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Sony concerned about competition from MS in internal communication, admits its current pillars are outdated, needs to expand [Up: slides real]

I am doing my part

  • Team Real

    Votes: 341 75.6%

  • Team Fake

    Votes: 33 7.3%

  • Team The Only Good Bug, is a Dead Bug

    Votes: 42 9.3%

  • Team Thor

    Votes: 75 16.6%
  • Total voters
    451
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Akita One

Akita One

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,634
User banned (1 week): Console war rhetoric, prior ban for similar behavior
We tried to tell yaw...can't go decades without any multiplayer exclusives, then you wasted hundreds of millions to buy Bungie, who makes a game that edgelord dudebros still play. But hey, good luck with yet another remaster of a single player game you already own. Sony is in big trouble from a market share standpoint.
 
Grakchawwaa

Grakchawwaa

Member
Mar 10, 2022
468
These leaks are like a console war siren. Literally some of the most asinine commentary I've read on this forum yet lol.
 
beebop

beebop

Member
May 30, 2023
1,791
It's going around that these slides are fake. Nobody wants to verify by trawling 1TB of data, but reading those bullet points this doesn't feel like the corporate language or talking points I'd expect to read on these slides.

Also not really sure why this topic would be in an Insomniac leak.
 
Gavalanche

Gavalanche

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 21, 2021
18,159
War95 said:
Legit think they are done for, the GAAS strategy is clearly not working. Time will tell
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I find these kind of views to be pretty crazy. Playstation is earning the most it ever has, is about to break its own record with console shipments, is dominating in close to every facet of gaming. They are nowhere done and won't be for ages. There are large parts of the world where playstation is associated with gaming; nah they are done.

It defies all logic really :P

Akita One said:
We tried to tell yaw...can't go decades without any multiplayer exclusives, then you wasted hundreds of millions to buy Bungie, who makes a game that edgelord dudebros still play. But hey, good luck with yet another remaster of a single player game you already own. Sony is in big trouble from a market share standpoint.
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Their market share is the highest it has ever been.
 
gifyku

gifyku

Member
Aug 17, 2020
2,772
KINGOFSHIBUYA Ltd. said:
These issues dont just press Sony, but probably any other publisher trying to offer value in a market Microsoft has increasing leverage in.

Gamepass is only sustainable for Microsoft because they can afford to throw money at Xbox seemingly forever no matter how much or little the market actually wants it.
The rules of market supply and demand that one stereotypically learns in high school usually doesn't account for a company making a killing in one field, and then being able to fail upwards in another by being able to undercut.
The only issue is having the games to do it, which is why they acquire already popular and successful publishers.
The goal isnt to be a Netflix of games, but rather the Amazon of games.
Sony just has a lot of skin in the game, but any game not sold on gamepass will need to successfully compete against gamepass as a value. Making a shooter probably looks a lot worse to publishers and investors, I'd assume, now that CoD might look free.

Of course, maybe Sony will stay dominant through PlayStation 6, and Microsoft will change course, not seeing Xbox as something worth losing money over, but nobody knows.
Gamepass (and selling Xbox hardware itself) probably loses Microsoft a lot of money, and the layoffs wont offset the big costs of acquisitions
This is a different game than the days of paying Rockstar to keep GTAIV DLC exclusive, or Konami to keep MGS4 exclusive.
I assume there was a meeting like this at a lot of companies this year.
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this is just low level business analysis. Failing upwards, undercutting etc

Companies can and will be willing to take less margins for an extended period of time for some long term strategy. If that doesn't work out, they will pivot.

What is clear is that Sony is not willing to take lesser margins. As a consumer, I fail to see why I should care and cheer on Sony's unwillingness to make lesser profit by couching it in terms of sustainability. That doesn't mean I wont buy Sony products, just like I do buy Nintendo products. It just means as a consumer I have more choice not just in terms of titles but also in terms of price points.

