HitcherFL

Member
Nov 3, 2023
299
For all we complain about the quest for infinite growth, it's reporting like this that drives it. You have a situation where the figures are actually good and the biggest issue, profit margins, has improved, but because there's a way to report the numbers in a factual way that looks bad on first glance then it almost doesn't matter what the context is. The only way around that is for every line to keep going up forever, which is utterly impossible.
 

bitcloudrzr

Banned
May 31, 2018
14,468
Say they meet their guidelines the trajectory would be 18m, 15m, 11m assuming a conservative approach to pricing that doesn't induce a loss per console flood the market approach from their head office. So probably a top out at 100m-105m sounds more likely? Hard thing to peg is the pro and how that affects the market. If people are reselling their OG consoles on marketplace to buy a pro that's still not a "sale" Sony can bank on a spreadsheet outside the pro but it would be a new entrant to the ps5 ecosystem which will be good for software and services

Buuuutt there also a world where I see Sony making this gen run a little longer because it really feels like the Covid years were a constraint on the whole market in product availability and the ability to do that 299 slim special you usually see in year 4/5. Maybe they run an extra year or two? Then I could see them getting above 120m
The Pro did not seem to slow down sales last gen, and it also grew from 20% to around 25% by the end of the system's life. There could be some juice left with a higher end sku.

Yup, that should really be the new permanent MSRP instead of a limited-time promotion. From what I can see Best Buy only has open-box versions of the bundles still in stock, at least on their website.
Yep it is more than time to do that, although I could see them making that push when the Pro comes out. I still see the bundle for $399 with open box for $387 in the website.
 

score01

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,722
29% drop without context would be alarming - but 20 million sold a year is a decent quantity?
 

Super

Studied the Buster Sword
Member
Jan 29, 2022
7,473
Say they meet their guidelines the trajectory would be 18m, 15m, 11m assuming a conservative approach to pricing that doesn't induce a loss per console flood the market approach from their head office. So probably a top out at 100m-105m sounds more likely? Hard thing to peg is the pro and how that affects the market. If people are reselling their OG consoles on marketplace to buy a pro that's still not a "sale" Sony can bank on a spreadsheet outside the pro but it would be a new entrant to the ps5 ecosystem which will be good for software and services

Buuuutt there also a world where I see Sony making this gen run a little longer because it really feels like the Covid years were a constraint on the whole market in product availability and the ability to do that 299 slim special you usually see in year 4/5. Maybe they run an extra year or two? Then I could see them getting above 120m

Yeah you were talking about the "mythic" run of releases from 2017 to 2020, PS5 looks to be gearing up for that currently with comments from Totoki saying FY25 and FY26 will see the release of tentpole titles.

GTA 6 will be a big boost to PS5 and Xbox Series that will reach a mainstream audience much more than COD marketing. We also don't know how Switch 2 with better performance and 3rd party support will affect PS/Xbox Series. PC is getting more attractive too. Obviously a price drop is absolutely crucial. 800K behind PS4 that had a price drop with a cheap slim at €250 and PS4 Pro at €350 isn't terrible.
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,787
The only way around that is for every line to keep going up forever, which is utterly impossible.

Or Sony could just sell the number of consoles they tell their shareholders they expect to sell?

A key issue here is Sony not hitting their (revised!) projections, which are numbers that Sony themselves set, so turning it into some sort of thing about people unfairly expecting infinite growth is kind of missing the point. This isn't about anyone putting any of that on Sony. This is about Sony not hitting Sony's numbers.

A company can and should expect to take some heat for failing to meet its sales projections. That is not a bad thing, even if it's a company that Era likes.
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,453
29% drop without context would be alarming - but 20 million sold a year is a decent quantity?

Yeah it's good and a record for PS. (edit: I think, at least higher than any year from PS4, not sure about PS2)

Not only that but 4.5M sold this quarter is massive. A drop was inevitable because PS5 had the best Q4 of every console ever last year (6.3M) due to stock issues finally being solved.

To give some context 4.5M this Q4 is above every Q4 of PS4 by more than a million, and also better than all Q4 from Switch with the exception of FY21 (pandemic peak year) where they sold 4.7M.
 

Knight613

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,169
San Francisco
Or Sony could just sell the number of consoles they tell their shareholders they expect to sell?

A key issue here is Sony not hitting their (revised!) projections, which are numbers that Sony themselves set, so turning it into some sort of thing about people unfairly expecting infinite growth is kind of missing the point. This isn't about anyone putting any of that on Sony. This is about Sony not hitting Sony's numbers.

