• Light/Dark
  • Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.
  • We have made minor adjustments to how the search bar works on ResetEra. You can read about the changes here.

Smash being pulled from online EVO 2020 is indicative of Nintendo’s online as a whole

Yinyangfooey

Yinyangfooey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,816
Look, it's no secret that Nintendo's online infrastructure is the worst of the big three, but this is frankly quite embarrassing.

Smash online is a pain in the ass to play online, and not to mention games like Animal Crossing. When people online come and go on an island, I have to watch an overly long cutscene of them doing so?

We're also still using Friend Codes in 2020 and there's still no Achievements system yet, something that Microsoft pioneered with the Xbox 360 in like, what, 2005? Then there's still the whole issue with cloud saves.

Good lord Nintendo, get with the fucking times. Ugh. The fact that Smash has to be pulled entirely from the lineup because online play was infeasible is just fucking embarrassing to me.
 
Irikan

Irikan

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,397
Yeah, when I saw that EVO was gonna do its tournament online, I knew that ultimate was gonna take the boot. Unfortunate really, that game deserve an online that's not so shit.
 
Jaded Alyx

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,549
No, because their online infrastructure on the whole has nothing to do with netcode in a single game (especially one developed by Bandai Namco).

People need to separate the two. NSO and it's woes has nothing to do with Smash netcode being poor. There's no correlation. You can't even blame servers as it's a P2P fighting game.
 
Iori Loco

Iori Loco

Member
Nov 10, 2017
2,288
Achievement tangent aside, yeah, making a tournament where competitors would need to exchange friend codes and lobby codes would be a huge pain in the ass. Worst part, I don't think they care that much if their game is at EVO or not, so they'll hardly take notice of it if the fanbase doesn't pester them (respectfully, of course) until they do something about their online.
 
Neoxon

Neoxon

Spotlighting Black Excellence - Diversity Analyst
Member
Oct 25, 2017
85,661
Houston, TX
Smash is more Bandai Namco than Nintendo. Games like ARMS actually have decent netcode.
 
RainRainRain

RainRainRain

Member
Jan 15, 2018
831
I see people saying Bandai is to blame for the netcode but then I think about Mario Maker 2's lagfest online and I wonder if that's really the case.
 
sibarraz

sibarraz

Prophet of Regret - One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
18,158
That esports scene in the Switch reveal video must be the biggest bullshit in a videogame trailer, and thats saying a lot
 
leder

leder

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,111
Jaded Alyx said:
No, because their online infrastructure on the whole has nothing to do with netcode in a single game (especially one developed by Bandai Namco).

People need to separate the two. NSO and it's woes has nothing to do with Smash netcode being poor. There's no correlation. You can't even blame servers as it's a P2P fighting game.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yeah, came in to say something like this. I still hold Nintendo accountable for the awful Smash online as well since they funded and published it, but it's got absolutely nothing to do with achievements or friendcodes.
 
Roliq

Roliq

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Sep 23, 2018
6,228
I don't know how Nintendo not having an achievement system has anything to do with their online sucking
 
Chaos2Frozen

Chaos2Frozen

Member
Nov 3, 2017
28,114
"The true value of Smash are the friends we made along the way.

Don't worry about material things like prize money or good online, just have fun!"

- Nintendo, probably
 
Jaded Alyx

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,549
Namco who seem to bristle at the very idea of using rollback netcode whenever it's brought up. Out of all the major fighting game companies, they are easily the most backward in that area.
 
Directed by Fulci

Directed by Fulci

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,439
Jaded Alyx said:
No, because their online infrastructure on the whole has nothing to do with netcode in a single game (especially one developed by Bandai Namco).

People need to separate the two. NSO and it's woes has nothing to do with Smash netcode being poor. There's no correlation. You can't even blame servers as it's a P2P fighting game.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It does, though. Nintendo has final approval on whatever BN puts together; they're the publisher and the majority IP owner. They also have final approval on NSO, besides being directly responsible for its development. The simple fact is that they don't give a shit about online.
 
Sir Hound

Sir Hound

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,212
Every time I played Smash Bros online and it worked, it was amazing. Just like playing Smash Bros as a kid. I'd still be playing if it worked every time and probably have bought all the characters, but because I got a playable connection about a quarter of the time it just collects dust on the shelf. My recorded playtime is a fraction of Mario Kart.
 