Its not like Sony is Nintendo. Sony has a consumer electronics division that does pretty well in terms of TV and camera sales, a dominant image processing division that makes chips in every iPhone, a huge entertainment business (movies, TV, comics etc.) and soon a car business. Casting them as some weakling compared to Microsoft is not accurate.

As a consumer, gamepass is better for me and for others. I get a lower price of entry, folks on other platforms continue to get most Gamepass games on their platforms (if they get released) outside of true MS first party. Sony's exclusivity deals are worse because it reduces the number of titles available to consumers on other platforms while increasing the price of entry
 
Yerffej

Yerffej

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,895
Kyougar said:
What Market?
The stagnant home console market that hasn't seen userbase growth in 3 generations? Yes, or rather partly, there is still Nintendo.
The gaming market? they are big, but not dominant and they will lose market share every year while the console market stagnates further. They will try to squeeze even more money from their existing userbase which will not help growing the console market. (The argument is always, that Sony is making more money every year, but the reality is, that they find more ways to monetize their existing userbase, and not grow the market)
Mobile absolutely dwarfs Sony.
On PC, dozens of companies either have more revenue or more MAU.
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Yeah…the console market with which they dominate. That the user base hasn't grown much doesn't mean they aren't still on top. Obviously they are trying to work towards diversifying. Worrying about the competition is good. Acting like their days are numbered is kind of hilarious at this point.
 

stormfire

Member
Nov 26, 2018
2,889
stormfire said:
People are saying these are fake. What?


GBtJTLbaMAAkU1q
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View: https://twitter.com/TechNoir_Gamez/status/1737094707199590680
 
gundamkyoukai

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,346
Akita One said:
We tried to tell yaw...can't go decades without any multiplayer exclusives, then you wasted hundreds of millions to buy Bungie, who makes a game that edgelord dudebros still play. But hey, good luck with yet another remaster of a single player game you already own. Sony is in big trouble from a market share standpoint.
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Do you people even look at sales numbers or even pay attention to the industry .
 
Jroc

Jroc

Member
Jun 9, 2018
6,145
Sony really has nothing to worry about.

Their brand power is too strong to ever seriously fall off. People still lined up to buy the PS3 day 1 despite the horrible price and lack of games compared to the highly competitive 360. That generation was the worst case scenario for Sony and they still managed to tie it up or sell slightly more depending on the figures you look at.

Outside of North America gaming is basically synonymous with PlayStation. Nintendo has their own Nintendo market carved out but Microsoft and Sony fight for the same pie.
 

Ratuso

Member
Nov 27, 2021
1,210
War95 said:
Legit think they are done for, the GAAS strategy is clearly not working. Time will tell
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bruh have they even released anything? You know that EA had a huge flop with Anthem and later they found success with Apex. Or Ubisoft's Rainbow Six Siege underperformed but they kept working on the game and it became Ubisoft's first billion dollar game. Like these there are a lot of examples

Making games live services games is HARD.
 
MJForum Poster

MJForum Poster

Member
May 25, 2019
6,053
London
Gavalanche said:
I find these kind of views to be pretty crazy. Playstation is earning the most it ever has, is about to break its own record with console shipments, is dominating in close to every facet of gaming. They are nowhere done and won't be for ages. There are large parts of the world where playstation is associated with gaming; nah they are done.
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I think people are just coming around to the same analysis that Sony seems to be the one platform holder "locked in" to the box under the TV model. Could they disrupt that by making a hybrid PS6 or PS7? Sure. But right now, their budgets for their single player games are growing at an unsustainable pace; their audience wants those single player games because they've gotten used to them over the last decade and therefore pivoting to GaaS is risky; and their competitors are expanding into different form factors and avenues to broaden their addressable market, such as hybrid form factors, PC gaming, cloud gaming, etc.

The addressable console market hasn't changed since 2000, so it's hard to see where they can find the growth to keep up with the escalating budgets for single player games without continuous price hikes on software and services
 
gundamkyoukai

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,346
Ricelord said:
PS2_anim-ventes.gif
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They never get that high again but still have good market share they make way more money .
Like PS4 made way more profit than PS2 if i remember right .