A company can and should expect to take some heat for failing to meet its sales projections. That is not a bad thing, even if it's a company that Era likes.
As it turns out, sales projections are actually pretty hard and most companies don't even hit within 10% of their projections let alone being 100% right.
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,789
Or Sony could just sell the number of consoles they tell their shareholders they expect to sell?

A key issue here is Sony not hitting their (revised!) projections, which are numbers that Sony themselves set, so turning it into some sort of thing about infinite growth is kind of missing the point. This isn't about anyone putting any of that on Sony. This is about Sony not hitting Sony's numbers.

A company can and should expect to take some heat for failing to meet its sales projections. That is not a bad thing, even if it's a company that Era likes.
I don't think the key issue is Sony missing their number by .2m

The headliner is the 29 percent decrease which, of course, sounds bad. The report is actually pretty solid though.
 

HitcherFL

Member
Nov 3, 2023
299
Or Sony could just sell the number of consoles they tell their shareholders they expect to sell?

A key issue here is Sony not hitting their (revised!) projections, which are numbers that Sony themselves set, so turning it into some sort of thing about infinite growth is kind of missing the point. This isn't about anyone putting any of that on Sony. This is about Sony not hitting Sony's numbers.

A company can and should expect to take some heat for failing to meet its sales projections. That is not a bad thing, even if it's a company that Era likes.
It barely missed it though, and it was still a huge number of consoles. There's ways of framing things and leading with what appears to be sharp hardware decline with no context and only mentioning the elements that can be seen as negative gives an impression that runs contrary to the figures. The actual situation is they were very good results but could have been a bit better and barely not quite as good as hoped. If you report that in a way that gives the impression it was awful then that's an issue with the reporting.
 

Doctor Avatar

Banned
Jan 10, 2019
2,666
It would be nice if people stopped pretending the issues that are very unique to Xbox and also impacting Sony and Nintendo. Xbox Series isn't doing poorly because consoles are dying, it's doing poorly because MS didn't put out an appealing console.

#sonytoo is really funny tbh.

I mean Sony just sold 20.8 consoles in one year. Total Series sales are what, 25-28 million? Pretending that Sony and MS are in even remotely comparable situations is a fantasy.

PS5 is going to outsell PS4 thanks to GTAVI. Switch may well be the best selling console of all time. But of course the "console industry is dying".
 

Rouk'

Member
Jan 10, 2018
8,243
PlayStation 5 Loses Shine With Shipments Missing Target

With few attractive titles for the holiday shopping season and shipments falling short of the company's targets, doubts are growing whether Sony Co.'s PS5 can ever become a mass-market product.

When the device debuted in 2020, it was classic Sony— a new powerful machine that broke the limits of video games. The PS5 was billed as a worthy successor to the PS2, Sony's record-breaking console.

So far, the PS5 has struggled to find customers beyond a core fan base. The PS5 failed to reach 60 million unit shipments by March, short of Sony's initial target of 63.5 million.

After cramming its best franchises — Spider-Man, God of War and Final Fantasy — into the first few years, the Tokyo-based company is left with fewer games to show off this year, hurting hardware sales. Virtual Reality headset introduced in February 2023, called PlayStation VR2 , have mostly failed to expand interest beyond those who were already planning to pick up a PS5.


"All great consoles need a great fourth year, and Sony hasn't delivered one for the PS5," said Cornelio Ash, an analyst at William O'Neil & Co. in Los Angeles. "Investors thought over five years they could sell maybe 90 million units. But after this year, that's looking pretty much impossible."

Sony declined to comment on the forecast or plans for the PS5.

The holiday quarter historically accounts for about half of the game maker's sales, and analysts have been reducing their full-year estimates for operating profit and revenue since March. Sony shares have dropped about 22 percent since a January peak, wiping out more than $30 billion in market value. The drop was initially driven by short-selling hedge funds, but recent declines have been fueled by existing shareholders, according to data from Markit Securities.

"The stock is heading back to the level when the PS5 was revealed, which doesn't say great things about its long-term prospects," Ash said. Even so, 20 out of 23 analysts tracked by Bloomberg continue to recommend buying shares.


"2023 was a reality check and brought lofty expectations back down to Earth," said Michael Pachter, an analyst at Wedbush Securities Inc. "The PS5 is great, but is very expensive."

