That's rather an apt description I'd say.
OK made it to Casino park but will finish it tomorrow. I'd say Heroes has a good idea but the execution is mediocre.
Sonic the Hedgehog Community |OT| There’s no end to this franchise!
- Thread starter Professor Beef
- Start date
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OK made it to Casino park but will finish it tomorrow. I'd say Heroes has a good idea but the execution is mediocre.
So far here's my ranking of the 3D Sonic games from my fav. to least fav.
Favourites
Sonic Generations, Sonic Forces, Sonic Adventure 1, City Escape from Sonic Adventure 2
Least favourites
Sonic Heroes, Sonic Adventure 2
I am willing to put PS2/Wii Sonic Unleashed in my favourites list eventually once I replay it.
Favourites
Sonic Generations, Sonic Forces, Sonic Adventure 1, City Escape from Sonic Adventure 2
Least favourites
Sonic Heroes, Sonic Adventure 2
I am willing to put PS2/Wii Sonic Unleashed in my favourites list eventually once I replay it.
from best to worst
Faves: Sonic Adventure, ... ... uh Generations is ok I guess
Least fave: Unleashed, the rotten eggs my roommate forgot in the fridge, Adventure 2, 06, Heroes, Forces, Shadow
Faves: Sonic Adventure, ... ... uh Generations is ok I guess
Least fave: Unleashed, the rotten eggs my roommate forgot in the fridge, Adventure 2, 06, Heroes, Forces, Shadow
Best 3D Sonic: Rodea the Sky Soldier Wii
Worst 3D Sonic: Rodea the Sky Soldier 3DS/Wii U
The versions not made by Yuji Naka are seriously lower than stuff like Sonic 06 I think.
Worst 3D Sonic: Rodea the Sky Soldier 3DS/Wii U
The versions not made by Yuji Naka are seriously lower than stuff like Sonic 06 I think.
Colors and Generations are at the top.
Worst are Adventure 2, Shadow and Adventure
(worst offenders are Shadow and Adventure 2).
Mania still the best even though its not 3D.
Worst are Adventure 2, Shadow and Adventure
(worst offenders are Shadow and Adventure 2).
Mania still the best even though its not 3D.
My favorite 3D game is Generations but I have soft spot for Adventure 1.
The ones I actually dislike are Adventure 2 and Shadow. Disclaimer: Never played 06 and Black Knight
The ones I actually dislike are Adventure 2 and Shadow. Disclaimer: Never played 06 and Black Knight
This is the best day ever. The gang's pretty much all here. All they need is Matt Herms and a handful of others, but all the heavy hitters are here.
I wanna go.
IMO,
Not actually a 3D Sonic game but better than practically every game below anyway Tier:
Sonic & All Stars Racing Transformed
Top Tier:
Sonic Generations
Sonic Colors
Flawed but still somewhat enjoyable Tier:
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Unleashed HD
Decidedly Mediocre Tier:
Sonic Adventure 2
Sonic Forces
Sonic Unleashed Wii/PS2
Sonic Lost World Wii U
I actually forgot about these games in the first draft of my list so that says a lot about my thought towards them Tier:
Sonic Heroes
Shadow the Hedgehog
Trash Tier:
Sonic & the Black Knight
Sonic & the Secret Rings
Sonic Lost World 3DS
06 Tier:
Sonic 06
Not actually a 3D Sonic game but better than practically every game below anyway Tier:
Sonic & All Stars Racing Transformed
Top Tier:
Sonic Generations
Sonic Colors
Flawed but still somewhat enjoyable Tier:
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Unleashed HD
Decidedly Mediocre Tier:
Sonic Adventure 2
Sonic Forces
Sonic Unleashed Wii/PS2
Sonic Lost World Wii U
I actually forgot about these games in the first draft of my list so that says a lot about my thought towards them Tier:
Sonic Heroes
Shadow the Hedgehog
Trash Tier:
Sonic & the Black Knight
Sonic & the Secret Rings
Sonic Lost World 3DS
06 Tier:
Sonic 06
Game or TV show? Because the TV show is excellent.
