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TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,172
You literally don't know this. The legalese is different, doesn't mean the outcome is.
We do, given the versions from some countries that disclosed the exact amount donated, read the thread. I think it's generally safe to say that Blizzards legal team wouldn't draft the same language twice and then change it up the third time just to spice it up for fun.
 

Rex1157

Banned
Nov 22, 2017
1,429
Again I ask, to say what exactly? "After considering feedback from the public, we've decided to change our decision to steal from Cancer patients"?

Even if it were true, they wouldn't be "stealing from cancer patients" that's hyperbole dude c'mon. Worst case scenario is that they would be being cheapskates here, but not Satan incarnate like some here are suggesting.
 

LABARONX

Member
Mar 29, 2018
32
Sure, it's good that money are going to charity. Did I say it wasn't?

"But sony deserves the shit getting flung their way"
I'm lost as to why one would feel that way honestly

I'm trying to understand the meaning of this, because the general argument being made is that because sony didn't waive sales taxes on dlc they somehow deserve this extreme level of backlash because they only donated 800 thousand when Microsoft and Activision put up a million, etc. I applaud anyone donating to any scientific research these days
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,414
And the wording on the danish MS page is:

From May 8 to 21, Blizzard Entertainment donates 100% of the revenue when you buy a Pink Mercy skin for Xbox to the Breast Cancer Research Foundation.

And they're stating loud and clear in the top of the page that the price includes VAT.

Thank you for quoting this. I don't understand why some are having so much trouble taking this stuff at face value. Acting like we don't know anything is being obtuse about the situation. As many (most?) have said from the start, all it will take is a clarifying statement from either Blizzard or Sony to help assuage people's fears about how the money is directed to the BCRF.

All Sony really has to say is that they're giving the same as everyone else. Nothing more, nothing less.

Exactly.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,172
Even if it were true, they wouldn't be "stealing from cancer patients" that's hyperbole dude c'mon. Worst case scenario is that they would be being cheapskates here, but not Satan incarnate like some here are suggesting.
Nobody said they are Satan incarnate, hyperbole to the max. They don't need a defense force.

If you buy from blizz or ms 14.99 goes to charity. If you buy from Sony some amount less goes to charity. It's that simple. Calling companies out on this shit is Good, so why are people actively defending it? Call it taxes, call it whatever you like, then reread the first two sentences of this paragraph and try to rationalize why they shouldn't be called on it again.
 

Deleted member 5491

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,249
Just went to the german shop sites of Blizzard, Microsoft and Sony.
Blizzard and Microsoft clearly say they will donate 100% of the price your're paying (14,99€) to the BCRF.

On the PSN page it says, that 11,78€ will be donated to the BCRF, but you pay 14,99€.
Considering that we have a 19% VAT: 14,99€ / 1,19 = 12,59€

There is a 27,25% price difference between 11,78€ and 14,99€.
Is that the usual cut Sony takes per store-purchase?

 

Thac

The Fallen
Nov 1, 2017
388
Sure. At least they would of actually commented on the matter and we know where they stand.

Except that it isn't steal from cancer patients any way you slice it. You, the purchaser, are not making a donation. You are purchasing a commodity which will be taxed. All of these companies are then going to donate actual money to them. If this was actual charitable donations then everyone purchasing would be getting tax receipts on their donations to a registered charity. Since no one except MS/Sony/Blizz are doing that, it's a sale the same as any other skin.
 

Van Bur3n

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
26,089
We can only assume it's true unless Sony says otherwise. Until then, that's not a very nice thing to do and there is absolutely no reason that anyone should try to defend this or make it out as less bad than it is. You need to get your morals in place, bruvs.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,172
Except that it isn't steal from cancer patients any way you slice it. You, the purchaser, are not making a donation. You are purchasing a commodity which will be taxed. All of these companies are then going to donate actual money to them. If this was actual charitable donations then everyone purchasing would be getting tax receipts on their donations to a registered charity. Since no one except MS/Sony/Blizz are doing that, it's a sale the same as any other skin.
Mental gymnastics. They're selling the same thing and giving less to charity. Not sure why you're trying to rules lawyer why that is a good thing for a gigantic corporation .
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,172
Blizzard is making the donations, not Sony.
Yes, and?
We can only assume it's true unless Sony says otherwise. Until then, that's not a very nice thing to do and there is absolutely no reason that anyone should try to defend this or make it out as less bad than it is. You need to get your morals in place, bruvs.
Dont even have to assume, there are actual numbers throughout the thread, heck even the title gives them. Two posts above yours we have another example. Some people just refuse to even read. =/
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
We can only assume it's true unless Sony says otherwise. Until then, that's not a very nice thing to do and there is absolutely no reason that anyone should try to defend this or make it out as less bad than it is. You need to get your morals in place, bruvs.
It's not nice that they are collecting the taxes that they are legally obligated to and still giving a platform to raise money for charity? What are you even talking about? This isn't an issue of morals. It's an issue of tax revenue and where it comes from.
 

