and streamline that aspect.

 

[Sketchsanchez]

Everything retro added to the series after prime 1 makes the games worse (see:this ammo), just reinforces for me that the reason prime 1 is goated is because it's essentially 3D Super Metroid.

 

[ClickyCal']

Absolutely no. It's in the DNA of the game and part of why I love it.

 

[Teenage Fansub]

I liked that killing enemies with one ammo type gave you ammo for the other type.

Click to shrink...

Was MP2 influenced by Ikaruga?

 

[The Deleter]

Dark World draining your health/recovering in light was the more annoying mechanic imo

Well that and the key system for the bosses

Leave it; Prime 2 is Prime 2 no matter which way you slice it

 

[Weiss]

Ammo good.

Ammo stays.

 

[Kalor]

It's more interesting to keep those design wrinkles that Prime 2 had. Rather than sanding down the edges and not really replacing it with anything.

 

[Merc_]

It'll stay. I don't see them making any change that major to a remaster.

 

[Servbot24]

Main thing MP2 needs is an SSD for instant loading of light and dark worlds.

 

[Shoe]

Of course not, it's extremely easy to refill on ammo and if you didn't have it, you'd be way too OP

 

[Doskoi Panda]

Hell na. It's a big part of the game's identity.

I don't even think that a remaster should neglect to include Metroid Prime 2's weird little multiplayer suite. So I sure as hell don't want them messing with the ammo system.

 

[zma1013]

No, don't change the gameplay. Leave it as is.

 

[moustascheman]

Just make it so that the power beam can drop ammo for both beams. That's honestly the main issue with the system since you essentially have to waste ammo to get back the other ammo type.

It'll make it so that there's a limit to using your other beams while also encouraging you to use them and making it so you never feel like you're wasting ammo.

 

[MayorSquirtle]

Dark World draining your health/recovering in light was the more annoying mechanic imo

Well that and the key system for the bosses

Leave it; Prime 2 is Prime 2 no matter which way you slice it

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I don't remember every really having an issue with ammo management in 2, but the "poison" mechanic in the dark world between those safe domes sucked. It's too important a mechanic to change, but it was just more irritating to me than anything.

 

[Poltergust]

Once you get the first ammo expansions ammo basically becomes a non-issue.

Speaking of which, what do you suggest would replace the ammo expansions in the game should ammo no longer be a thing, OP? Just more missile expansions? That sounds boring.

 

[Doskoi Panda]

Main thing MP2 needs is an SSD for instant loading of light and dark worlds.

Click to shrink...

We're already there with flash memory (which is good enough for these previously-Gamecube games), MPR hasn't stopped me at a door once yet on Switch.

 

[GreenMamba]

No, just leave the gameplay alone. Remasters/graphical remakes should not be trying to "fix" the underlying game, even if it wasn't necessarily good to begin with.

 

[RoboPlato]

Didn't they already make some changes to the Trilogy release of the game? I imagine those would carry over

 

[entremet]

Main thing MP2 needs is an SSD for instant loading of light and dark worlds.

Click to shrink...

?

Switch uses flash memory.

 

[giapel]

I wouldn't necessarily want another Metroid with that mechanic but Prime 2 is its own thing so wouldn't want to lose part of its identity. Keep it faithful.

 

[Aeana]

It's so trivial I don't think it would matter either way.

 

[Jakisthe]

Make ammo pickups restore 10, 20, and 40 apiece and have the starting amount set at 75.

 

[Digital Dinosaur]

Leave it in. For better or worse the entire experience was tuned around ammo drop rates. Removing them entirely would either throw the whole thing off, or require a lot of rebalancing. Which would in turn throw the experience off.

 

[Wreckord Collection]

Beam ammo is not the reason this game isn't that fun compared to others in the series.

Hint: This is a series about exploration. What are the mechanics in Metroid Prime 2 that actively encourage/discourage exploration?

 

[Instro]

It's such a trivial thing I don't know why you would remove it. Just adds another risk vs reward layer to the exploration.

