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gofreak

Member
Oct 26, 2017
7,741
Edit - for clarity, the thread title is not mine, and I feel it's a bit clickbaity. He was placing the console business in-context of the entire gaming pie... not suggesting it was 'small' in absolute terms. His follow-on comments affirm the importance of consoles for themselves and the 'core gamer'.

Transcribed from the Corporate Strategy presentation held today: https://www.irwebmeeting.com/sony/fast/20190521/k7a24dmc/strategy2019_02_en/index.html

The translation, particularly on the last answer, was a bit wonky at times.

Q: Concerning your collaboration with Microsoft, what is the likely size of money, and the size of the business? For instance, in the game business, how much would it account for in terms of the size of pie? In concluding such MoU, probably the numbers are not technically there yet, but in terms of size of business, what is your anticipation or forecast of the likely size of operation?

A: Thank you for the question. On our collaboration with Microsoft, and the likely size of it we have in mind, at this point in time in order to have a broader and deeper discussion we have signed a MoU. Over the long term the cloud and streaming services trend will mature, but it is very difficult to ascertain the timeline. We've been working with streaming services over the last 5 years, and there are various difficult aspects. The latency of network for one. Some examples I could cite, for instance, the typical means of minimising latency is placement of servers on the edge closer to users - but moving servers closer to one group of users can mean increasing latency for another group of users. And also, there will be an encoding process at the very end, and how we can minimise the time for compression is another challenge. And also, in order to make it a viable business, what would be the business model? Our service is a subscription model now, but depending on the game...one game could be played for 50 hours or 100 hours, and for someone playing one game like this, what is the advantage of a subscription service per month, the all-you-can-play type of model? So in terms of technology and services, there are various aspects we would like to look into with Microsoft going forward, especially in terms of streaming solutions. We would like to proceed through collaboration. On our side, Katsumoto next to me (SVP, Officer in charge of R&D), will be leading the initiative, and continue to carry out discussions.

Q: You have talked about the partnership with Microsoft, in the gaming industry which is a very important business for you. As you look at the future of the
game industry, the importance of the console business, what is your outlook for the importance of that?


A: As we speak, we provide, as I said, the immersive business and experience is something we would like to continue to place importance on. If you look at the game industry as a whole, the console market is not a major market, rather it's a niche market, if you will. But for core gamers, immersive experiences are something we would like to value. In this respect, for the time being, the console as something that brings about computing functionality to the users is very important, but on the other hand, technology will progress, and so as I said today, the Remote Play and PlayStation Now, the streaming services will be worked on in parallel, that is what we are doing at this moment.

Q: Earlier you talked about immersive and seamless. For the last several years, Sony has collected data, user engagement metrics (ARPU) - but what is the trend, is it uptrending or in stalemate? For the next 3 years, when we look at the next generation console, the cloud environment, if we take these into consideration, what are the drivers of growth? Is it ARPU? Or MAU? Or both? If you could share with us the recent situations, and your outlook for the next 3 to 5 years, please share with us your outlook on the growth potential of the gaming business.

A: Thank you for your question on the game business. You mentioned user engagement, that is the most important thing. There are several ways to measure this. At Sony, MAU is something we focus on as important. The contact points of the users, and depth of such contacts is important - how much time is this user using, how much money is he or she spending. Depth and width of the touch point with the user is so important. For the last several years it has been increasing upward quite quickly. The asset base we have now, that is something we hold dear. In the next generation console, that remains unchanged. In that sense, the community of interest exists even now, but we would like to refine and improve the community of interest, and we will take measures to improve that. Discussions are going on within management of SIE now.

Q: Just the other day you had a partnership announced with Microsoft. When it comes to collaboration, your stance as a whole company, you are getting more active in terms of collaboration, is this correct? And, with respect to technology, content, user expansion in various ways, I think you are working on collaboration, but which field are you going to focus on with respect to the expansion of existing businesses and leading to new businesses?

A: Well, [not just with regard] to Microsoft, but for the company, I have discussed with Mr Katsumoto sitting next to me, we would like to expand the range of technology. That is certainly what we are working on, for entertainment and financial services. And also we would like to focus on our strengths, and that is something we are doing aswell. And so, around our strengths, we would like to gather our partners. We alluded to AI, and that is what you can think about in connection to this. Now regarding the tie-up with Microsoft, as was already announced, particularly for streaming services, we are going to collaborate with each other. So <inaudible>, so of course we are going to continue to compete, but when it comes to streaming solutions, in this field collaboration will happen, that will require technology also, investments and partnership with companies would be the most optimal alternative.
 
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zedox

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,219
Good stuff. Been saying consoles are niche, good to hear the CEO say it. Interesting times ahead.
 

Dr. Mario

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,937
Netherlands
Not sure you can call 25% niche in any absolute terms, but if streaming picks up, it will most surely be niche in total market size.