I feel pretty indifferent about the game. Like Forces, a lot of wasted potential.
I guess I'll do this too.
Sonic Adventure 2 > Sonic Generations >> Sonic Lost World (Wii U) >= Sonic Adventure > Sonic Heroes >= Sonic and the Secret Rings >> Sonic Forces > Shadow the Hedgehog
The first two would be the only games I actually consider great, and then it instantly drops down to the "just OK" territory. Heroes and Secret Rings are mediocre, and Forces and Shadow I think are bad with a couple of redeeming elements about them.
Sonic Adventure 2 > Sonic Generations >> Sonic Lost World (Wii U) >= Sonic Adventure > Sonic Heroes >= Sonic and the Secret Rings >> Sonic Forces > Shadow the Hedgehog
The first two would be the only games I actually consider great, and then it instantly drops down to the "just OK" territory. Heroes and Secret Rings are mediocre, and Forces and Shadow I think are bad with a couple of redeeming elements about them.
Rise of Lyric is just a generic licensed kids game basically. I always found it weird when people lumped it up with Sonic 06, especially considering 06 severely impacted the public opinion of SEGA as a whole for more than half that console generation.
Obviously we know it was meant to be a lot different, SEGA way overestimated the ability of the devs and the Nintendo exclusive deal severely hurt it's potential but it ended up being exclusive to Wii U anyways so who really even cares?
I just realized I completely forgot Lost World even existed
and I actually beat that game too unlike half the other shitty ones
and I actually beat that game too unlike half the other shitty ones
What is Spaziante doing these days? Wouldn't to at least see some covers for the new comic from him.
Genuinely great and easy to recommend tier
- Generations
- Colors
Flawed but I really like it tier
- Adventure
- Adventure 2
- Heroes
- Unleashed (HD)
'Bad' but I fuck it I still enjoy it tier
- Shadow
- Secret Rings (except going for 100%)
- Forces
Fucking shit but I'll eat it tier
- Sonic 2006
I just don't care tier
- Sonic Unleashed (SD)
- Lost World (Wii U)
Even I ain't touching that garbage again tier
- Black Knight
- Lost World 3DS
- Generations
- Colors
Flawed but I really like it tier
- Adventure
- Adventure 2
- Heroes
- Unleashed (HD)
'Bad' but I fuck it I still enjoy it tier
- Shadow
- Secret Rings (except going for 100%)
- Forces
Fucking shit but I'll eat it tier
- Sonic 2006
I just don't care tier
- Sonic Unleashed (SD)
- Lost World (Wii U)
Even I ain't touching that garbage again tier
- Black Knight
- Lost World 3DS
The game. It certainly had a lot of roughness but I found it enjoyable enough over all, I've certainly played a lot worse.
The show is absolute gold though.
Sure, there's worse games out there. Outside of being generally really buggy, Rise of Lyric is playable.
But it really bums me out that BRB had the idea to make a cooperative Sonic game where you could switch between characters on the fly and just decided to make it an extremely generic platforming/brawler combo. I swear to god one of the worst trends in modern gaming (outside of terrible business practices) is how nearly every kid-friendly-console game not made by Nintendo is this cookie-cutter basic-ass platformer with 4 characters who punch and kick their enemies with the same combo over and over again while occasionally "solving" generic button puzzles. It's so fucking soulless.
I enjoyed a lot of different kinds of platformers as a kid. Stuff like Banjo, Ratchet, Sonic, and Kirby were all very different from one another. Now it seems like a lot of kids are just playing Lego, Skylanders (or were), and other top down games that play so similarly.
Say what you want about Sonic Team's awfully inconsistent track record, but they're at least different from the pack and I'll gladly take that over another goddamn Lego game.
the correct list
I like what they tried with the characterization of the main group. Didn't quite work out in the end for several reasons, as we all know, but... they tried.
So I've been continuing my Sonic Heroes playthrough
Please tell me there is a VERY SPECIAL PLACE IN HELL for all who designed Casino Park and Bingo Highway, and that they also share it with all who designed World 4.