Deleted member 1238

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,070
This is a good long-and-short of a whole range of concerns.
at the end of the day I think that is all we want to know. Is Sony giving as much as the other two stores per purchase? right now that question has been raised and we'd like an answer. The way things are worded make it seem as if Sony is giving less per purchase than the other two parties. It would be nice to get clarification, and if it is the case it would be nice for Sony to change their stance.
 

Troll

Banned
Nov 10, 2017
3,278
As someone who has friends and family who've fought cancer, this is absolutely abhorrent. Fuck Sony.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,172
It's not nice that they are collecting the taxes that they are legally obligated to and still giving a platform to raise money for charity? What are you even talking about? This isn't an issue of morals. It's an issue of tax revenue and where it comes from.
Why is the difference in what they give to blizz and what we pay more than the tax value then? Why do you think it's a good argument in the face of nobody else doing it also. ok, change it to charity is receiving less, if my shorthand from my phone bothers you that much.
 

DoomGaze

Member
Nov 16, 2017
181
I'm a bit confused. Reading the OP, which I gather is just tweets, I'm thinking Sony is only giving part of the amount to charity?

If so, I don't understand what's so awful about that. They're giving less than they could, but can't we say that of everyone, about everything?

Or are they compelling Blizzard to give them money when Blizzard wants to donate all of the proceeds?
 

Rex1157

Banned
Nov 22, 2017
1,429
Nobody said they are Satan incarnate, hyperbole to the max. They don't need a defense force.

If you buy from blizz or ms 14.99 goes to charity. If you buy from Sony some amount less goes to charity. It's that simple. Calling companies out on this shit is Good, so why are people actively defending it? Call it taxes, call it whatever you like, then reread the first two sentences of this paragraph and try to rationalize why they shouldn't be called on it again.
You seem to be making a bigger deal out of this than it really is, and that serves no real purpose. Let someone actually ask Sony what's going on first.
 

Tibarn

Member
Oct 31, 2017
13,376
Barcelona
I hope that they forgot to create an special case for this DLC, or that Blizzard forgot to tell Sony about the charity thing...
Because if not, fuck Sony.
 

Thac

The Fallen
Nov 1, 2017
388
Mental gymnastics. They're selling the same thing and giving less to charity. Not sure why you're trying to rules lawyer why that is a good thing for a gigantic corporation .
You have no proof the back that claim up. The reading of the store pages and the napkin math by people in this thread are donating are not the same as what is being donated. For example, maybe this takes into account foreign exchange to get the donation into the currency that the charity can accept. Or tax, or duty on the deliverable.

All that you and most of the people in this thread are doing are looking at the words and assuming they mean what you think they mean which is likely not the case.
 

Orb

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,465
USA
I find the German listings posted above by Mazzle very telling. I feel almost positive at this point that Sony is taking the cut, either of their own conscious choice or out of a technical limitation of PSN.
 

Euler007

Member
Jan 10, 2018
5,045
We need more accounting information about this transaction and less basement outrage. This could definetely be a situation where Sony is on the hook for some taxes since a third party is making a donation and not them.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,172
You have no proof the back that claim up. The reading of the store pages and the napkin math people in this thread are doing are not the same as what is being donated. For example, maybe this takes into account foreign exchange to get the donation into the currency that the charity can accept. Or tax, or duty on the deliverable.

All that you and most of the people in this thread are doing are looking at the words and assuming they mean what you think they mean which is likely not the case.
Sony is giving the money to blizz just like any other transaction in the store.you can't handwave it as napkin math when it's a simple calculation and done accurately: that's just called math.
 

Orb

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,465
USA
It's not nice that they are collecting the taxes that they are legally obligated to and still giving a platform to raise money for charity? What are you even talking about? This isn't an issue of morals. It's an issue of tax revenue and where it comes from.
THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT THE TAXES / VAT. For the dozenth time, the disclaimer on at least four countries' store pages at this point suggest that Sony is taking their usual platform fee (or at least some fee) before handing the money to Blizzard to donate. Three of those countries are outside the EU so VAT doesn't even apply in those cases.
 

