Should SFVI start from scratch (like previous SF games) or reuse SFV assets for a larger roster?

[Neoxon]

This thread spawned out of the discussion about the size of the launch roster in another SFV thread that's ongoing (or at least it was at the time of this thread's creation). Obviously SFV is gonna keep getting support until the end of 2020, that much we know. But after that, they'll probably move on to SFVI (or even start planning for SFVI during SFV S5). But at the same time, there's another thing to consider. Each numbered Street Fighter game usually starts from scratch for the roster. While this results in improved quality amongst the characters across the board (see SFIV to SFV for the characters in both games, for example), this also results in a smaller launch roster. On the flip side, games like Injustice 2, Tekken 7, Smash 4, & MvCI reused assets from previous entries to achieve larger rosters (though in the case of T7's original arcade release & MvCI, they still didn't start out with a large roster initially). And as a number of people here pointed out, most of SFV's animations are amongst the best in the genre, so Capcom could in theory get away with reusing the animations for the SFV veterans given how high quality 99% of the animations are in SFV.

So my question to you ResetEra is this. Should Street Fighter VI start from scratch for its roster like previous numbered SF games (resulting in a smaller launch roster), or should it borrow assets from SFV to achieve a larger roster at launch. Obviously this won't be a major issue until at least 2022, but I'm curious to get people's opinions on the topic.

 

[Zukkoyaki]

This is a damned if they do, damned if they don't scenario. We all saw how people reacted to a lot of reused assets in MvCI.

I'd choose all new characters, personally.

 

[Al3x1s]

Sequel should be from scratch in everything. If it's gonna be the same asset wise, why not just support SFV with more DLC and what not? If they wanna do radically different gameplay so it's no longer viable as DLC, then it could be a spin off series a la Alpha which could also warrant a wholly different art style instead. I doubt a SFVI will be a this-gen game anyway so new assets are in order even with the same art style, though I hope for new.

 

[entremet]

Start from scratch. New SF always meant new art assets, outside of the Alpha series that is.

 

[dezzyeight]

They need to holla at Arc Systems for the sprites because SF4 and 5 looks fucking hideous.

 

[Neoxon]

Sequel should be from scratch in everything. If it's gonna be the exact same asset wise, why not just keep supporting SFV instead with DLC and what not? If they wanna do radically different gameplay so it's no longer viable as DLC, then it could be a spin off series a la Alpha which could also warrant a wholly different art style instead.

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I can see where you're coming from, & I honestly share your opinion. But on the flip side, there are others who believe that sequels should have larger rosters than their predecessors. Smash in particular is gonna have a tough road coming off of Smash Wii U/3DS's 58-character roster in terms of choosing between reusing Smash Wii U/3DS's assets or starting from scratch for a full-on sequel.

 

[Dreamboum]

Why wouldn't they ? The assets are fine, it's the usage of the assets that is lacking. It's not really about getting away with it, they have a huge history of doing so anyway. Morrigan's sprite has been used for pretty much 10 years as is. No need to change what's good, just change what's not.

They need to holla at Arc Systems for the sprites because SF4 and 5 looks fucking hideous.

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SF5 holds its own perfectly well, I don't see how ASW's expertise is going to help them. Not even remotely the same style or the same approach.

 

[Arsic]

I'm indifferent . Whatever works to get a better game than 5.

 

[Sectorseven]

Too early to say.

I feel exhausted just hearing about a franchise with "VI" at the end.

Let this series take a break for a while and come back with fresh eyes.

 

[Celcius]

If they're not going to start from scratch they might as well just keep adding to SFV.

 

[Deleted member 10428]

Take USF4, add in SFV graphics. Perfect.

 

[Neonep]

This is a damned if they do, damned if they don't scenario. We all saw how people reacted to a lot of reused assets in MvCI.

I'd choose all new characters, personally.

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People weren't upset at them reusing assets for MVC:I, people were upset at the characters they chose to keep and not keep from MVC:I.

 

[Douche McBaggins The 4th]

It would be sony exclusive again if they used all the assets due to sony funding it. They would have to start from scratch again. With theor lack of funds? I don't see magic happening for ol boy capcpom.

 

[Transistor]

It would be sony exclusive again if they used all the assets due to sony funding it. They would have to start from scratch again. With theor lack of funds? I don't see magic happening for ol boy capcpom.

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Pretty much my exact train of thought

 

[Neoxon]

Too early to say.

I feel exhausted just hearing about a franchise with "VI" at the end.

Let this series take a break for a while and come back with fresh eyes.