Holy shit, can you make these stages any more needlessly tedious?
Not only that but attacking "all those Eggman Robots!" has no impact, what the heck happened with the SFX team did they forget that damaging enemies should give an audio feedback of sorts? It feels like I'm just patting these dang robots when I attack them.
Soundtrack continues to be great though, but holy crap did Rail Canyon make me want to punch someone.
Please tell me there is a VERY SPECIAL PLACE IN HELL for all who designed Casino Park and Bingo Highway, and that they also share it with all who designed World 4.
Holy shit, can you make these stages any more needlessly tedious?
Not only that but attacking "all those Eggman Robots!" has no impact, what the heck happened with the SFX team did they forget that damaging enemies should give an audio feedback of sorts? It feels like I'm just patting these dang robots when I attack them.
Soundtrack continues to be great though, but holy crap did Rail Canyon make me want to punch someone.
The vastly negative opinion Heroes gets really confuses me.
The gamecube (best version that anyone who wants to play the game should try) has a 72% on metacritic. Review sites weren't exactly praising the game but the general opinion from them seemed to be that the game was pretty decent and was a step in the right direction for the 3D outings since it was more focused and lighthearted.
I get the complaints (or at least some of them)... The game has a lot of little control issues and can act pretty funky at times. It's not as well put together in many ways as SA2 and it's not like that game is super-polished either.
But I dunno... I had a lot of fun playing it as a kid. I encountered very few hurdles from what I recall. Nothing really stumped me like, say, Crazy Gadget or Security Hall from SA2. Lives are plentiful, checkpoints are fairly close to one another, the combat is very basic and can be breezed through whenever you got your team at level 2 or 3... Even the Special Stages, as jank as they are, can be beaten by simply holding the boost button and literally not moving the stick at all (even on the last stage).
I just don't see what's so awful about the game. Could it have been better executed? Sure, but I like a lot of what they attempted here and I come back to Heroes far more than a number of other 3D entries in the franchise.
The grinding in Heroes is buggier than usual, since if you're not aligned with whatever rail you want to switch to, you can overshoot it. It's easy enough to prevent once you know it but I can understand why some have issues with it. Otherwise, it's a very fun stage with some kicking music. Hang Castle is my personal favorite due to the atmosphere and the huge shortcuts you can do.
The gamecube (best version that anyone who wants to play the game should try) has a 72% on metacritic. Review sites weren't exactly praising the game but the general opinion from them seemed to be that the game was pretty decent and was a step in the right direction for the 3D outings since it was more focused and lighthearted.
I get the complaints (or at least some of them)... The game has a lot of little control issues and can act pretty funky at times. It's not as well put together in many ways as SA2 and it's not like that game is super-polished either.
But I dunno... I had a lot of fun playing it as a kid. I encountered very few hurdles from what I recall. Nothing really stumped me like, say, Crazy Gadget or Security Hall from SA2. Lives are plentiful, checkpoints are fairly close to one another, the combat is very basic and can be breezed through whenever you got your team at level 2 or 3... Even the Special Stages, as jank as they are, can be beaten by simply holding the boost button and literally not moving the stick at all (even on the last stage).
I just don't see what's so awful about the game. Could it have been better executed? Sure, but I like a lot of what they attempted here and I come back to Heroes far more than a number of other 3D entries in the franchise.
The grinding in Heroes is buggier than usual, since if you're not aligned with whatever rail you want to switch to, you can overshoot it. It's easy enough to prevent once you know it but I can understand why some have issues with it. Otherwise, it's a very fun stage with some kicking music. Hang Castle is my personal favorite due to the atmosphere and the huge shortcuts you can do.
Sonic Heroes did alot of things right, and I thought the animosity towards it being so much worse than Adventure 2 has been strange. It's an attempt to further improve the 3D Sonic formula, with having one playstyle and give it more variety through the team system. Similar to how Colors attempted the same with the wisps.
Unfortunately, the engine didn't improve like it did from Adventure 1 to 2, it actually got worse.