(Not in impact most likely though)
 

Nightengale

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,708
Malaysia
The context of the questioning is on addressing what Sony is doing to 'expand their existing market' - because while they are a major player in gaming, their addressable market is only around 100-150 million gamers, as opposed to the 2 billion gamers across all platforms.

What they are saying is that they will - for the foreseeable future, remain in that niche and that niche is something they value - but they are not blind to long-term market evolution and a need to expand their audience, which is why they are doing investments and partnership into streaming/etc.

Tldr; Sony is questioned/challenged by investors on their business direction on one of their core business ( gaming ) and what they're doing to grow it. Sony's response is the above.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,247
The context of the questioning is on addressing what Sony is doing to 'expand their existing market' - because while they are a major player in gaming, their addressable market is only around 100-150 million gamers, as opposed to the 2 billion gamers across all platforms.

What they are saying is that they will - for the foreseeable future, remain in that niche and that niche is something they value - but they are not blind to long-term market evolution and a need to expand their audience, which is why they are doing investments and partnership into streaming/etc.

This is correct .
Gaming is tens of billions of dollars and a lot of it comes outside the consoles market .
 

KiLAM

Member
Jan 25, 2018
1,610
I think context matters here. They are talking to investors here, and for them ofcourse console gaming is niche compared to say Candy crush and other massive mobile games which makes billions every year.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
Well compared to mobile gaming , console gaming is indeed unfortunately niche .the context of what he said is important here .
 

MrKlaw

Member
Oct 25, 2017
33,165
Not sure you can call 25% niche in any absolute terms, but if streaming picks up, it will most surely be niche in total market size.

(Not in impact most likely though)


But where is your audience?

- Are they people that want great, high budget games but for some reason have never felt the need to buy a console and therefore ignored those games for years?
- Are they people that want to play games on a phone - but then what about needing a controller etc?

I'm worried this ends up diluting things - mobile style race to the bottom in terms of cost, and also in terms of providers needing to fill a catalog of regular releases to keep their 'netflix' funnel full.

Consoles may be niche, but as recent reports have shown, console owners have a v.high value per unit (about $1000 for PS4?). so if you go wide in search of way more users, you have to still efficiently monetise them
 

DixieDean82

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
11,837
He's spot on.

In the grand scheme of things reaching 100 million people is not a lot.

I mean, they were reaching more than that with the PS2.

We have enough evidence at this stage, to say the console market is not going to grow much beyond this point.

It's why these companies are smart to slowly shift to cloud gaming/services, and in the process get rid of the hardware barrier to entry.
 

Nightengale

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,708
Malaysia
Welp, throwing shade at 1/3 of your revenue.
Sounds like Sony has it's own Mattrick.

Are you even reading it right?

the immersive business and experience is something we would like to continue to place importance on.
- Sony/SIE will continue to prioritise $60 console gaming experiences.

If you look at the game industry as a whole, the console market is not a major market, rather it's a niche market if you will. But for core gamers, immersive experiences are something we would like to value.
- Even though mobile gaming is far bigger than console gaming, the style of games for that market is very different from that of core gamers, and we would like to prioritise traditional games over mobile games.

In this respect, for the time being, the console as something that brings about computing functionality to the users is very important.
- We are making the PS5 because console/core gamers value high-performing machines that has the power to deliver AAA games.

but on the other hand, technology will progress and so as I said today, the Remote Play and PlayStation Now, the streaming services will be worked on in parallel, that is what we are doing at this moment.
- But investors! Don't worry, we're also working on services that are aimed at the broader market, so don't start panicking that we are ignoring mobile or non-console gamers.
 

CaviarMeths

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,655
Western Canada
Yeah, I see no problem with their statements here. Of course they'll continue to serve their audience of console gamers, but they also can't ignore market realities and have to try and reach the huge untapped audience that lays outside of the borders of the PS ecosystem. Streaming is going to be a large pillar in the future for any video game company, even a historically very conservative one like Nintendo.
 

Spark

Member
Dec 6, 2017
2,576
The minute streaming services offer better looking AAA games than physical hardware can provide, which will happen, high-end AAA console gaming will take a downswing.
 

Gamer17

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
9,399
Streaming is not going to open up anything. Console gaming is a niche because most people simply aren´t interested in playing traditional games, streaming is not going to change that.
Yup this is how I feel.about it .people/casual mobile players like to play light, easy to play games .streaming assassin Creed oddessy to their mobile doesn't change that as that games doesn't speak to them to begin with as it looks to complex for their liking
 

Morrowbie

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,147
Streaming is not going to open up anything. Console gaming is a niche because most people simply aren´t interested in playing traditional games, streaming is not going to change that.
You don't think there's places in the world where more people would play console games if the cost of entry was lower?
 

jawzpause

Member
Nov 7, 2017
2,258
Incoming people reading thread title and taking it out of context.