MJForum Poster said:
I think people are just coming around to the same analysis that Sony seems to be the one platform holder "locked in" to the box under the TV model. Could they disrupt that by making a hybrid PS6 or PS7? Sure. But right now, their budgets for their single player games are growing at an unsustainable pace; their audience wants those single player games because they've gotten used to them over the last decade and therefore pivoting to GaaS is risky; and their competitors are expanding into different form factors and avenues to broaden their addressable market, such as hybrid form factors, PC gaming, cloud gaming, etc.

The addressable console market hasn't changed since 2000, so it's hard to see where they can find the growth to keep up with the escalating budgets for single player games without continuous price hikes on software and services
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Every companies trying differnt thing but some having issues
Like MS hardware sales are no where they wanted to be and cloud and GP has slow down .
Sony have Issues with GaaS , still even Sony have there own cloud service on PC.
Sony console sales most important to them but they have been doing other stuff .
 
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Minthara

Minthara

Freelance Market Director
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
8,141
Montreal
Edit: Ignore the rest of this post, they do seem to be branded and marked as confidential!

These slides don't make a whole lot of sense nor are they branded. Literally anyone with PowerPoint can make these slides.

Internal documents that were this sensitive would likely be tagged as confidential and branded as well.

It's also entirely possible, if it was real, that this was just a presentation someone was working on that they never finished for whatever reason.

People taking these slides as gospel with no external confirmation - boy do I have a bridge to sell you!
 
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giapel

Member
Oct 28, 2017
4,638
Gavalanche said:
Okay, it is the highest it has been since 2007 :P I still doesn't think it changes my point, which was the comment was ridiculous.
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I know, and you're right. It is ridiculous. We're trying to come up with ideas on how Sony should counter Microsoft's rise to dominance as if it's something inevitable. But current trends aren't showing this and people are continually in denial if they think Microsoft has solved this.
 
Son_of_Oden

Son_of_Oden

Member
Feb 27, 2020
667
Kyougar said:
Wouldn't "sustainable" be a completely different meaning than "profitable"?
Something can be sustainable while losing money and not be profitable. (As in "we are within the budget of what we projected and the higher-ups approved"
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That was my initial discussion with the user I quoted. Because "sustainable" can mean any sort of things e.g. subscription growth within projected parameters

But apparently Phil said a year later that it's "profitable" however, I can't find a direct quote only heavily editorialized articles.
 
Zem

Zem

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,988
United Kingdom
the good thing for Sony is that they at least recognise it and are looking into it and planning already. They'll be fine but they can't be so reliant on selling hardware and games on only their console for the long-term. That's one thing MS do have in their favour is they're more split revenue wise with PC, Mobile and their GAAS doing well. All of which Sony are struggling with.
 
Duxxy3

Duxxy3

Member
Oct 27, 2017
21,982
USA
They absolutely need to expand. Outside of Insomniac their studios aren't consistently churning out games. They've struggled with moving to GAAS. They never should have abandoned Japan the way that they did. It's the one area that Microsoft can't buy.

Their slides are probably accurate. 2027 and next gen launch in 2028 are going to be a challenge. Should be fine for the next few years, but the new CEO will have some important decisions to make.

Greent4 said:
So it's real?
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I don't think COD is going anywhere. But all of the marketing will be Xbox branded. It will be available on game pass. They'll probably give all of the incentives and extras to Xbox players. Betas will almost certainly be on Xbox first.

And of course ALL of the old COD games will be on game pass.
 
gundamkyoukai

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,346
Pai Pai Master said:
you think they greenlit those games a couple years ago and they should already be out?
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It seem people think you can just spit out gaas games .
They take time and some will also fail but that the industry .

Duxxy3 said:
They absolutely need to expand. Outside of Insomniac their studios aren't consistently churning out games. They've struggled with moving to GAAS. They never should have abandoned Japan the way that they did. It's the one area that Microsoft can't buy.