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As I said already, we probably won't be looking at SFVI info until at least 2021 (given Capcom's plan to support SFV until the end of 2020). I'd say that's plenty of time between the two games.

 

[DevilPuncher]

Depends on how they reuse the assets.

SF5 is a weird case for me. It's half and half. A lot of the character models look great to me and just as many character models look... not so much. It's such a mixed bag that it doesn't really look like a lot of the character designs had a coherent vision.

 

[MrMephistoX]

For a numbered release definitely new engine but I would be perfectly fine if they milked the existing one for another x entry like they did for SF X Tekken or a new Darkstalkers.

 

[Al3x1s]

I can see where you're coming from, & I honestly share your opinion. But on the flip side, there are others who believe that sequels should have larger rosters than their predecessors. Smash in particular is gonna have a tough road coming off of Smash 4's 58-character roster in terms of choosing between reusing Smash 4's assets or starting from scratch for a full-on sequel.

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Ah well, I'm not of those people and I don't think any fighting game maker goes by that, maybe some times, but eventually they go back to lesser rosters. Maybe if games were still made 2D so you had basically the same quality sprites, HD this time, you could reuse them for many games adding new animations as necessary for new systems and moves but I don't see it with 3D constantly evolving.

 

[Dreamboum]

People weren't upset at them reusing assets for MVC:I, people were upset at the characters they chose to keep and not keep from MVC:I.

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People were upset about it, but they are just incredibly angry people that is trying to find a way to bury MVC:I even further, not realizing that this type of behaviour is damning pretty much the entire fighting game industry except for a select few games since...they DO reuse assets.

 

[LincolnTunnel]

It would be sony exclusive again if they used all the assets due to sony funding it. They would have to start from scratch again. With theor lack of funds? I don't see magic happening for ol boy capcpom.

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I don't think Sony would have any rights to the actual in-game assets. That would be an insane deal to make.The most they probably get is lifetime console exclusivity and branding for the Capcom Pro Tour. They don't own the game itself.

 

[Platy]

I have zero problems with reusing assets.

Just reuse the right assets. Like give Laura a better design or at least a bra, don't make the camera enter her but on her opening scene and some backgrounds are just ugly =P

 

[Ranmo]

I'm all for reusing assets so long as they really put the effort in the content, interface and mechanics. The problem is if they reuse a ton of assets and do not deliver on the UI, and content fronts there would be a huge backlash (at least for FGC outsiders). I'd almost say doing a huge content update to SFV is a much more safe route but then people have the misconception that it is still the same SFV.

 

[Neonep]

I'd prefer they take their time and start from scratch.

 

[selo]

Please scrap sfv completely.

 

[Neoxon]

Please scrap sfv completely.

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Like, scrap the assets going into SFVI or scrap SFV development ASAP?

 

[Kirblar]

As I said already, we probably won't be looking at SFVI info until at least 2021 (given Capcom's plan to support SFV until the end of 2020). I'd say that's plenty of time between the two games.

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I susect it might go through 2021, but it depends on whether or not certain crazy rumors are actually true.

 

[Slacker247]

Start from scratch, I guess.

Their development and management process needs to change. Whoever decided to rush SFV to release, forgo Arcade location testing (all part of the Sony deal, I guess), etc. They need to change that. I don't feel straight to console releases work. Or they don't work for Japanese devs, since MK/Injustice seem to cope just fine. Whatever it is, it needs a look into.

In terms of graphics, some of SFV's models are spectacular, alongside the amazing animation. But some look a little off or have ugly features (Alex and Ken's hair, of course).

Don't ask ArcSystem, because I find their gameplay unappealing, though their games do look good. I trust Capcom enough on their gameplay, generally.

Anyway, a next SF is probably ages away. Wouldn't mind seeing, you know, CvS3 in the meantime...

 

[TwoCoins]

Alpha reused assets and doesn't get The "super omega hyper" vetriol number games get. I say use existing models and engine and new mechanics. I still want charge special ala SFxT. All they need to do is tweak a few default costumes and release new stages. People who want them to reboot the series from the ground up is selfish especially in today's market with how expensive games can be.

 

[Neoxon]

Start from scratch, I guess.

Their development and management process needs to change. Whoever decided to rush SFV to release, forgo Arcade location testing (all part of the Sony deal, I guess), etc. They need to change that. I don't feel straight to console releases work. Or they don't work for Japanese devs, since MK/Injustice seem to cope just fine. Whatever it is, it needs a look into.

In terms of graphics, some of SFV's models are spectacular, alongside the amazing animation. But some look a little off or have ugly features (Alex and Ken's hair, of course).