That opens the possibility of price cuts. History suggests reductions will have to be aggressive in order to work. Sales of the PS3 picked up only after prices were slashed by 100$ percent not even a year after launch, but the Vita didn't recover even after Nintendo dropped the price by about 20 percent two years after release.

"I don't see sales growing unless the price is reduced to below $350," Pachter said, indicating a 33 percent cut from the PS5's current price.

Another possibility is the introduction of different hardware versions. Credit Suisse Group AG sees "a strong likelihood" that new PS5 models will go on sale as soon as next year. "Any announcement to this effect would likely come before mid-2024, possibly as early as the next management policy briefing" analysts including Hanako Takahashi wrote in a report last week.

Apart from potential price cuts and new models, the other key to regaining momentum will be new games. PS5 is gettting big releases this year, including an Elden Ring DLC and a Star Wars title. Whether that can broaden the install base beyond core gamers remains to be seen. Tellingly, executives have stopped comparing the PS5 to the PS2 during investor meetings in recent months.


With hardware shipments missing the fiscal-year target, executives will face tough questions on how they plan to regain lost momentum. That could open up possibilities for bigger changes to the platform next year.

"The PlayStation 5 excitement has rapidly declined, " Ash said. "Unless there's significant change or something else new, the PS5 story has been exhausted."
 

Knight613

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,169
San Francisco
I don't think the key issue is Sony missing their number by .2m

The headliner is the 29 percent decrease which, of course, sounds bad. The report is actually pretty solid though.
The real telling part of the tweet which deserves to be made fun of, even if it is true, is that being down 29% YOY is probably something Sony themselves forecasted.

Like if they hit 21 million instead of 20.8 million, Tom Warren probably put "PS5 sales are down 28% YOY" instead. When it's like...yes that is true, but it's also not really relevant except to make it sound worse than it actually is.
 

Red Kong XIX

Member
Oct 11, 2020
8,616
PlayStation 5 Loses Shine With Shipments Missing Target

With few attractive titles for the holiday shopping season and shipments falling short of the company's targets, doubts are growing whether Sony Co.'s PS5 can ever become a mass-market product.

When the device debuted in 2020, it was classic Sony— a new powerful machine that broke the limits of video games. The PS5 was billed as a worthy successor to the PS2, Sony's record-breaking console.

So far, the PS5 has struggled to find customers beyond a core fan base. The PS5 failed to reach 60 million unit shipments by March, short of Sony's initial target of 63.5 million.

After cramming its best franchises — Spider-Man, God of War and Final Fantasy — into the first few years, the Tokyo-based company is left with fewer games to show off this year, hurting hardware sales. Virtual Reality headset introduced in February 2023, called PlayStation VR2 , have mostly failed to expand interest beyond those who were already planning to pick up a PS5.


"All great consoles need a great fourth year, and Sony hasn't delivered one for the PS5," said Cornelio Ash, an analyst at William O'Neil & Co. in Los Angeles. "Investors thought over five years they could sell maybe 90 million units. But after this year, that's looking pretty much impossible."

Sony declined to comment on the forecast or plans for the PS5.

The holiday quarter historically accounts for about half of the game maker's sales, and analysts have been reducing their full-year estimates for operating profit and revenue since March. Sony shares have dropped about 22 percent since a January peak, wiping out more than $30 billion in market value. The drop was initially driven by short-selling hedge funds, but recent declines have been fueled by existing shareholders, according to data from Markit Securities.

"The stock is heading back to the level when the PS5 was revealed, which doesn't say great things about its long-term prospects," Ash said. Even so, 20 out of 23 analysts tracked by Bloomberg continue to recommend buying shares.


"2023 was a reality check and brought lofty expectations back down to Earth," said Michael Pachter, an analyst at Wedbush Securities Inc. "The PS5 is great, but is very expensive."

That opens the possibility of price cuts. History suggests reductions will have to be aggressive in order to work. Sales of the PS3 picked up only after prices were slashed by 100$ percent not even a year after launch, but the Vita didn't recover even after Nintendo dropped the price by about 20 percent two years after release.

"I don't see sales growing unless the price is reduced to below $350," Pachter said, indicating a 33 percent cut from the PS5's current price.

Another possibility is the introduction of different hardware versions. Credit Suisse Group AG sees "a strong likelihood" that new PS5 models will go on sale as soon as next year. "Any announcement to this effect would likely come before mid-2024, possibly as early as the next management policy briefing" analysts including Hanako Takahashi wrote in a report last week.

