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Typhon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,122

Sony is still developing concepts which could see controllers improve even more, and Sony's latest patent describes a new kind of analog stick which is able to retract into the body of the controller. There are also plans to include a non-Newtonian fluid which would be displaced by the collapsible analog stick. A non-Newtonian fluid is a liquid which hardens in response to sudden pressure, and this should provide these analog sticks with a kind of inbuilt haptic resistance similar to the DualSense's triggers. The fluid in the stick would also likely help to reset the analog stick fairly quickly once the player lifts pressure from them.

This is an interesting design choice which could introduce a range of new gameplay features for developers to implement. These collapsible control sticks could act like two extra analog trigger inputs on the face of the controller, with which the player could maintain fine control of the game's analog inputs. Camera controls for 3D games are almost universally mapped to the right analog stick, and an extra dimension to move this stick in could allow players to easily zoom or focus the camera on a specific element of the environment.


Implementing collapsible control sticks would be more than a design tweak for the DualSense controller, as it already features buttons which are pressed by pushing on the controller's analog sticks, although these buttons are usually only utilized when a game runs out of face buttons to map its controls to, and even then, nothing vital is ever usually mapped to an analog stick button. If this design is implemented into a future version of the DualSense controller it may not play well with older games which have inputs that are dependent on the fast click of an analog stick, such as the jump button in Dark Souls 2.

Sony-analog-stick-patent.jpg
 
Oct 27, 2017
20,766
Omg that sounds so cool. So like moving R3 at the same time to move camera and depending fin the pressure as you press it down it zooms a rifle in further or less than max? Damn.

Dualsense 2 please (we all know this won't happen before PS6 sadly)
 

Wrexis

Member
Nov 4, 2017
21,258
A non-Newtonian fluid is a liquid which hardens in response to sudden pressure, and this should provide these analog sticks with a kind of inbuilt haptic resistance similar to the DualSense's triggers.

Interesting idea. Like a hammer on custard/corn starch? Hard resistance or soft depending on how fast you push it?

Not sure how this would feel better though.
 

Serene

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
52,549
would this do anything to alleviate press-able sticks causing more drift?
 

SamAlbro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,363
Interesting idea. Like a hammer on custard/corn starch? Hard resistance or soft depending on how fast you push it?

Not sure how this would feel better though.

It might not harden in response to a press of the stick, but rather from rumble motors around the stick. So vibration at different intervals could result in different levels of hardness. Depending on how quickly it reverts to liquid state, it could even be used for things like feeling around a space blind. Maybe exploring a dark room where your stick will stop if you hit a wall, for example.
 

Qikz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,508
I'd really love to see if they could make something like this, but I get the feeling this would just break more than normal sticks already do.
 

slothrop

ā–² Legend ā–²
Member
Aug 28, 2019
3,885
USA
My default for most patents is that they probably never end up in a consumer product. Its just the way things go.
 
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JJD

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,511
I can already imagine the damage to thousands of youngsters carpal tunnelā€¦
 

LightKiosk

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,479
This screams potential DualSense 2 feature for the PS6. I was wondering where they'd go after the haptics and triggers and the analog sticks make sense.
 

Katbobo

Member
May 3, 2022
5,406
Arrogant Sony thinks they can push away their pro-Newtonian audience and still find success? They will learn their lesson.
 

Atom

Member
Jul 25, 2021
11,518
Yay gimmicks! I freakin love them. There's no chance that these could end up being a nightmare to repair and replace and have a short lifespan either I'm sure.

Ffs sony just fix stick drift to start.
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,812
Not surprising to see Sony double down on immersive tech given the feedback to DualSense, and PS VR2 isn't even out yet.
 

RedRum

Newbie Paper Plane Pilot
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,365
I heard of this before but needed YouTube for a more in-depth look. Pretty interesting shit to do with a controller.
 

PAFenix

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Nov 21, 2019
14,732
I know it's not how it works, but my first thought was "great now a controller's gonna leak all over my hands"
 

Musubi

Unshakable Resolve - Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,628
Omg that sounds so cool. So like moving R3 at the same time to move camera and depending fin the pressure as you press it down it zooms a rifle in further or less than max? Damn.

Dualsense 2 please (we all know this won't happen before PS6 sadly)

Or just simply resist accidental presses.
 

ciddative

Member
Apr 5, 2018
4,632
It might not harden in response to a press of the stick, but rather from rumble motors around the stick. So vibration at different intervals could result in different levels of hardness. Depending on how quickly it reverts to liquid state, it could even be used for things like feeling around a space blind. Maybe exploring a dark room where your stick will stop if you hit a wall, for example.

This sounds frickin wild.


And this is absolutely perfect.
 

Zoyos

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
322
would this do anything to alleviate press-able sticks causing more drift?

It depends on how it's integrated. I wouldn't say directly, but it might be able to alleviate some of the wear and tear that eventually leads to that issue, but overall there has to be an improvement in quality of the centering of the potentiometers that are expected to have pressure applied to them.

MFG_THB001P.jpg


Modern joysticks use two potentiometers. Yellow parts in image. One for each axis per stick. Each potentiometer reads a difference in resistance based on the distance it's reading point rotates towards or away from the center. We have two centered axis which are held in place by potentiometers on one side and a button (black portion outer edge) on one side across from one of the potentiometers.

For an extremely high quality design I would want one potentiometer on each side where each axis averages two values, so even if one potentiometer begins to drift the effect would be reduced. Then the button would be integrated into the stick itself with better support materials. The last thing to address would be ensuring the sticks recenter properly.
 

Yeona

Banned
Jan 19, 2021
2,065
Maybe I'm just not getting the illustrations on the patent itself but wouldn't just make resetting the analog to resting neutral position take significantly longer than just the current technology? Also, considering how prone to malfunctioning modern controlers are, wouldn't this be asking for internal leaks of that fluid all onto the rest of the hardware? Or y'know shocks.

I'm so old.
 

Zoyos

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
322
Maybe I'm just not getting the illustrations on the patent itself but wouldn't just make resetting the analog to resting neutral position take significantly longer than just the current technology? Also, considering how prone to malfunctioning modern controlers are, wouldn't this be asking for internal leaks of that fluid all onto the rest of the hardware? Or y'know shocks.

I'm so old.

I agree that this would be very difficult to fully contain considering the size of the stick, tolerances, and reinforcement needed.

There probably is a inexpensive non-conductive fluid that could be used. I would need to look into that.

I don't think this is about resetting the sticks, but inducing feedback force directly into them. That said, I have no idea how they could reasonably do that within the confines of a controller.

Side note: There really should be an pro level controller using hall effect sensors rather than potentiometers. It would increase the price by ~$40 using current designs, but there would be no stick drift ever. Was really to sad to find out that they weren't used in the xbox elite controllers given their price point. Maybe we will see those in the v3 or a dualsense pro controller.