Unfortunately, the engine didn't improve like it did from Adventure 1 to 2, it actually got worse.
There's not a single moment in Heroes that I find enjoyable and that's its biggest flaw for me. I hate SA2 but shit at least I enjoy a third of it, even if not as much as I do the equivalent playstyle in SA1. But Heroes? The game's just a slog from the opening seconds to the credits. And on top of that it's ugly and the music isn't as good as the previous two games.
I just don't get where it's much of a slog? If you do all the extra missions, or try to rush through all 4 stories then sure, it can be repetitive, but the main game is pretty fast paced to me. You're always going from running, to platforming, to fighting and then back again. It's a very quick loop and I don't think the combat really takes anywhere near as much time as some say. The level design on a whole is also better than Adventure 2 thanks to more paths to take.
Also, while I get that the game from a technical standpoint is severely lacking, the art direction is by far the some of the best a 3D Sonic has ever gotten.
I'm at least not surprised with your opinion Sami, since you don't like almost any 3D Sonic games, but for many others I find the distaste towards Heroes to be confusing.
My problem is that no parts of the gameplay loop is really enjoyable in any meaningful way. The speed gameplay is inferior to Sonic/Shadow in SA2 and especially SA1 because the control and level design got downgraded. Flight is just boring, and combat is the worst part of the whole game. None of it feels gratifying.
It's subjective and I hear you but it's personally my least favorite art style in the series overall (besides Shadow). The characters look garish and I personally don't care for the super cartoony highway-in-the-sky look at all, much more a fan of the colorful, detailed, grittier look of S3&K, SA1, Unleashed, and Mania.
;)
Heroes' levels tend to feel longer than they should be, partially because there's a lot of momentum breaking moments where you're combat gated or have to find and hit a switch or something, partially because you get the occasional lengthy scripted sequence, and partially because sometimes they just straight up recycle geometry to pad things out. God help you if you're scavenger hunting with the Chaotix on top of everything else.
Eeehhh
There's like almost zero verticality and room for experimentation in Heroes level design. Even a number of levels in 06 had that. Heroes is just a series of rooms/platforms loosely connected by really long hallways
All floating in the sky over bottomless pits because not a single level in Heroes gives the littlest inkling of a shit about establishing a sense of place and is happier being a beep boop video game level floating over nothing for no reason
There's like almost zero verticality and room for experimentation in Heroes level design. Even a number of levels in 06 had that. Heroes is just a series of rooms/platforms loosely connected by really long hallways
All floating in the sky over bottomless pits because not a single level in Heroes gives the littlest inkling of a shit about establishing a sense of place and is happier being a beep boop video game level floating over nothing for no reason
Yeah, the blatant padding is a definite problem in Heroes (and it's a problem in Shadow and 06 as well). The levels all being above a bottomless pit is also unfortunate but I don't feel like I fall to my death anymore in Heroes than I do in most other entries. The controls are a too loose. Speed characters accelerate too quickly and turn too sharply once they're at full speed. I think these are all valid complaints.
But still, is it enough to warrant the amount of scrutiny the game gets? I see it get treated the same as Black Knight, Shadow, and sometimes even 06. Is it really that bad to people?
Maybe it's just because I enjoy replaying levels over and over to get better scores/times and I know the game so well that I play it basically in autopilot now, but I've never been genuinely upset while playing Heroes, outside of a couple Chaotix missions.
But still, is it enough to warrant the amount of scrutiny the game gets? I see it get treated the same as Black Knight, Shadow, and sometimes even 06. Is it really that bad to people?
Maybe it's just because I enjoy replaying levels over and over to get better scores/times and I know the game so well that I play it basically in autopilot now, but I've never been genuinely upset while playing Heroes, outside of a couple Chaotix missions.
It's absolutely comparable to Shadow, if nothing else. The physics are almost identical between both games, and level design in Shadow is arguably improved over Heroes. They're just mediocre and filled with poor, momentum killing gimmicks and design.
Black Knight and 06 are irredeemable dumpster fires, so any actual comparison to those (for any games) shouldn't be taken very seriously.