Apart from potential price cuts and new models, the other key to regaining momentum will be new games. PS5 is gettting big releases this year, including an Elden Ring DLC and a Star Wars title. Whether that can broaden the install base beyond core gamers remains to be seen. Tellingly, executives have stopped comparing the PS5 to the PS2 during investor meetings in recent months.


With hardware shipments missing the fiscal-year target, executives will face tough questions on how they plan to regain lost momentum. That could open up possibilities for bigger changes to the platform next year.

"The PlayStation 5 excitement has rapidly declined, " Ash said. "Unless there's significant change or something else new, the PS5 story has been exhausted."
lol good one
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,567
It barely missed it though, and it was still a huge number of consoles. There's ways of framing things and leading with what appears to be sharp hardware decline with no context and only mentioning the elements that can be seen as negative gives an impression that runs contrary to the figures. The actual situation is they were very good results but could have been a bit better and barely not quite as good as hoped. If you report that in a way that gives the impression it was awful then that's an issue with the reporting.

It barely missed 20.8m but the rub there is that's only the number they said in February 2024. This time last year, they had projected 25m for the FY and had to revise it downwards because things already went sideways and as it turns out, they were going to fall 4m+ short of their targets they'd expected for the year.
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,787
As it turns out, sales projections are actually pretty hard and most companies don't even hit within 10% of their projections let alone being 100% right.

Missing (or ignoring) a little bit of context on how this was a revised forecast that they missed, and companies really want their revised forecast to be a lay-up, because revising it and then failing to hit even that is not a good look. Also, not sure where the condescending attitude is coming from? Chill.

The original sales projection, set by Sony, for this FY was 25M units. Sony later revised it substantially to 21M and ended up selling 20.8. That is going to be something that commentators are going to notice, and they're not wrong to notice it.
 

NediarPT88

Member
Oct 29, 2017
15,453
PlayStation 5 Loses Shine With Shipments Missing Target

With few attractive titles for the holiday shopping season and shipments falling short of the company's targets, doubts are growing whether Sony Co.'s PS5 can ever become a mass-market product.

When the device debuted in 2020, it was classic Sony— a new powerful machine that broke the limits of video games. The PS5 was billed as a worthy successor to the PS2, Sony's record-breaking console.

So far, the PS5 has struggled to find customers beyond a core fan base. The PS5 failed to reach 60 million unit shipments by March, short of Sony's initial target of 63.5 million.

After cramming its best franchises — Spider-Man, God of War and Final Fantasy — into the first few years, the Tokyo-based company is left with fewer games to show off this year, hurting hardware sales. Virtual Reality headset introduced in February 2023, called PlayStation VR2 , have mostly failed to expand interest beyond those who were already planning to pick up a PS5.


"All great consoles need a great fourth year, and Sony hasn't delivered one for the PS5," said Cornelio Ash, an analyst at William O'Neil & Co. in Los Angeles. "Investors thought over five years they could sell maybe 90 million units. But after this year, that's looking pretty much impossible."

Sony declined to comment on the forecast or plans for the PS5.

The holiday quarter historically accounts for about half of the game maker's sales, and analysts have been reducing their full-year estimates for operating profit and revenue since March. Sony shares have dropped about 22 percent since a January peak, wiping out more than $30 billion in market value. The drop was initially driven by short-selling hedge funds, but recent declines have been fueled by existing shareholders, according to data from Markit Securities.

"The stock is heading back to the level when the PS5 was revealed, which doesn't say great things about its long-term prospects," Ash said. Even so, 20 out of 23 analysts tracked by Bloomberg continue to recommend buying shares.


"2023 was a reality check and brought lofty expectations back down to Earth," said Michael Pachter, an analyst at Wedbush Securities Inc. "The PS5 is great, but is very expensive."

That opens the possibility of price cuts. History suggests reductions will have to be aggressive in order to work. Sales of the PS3 picked up only after prices were slashed by 100$ percent not even a year after launch, but the Vita didn't recover even after Nintendo dropped the price by about 20 percent two years after release.

"I don't see sales growing unless the price is reduced to below $350," Pachter said, indicating a 33 percent cut from the PS5's current price.

Another possibility is the introduction of different hardware versions. Credit Suisse Group AG sees "a strong likelihood" that new PS5 models will go on sale as soon as next year. "Any announcement to this effect would likely come before mid-2024, possibly as early as the next management policy briefing" analysts including Hanako Takahashi wrote in a report last week.

