So uh, Last Jedi has a lower RT audience score than Phantom Menace (unmarked spoilers)
- Thread starter MajorGripex
- Start date
Lucas was always an insane idea man that needed filters, but that said I mean one thing he was very adamant about was how every movie/trilogy should have similarities but feel distinct. I'm reasonably confident that whatever ideas of his thst Disney throes our for these films could have resulted in a better product than what we seem to be getting.
Depends who you ask. This movie is going to be incredibly divisive. I liked it MUCH MORE than TFA, but I think it will be worse for a lot of people, because it subverts your expectations for how the series will play out. I genuinely thought going in I knew the general direction the trilogy would take, and now I have no clue how EP 9 will play out, which is great for me.
I think an important point in the new series will be that the entire notion that Force potential has to be trained in either the Jedi or the Sith way is just a relic of two antiquated religions. I think the next trilogy will be about a new dogma rising of home-grown self trained "Jedi" who connect with the Force without any formal training, as we all saw that trying to control and direct the Force like that ultimately led to disaster.
1.) Rey didn't walk down the middle grey path
2.) Rey's parents were nobodies
3.) Snoke dies unceremoniously with no explanation of his backstory (But I don't think he or at least the force he represents is really gone.)
4.) Luke dies without really training Rey
5.) Finn, Rose, and Poe ultimately fail, which fucks over tons of people.
6.) Leia doesn't get a send-off in this film even though they made it look like it would happen several times.
2.) Rey's parents were nobodies
3.) Snoke dies unceremoniously with no explanation of his backstory (But I don't think he or at least the force he represents is really gone.)
4.) Luke dies without really training Rey
5.) Finn, Rose, and Poe ultimately fail, which fucks over tons of people.
6.) Leia doesn't get a send-off in this film even though they made it look like it would happen several times.
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I can't think of a single scene that was "experimental comedy". The Last Jedi is a pretty dark film, and Star Wars has a history of injecting some humor to make sure things don't get TOO serious. Honestly, I can't think of a joke that didn't land for me personally. The humor isn't any different than Yoda messing with Luke in ESB, or Kylo freaking out and stormtroopers walking away in TFA.
I am in the same boat, well said. Star Wars has morphed so now from what it's roots are that, while many don't care and that's great for them, I have no investment in it anymore. I still do not understand how the New Republic pre The Force Awakens was not fighting the antagonistic First Order. It just isn't a compelling narrative for me anymore.
I will come back if Ewan gets a Kenobi movie though.
I will come back if Ewan gets a Kenobi movie though.
That's not a helpful lens on the movie. A lot of people didn't like it for normal movie reasons... poor pacing, wasteful side plots, inconsistent character motivations, characters making stupid decisions, and breaking the internal logic set up by the world. I could be describing any mediocre or divisive movie with those terms, but they all apply to to TLJ.
Luke says as much, but the way the Jedi operated in the prequels is large part of why they failed. People freak out about midichlorians because they don't understand what the purpose of that narrative was. Perhaps it wasn't as clear as it should have been, but the whole point was that the Jedi order was focusing in to much on the biological concepts of the force, they had lost sight in the ideals that even those who weren't quite so naturally gifted could train, focus, and hone in their abilities.
Because shit happened. Your only complaint appears to be "It didn't happen like in my fanfiction".
The Last Jedi thing fucks everything about Star Wars in 150 minutes. All the fucking legendary characters, Force, Jedi, Dark Side etc. everything else is destroyed. There is no word to say, cause there's nothing in your hands when you get out of the theater. I don't care about Rotten Tomatoes, but I agree with the audience score.
The editing was certainly fast paced, perhaps a few more scenes could have used some breathing room but I wouldn't call it breakneck speed or anything. As for the side plots, the only reason they were "wasteful" to some people seems to be that the characters didn't succeed in their goals. It seems silly to just ignore any kind of personal growth a character might have just because in the story they don't accomplish their mission parameter.
What internal logic was broken? Nothing I can remember...
I don't give a shit about that, I grew up in the 90's and don't even remember if I saw the originals before the special edition.
I actually prefer the end of ROTJ in the special editions
yeah seriously, history never repeats itself
I read that on a fortune cookie once
Remnants of a toppled empire reforming a new faction isn't exactly unheard of.
Yeah I remember that time the Roman Empire came back and stormed the beaches of Normandy.
Neo Nazis exist even though the Third Reich was defeated.
Just because they defeated the Emperor doesn't mean all of sudden every one who was part of the Empire suddenly put down their weapons or stopped believing in that vision
But don't you feel it has not been adequately explained why there was only a ragtag Resistance? Its like if the Nazis came back and the UK told France eh...you handle it? If I missed those details in the films I would love to know.
You, uh... have heard of the Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium), right?
This movie isn't good and neither was the last one.Star Wars fatigue will probably wake people up to the realization that even as a kids movie these two recent films are awful.
I'm not surprised with the audience score, i actually think it should be a lot lower.
I'm not surprised with the audience score, i actually think it should be a lot lower.
The Roman Empire existed for a thousand more years as the Byzantine Empire, the Eastern Roman Empire. Have you heard of Constantinople?
I will say that the prequels actually had better green screen effects. TLJ green screen was... holy moly. Bad.