Their slides are probably accurate. 2027 and next gen launch in 2028 are going to be a challenge. Should be fine for the next few years, but the new CEO will have some important decisions to make.
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I think it been even less of challenge if MS don't do something about there hardware .
At this rate they won't even get to Xbox one numbers.
 
Gavalanche

Gavalanche

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 21, 2021
18,159
Pai Pai Master said:
i keep seeing people say shit like "nothing has come out of Jim Ryan's GaaS initiative" as if games don't take several years to make, especially new IPs.

it really is brainrot central over here whenever GaaS is involved in the discussion
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He only got promoted in 2019. And then covid happened. He hasn't had that long really; he could have greenlit 700 games, only a small percentage would be available to play right now.
 
Greent4

Greent4

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,281
Charlotte, NC
Duxxy3 said:
They absolutely need to expand. Outside of Insomniac their studios aren't consistently churning out games. They've struggled with moving to GAAS. They never should have abandoned Japan the way that they did. It's the one area that Microsoft can't buy.

Their slides are probably accurate. 2027 and next gen launch in 2028 are going to be a challenge. Should be fine for the next few years, but the new CEO will have some important decisions to make.



I don't think COD is going anywhere. But all of the marketing will be Xbox branded. It will be available on game pass. They'll probably give all of the incentives and extras to Xbox players. Betas will almost certainly be on Xbox first.

And of course ALL of the old COD games will be on game pass.
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I was talking about the slide. They're are ppl saying it's fake on Twitter but it obviously comes from the same insomniac leaked content.
 
RoyalGoldenFES

RoyalGoldenFES

Member
Jul 14, 2023
444
Akita One said:
We tried to tell yaw...can't go decades without any multiplayer exclusives, then you wasted hundreds of millions to buy Bungie, who makes a game that edgelord dudebros still play. But hey, good luck with yet another remaster of a single player game you already own. Sony is in big trouble from a market share standpoint.
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No they're not, the PS5 has been dominating the Xbox Series in Europe and Japan lol. Even in the US it's doing somewhat better compared to the PS4 vs Xbox One
 
ShinkuTachi

ShinkuTachi

It's Pronounced "Aerith"
Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,874
Duxxy3 said:
They absolutely need to expand. Outside of Insomniac their studios aren't consistently churning out games. They've struggled with moving to GAAS. They never should have abandoned Japan the way that they did. It's the one area that Microsoft can't buy.

Their slides are probably accurate. 2027 and next gen launch in 2028 are going to be a challenge. Should be fine for the next few years, but the new CEO will have some important decisions to make.
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One benefit platform holders have now that they didn't have years ago is that people are invested thousands of dollars deep in their digital ecosystems. So it's only gonna get harder for either platform to grow, the further down the road we go.

People who spent years on Xbox, spending thousands building a library, aren't going to throw all that away and jump to PlayStation, and vise-versa. We're not gonna see a mass exodus from PlayStation like we did at the start of the 7th gen ever again, unless Sony does something super egregious. People are settled into whatever ecosystem they've been investing in for the past 10+ years.
 
BobLoblaw

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,360
They should be concerned. Granted, it will take Microsoft at least 5-10 years before things potentially start to change, but it's entirely possible. Having a foothold in cloud, PC, and mobile allows them to do a lot in general, but when you factor in BGS and ABK, they could really start to show some synergies with exclusive DLC (minus CoD), discounts, and things like that.

This is probably why Sony fought so hard on the ABK deal. They can see what's coming and they know they aren't in a position to quickly pivot. They're paying a ton on licensing apparently, their profit margins are small, they've put 95% of their faith in being console only, they only have one toe in PC gaming, and basically nothing in mobile. Interesting times ahead for sure.
 
Disco Infernal

Disco Infernal

Banned
May 14, 2021
16,731
I have no doubt those slides are real. Lots of interesting stuff came out in the trial against MS as well that was similar. Jim was also quoted as saying something along the lines of buying Bungie was a more important purchase than MS buying ATVI.
 
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