Sony Cracks Down on Sexually Explicit Content in Games (Article States That It Refers to Underage Characters: Check Threadmarks)
- Thread starter Sectorseven
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The bigger issue to me is that from everything we've gathered from this shift in policy the standards and process seems to be very different for the little guys than it does for devs that have the backing of big publishers, which gives me flashbacks to 2005 when they single-handedly killed Working Designs by not letting them release the quality-but-dated-looking games they wanted to localize for PS2 while letting the big publishers put whatever garbage they wanted to on the platform.
That said, the industry's in a very different place now than it was in 2005 when Playstation was basically the only game in town- the downstream effect here will probably just be that smaller otaku game devs (even the ones who *don't* make games with this sort of content) and their audiences start favoring PC/Switch more.
That said, the industry's in a very different place now than it was in 2005 when Playstation was basically the only game in town- the downstream effect here will probably just be that smaller otaku game devs (even the ones who *don't* make games with this sort of content) and their audiences start favoring PC/Switch more.
When people have to argue to determine the age, it's most likely because the age has been obfuscated in the design, which is the main problem, imo.
Cyberpunk and other games wouldn't be affected anyway, since those policies only seem to apply to japanese/asian developers.
That doesn't change the fact that there's no actual guidelines, and that devs are doing things and hoping that Sony won't tell them it's not enough and that they need to spend more money on making a different version of a game they can't release without any issues on other platforms (since rating boards approved it and deemed it lawful).
Yeah. And that doesn't change what I've said. It's singled out, because that was only on PS4.
There's no "accident" when it happens on only one platform.
No. Again, learn to read full sentences. I'll repeat it since it seems hard:
The setting is not about underage characters. The characters are not underage. The characters don't look underage.
The only thing that seems to matter to you, is that those characters look underage to you (but not to other people, not to devs, not to rating boards).
Are you saying that's how it should be or how it is?
Because let me too you brother, that ain't how it is.
That's an SJW dogwhistle.
I think he's inferring that California is a liberal place and that's why they're trying to censor pedo / loli content.
Maybe I'm wrong.
Even the DMC5 case is a matter that 1) was reversed at apparently no tremendous cost 2) still involves a cutscene scene where a helpless naked damsel is rescued by the player, which is exactly the type of content that I would want Capcom to maybe reconsider putting into their games once in a while, guidelines or no guidelines.
So far the gnashing of teeth over the boogeyman of guidelines not explicitly put before consumers seems to be over nothing.
I only mention that one since it's the most talked-about game in these discussions due to how many there have been over its lifetime. It's also a series that my youngest brother is into and he's been frustrated with the hold-ups on future installments as a result of these new guidelines and the creator's stubbornness on making sure they release on Sony hardware first and foremost, as he enjoys playing them and digs their stories. From what I've seen of him playing the water gun installment, there's definitely a more flippant and carefree vibe compared to the VNs that have been receiving much harsher edits, so I apologize to any fans for equating them, even as they're in the same pot now.
Personally, I do think that the groping minigames that have cropped up in that series and elsewhere, even the relatively benign implementation that Fire Emblem Fates had for the Japanese release, is going way too far, especially with some of the types that they're catering to with some of the characters. It's not pornographic, but it is definitely straddling a line that has already been crossed over to very uncomfortable material, and it's especially noticeable for something like Senran Kagura that, as I said, seems otherwise goofy and lighthearted.
Reading through it, and I don't see the Sony Spokesman mentioning anthing about underage characters, and looks to be more the author's thoughts. I really hate this, as it makes it so the developers and audience don't know what is allowed allowed, and what is not.
Ok, so it's not just me then.
Hell, that threadmark has a specific quote from a developer saying that something Sony said was ok just a few days earlier may not be ok when they go to submit something to them again (and it's a costly process to then go back and change get stuff).
Sony needs to make these guidelines CLEAR for developers, because right now it isn't.
Thankfully the Switch, Xbox, and PC are open platforms without restrictions.
What about the designs make them look underage though? Like I said before, the obvious little girl shit (Tiki/Nowi from Fire Emblem) is obvious, but after that, what design details makes a female anime appear underage? The size of the eyes? Body proportions? Small/barely there noses? Face length? The answers I get are so inconsistent that I can't even say if it's purposely being obfuscated or not or just people not being a fan or certain styles/aspects of anime art.
It is the kind of content that when further away from the platform is better. It only takes one incident with large press coverage to sink a brand and take years to fix.
For those who want these loli content and objectified women, I believe that the PC will be the alternative.
I'm hoping that Xbox Live, Nintendo eShop and Steam clean their stores of it. It's the kind of thing that only worsens society.
For those who want these loli content and objectified women, I believe that the PC will be the alternative.
I'm hoping that Xbox Live, Nintendo eShop and Steam clean their stores of it. It's the kind of thing that only worsens society.
This is solid. Japan needs to stop making sexually explicit content with underaged characters and this is one way to do it. If they want to risque video game content they should age up their characters so its obvious they're adults.
