I am doing my part

  • Team Real

    Votes: 341 75.6%
  • Team Fake

    Votes: 33 7.3%
  • Team The Only Good Bug, is a Dead Bug

    Votes: 42 9.3%
  • Team Thor

    Votes: 75 16.6%

  • Total voters
    451

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,450
SIE's total revenue (not profit) was $27bn, so you're talking about 4% of their total revenue. And then they would lose an absolute ton of revenue on top of that, due to all the lost sales from people playing the games on PS Plus instead. How many sales of Starfield do you think Microsoft lost out on because it was on Gamepass?

There's a reason why people say Gamepass is such a good deal- because it's ridiculously unsustainable. You're getting $70 games at launch for a fraction of the price. Microsoft are bleeding money on it.

I am not using Gamepass at all because I am more an old games playing for hundreds hour guy. But:

How many people are cancelling Gamepass when they finished the game for 70 bucks value? The next 70 bucks game is just around the corner, not even talking about to be too lazy to cancel the sub people.
 

Tigerfish419

Member
Oct 28, 2021
4,573
Them over taking Sony by revenue is not some big win when they spend 80 billion dollars any company could do that if they had the cash .

Why do people keep saying this as if it's some great point, this aint it. Microsoft would make that back in like 12 months so this is cash in the couch and it's ok for them to use that cash.

MS expect better hardware sales which is why they made 2 systems so it easier to get into GP.
That plan has failed on console cause sales so bad 53k during BF for most EU countries and GP stall on consoles and missing targets.

Ah yes in just a couple of months Microsoft was expected to change it around, this shit takes years to change around.

Also Sony has there issues since they can't seem too get a GaaS game off ground after all these years and there mobile efforts are a joke .
plus that slide was old and from what we see in last few months both Sony and MS have sit down and low at there gaming sectors cause thing not going how they wanted .

Yup Sony is struggling with GaaS, Microsoft isn't doing great with console sales, Sony is doing great with console sales, Microsoft has record revenue, Sony has amazing revenue, it is possible to say both companies are doing bad and good things and for Microsoft console sales aren't as important as Sony so using that measuring stick is wrong as it doesn't take into account the whole Xbox ecosystem, apples and oranges.
 

Startropper

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,058
This seems pretty standard.

"Are we in a position to compete if MS gaming ambitions begin to bear fruit?"

What's interesting is Sony saying "they're dated and need to expand" is under the PC Storefront bullet point.

What does that mean compared to Sony recent plans for PC?

Edit: Seems its under the leapfrog bullet and not necessarily PC Storefront

Could mean anything then.
 

Cogg

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,197
I'm starting to see why Jimbo left. I wouldn't want to have to restructure and take on all the weight that carries either. Double so when the competition dropped 80 bil to take control of one of your cash cows.
 

thecaseace

Member
May 1, 2018
3,233
It would've been worrying if they weren't worried
Sony has valid concerns which should mean they compete harder. MS should compete harder. I'm here for it.

Exactly. In a free market as a consumer I should be happy when the market leader is worried because it means the market leader is liable to do more to work for my money.

Google is worried about it's position in search being upended by AI. The result is Google investing more in AI to compete and produce a better version of search.

If Apple was worried about it's position in Smartphones they might try to reduce their prices/margins to gain more market share as a hypothetical example if this were true.

Market leaders being worried about the position is not a bad thing for us.

I supported the acquisition because I knew it'd act as a Sword of Damocles for Sony, and might force them to diversify/try new business initiatives. I hope this concern they have for Microsoft translates into more things that benefit consumers/push boundaries. Personally I'd love to see Sony compete with MS in ways like this:
  • More" smaller", ambitious titles like Shadow of The Colossus and Gravity Rush being released (kind of how like MS released Hi-Fi Rush)
  • Improving PS+ to make it more appealing to customers (day-and-date releases of new games or at least adding them to PS+ within a year, a cheaper tier which only includes only play, more third party day-and-date releases like what XBOX has done with Persona 3 and Like a Dragon etc)
  • Day-and-date releases of their games on PC (like MS does)
  • Branch out into the GAAS in a positive way (not by shoehorning premium currency into non-GAAS games like GT7)
Aggressive competition can suck, but I think this could be good for gamers in the long-run.

This, Sony still have a number of competitive advantages and levers they can pull that mean they can be creative in bringing fighting for consumer dollars.
 