Thac

The Fallen
Nov 1, 2017
388
Sony is giving the money to blizz just like any other transaction in the store.you can't handwave it as napkin math when it's a simple calculation and done accurately: that's just called math.

You don't see their books or the total donation. You might be able to get it when they release their annual report - but pretty doubtful. All you're doing is making assumptions that are likely incorrect. But hey, keep believing Sony is the enemy of the people because they're wording isn't exactly what you want it to be.
 

Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,869
THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT THE TAXES / VAT. For the dozenth time, the disclaimer on at least four countries' store pages at this point suggest that Sony is taking their usual platform fee (or at least some fee) before handing the money to Blizzard to donate. Three of those countries are outside the EU so VAT doesn't even apply in those cases.
Then that could very well be that these DLCs were submitted via the normal/regular pipelines and weren't considered for special attention (which would be on Blizzard to do).
 

Orb

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,465
USA
You don't see their books or the total donation. You might be able to get it when they release their annual report - but pretty doubtful. All you're doing is making assumptions that are likely incorrect. But hey, keep believing Sony is the enemy of the people because they're wording isn't exactly what you want it to be.
It's not Sony's wording, it's Blizzard's. Why would Blizzard make a different wording for the PSN store when it's exactly the same on the other two platforms this DLC is being sold on? For shits and giggles?

Then that could very well be that these DLCs were submitted via the normal/regular pipelines and weren't considered for special attention (which would be on Blizzard to do).
If that's the case, then why would Blizzard go through the process of getting the fee waived for Xbox and not PSN?
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,172
You don't see their books or the total donation. You might be able to get it when they release their annual report - but pretty doubtful. All you're doing is making assumptions that are likely incorrect. But hey, keep believing Sony is the enemy of the people because they're wording isn't exactly what you want it to be.
Assumptions? These numbers are directly from their storefronts dude.
 

Dinjooh

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
2,844
THIS IS NOT JUST ABOUT THE TAXES / VAT. For the dozenth time, the disclaimer on at least four countries' store pages at this point suggest that Sony is taking their usual platform fee (or at least some fee) before handing the money to Blizzard to donate. Three of those countries are outside the EU so VAT doesn't even apply in those cases.

This just doesn't make any sense. Why would they charge a platform fee in some territories but not in others?
Currently there is only 0.2 USD left after subtracting VAT from the danish store. That is not their platform fee or even close to it.
 

Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,869
If that's the case, then why would Blizzard go through the process of getting the fee waived for Xbox and not PSN?
Maybe the Microsoft store already had a mechanism in place during DLC submission to exempt the submission from taxes or for charity and that PSN's submission process has no such automated mechanism? Not out of the realm of possibility.
 

Deleted member 1238

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,070
Then that could very well be that these DLCs were submitted via the normal/regular pipelines and weren't considered for special attention (which would be on Blizzard to do).
so now it's blizzard's fault?

I'm just going to duck out and wait for some clarification (if we ever get any). This is getting ridiculous.
 

Orb

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,465
USA
Maybe the Microsoft store already had a mechanism in place during DLC submission to exempt the submission from taxes or for charity and that PSN's submission process has no such automated mechanism? Not out of the realm of possibility.
Do you think Blizzard lost Sony's phone number?
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,172
Maybe the Microsoft store already had a mechanism in place during DLC submission to exempt the submission from taxes or for charity and that PSN's submission process has no such automated mechanism? Not out of the realm of possibility.
Y'all are like Dr strange looking through all realities for the one where Sony can't possibly be the cause of this.

Less of your Purchase goes to charity if you buy through Sony, for no reason that would not also apply to Ms. Period. There's no argument to be made, this is fact straight from the horse's mouths.
 

Expy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
9,869
Y'all are like Dr strange looking through all realities for the one where Sony can't possibly be the cause of this.

Less of your Purchase goes to charity if you buy through Sony, for no reason that would not also apply to Ms. Period. There's no argument to be made, this is fact straight from the horse's mouths.
If their system doesn't allow to bypass taxes for these kinds of DLC items, then they would need to make adjustments manually, and unless Blizzard asked them to do so, then obviously the store will take the required tax/fees for posting DLC on the platform.
 

Orb

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,465
USA
Who knows? I can't answer that since I don't know the answer.
And I don't either. But thinking through all this logically based on what we know, it's not that hard to paint a picture of what's going on here. Don't know why people are so resistant to seeing the pattern. (And again, if I've been wrong this whole time, I'll happily cop to it once clarification comes out.)
 
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