Oh, I'm aware what's going on. Certain groups of people are indeed blaming this on their HQ being in California now, because they see San Francisco and such as being this "SJW" hub. One of GG's more simple yet bizarre ideas lingering even now.
Just was hoping they'd get things over with and openly say that if pushed to explain, so they could be moderated as they deserve.
Absolutely, I can agree the real problem with DMC 5 was how some of the women were portrayed as weak and ineffective damsels. Which might have only been tangentially affected by any particular guidelines, unless they also covered having a better representation of women in general.
I guess another kind of example would be those visual novel images where a random beam of light is added to cover up content that, frankly, should not have been drawn in the first place. Clearly the developers added that beam after they had drawn the offending content as a response to feedback. My position is they should be told right out of the gate, in no uncertain terms, that such things should not be there at all.
Perhaps then various characters won't even be designed to look underage, nor would they be depicted in any kind of remotely questionable situations in the first place.
Some us might think this shouldn't really need to be said, frankly, but unfortunately the world - and especially some parts of the Japanese industry- isn't like that.
When I saw the thread title I figured I'd come to see a clearly defined policy about what is and isn't acceptable. But that's not what's actually here? I feel pretty confident that 99% of people are on the "anime loli bullshit is gross and Sony, as a private company, has the ability/right to turn that stuff away if they please" train. I'm on board as well. But like there are a lot of good faith arguments against what is going on here:
There's also this element here. Lots of times loli shit is obvious but way too often I've seen people on ERA scream "loli" when talking about obviously of age women in "anime style". Like devs could avoid a lot of trouble if they would stop skirting the fucking line (seriously, some devs need to stop doing that!) but that clearly isn't good enough with some people. Also more than a few people in here are going beyond "ban the loli filth" which, if that were to ever be what this new Sony policy would entail, could be an issue. When I see the below:
Like I can respect this as one's personal sentiment (and I'd say I mostly share it, especially on point #7) but if this post is a call for Sony to use this new policy to push say #3 or #6 off their platform entirely, that could easily turn into a problem.
- Guidelines are vague/absent. So vague that developers often aren't sure what to do. We've already seen this manifest in games like DMC5.
- What does "anime loli trash" have to do with #MeToo (which is about sexual harassment)?
- If your argument is "we gotta protect the kids", not only does that give me 90's era flashbacks, but I think opens you up to "what about MK?" rebuttals.
- Also at the same time they're basically arguing "these sorts of games embarrass us"? So what's the real issue? Also why still let them on your platform but censored? Are you fooling anyone this way? Are these games less embarrassing to you if they are still on your platform but censored?
There's also this element here. Lots of times loli shit is obvious but way too often I've seen people on ERA scream "loli" when talking about obviously of age women in "anime style". Like devs could avoid a lot of trouble if they would stop skirting the fucking line (seriously, some devs need to stop doing that!) but that clearly isn't good enough with some people. Also more than a few people in here are going beyond "ban the loli filth" which, if that were to ever be what this new Sony policy would entail, could be an issue. When I see the below:
Like I can respect this as one's personal sentiment (and I'd say I mostly share it, especially on point #7) but if this post is a call for Sony to use this new policy to push say #3 or #6 off their platform entirely, that could easily turn into a problem.
It's almost like platform specific bugs can exist. And without capcom commenting on it, we'll never know for sure
There's no greater irony (hypocrisy) than you calling out a series for using 1000 year old demons, then literally using a thermian argument for another game to argue they're adults because of the setting/lore. Sorry, giving someone childlike eyes, nose, etc and then slapping huge boobs on them does not make them look older (her face literally does not change from when she was a child)
As I said in the other thread we had on this topic, this is mainly a ratings board issue that Sony has only half-heartedly tried to solve. Pretty much all of their attempts to cull this have only marginally improved the affected games. Their use of light rays and steam doesn't really hide the nature of these games. They clearly want smut on their platform but it cannot be too smutty. If this was actually important to them, they'd demand more radical cuts, ban those games altogether or use their clout to influence the ratings boards to affect real change. This is just weak shit.
some people's true colors showing with this and the blackface thread
Maybe this will drive JP devs to finally start having some adult looking characters for games that have large amounts of fan service. Either that or it will drive them all to the switch.
Ain't this the truth. It's about sexualization of under age children and we have smart asses bringing up dumb shit like Cham Cham and Ellie like it helps their arguments for wanting pedo shit.
It's just pervy anime games so far. Anything with clearly adults have had no problems (I mean, Sony has published those kinds of games themselves).
It's disgusting to me that many in this thread are defending this sick disgusting content. If it gets removed and we have much less of it then I'm all for it. Hopefully they can tackle the issue of oversexualization well but somehow I dont see that happening considering most of their games are sexualized.
I am all for removing sexual depictions of children within in games. Sadly, Sony's approach of altering the images censors the image but doesn't remove the context. A sexual depiction of a child is still a sexual depiction of a child whether you have light rays going over the body or not. They should ask for the complete removal entirely or not allow the game on their system at all.