He's absolutely right though and streaming will be something big in the future
 

ArmGunar

PlayStatistician
Member
Oct 30, 2017
6,527
The context of the questioning is on addressing what Sony is doing to 'expand their existing market' - because while they are a major player in gaming, their addressable market is only around 100-150 million gamers, as opposed to the 2 billion gamers across all platforms.

What they are saying is that they will - for the foreseeable future, remain in that niche and that niche is something they value - but they are not blind to long-term market evolution and a need to expand their audience, which is why they are doing investments and partnership into streaming/etc.

Tldr; Sony is questioned/challenged by investors on their business direction on one of their core business ( gaming ) and what they're doing to grow it. Sony's response is the above.
Thanks for the context

Yoshida was CFO while Kaz was CEO and they planned together a while back the direction that Sony had to focus on different segment including Gaming, he knows what he does and what he says imo
 

RestEerie

Banned
Aug 20, 2018
13,618
Welp, throwing shade at 1/3 of your revenue.
Sounds like Sony has it's own Mattrick.

numbers don't lie, despite your emotional opinions....

Can mod change the title because it is sure gonna ignite some response from people without reading the entire quote in context with what's being asked.
 

bane833

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
4,530
You don't think there's places in the world where more people would play console games if the cost of entry was lower?
Streaming does not lower the entry cost. You need expensive high speed internet without data caps (not even available in many parts of the world), you need a controller, you need a subscription and you need a device that supports the streaming service.

What do you really need if you want to play on a console? The console itself, games (both can be bought used, same as an old TV which costs basically nothing nowadays) and that´s it. If Sony really wanted to lower the barrier of entry they should release a cheap base console.
 

Neil Howarth

Banned
Mar 20, 2019
150
There is a massive difference and very little overlap between mobile gamers and console gamers. My mom might play Angry birds on her phone but there is zero chance she will ever buy a console
 

sleepr

Banned for misusing pronouns feature
Banned
Oct 30, 2017
2,965
The minute streaming services offer better looking AAA games than physical hardware can provide, which will happen, high-end AAA console gaming will take a downswing.

You don't need to go that far. If they can reduce input lag, improve IQ and have all 3rd party titles available these services will explode in popularity. Then you'll be playing on your old devices with the controller of your choice, no need to buy new hardware from time to time in order to have a better experience.

Honestly I'm looking forward to that future, my games are pretty much all digital and not having to deal with hardware upgrades, OS updates, game updates and such will be amazing.
 
Aug 23, 2018
2,382
Sony partnering with MS is the best outcome for fans of both of their consoles, IMO. It means 3rd party developers (Capcom, Square, Activision, etc) will be able to negotiate streaming rights for their titles with MS to reach platform owners on both devices, which hopefully keeps prices down for consumers.

Might not have scene uniform prices if Sony partnered with AWS or Google
 

Deleted member 40102

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2018
3,420
As much as I support stream gaming , I just really really hope it won't effect ps5 sales, if it does then it only means less 1st party support in the future from sony sadly :(
 

Basarili

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,434
Haarlem
This CEO of Sony is not much into gaming I see. If he talks that much and he doesn't showcase income/profit from other sources beside gaming then he won't be holding that position much longer.
 

Nightengale

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,708
Malaysia
This CEO of Sony is not much into gaming I see. If he talks that much and he doesn't showcase income/profit from other sources beside gaming then he won't be holding that position much longer.

If you bothered to read - what the Sony CEO actually said if that the 'niche console market' is more important to them and that they are going to remain in the business of focusing on the niche core console market instead of shifting their focus/direction for the blue ocean market of mobile/non-console market.
 

Asuka3+1

Alt Account
Banned
Feb 6, 2019
491
The minute streaming services offer better looking AAA games than physical hardware can provide, which will happen, high-end AAA console gaming will take a downswing.
and we go back to Consoles the moment people realize ISP are private corporations too and several parts of USA dont have the structure for High Speed internet, and those that do have data caps..

streaming is a nice idea (on paper) but brings in many limitations that current gaming does not.
 

DrDeckard

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,109
UK
So even sony is wanting the wide reach of streaming and to forego the need of dedicated hardware, to reach a larger audience.
 

Vilam

Member
Oct 27, 2017
5,059
Meh, going to remove my comment after context to the quote was given. Just investor nonsense.
 

nel e nel

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,134
and we go back to Consoles the moment people realize ISP are private corporations too and several parts of USA dont have the structure for High Speed internet, and those that do have data caps..

streaming is a nice idea (on paper) but brings in many limitations that current gaming does not.

Because the gaming market only exists in the US.
 

SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,491
Meh, going to remove my comment after context to the quote was given. Just investor nonsense.

This guy is trying to sell investors on what streaming gaming can be. So telling them that console gaming is a niche is a way to highlight to them just how big streaming gaming can be from a financial standpoint. And that's all he can do at the moment because streaming isn't going to be taking off at that rate anytime soon. He's not going to really be able to show them anything meaty in terms of revenue from streaming for quite some time. It's very much a long game.