Apart from potential price cuts and new models, the other key to regaining momentum will be new games. PS5 is gettting big releases this year, including an Elden Ring DLC and a Star Wars title. Whether that can broaden the install base beyond core gamers remains to be seen. Tellingly, executives have stopped comparing the PS5 to the PS2 during investor meetings in recent months.


With hardware shipments missing the fiscal-year target, executives will face tough questions on how they plan to regain lost momentum. That could open up possibilities for bigger changes to the platform next year.

"The PlayStation 5 excitement has rapidly declined, " Ash said. "Unless there's significant change or something else new, the PS5 story has been exhausted."

Well that certainly aged poorly lol
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,789
The real telling part of the tweet which deserves to be made fun of, even if it is true, is that being down 29% YOY is probably something Sony themselves forecasted.

Like if they hit 21 million instead of 20.8 million, Tom Warren probably put "PS5 sales are down 28% YOY" instead. When it's like...yes that is true, but it's also not really relevant except to make it sound worse than it actually is.
Yeah, PS5 had a crazy fiscal year the one before this. Everyone should have accounted for that. Growth was always going to be difficult.

Missing (or ignoring) a little bit of context on how this was a revised forecast that they missed, and companies really want their revised forecast to be a lay-up, because revising it and then failing to hit even that is not a good look. Also, not sure where the condescending attitude is coming from? Chill.

The original sales projection, set by Sony, for this FY was 25M units. Sony later revised it substantially to 21M and ended up selling 20.8. That is going to be something that commentators are going to notice, and they're not wrong to notice it.
Sure, but the poster you quoted was talking about the YoY percentage being the focal point. Sony missed their revised target by under a percent, that's generally considered within the margin or error and never really a cause for concern among shareholders. The company has to be granted some margin of error here.
 

Doctor Avatar

Banned
Jan 10, 2019
2,666
PlayStation 5 Loses Shine With Shipments Missing Target

With few attractive titles for the holiday shopping season and shipments falling short of the company's targets, doubts are growing whether Sony Co.'s PS5 can ever become a mass-market product.

When the device debuted in 2020, it was classic Sony— a new powerful machine that broke the limits of video games. The PS5 was billed as a worthy successor to the PS2, Sony's record-breaking console.

So far, the PS5 has struggled to find customers beyond a core fan base. The PS5 failed to reach 60 million unit shipments by March, short of Sony's initial target of 63.5 million.

After cramming its best franchises — Spider-Man, God of War and Final Fantasy — into the first few years, the Tokyo-based company is left with fewer games to show off this year, hurting hardware sales. Virtual Reality headset introduced in February 2023, called PlayStation VR2 , have mostly failed to expand interest beyond those who were already planning to pick up a PS5.


"All great consoles need a great fourth year, and Sony hasn't delivered one for the PS5," said Cornelio Ash, an analyst at William O'Neil & Co. in Los Angeles. "Investors thought over five years they could sell maybe 90 million units. But after this year, that's looking pretty much impossible."

Sony declined to comment on the forecast or plans for the PS5.

The holiday quarter historically accounts for about half of the game maker's sales, and analysts have been reducing their full-year estimates for operating profit and revenue since March. Sony shares have dropped about 22 percent since a January peak, wiping out more than $30 billion in market value. The drop was initially driven by short-selling hedge funds, but recent declines have been fueled by existing shareholders, according to data from Markit Securities.

"The stock is heading back to the level when the PS5 was revealed, which doesn't say great things about its long-term prospects," Ash said. Even so, 20 out of 23 analysts tracked by Bloomberg continue to recommend buying shares.


"2023 was a reality check and brought lofty expectations back down to Earth," said Michael Pachter, an analyst at Wedbush Securities Inc. "The PS5 is great, but is very expensive."

That opens the possibility of price cuts. History suggests reductions will have to be aggressive in order to work. Sales of the PS3 picked up only after prices were slashed by 100$ percent not even a year after launch, but the Vita didn't recover even after Nintendo dropped the price by about 20 percent two years after release.

"I don't see sales growing unless the price is reduced to below $350," Pachter said, indicating a 33 percent cut from the PS5's current price.