Yeah, Yoda burns that stupid tree for that precise reason. He makes fun of those books too. Legends don't matter as much, Luke says so and Rey reminds him that they at least matter in order to inspire people, but not to dwell on them and be obsessed by it.
At the end, Luke understands this too and literally transcends and becomes more powerful than anyone can imagine.
At the end, Luke understands this too and literally transcends and becomes more powerful than anyone can imagine.
Congratulations, you got the point of TLJ and are now in shock.
Mod Edit: Please mark your spoilers unless you're in the spoiler thread itself.
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Lacking taste in cinema? Give me a break. You must be an expert at knowing what movies others should consider good.
But I see it's f****** boring like I saw three movies of the Empire and like 30 years of Empire material I don't need movies based off of the Empire again. Make new should up the universe in Star Wars is f****** huge
Fuck the more I think about it the more I love it. It subverts everything I knew about the franchise and I love it. First Star Wars film in a long time that feels really really unique and fresh.
This is the Skywalker saga story.
The upcoming Rian Johnson trilogy is for your new and unexplored territory.
They blew up a bunch of Republic sympathetic planets in TFA, leaving the Resistance at the mercy of distant and corrupt bureaucrats.
So, the problem with TFA was that it was too familiar, and now the problem with TLJ is that it's not familiar enough?
lack imagination, you do
flex imagination muscles, you should
they'll get you there!
(I thought "LOL" sufficed hence the ghost edit)
But the Resistance was around before that happened. Was the Republic just apathetic to fighting or seeing the First Order as a threat?
The Empire worked because it was on the back of every major planet in the galaxy.
It had a senate this large
The First Order is the remnants of the Empire's heavily defeated forces,
The First Order is hiding on the outskirts of the galaxy funneling all their resources into Starkiller Base(a planet sized base and weapon).
Starkiller Base is blown up but the First Order doesn't lose a step, and yet is big enough to move in on the Galaxy.
Yes the Republic capital and the fleet was destroyed but all those member systems couldn't provide any support to the Resistance?
The entire foundation of the Sequel Trilogy is terrible.
And yet I loved it. That's why I'm still willing to go into TLJ with an open mind.
No, they're wasteful because Finn and Rose aren't interesting characters, and Canto Blight wasn't very well developed. The races were poorly established, the nature of the denizens was barely hinted at and then only explicitly explained without bias in a brief exposition after they had already left the city. It was so rushed that you barely had time to even understand what was happening with the slave children (which is also weird because I thought Vader outlawed child slavery). So instead of getting a fully-developed, interesting world to dwell in, we have a half-baked city to rush through that doesn't even move the plot forward. Nothing is earned from it, and it wastes time that could have otherwise gone to other parts of the movie. What was the personal growth? Saving the animals that are just going to get captured again? Realizing that the terrorists buy weapons from the same war profiteers as the first order does? Badly flirting with each other? Realizing the reason Rose wants to rebel is that the first order contracted some potentially unethical mining operations... that the rebellion also benefited from? It was all a big nothing. It didn't change anything. And sometimes that's fine, but in a movie that's already as long as this one was it didn't need to be there, or there needed to be more of it.
Internal logic like Jedi can't fly through space, but suddenly Leia is both a trained Jedi and can fly through space. Internal logic like the hyperspace blast knocked out everyone in the hangar but for no good reason Finn and Rose survived... the only people in the hangar who weren't armed and were in compromising positions. Internal logic like Luke just losing the will to live. Internal logic like Finn wakes up in the movie in a bacta suit because injurious battles have consequences, but by the end of the movie he survives three ship crashes that should have been fatal. Internal logic like the laser on Krait was melting the huge door and melting Finn's ship but he didn't have so much as a blister. Internal logic like the first order codes being impossible to crack and only the one guy Maz knows is good enough to find a way through, but some random nobody in the jail cell is also perfectly capable of cracking it.
Internal logic like Jedi can't fly through space, but suddenly Leia is both a trained Jedi and can fly through space. Internal logic like the hyperspace blast knocked out everyone in the hangar but for no good reason Finn and Rose survived... the only people in the hangar who weren't armed and were in compromising positions. Internal logic like Luke just losing the will to live. Internal logic like Finn wakes up in the movie in a bacta suit because injurious battles have consequences, but by the end of the movie he survives three ship crashes that should have been fatal. Internal logic like the laser on Krait was melting the huge door and melting Finn's ship but he didn't have so much as a blister. Internal logic like the first order codes being impossible to crack and only the one guy Maz knows is good enough to find a way through, but some random nobody in the jail cell is also perfectly capable of cracking it.
This movie has a ton of really fun things in it, and it's beautifully shot and parts of it are a deeply compelling story. But it's not perfect, and it's okay that the movie's jarring inconsistencies are enough to take some people out of the experience.
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I don't think you asked a question but you accidentally answered it in your own post
But the Skywalker Saga post Return of the Jedi can be anywhere in anything not the same old retread of the same old things.
I didn't like the destruction of previous fiction and the here ya go explain nothing attitude of this movie .. nothing to further character development or make you wanna see another movie in the franchise.
Okay, I'm starting to get worried
Actually there was, it's just you didn't what what it was. That's not the same as it not existing.