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GTVision

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,074
All the smaller studio purchases were to bolster Xbox Game Studios content for game pass, pretty much none of those studios were making PS exclusives really. Even if they were, none of them would be big enough to qualify as a strategic threat.
The only exception I can think of is Ninja Theory. They made PS3 exclusive Heavenly Sword and the first Hellblade started development as a PS4 exclusive. Those were definitely not a strategic threat though.
 

turkoman_

Member
Apr 29, 2023
213
The biggest game companies don't sell console ?
There only one company that make the amount revenue companies that sell hardware do is Tencent .
Now if you counting Google and Apple , there not game companies in same sense as MS, Ninendo and Sony but the app stores make shit ton of money from gaming .

I guess "console sales" is one of those outdated pillars. Microsoft announced record quarter (q1) for revenue on Xbox last month while their hardware revenue was down %7. It looks like those are not strictly corelative, they can increase their revenue while selling less consoles.

And, more surprisingly, it looks they have higher profit margin than Playstation according to leaked court documents.

This is the exact definition of an outdated bussiness model.
 
Jun 11, 2023
839
I really do think we'll be lucky if there is another console generation with a physical disc drive. I hope there is but the more this generation progresses the more I feel this might be the last one.

It seems like the future is digital and full of subscriptions which is not for me personally.

Furthermore I do hate all the acquisitions Microsoft have made. It just seems like cheating to me. How did they come from the 360 era of banging out classics and exclusives to having nothing to show for it on their own turf and resort to this.
 

stormfire

Member
Nov 26, 2018
2,904
People are saying these are fake. What?


GBtJTLbaMAAkU1q
 

IonMagus

Member
Feb 18, 2021
1,640
So is it unsustainable for ubisoft with its ubisoft+ multi access giving the ultimate edition of its game day one?

Or for EA with ea play pro?

People need to stop with this trillion dollar company nonsense.

Well yeah. Because those dont have to manage 20+ Studios, all the other stuff which comes with developing/managing a Console Platform and dont constantly release 250+ Million Dollar Games. Also at least EA only does offer this Day1 on PC..
 

GulfCoastZilla

Shinra Employee
Member
Sep 13, 2022
7,178
So confirming all the things we weren't scared about, they actually were.

Interesting.

COD news is outdated as they will have parity for 10 years but everything else is legit concerns.

Edit : in regards to fake slides, even though it's possible for Xbox fans to do that (why would insomniac a single player studio be looped into greater corporate strategy and concern?) it's just as possible for PS fans to downplay any threats to the system of choice.

Edit 2: if this was real they would have found more than one slide like this I would imagine
 

Unfolded

Member
Jun 27, 2023
999
Well yeah. Because those dont have to manage 20+ Studios, all the other stuff which comes with developing/managing a Console Platform and dont constantly release 250+ Million Dollar Games. Also at least EA only does offer this Day1 on PC..

You know that ubisoft have more than 10k employees and they make everything in house, from engine to motion capture.

People forgot that microsoft killed mixer, windows phone, zune, etc because they were not sustainable, why would they do that with xbox?
 

Voodoopeople

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,927
The acquisition should have never gone through but it is what it is

I disagree. The awful disappointment to the devs aside about this leak, this slide suggests to me that the acquisition is capitalism working. A market leader, miles ahead in terms of revenue and mindshare, is feeling the heat and having to plan a response. That is the market doing what a market is meant to do.
 

Meowmixez

ESS ESS DEE
Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,213
User warned: Console war rhetoric
I think Sony will poach Activision Blizzard talent from Microsoft to try to compete. It's not like Microsoft has shown it can maintain the quality of its developers.
 

Mr_F_Snowman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,000
I've just checked it again and no updates on the article. Not only documents but Spencer's testimony says the same too it seems. Do u have a source, it is an important point imo.

It's pointless - there is no "Gamepass" division and whether it is profitable or not will come down to how they are accounting for it within the larger make up of their financials i.e include 100% of 1st party development costs within gamepass = loss. include 0% of 1st party development costs within Gamepass = profit.

Until you see some kind of breakdown in an investor report they can frame it for PR basically however they like depending on how the wind is blowing that day
 

IonMagus

Member
Feb 18, 2021
1,640
You know that ubisoft have more than 10k employees and they make everything in house, from engine to motion capture.

People forgot that microsoft killed mixer, windows phone, zune, etc because they were not sustainable, why would they do that with xbox?

10k is like nothing and again, their output is way lower, Budgets often smaller and EA only offers Day1 on PC while Ubisoft wants 18€ a Month for this on Xbox.