Nanashrew

Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
Jaded Alyx said:
Namco who seem to bristle at the very idea of using rollback netcode whenever it's brought up. Out of all the major fighting game companies, they are easily the most backward in that area.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Yep. SNK and Arcsys are showing they're interested and actually doing things with rollback netcode, Capcom is trying something I guess, but Bamco is not really doing anything at all.
 
Jaded Alyx

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,549
Directed by Fulci said:
It does, though. Nintendo has final approval on whatever BN puts together; they're the publisher and the majority IP owner. They also have final approval on NSO, besides being directly responsible for its development. The simple fact is that they don't give a shit about online.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Smash Ultimate online being bad or good, is not dependent on NSO. If the theory is the game got pulled from EVO because of the poor netcode, what does that have to do with NSO? Sure I can accept that Nintendo should demand better from Namco, but that's not NSO.
 

Deleted member 364

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,240
This game has a 94 or something on Metacritic when it's a fighting game with busted online. Maybe Nintendo will change when critics and fans stop giving them a pass.
 
Nephilim

Nephilim

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,325
I do enjoy my online experience with Ultimate... quick and stable matches most of the time, but Nintendo has to invest in online gaming MUCH more. There is no excuse to not do so, Nintendo really can be stubborn when it comes to certain aspects. Sooner or later you have to invest in online Nintendo!
 
Directed by Fulci

Directed by Fulci

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,439
Jaded Alyx said:
Smash Ultimate online being bad or good, is not dependent on NSO. If the theory is the game got pulled from EVO because of the poor netcode, what does that have to do with NSO? Sure I can accept that Nintendo should demand better from Namco, but that's not NSO.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Smash online and NSO are both, ultimately, products of Nintendo. It's the same people making decisions as to how they're budgeted. At best, the people who control the flow of money at Nintendo don't care about online play; at worst, for reasons I cannot fathom, they're actively hostile to it.
 
justiceiro

justiceiro

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
6,664
Yeah, let's all pretend Nintendo want smash at Evo, and not like they actively tried to stop that from happening in the past.

The only embarrassing thing is people paying for the online. Want to show online is important? Start by not paying for their online for a start. Hell, maybe don't even buy game where such a fundamental part of the game doesn't work as well as expected.

I don't get, the worse Nintendo online gets, it seems the better they do in business. I'm really sceptical when people saying online is important for gaming on a Nintendo console, because there is zero evidence of people actually doing something about it beyond venting online.

DGenerator said:
But the esports team playing Splatoon in the reveal trailer tho!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Well, there was a reason they played on a local network.
 
Nanashrew

Nanashrew

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
justiceiro said:
Yeah, let's all pretend Nintendo want smash at Evo, and not like they actively tried to stop that from happening in the past.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
That was solved within a matter of hours. It's time to get over this. If Nintendo wanted to truly shut it down it would have never have been resolved at all and Nintendo would have recieved scorn and they would not have cared just like many things they shut down. It was overzealous lawyer that made an about face in a matter of hours because it's likely they thought there was infringement on the IP going on.
 
Nano-Nandy

Nano-Nandy

Member
Mar 26, 2019
2,302
Jaded Alyx said:
No, because their online infrastructure on the whole has nothing to do with netcode in a single game (especially one developed by Bandai Namco).

People need to separate the two. NSO and it's woes has nothing to do with Smash netcode being poor. There's no correlation. You can't even blame servers as it's a P2P fighting game.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Pretty much.
I know there are issues with online services in Switch; but throwing everything and the kitchen sink as far as blaming goes doesn't help the situation.

Like the only issue that pertains Smash and EVO is: online multiplayer (assuming that was the reason). And that has to do with Bandai Namco in this case.

But friend codes, cloud saves (which Smash supports), achievements (which Smash has)... are not related to EVO. So don't know why mention them in this particular case.
 