Don't ask ArcSystem, because I find their gameplay unappealing, though their games do look good. I trust Capcom enough on their gameplay, generally.

Anyway, a next SF is probably ages away. Wouldn't mind seeing, you know, CvS3 in the meantime...

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Between SFV & MvCI, I think Capcom has their hands full for the time being.

 

[Deleted member 25721]

They can do whatever they prefer.
I'd love to see SF in over the top GGxrd art style though.

 

[selo]

Oh, assets I meant. If they're going to reuse models/characters from sfv, people are going to complain like they did on mvci, and rightfully so I believe.

Capcom needs to really consider and think through the business model they're going for. If they're going to do a half assed game like sfv on release, they should make the game either f2p or budget (look at how KI did it). Sfv on release should've been 30 at most.

 

[Dreamboum]

Scrapping assets completely for a genre that is dwindling in popularity outside of NRS and Nintendo games and in which a character costs around a million dollars to make is just asking to be upset for something that everyone knows will never come up.

 

[Die Squirrel Die]

Well there's a lot of middle ground between scrap everything and start from scratch, and just reuse the entire models, movesets and animations of existing characters, that Capcom could hit. Also I feel that the viability of the long term GaaS approach to SFV is still pending and won't become clearer until after the AE releases. If they succeed in turning things around in a major way then I can see them being bolder about starting from scratch, knowing that the audience will be with them that SFVI is a long term project. If not, then turning over existing assets into a new game isn't exactly something they've shied away from before.

 

[lusca_bueno]

Uh... just for the record, if we're talking models, then MK and Injustice games always remake them, all characters have new models in every single game (some characters even have 3 or 4 new models available for free in-game), not only that, new designs also. SFV reuses animation much the same as all other fighting games, when MK and Injustice tend to change a lot of the normals, compare MK9 to MKX Mileena for example, you'll see her movesets are totally different, re-done mocap.

Taking these matters aside, SFVI in my opinion should have all new assets, and more characters then SFV, like Injustice 2 for example, which made all-new high quality assets for all characters, including even gears, all free content, new movesets, and expanded its roster to almost 30 characters on-disc. That's the kind of investment I want Capcom to put into the next development in the series, their teams are great and can achieve it, they just need to pour more resources.

 

[Pancracio17]

Animations can be reused except for big stuff like supers or EX moves. The small stuff like a MK can stay as long as they make up for it with more characters. No reused models though.

 

[TwoCoins]

Uh... just for the record, if we're talking models, then MK and Injustice games always remake them, all characters have new models in every single game (some characters even have 3 or 4 new models available for free in-game), not only that, new designs also. SFV reuses animation much the same as all other fighting games, when MK and Injustice tend to change a lot of the normals, compare MK9 to MKX Mileena for example, you'll see her movesets are totally different, re-done mocap.

Taking these matters aside, SFVI in my opinion should have all new assets, and more characters then SFV, like Injustice 2 for example, which made all-new high quality assets for all characters, including even gears, all free content, new movesets, and expanded its roster to almost 30 characters on-disc. That's the kind of investment I want Capcom to put into the next development in the series, their teams are great and can achieve it, they just need to pour more resources.

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The assets and fighting animations in those games are piss poor and unnatural compared to other fighting games. There's no reason to completely redo a characters fighting design and animations unless they wer bordering clone territory.

 

[Neoxon]

Uh... just for the record, if we're talking models, then MK and Injustice games always remake them, all characters have new models in every single game (some characters even have 3 or 4 new models available for free in-game), not only that, new designs also. SFV reuses animation much the same as all other fighting games, when MK and Injustice tend to change a lot of the normals, compare MK9 to MKX Mileena for example, you'll see her movesets are totally different, re-done mocap.

Taking these matters aside, SFVI in my opinion should have all new assets, and more characters then SFV, like Injustice 2 for example, which made all-new high quality assets for all characters, including even gears, all free content, new movesets, and expanded its roster to almost 30 characters on-disc. That's the kind of investment I want Capcom to put into the next development in the series, their teams are great and can achieve it, they just need to pour more resources.

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Keep in mind that SFV is probably gonna end with around 46 characters by the end of Season 5. Having SFVI surpass that number while starting from scratch is a mighty tall order.

 

[DonutHole]

SFVI is YEARS away.

 

[Deleted member 8001]

Large rosters make for worse competitive games IMO.

 

[Stowaway Silfer]

Start from scratch and give it to Arc System Works.

 

[lucebuce]

SF6 should have lootboxes.