Because they are playing the long Game and hope to achieve way more GP Subs. And didnt Spencer say smth about how Xbox might not exist anymore if a certain GP count issnr reached in 2027? So they have a deadline
 

Agni Kai

Member
Nov 2, 2017
7,238
User warned: Console war rhetoric
Mark my words, people. At the end of the war, that being an x amount of years from now, only Nintendo will be left standing.
 

t67443

Member
Oct 30, 2017
2,068
Of course these companies lie in court one of the biggest ones when these acquisitions happen is that it won't negatively affect customers. Would you say the wb discovery merger has or hasn't negatively affected customers?
The WB/Discovery merger has nothing to do with this and was not something MSFT would be able to control? What's the point of even bringing it up. That was Time Warner shuffling around dance partners because they have no more faith in the movie industry.

Honestly with the amount of time FTC and CMA spent pouring over documents and reviewing information to try and stop the merger. The effort, twisting and out right misunderstanding of video games in general they used to review and tried to stop the purchase. If either group caught off a whiff of financial irregularities they would have jumped on it to stop everything. If there really is some sort of illegal reporting of financial record that would have halted everything where were you 6+ months ago to bring forth this evidence to force Activision to remain independent?
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,006
Osaka, Osaka
These issues dont just press Sony, but probably any other publisher trying to offer value in a market Microsoft has increasing leverage in.

Gamepass is only sustainable for Microsoft because they can afford to throw money at Xbox seemingly forever no matter how much or little the market actually wants it.
The rules of market supply and demand that one stereotypically learns in high school usually doesn't account for a company making a killing in one field, and then being able to fail upwards in another by being able to undercut.
The only issue is having the games to do it, which is why they acquire already popular and successful publishers.
The goal isnt to be a Netflix of games, but rather the Amazon of games.
Sony just has a lot of skin in the game, but any game not sold on gamepass will need to successfully compete against gamepass as a value. Making a shooter probably looks a lot worse to publishers and investors, I'd assume, now that CoD might look free.

Of course, maybe Sony will stay dominant through PlayStation 6, and Microsoft will change course, not seeing Xbox as something worth losing money over, but nobody knows.
Gamepass (and selling Xbox hardware itself) probably loses Microsoft a lot of money, and the layoffs wont offset the big costs of acquisitions
This is a different game than the days of paying Rockstar to keep GTAIV DLC exclusive, or Konami to keep MGS4 exclusive.
I assume there was a meeting like this at a lot of companies this year.
 

Bengraven

Powered by Friendship™
Member
Oct 26, 2017
27,816
Florida
Mark my words, people. At the end of the war, that being an x amount of years from now, only Nintendo will be left standing.

The AI War of 2035 will happen, right after Insomniac's Wolverine 2, and all electronics on earth will be destroyed by the EMP pulse ray.

And in the post-nuclear winter world, a small trading card company will become the first millionaires in this new sticks and stones economy...selling playing cards to the new city-state settlements that have begun to thrive across the planet.

Nintendo of Nu-Earth.
 

P A Z

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,945
Barnsley, UK
I don't think Sony needs to worry about what Microsoft is doing.

Microsoft is the one who needs to worry about what Microsoft is doing because I don't think Microsoft really knows what Microsoft is doing and at some point someone at Microsoft is gonna take a look at things and say hey this isn't working.
 
May 25, 2019
6,095
London
I really do think we'll be lucky if there is another console generation with a physical disc drive. I hope there is but the more this generation progresses the more I feel this might be the last one.

It seems like the future is digital and full of subscriptions which is not for me personally.

Furthermore I do hate all the acquisitions Microsoft have made. It just seems like cheating to me. How did they come from the 360 era of banging out classics and exclusives to having nothing to show for it on their own turf and resort to this.

A lot of the early 360 momentum was built on exclusivity deals (Bioshock) and publishing games themselves (Mass Effect). Sony used that playbook during the PS4
 

War95

Member
Feb 17, 2021
4,474
User banned (1 month): Trolling over multiple posts, Multiple prior bans for same behavior
I'm starting to see why Jimbo left. I wouldn't want to have to restructure and take on all the weight that carries either. Double so when the competition dropped 80 bil to take control of one of your cash cows.
Legit think they are done for, the GAAS strategy is clearly not working. Time will tell
 

PAFenix

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Nov 21, 2019
15,292
Extremely ironic (at least for me personally) that they're citing Microsoft as being a threat to PS+ when it was their own internal decision of increasing the price that pushed me away.