Deleted member 2254

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
21,467
Mushroomer25 said:
Short of a hostile corporate takeover, or fans finally just not buying their faulty shit anymore - this problem will never be solved.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yup. Don't get me wrong, I'm a happy Switch owner, first time I bought a Nintendo console in its launch year and bought a lot of games for it. But when their crippled sequels (Pokémon SWSH, Super Mario Party), their high price low effort remakes (Mario Kart 8 Deluxe), their greatly expanded sequels with some shocking flaws (Maker 2 and Smash), etc. sell record numbers for the franchise, they literally have 0 reason to change. Market dictates what they're okay with, if games with enormous flaws end up having 90+ Metacritic and break series records of sales, what are we even talking about?

No offense, but look at this very forum: the speculation thread (!) for the DLC characters alone has been through 13 official community threads. That is almost as much as Sony and Microsoft's first party studios' threads combined, which includes like 30 studios and a crazy amount of games and hardware talk. People are rewarding Nintendo for their work, so they're not gonna go out of their way when the consumers are saying that what they're doing is more than fine.
 

Holundrian

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,296
It's more one of many symptom on their backwards as shit design philosophy for anything online. NSO being garbage, Smash Online being garbage, Animal Crossing Online garbage not even describing how bad it is, etc. They're all definitely linked by a terrible design ethos that I would regard as pure incompetence even 8 years ago.
 
Jaded Alyx

Jaded Alyx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,549
Directed by Fulci said:
Smash online and NSO are both, ultimately, products of Nintendo. It's the same people making decisions as to how they're budgeted. At best, the people who control the flow of money at Nintendo don't care about online play; at worst, for reasons I cannot fathom, they're actively hostile to it.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
I don't really disagree. I'm just saying if you want to criticise Smash's online play then do so. If you want to criticise NSO, then do that as well. But lumping them together is diluting the argument because other than the fact that they are both Nintendo products, one has nothing to do with the other.

ARMS for instance has very good online. Decent netcode for what it is, good features and lobby system. Has nothing to do with the quality of NSO.
 
Foffy

Foffy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,400
This implies Nintendo gives a shit about EVO and the tournament scene. They've only ever used them for marketing.

Smash having arguably the worst netcode of any major fighting game and next to nothing ever being done to fix it is a sign they don't care about that stuff. It's a party game you can try to play with friends, I guess, and that's what they see it as if their effort to ""address"" it is of any consideration.
 
MegaRockEXE

MegaRockEXE

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,968
Nintendo had held those Battlefy tournaments online before, hadn't they? Were they not confident in that outcome to play in the big leagues with EVO?
 
lvl 99 Pixel

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,817
Foffy said:
Smash having arguably the worst netcode of any major fighting game and next to nothing ever being done to fix it is a sign they don't care about that stuff. It's a party game you can try to play with friends, I guess, and that's what they see it as if their effort to ""address"" it is of any consideration.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Well, queuing for 4 player free for all's with items makes it exponentially more likely to be a lagfest, so the whole party game aspect falls apart too.

MegaRockEXE said:
Nintendo had held those Battlefy tournaments online before, hadn't they? Were they not confident in that outcome to play in the big leagues with EVO?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Official Tournament
twitter.com

Rod Breslau on Twitter

“Nintendo cut stream of a match in this weekend's Smash NA Open qualifiers due to lag in the match, and then the host presumably lied to viewers saying the players did not experience lag while playing. Smash Ultimate online is notoriously laggy. #NintendoNAO19 https://t.co/cxFtA9bdeg”
twitter.com twitter.com
 
Magneto

Magneto

Prophet of Truth
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,449
Neoxon said:
That's on Nintendo, but Smash is primarily developed by Bandai Namco.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Both are responsible for how bad the netcode is. Bandai Namco is developing the online portion, but Nintendo don't care about how it perform / not saying anything during development, and not asking Bandai Namco to fix it.
 
SalvaPot

SalvaPot

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,608
MegaRockEXE said:
Nintendo had held those Battlefy tournaments online before, hadn't they? Were they not confident in that outcome to play in the big leagues with EVO?
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Not really, when they start laggin in their stream they'll usually cut back to the commentator tables. They can't do that at EVo.
 
Mariolee

Mariolee

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,320
Playing Pikachu online with Smash netcode is like scraping your face against asphalt.

Yes I have the ethernet adaptor.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.