 

[MrCarter]

Taking these matters aside, SFVI in my opinion should have all new assets, and more characters then SFV, like Injustice 2 for example, which made all-new high quality assets for all characters, including even gears, all free content, new movesets, and expanded its roster to almost 30 characters on-disc. That's the kind of investment I want Capcom to put into the next development in the series, their teams are great and can achieve it, they just need to pour more resources.

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Not sure what this means but NRS definitely reuse a LOT of animations from their past games which is one of the reasons it looks bad in motion. It's a matter of quantity over quality for them and it shows. With SFV on the other hand, you can tell Capcom invested heavily in creating each character from scratch, and it's one of the reasons why I wouldn't mind if they reused these assets.

 

[Dreamboum]

Uh... just for the record, if we're talking models, then MK and Injustice games always remake them, all characters have new models in every single game (some characters even have 3 or 4 new models available for free in-game), not only that, new designs also. SFV reuses animation much the same as all other fighting games, when MK and Injustice tend to change a lot of the normals, compare MK9 to MKX Mileena for example, you'll see her movesets are totally different, re-done mocap.

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To be honest the animations are incredibly bad in NRS games, if reusing assets meant they could go for a more polished feel they should have definitely done so. No need to change what works.

EDIT: Actually I don't think we're even talking about the same thing.

 

[lusca_bueno]

The assets and fighting animations in those games are piss poor and unnatural compared to other fighting games. There's no reason to completely redo a characters fighting design and animations unless they wer bordering Clone territory.

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I don't know, I also think SF animations are much more beautiful, exactly because they are unnatural, they are artistic animations that can't be easily or practically replicated in real world. MK and Injustice do a more realistic movement approach, which is a bit more clumsy yes, because they are natural movement. I also prefer Street Fighter animation, it's stylistic and fresh. About the necessity to redo the movesets, I agree, there is no need, but it makes for a lot of interesting changes, for example, I didn't like to play as Mileena in MK9, but MKX Mileena is awesome! So even though it's not necessary, I like the outcomes of their more expensive ways of creating a game.

Keep in mind that SFV is probably gonna end with around 46 characters by the end of Season 5. Having SFVI surpass that number while starting from scratch is a mighty tall order.

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Yes, and this is awesome, but comparing to how much I paid in Injustice 2 for 30 characters ($60), having paid already $120 (base game + season 1 + season 2) for getting only close to this number in SFV, it's really not that great, I already bought the equivalent of 2 games to have the on-disc numbers of I2, because the FM system is not really functional for buying free DLC chars when you have to spend it to acquire stages and on-disc costumes.

 

[StallionDan]

If they gonna deliver another shitty 16 character count, reuse and make sure they offer a decent number instead.

SFV releasing with significantly less than SFIV had when could first buy it was a joke.

 

[Banana Aeon]

Uh... just for the record, if we're talking models, then MK and Injustice games always remake them, all characters have new models in every single game (some characters even have 3 or 4 new models available for free in-game), not only that, new designs also. SFV reuses animation much the same as all other fighting games, when MK and Injustice tend to change a lot of the normals, compare MK9 to MKX Mileena for example, you'll see her movesets are totally different, re-done mocap.

Taking these matters aside, SFVI in my opinion should have all new assets, and more characters then SFV, like Injustice 2 for example, which made all-new high quality assets for all characters, including even gears, all free content, new movesets, and expanded its roster to almost 30 characters on-disc. That's the kind of investment I want Capcom to put into the next development in the series, their teams are great and can achieve it, they just need to pour more resources.

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The animation is awful in Netherrealm fighters, and the model meshes are just cloned over and over. I'll rather Capcom give the love and care each character deserves rather than inflate numbers.

 

[rusty chrome]

SF6 won't happen for a long time. I don't mind if they reuse SF5 assets to speed things up.

 

[Powerpuff]

Animations can be reused except for big stuff like supers or EX moves. The small stuff like a MK can stay as long as they make up for it with more characters. No reused models though.

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A part of the assets could be reused indeed but reworked to still feel fresh.

Anyway, please Capcom, Street Fighter Alpha 4 before VI and give it back its cartoon/anime signature with some cel shading graphics.

 

[funky]

I could see SF6 being a quick turn around that kind of feels like a big patch for 5 but it fixes a lot of the core issues, drops the fighters network and of course being SF6 means they can release it everywhere.

 

[FrankJaeger]

SFV animations are good, so they might reuse them.

The assets and fighting animations in those games are piss poor and unnatural compared to other fighting games.

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No.