Another possibility is the introduction of different hardware versions. Credit Suisse Group AG sees "a strong likelihood" that new PS5 models will go on sale as soon as next year. "Any announcement to this effect would likely come before mid-2024, possibly as early as the next management policy briefing" analysts including Hanako Takahashi wrote in a report last week.

Apart from potential price cuts and new models, the other key to regaining momentum will be new games. PS5 is gettting big releases this year, including an Elden Ring DLC and a Star Wars title. Whether that can broaden the install base beyond core gamers remains to be seen. Tellingly, executives have stopped comparing the PS5 to the PS2 during investor meetings in recent months.


With hardware shipments missing the fiscal-year target, executives will face tough questions on how they plan to regain lost momentum. That could open up possibilities for bigger changes to the platform next year.

"The PlayStation 5 excitement has rapidly declined, " Ash said. "Unless there's significant change or something else new, the PS5 story has been exhausted."

Absolutely amazing.
 

bitcloudrzr

Banned
May 31, 2018
14,468
PlayStation 5 Loses Shine With Shipments Missing Target

With few attractive titles for the holiday shopping season and shipments falling short of the company's targets, doubts are growing whether Sony Co.'s PS5 can ever become a mass-market product.

When the device debuted in 2020, it was classic Sony— a new powerful machine that broke the limits of video games. The PS5 was billed as a worthy successor to the PS2, Sony's record-breaking console.

So far, the PS5 has struggled to find customers beyond a core fan base. The PS5 failed to reach 60 million unit shipments by March, short of Sony's initial target of 63.5 million.

After cramming its best franchises — Spider-Man, God of War and Final Fantasy — into the first few years, the Tokyo-based company is left with fewer games to show off this year, hurting hardware sales. Virtual Reality headset introduced in February 2023, called PlayStation VR2 , have mostly failed to expand interest beyond those who were already planning to pick up a PS5.


"All great consoles need a great fourth year, and Sony hasn't delivered one for the PS5," said Cornelio Ash, an analyst at William O'Neil & Co. in Los Angeles. "Investors thought over five years they could sell maybe 90 million units. But after this year, that's looking pretty much impossible."

Sony declined to comment on the forecast or plans for the PS5.

The holiday quarter historically accounts for about half of the game maker's sales, and analysts have been reducing their full-year estimates for operating profit and revenue since March. Sony shares have dropped about 22 percent since a January peak, wiping out more than $30 billion in market value. The drop was initially driven by short-selling hedge funds, but recent declines have been fueled by existing shareholders, according to data from Markit Securities.

"The stock is heading back to the level when the PS5 was revealed, which doesn't say great things about its long-term prospects," Ash said. Even so, 20 out of 23 analysts tracked by Bloomberg continue to recommend buying shares.


"2023 was a reality check and brought lofty expectations back down to Earth," said Michael Pachter, an analyst at Wedbush Securities Inc. "The PS5 is great, but is very expensive."

That opens the possibility of price cuts. History suggests reductions will have to be aggressive in order to work. Sales of the PS3 picked up only after prices were slashed by 100$ percent not even a year after launch, but the Vita didn't recover even after Nintendo dropped the price by about 20 percent two years after release.

"I don't see sales growing unless the price is reduced to below $350," Pachter said, indicating a 33 percent cut from the PS5's current price.

Another possibility is the introduction of different hardware versions. Credit Suisse Group AG sees "a strong likelihood" that new PS5 models will go on sale as soon as next year. "Any announcement to this effect would likely come before mid-2024, possibly as early as the next management policy briefing" analysts including Hanako Takahashi wrote in a report last week.

Apart from potential price cuts and new models, the other key to regaining momentum will be new games. PS5 is gettting big releases this year, including an Elden Ring DLC and a Star Wars title. Whether that can broaden the install base beyond core gamers remains to be seen. Tellingly, executives have stopped comparing the PS5 to the PS2 during investor meetings in recent months.


With hardware shipments missing the fiscal-year target, executives will face tough questions on how they plan to regain lost momentum. That could open up possibilities for bigger changes to the platform next year.

"The PlayStation 5 excitement has rapidly declined, " Ash said. "Unless there's significant change or something else new, the PS5 story has been exhausted."
ygM0t8P.png
 

Shairi

Member
Aug 27, 2018
8,998
Missing (or ignoring) a little bit of context on how this was a revised forecast that they missed, and companies really want their revised forecast to be a lay-up, because revising it and then failing to hit even that is not a good look. Also, not sure where the condescending attitude is coming from? Chill.