I made Nibroc.Rock uncomfortable today.
In other news, it is/was Naganuma's B-Day.
Make sure to send him some love!
In other news, it is/was Naganuma's B-Day.
Make sure to send him some love!
Controls are one of my major gripes with Heroes. I spent about an hour just trying to finish the canyon stages, and now I get to this boss and he is annoying as all heck. These bottomless pits and their frequency makes me want to do something vicious and evil to any who worked on this and agreed that it is some good level design.
I think I'll just go about charging up the special attack then damage it with it when I am in range, but I'll get to that later. For now I'ma play something else to take my mind off of it @_@
I think I'll just go about charging up the special attack then damage it with it when I am in range, but I'll get to that later. For now I'ma play something else to take my mind off of it @_@
How much does it cost more or less to keep up with these? Like per month or to read each issue so far
If you're just interested in reading it (and not collecting variant covers or anything crazy), each issue is only $3.99, and there's currently 4 issues out, with new ones releasing monthly.
I'd suggest Comixology for easy digital reading.
Might as well jump into the comics now before they inevitably become a mess of original characters.
That's definitely better than every other Sonic R cover I've heard. Good performances with the instruments, the vocalists are good, good mastering
Most Sonic R covers have one of those things, but never all three
Most Sonic R covers have one of those things, but never all three
Cover or not, official or not, I still find that the generations in-game (not album) version of it is the best vocal Sonic R song not in the original game.
The Saturn promo audio at the beginning just makes it for me.
The Saturn promo audio at the beginning just makes it for me.
Many local comic shops offer perks for subscriptions (which is known as the pull), like a certain percentage off, or a free bag and board. Support your local independent shop and economy by finding your local comic shop. Play yours cards right and you should be able to get all 5 issues by the end of this month for around 21 bucks after taxes with store discounts.
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I'm sorry guys but I can't go on
THese bottomless pits
These bloody BOTTOMLESS PITS
Have made me quit Sonic Heroes
I can't take anymore of this uninspired level design, and these lame ass controls and these needlessly lengthy stages that should've been cleared 2-3 minutes ago AT LEAST
Sonic Heroes is a mess of a game to me; good ideas, bad execution that would be much improved with a remake or some such. The level up mechanic is terribad and the fact it resets if you lose a life is utter trash.
THese bottomless pits
These bloody BOTTOMLESS PITS
Have made me quit Sonic Heroes
I can't take anymore of this uninspired level design, and these lame ass controls and these needlessly lengthy stages that should've been cleared 2-3 minutes ago AT LEAST
Sonic Heroes is a mess of a game to me; good ideas, bad execution that would be much improved with a remake or some such. The level up mechanic is terribad and the fact it resets if you lose a life is utter trash.
You should play Shadow now, you'll learn to appreciate it more as it is better than heroes in some respects.
Yeah put me in the boat of people that never quite understood the ire surrounding Heroes. Like any other game, once you gelled with the controls it always played as a pretty enjoyable time. I really respect the imagination behind levels like Casino Park and Bingo Highway, even if they're home to some of the game's undoubtedly egregious moments. And despite the length of some later levels I think the moment-to-moment gameplay was usually paced pretty well in terms of keeping you moving and engaged. Like Lost World it's a game that I wish had a direct sequel that explored its core concept with a bit more polish overall, but unlike Lost World the experience there now utilizes it fairly well in terms of what and how often it asks you to use it.
My biggest gripe with the game is that I played it for years on the PS2 nonstop before footage of the Gamecube version made me see the light and I felt like someone went back in time and stole a middle school's worth of lunch money from my pocket.
This just isn't right.
Also Redhead On Moped I can't help but as if that was you in the IDW #2 Cover B shirt.
My biggest gripe with the game is that I played it for years on the PS2 nonstop before footage of the Gamecube version made me see the light and I felt like someone went back in time and stole a middle school's worth of lunch money from my pocket.
This just isn't right.
Also Redhead On Moped I can't help but as if that was you in the IDW #2 Cover B shirt.