 

[russbus64]

Team no ammo. So little of it is available and the normal beam tickles enemies.

 

[oatmeal]

I said no ammo, but don't care. Just make the game

 

[kohlmannj]

Didn't they already make some changes to the Trilogy release of the game? I imagine those would carry over

Click to shrink...

Metroid Prime Trilogy made some much needed balancing tweaks to some bosses in Prime 2 (*cough* Boost Guardian). Metroid Prime Remastered is based on the Trilogy release, so it's safe to assume we'd get those same tweaks. Doubt we'd get any changes to ammo system. Power Beam ammo drops might help, as moustascheman suggested above, but if I were on the team at Retro, I wouldn't want to touch this.

 

[Jaymageck]

I'd rather we don't just pull out pieces of game design that were central to how the whole game was built.

 

[Dupr Dog]

Ammo management in a Metroid game?

no thanks

 

[steviestar3]

Main thing MP2 needs is an SSD for instant loading of light and dark worlds.

Click to shrink...

Yes

Every other suggested change is dumb

 

[astro]

Honestly, I'm playing Prime for the first time now and this wounds really good. Will add a slight layer of difficulty that the game could use.

 

[Berordn]

Ammo management in a Metroid game?

no thanks

Click to shrink...

it's always existed in some form thanks to missiles, power bombs and occasionally super missiles, and that rarely rubs up against people the way that prime 2's beam ammo did

i think part of it is how important attacking enemies with the correct beams are that makes it feel terrible, your power beam is just a pea shooter by comparison if you're trying to kill a dark enemy without the light beam

 

[Canas Renvall]

?

Switch uses flash memory.

Click to shrink...

Flash memory and SSD are not the same thing.

On topic, keep the ammo. Annihilator Beam is wickedly OP instead of just regular OP if there's unlimited ammo.

 

[senj]

should they break the balance of the game by removing a fundamental mechanic that wasn't really ever a problem anyway?

nah

 

[Spliced-Up]

I'm a weirdo that actually likes Prime 2 the most. I honestly wouldn't change a thing about it. Things like the ammo and health draining add friction to the game that add strategy in how you approach combat and plan your routes through the world. I understand why some people are turned off by them though. Ideally there would be an accessibility option for both.

 

[HylianSeven]

Leave it, it was part of the game's balance.

Ammo management in a Metroid game?

no thanks

Click to shrink...

Missiles? Super Missiles? Power Bombs? Aeion?

 

[SanTheSly]

I'd personally prefer them to just remove the light world/dark world entirely along with the ammo. I effectively would just prefer MP2 to be a very different game, instead of one I almost really like but find very frustrating.

I would settle for a menu toggle though, might make it a bit less frustrating.

 

[KarmaCow]

They made it so trivial to get ammo that might as well go all the way and make it unlimited. We already know what going the other way, making ammo more scarce would do by the perception that it's better to use the power beam to tickle enemies instead of cycling between Light and Dark beams.

 

[slothrop]

They should keep the have exactly the same whether people like it or not. Just like Prime 1.

 

[AncientReptileBrain]

what?! no

 

[EllipsisBreak]

This adds an element of ammo management to the game, but in reality you end up using the Power Beam for much of the game and only using the other beams when you really need to.

Click to shrink...

Beam ammo isn't the problem. This mindset is.

You get lots of dark ammo by using the light beam, and you get lots of light ammo by using the dark beam. So it should be obvious that you're supposed to fire both of them a lot, rather than picking one favorite. You can use both beams with impunity, as long as you use both.

But, as always, there are a lot of players who see any kind of limit on a resource and always immediately decide that they're supposed to never use it.

 

[TheCongressman]

It could be tweaked, but I don't think getting rid of it would be a great idea.

Easy change, ammo could be dropped by power beam.

Or you could have ammo recharge automatically over time. When you use power beam it charges both, but slower. Use dark or light, and it charges the other beam faster.

 

[TheSpaceBetween]

They can do a "Casual" mode like they did for Prime R. Keep it for normal and hard modes though.