The original sales projection, set by Sony, for this FY was 25M units. Sony later revised it substantially to 21M and ended up selling 20.8. That is going to be something that commentators are going to notice, and they're not wrong to notice it.

Pretending like missing their revised forcast by 200k units is some catastrophe that needs to be dissected and discussed in detail is head scratching.

The market conditions changed, that's why they revised their first forecast and they were pretty spot on with their new one.
 

HitcherFL

Member
Nov 3, 2023
299
It barely missed 20.8m but the rub there is that's only the number they said in February 2024. This time last year, they had projected 25m for the FY and had to revise it downwards because things already went sideways and as it turns out, they were going to fall 4m+ short of their targets they'd expected for the year.
25 million was an astronomically high target based on an optimistic forecast of the market at the time. The point of revising it is to reset expectations when the conditions change and in the end was pretty much spot on.

Again, it's strong numbers, the worst to be said is they weren't as overwhelmingly strong as previously anticipated, but to frame it as actually bad is a huge misrepresentation. The bigger issue is flagging hardware decline with no context regardless.
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,567
Sure, but the poster you quoted was talking about the YoY percentage being the focal point. Sony missed their revised target by under a percent, that's generally considered within the margin or error and never really a cause for concern among shareholders. The company has to be granted some margin of error here.

Purely from the perspective of shareholders, it's certainly going to be an uphill battle to convince people to stay invested in a company whose product is now in the declining sales period of consoles, who have significantly missed their original target and then fell slightly short of their revision only a month and half before the quarter ended, making their current estimate for the new year difficult to put much weight behind, right before their biggest competition in the hardware space, coming off an incredible success are about to go in on new hardware.
 
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EagleClaw

Member
Dec 31, 2018
11,029
That x post really sounds like Playstation is done, while it is the best year of PS5.
I guess we will see in the next years if Playstation will be still a thing, lol.
 

NotLiquid

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,004
25M was an unreasonable estimate, 21M also felt like a tall order given Sony to my knowledge are usually not Q4 favored. Surprised that they got close though, wonder whether Helldivers 2 helped save them and drove console adoption.
 

Knight613

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,169
San Francisco
25M was an unreasonable estimate, 21M also felt like a tall order given Sony to my knowledge are usually not Q4 favored. Surprised that they got close though, wonder whether Helldivers 2 helped save them.
I remember when they first estimated 25 million and everyone here was wondering what they were smoking. In the end, the PS5 still sold more in this fiscal year than the PS4 ever did in a single fiscal year. Even if they missed projections by 200k. And that's without official price drops in most of the world.
 

Ganondolf

Member
Jan 5, 2018
1,088
20.8 is a really good figure but that initial estimate of 25m was way off. 18m is like a 15% from yoy, which seems pretty normal (I have not checked).

I'm thinking it's looking at 105-110m lifetime which is a decent number.
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,787
Pretending like missing their revised forcast by 200k units is some catastrophe that needs to be dissected and discussed in detail is head scratching.

The market conditions changed, that's why they revised their first forecast and they were pretty spot on with their new one.
Where did I say it was a catastrophe? Jesus Christ.

All my original point was that when a company fails to meet their sales forecasts, that's something commentators are going to notice, and that's appropriate and not them pushing some sort of weird desire for infinite growth onto the company. They're judging the company's performance using the metrics the company itself is providing. If that's not fair, what is?
 

Kazuma Kiryu

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,563
I remember when they first estimated 25 million and everyone here was wondering what they were smoking. In the end, the PS5 still sold more in this fiscal year than the PS4 ever did in a single fiscal year. Even if they missed projections by 200k. And that's without official price drops in most of the world.

Awful results 🤷
 

Renna Hazel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,789
Purely from the perspective of shareholders, it's certainly going to be an uphill battle to convince people to stay invested in a company whose product is now in the declining sales period of consoles, who have significantly missed their original target and even fell short of their revision only a month and half before the quarter ended, making their current estimate for the new year difficult to put much weight behind, right before their biggest competition in the hardware space, coming off an incredible success are about to go in on new hardware.
This is a battle console manufacturers have to face every console, there is a point of decline when the hardware wont sell as much as the previous years. Sony has managed this several times now, so I'm sure it will be fine. I'm sure the stock will increase and decrease as always.

PS5 surely has some issues to contend with that should make an investor weary, but this report had a lot of decent news in it as well. If I were Sony, I would be worried about Nintendo, as you mentioned. Might steal a lot of their shine.
 