Still have zero interest in Game Pass, but it's gotten me to consider different ecosystems. Good fucking job, Sony.
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,450


Wouldn't "sustainable" be a completely different meaning than "profitable"?
Something can be sustainable while losing money and not be profitable. (As in "we are within the budget of what we projected and the higher-ups approved"
 

Yerffej

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,396
Legit think they are done for, the GAAS strategy is clearly not working. Time will tell
They are the dominant force in the market. There's no telling what those new strategies will turn out like. They have multiple world wide hit franchises that deliver. I wouldn't say they are cooked by any means. But this kind of pressure is good. No one should get to just sit at the top in perpetuity.
 

Andromeda

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,897
Based on MS actual results on services and cloud (overall including Xbox sales), should Sony be really worried?
 

War95

Member
Feb 17, 2021
4,474
They are the dominant force in the market. There's no telling what those new strategies will turn out like. They have multiple world wide hit franchises that deliver. I wouldn't say they are cooked by any means. But this kind of pressure is good. No one should get to just sit at the top in perpetuity.
Perhaps not now but I dont see Sony with the capacity of fighting a well oiled Microsoft machine, they have been extremely lucky that most of MS output has been mid at best for the moment
 

fourfourfun

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,825
England
There not gathering pace there behind on everything they thought they would be at the start of gen after spending billions .

They sorted their hardware, they sorted their service strategy and they leveraged their back catalogue. That's been a great start that turned my (a fierce MS critic in the 360 days) head.

Software is slow, it always is. They bought a bunch of stuff that was always going to take 5 years to realise. Now they're just about getting ready for that 1 big game a quarter strategy. That's not going to be easy to ignore.
 

WhtR88t

Member
May 14, 2018
4,769
  • Premium content - expectation of free, best-in-class games creates unsustainable model.
    Monthly and incremental subs won't cover investment
It seems to me they don't think that AAA 1st party, day one games (as they currently exist today on PlayStation) aren't sustainable on a subscription service. Wonder what this means for the types of games they start to develop if they want to complete directly?

How do they compete, while continuing to release games like Spider-Man and The Last of Us?
 

Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,833
I always assumed the recent GaaS push was to find some kind of replacement for CoD on their systems, and it also probably paid a part in the inflated price of Bungie given the timing.

I really don't want this to happen, I could even see some moves like locking down Battlefield console or ps plus exclusivity just to compete in the short term.
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,450
They are the dominant force in the market. There's no telling what those new strategies will turn out like. They have multiple world wide hit franchises that deliver. I wouldn't say they are cooked by any means. But this kind of pressure is good. No one should get to just sit at the top in perpetuity.

What Market?
The stagnant home console market that hasn't seen userbase growth in 3 generations? Yes, or rather partly, there is still Nintendo.
The gaming market? they are big, but not dominant and they will lose market share every year while the console market stagnates further. They will try to squeeze even more money from their existing userbase which will not help growing the console market. (The argument is always, that Sony is making more money every year, but the reality is, that they find more ways to monetize their existing userbase, and not grow the market)
Mobile absolutely dwarfs Sony.
On PC, dozens of companies either have more revenue or more MAU.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,583
Perhaps not now but I dont see Sony with the capacity of fighting a well oiled Microsoft machine, they have been extremely lucky that most of MS output has been mid at best for the moment

Luck has nothing to do with it , Sony put in the work.
You think all of sudden if MS get some really good game which very hard to do for any company .
They will just out do Sony when they losing market share WW even in a year where had some good games.
Like MS has much bigger issues if you only sellling 53k console in most of EU on black friday .

On PC, dozens of companies either have more revenue or more MAU.

This crazy talk which companies make more revenue or have higher MAU on PC.
The only place that has that is steam over all not a single company .
 
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May 25, 2019
6,095
London
I always assumed the recent GaaS push was to find some kind of replacement for CoD on their systems, and it also probably paid a part in the inflated price of Bungie given the timing.

I really don't want this to happen, I could even see some moves like locking down Battlefield console or ps plus exclusivity just to compete in the short term.

IMO, Battlefield console exclusivity will kill that franchise
 
Oct 29, 2017
13,470
Dang. Lots of stuff leaking. Saw something on Twitter about projected game price increases of 140% in 3-4 years. Can't find the source.

There's so much money behind these AAA "blockbuster" titles that a flop or even a slight disappointment or hell, something that doesn't meat their standards is a huge dump of money. Or impact their image. Something being a little buggy at launch has the potential to do big damage.

I really want to know how much their GAAS train is costing, on particular the recent ND one.

Feels like they could have/ could be funding much smaller projects for that amount of time and money.

140% increase on game prices over the next 3-4 years would be enough for me to say "fuck you, gaming is dead." Especially in an ever increasingly digital landscape.

I'm not paying $150+ for any one video game, let alone any one digital or digital only video game. Get a fucking grip lol