Except for the fact that some games with adults have had lights and other things covering up the sexual content of said adults.
I'm kinda irritated when it's a policy that causes authors to hold back and not their own wish.
That said, I hardly care in most affected content because it wasn't worth defending anyway.
I did think the DMC5 censoring was kinda lame though. I played it on pc and when I heard of the blue light stuff on PS4 I was pretty flabbergasted. It can be taken as sexualization but I think it's a little over-protective.
That said, I hardly care in most affected content because it wasn't worth defending anyway.
I did think the DMC5 censoring was kinda lame though. I played it on pc and when I heard of the blue light stuff on PS4 I was pretty flabbergasted. It can be taken as sexualization but I think it's a little over-protective.
Some visual novels (even no underage looking characters) and uncofirmed but most likely sure, DMC V
if Nintendo didnt have a monopoly of hte Japanese market, they will now
My main problem continues to be the vague guidelines developers are still given in regards to what content Sony will bar from the PS4. It remains telling that devs have to gamble with what could or couldn't be allowed and still end up having to spend additional time reworking content when they could've been told the actual restrictions to begin with.
Cause moreover if it took them this long to make a full statement since the implementation, then I doubt developers have been told much anything on why this is happening.
Cause moreover if it took them this long to make a full statement since the implementation, then I doubt developers have been told much anything on why this is happening.
I will add this quote:
The article is pretty much focused on "software sold in the company's home market of Japan", but does not state the guidelines. Whether it the guidelines are clear or not doesn't matter when the subject is about the "games from Japan that had more tolerance for near-nudity and images of young women who might appear underage." Also, I'd argue that Microsoft doesn't have these "types" of games because none of them released on that platform before and they also declined to comment on the subject.
Since people want to say that Sony is lazy, I will add this as a bonus:
It reminds me a lot of what the MPAA used to be like prior to the policy changes that happened as a result of the documentary This Film is Not Yet Rated. No one should evoke the spirit of the MPAA prior to that documentary.
If this issue was literally defined as Loli anime games being shut down, I think everyone would support that. No right minded person wants to see or support underage sexualization of children even in anime form. keyword: underage. example: Most anime games
However it's vague and there are some people who enjoy more raunchy video games with adult people showing skin. Keyword, Adult. Example: DOA volleyball series.
I've only read the surface so maybe I'm wrong but Sony needs to be more specific here I think. Either way, I'm glad they are moving in the right direction on this.
Some niche game sold on various platforms isn't going to affect its reputation whatsoever.
As it should be. We have rating boards.
Fucked up situation and this Sony policy is so damn stupid. How can there still not be absolute 100% clear guidelines instead of a vague policy that has been all over the place in how it is applied
Only if it is Japanese game though.
This whole thing couldn't be any more bad American stereotype of sex is bad violence is good. Talk about these guidelines while Sony's biggest upcoming title has shown to have one of the most uncomfortable realistic depictions of violence with LoU2
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so basically SONY is on the "to big to fail" mentality??
"oh, you dont like our platform? well, Fk u, go find somewhere else to publish your game".
tho they are on their right, this same controller attitude is what earner Nintendo lots of scorn during their Iron Claw era
User Banned (Permanent): History of Defending/Dismissing the sexualization of minors.
Most of censorship boils down to emotional arguments. "Disgust" and "Wrong" are often used by the right wing to attempt to ban things, and we've seen this countless times from conservative religious groups, but it's really disappointing to see many in the US left wing succumb to the same emotional argumentation without coherent logical basis in anything. These content guidelines are never explicitly stated, they just make it up as they go depending on how much they need to address potential social media outrage. If some games don't fit their concept of fitting for "young minds", make it M-rated. Why Sony thinks it needs to overrule ratings systems that are already in place is beyond me.
What monopoly? Do you even know what that word means? Does the switch have Monster Hunter world, RE2:Remake, DMCV, Kingdom Hearts 3, Street fighter V, Tekken 5... Should I go on?
Interesting usage of wording here. Really. Fascinating stuff. And by interesting, I mean completely fucking stupid.
Sony feels the need to overrule ratings systems because those ratings systems have perpetuated sexist garbage for too long and haven't done anything to curb the issue?
If anything, Sony isn't going far enough. The shit needs to be banned outright.
Even if we're not talking about depiction of underage girls - which it's pretty clear this does and which zero users should be defending in any form whatsoever - the typical depictions of female sexuality in games is largely directly still playing to male gaze. I can think of few examples where there has been genuine expression of sexuality in games... and if we're talking about action games, it's zero. And yes that's includes Bayonetta, sorry to say. It's a great action game, and it's also creepy.
A great test of these things is always: can I play this game in a room with my mother/wife/girlfriend? If the answer is no, it's probably problematic.
A great test of these things is always: can I play this game in a room with my mother/wife/girlfriend? If the answer is no, it's probably problematic.