LinkStrikesBack

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,567
I remember when they first estimated 25 million and everyone here was wondering what they were smoking. In the end, the PS5 still sold more in this fiscal year than the PS4 ever did in a single fiscal year. Even if they missed projections by 200k. And that's without official price drops in most of the world.

Isn't the context there that the PS4 never had the same production issues facing PS5 and that this is the first financial year where it's really been available there the whole time?

Maybe my sense of time is shot, but it should be kept in context.
 

VariantX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,976
Columbia, SC
At this point the "slim" consoles would have ready to come out at a lower price point to maintain sales momentum but those haven't really been a thing for two generations for MS/Sony. Still a ton of the things have sold anyway even at $500. That's a really aggressive forecast.
 
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Knight613

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,169
San Francisco
Isn't the context there that the PS4 never had the same production issues facing PS5 and that this is the first financial year where it's really been available there the whole time?

Maybe my sense of time is shot, but it should be kept in context.
I had thought it was already readily available last fiscal year. When they forecasted 18 million but actually sold 19.1 million. I could be wrong though. I haven't really paid attention to availability in a long time.
 

HitcherFL

Member
Nov 3, 2023
299
Where did I say it was a catastrophe? Jesus Christ.

All my original point was that when a company fails to meet their sales forecasts, that's something commentators are going to notice, and that's appropriate and not them pushing some sort of weird desire for infinite growth onto the company. They're judging the company's performance using the metrics the company itself is providing. If that's not fair, what is?
All my original point was that the reason there's a pressure for infinite growth is because if there's any way to frame things in a negative light and some part of the media chooses to do that, then it can give a different impression to the reality. The only way to avoid a tweet like this is to have every metric improve which is impossible, and leads to pressure that may not actually be healthy long term.

I never said it's inappropriate to note whether sales forecasts are met. Frankly the bigger factor was the YoY decline being highlighted front and centre and you seemed to zoom in on the forecast in isolation for some reason. My point is that it's more responsible, if you must give a basic overview in a tweet, to reflect the overall tone of the results rather than present a skewed version that looks bad at a glance, especially in the current climate where the most significant risk would be to the livelihoods of people working within the business. You just seem to be arguing against a compleyely different point.
 

Kratos2098

Member
Feb 18, 2022
2,055
Console sales aren't surpassing their predecessors

The switch 2 will sell 100 m which is fine but it won't be beating the switch imo

I'm guessing Xbox series top out at 40-50m and Sony PlayStation 5 top at 80-90m, maybe 100m if people really dig the pro and upgrade their base consoles
You really see some of the worst takes on here. PS5 is forecast to be at 78 million by this time next year. You then think it will only sell another 2-12 million in the years following that when heavy hitters like GTA6, the next Naughty Dog game, Santa Monica's next game, etc will be hitting. LMAO.

Also with the way Xbox sales have been declining more and more I doubt very seriously they hit 50 million. Don't even think they are at 30 million
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,432
It would be nice if people stopped pretending the issues that are very unique to Xbox and also impacting Sony and Nintendo. Xbox Series isn't doing poorly because consoles are dying, it's doing poorly because MS didn't put out an appealing console.

But even the biggest fanboys can't possibly think PS5 is topping out at 90m based on all the info we have, the world would have to end or something for that to happen.

And it would be good that the issues facing the console market as a whole isn't being handwaved away because Xbox has it worse.
If this is peak year, PS5 will not overtake the PS4 launch aligned, they are already behind.
I don't think GTA6 will have such a massive impact that it will "save" the console sales. Especially if it is delayed any further. It will be big, but people seem to think the 195 million sales accumulated over two decades will all translate into most buyers getting it day 1 on Playstation.
 

Gavalanche

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 21, 2021
18,569
And it would be good that the issues facing the console market as a whole isn't being handwaved away because Xbox has it worse.
If this is peak year, PS5 will not overtake the PS4 launch aligned, they are already behind.
I don't think GTA6 will have such a massive impact that it will "save" the console sales. Especially if it is delayed any further. It will be big, but people seem to think the 195 million sales accumulated over two decades will all translate into most buyers getting it day 1 on Playstation.

GTA 6 is going to sell an absolute shit load of consoles because there is no guarantee when that is coming to PC. It is the most popular game in history and even if it sells a percentage of what GTA 5 did, it will piss out consoles. I don't think people understand the tidal wave that is coming.