You realise we're talking about people with disabilities here, right?
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Sony's Dualshock 4 restriction for the PS5 raises concerns of accessibility
- Thread starter Dancrane212
- Start date
I have problems with my hands too so I get it. I have arthritis and trigger finger so it's difficult to find a comfortable controller. I like the Nvidia Shield controller but they're built poorly and always break. PS4 controller isn't too bad.
I have a Steam controller I've never used, I'm going to have to try it out.
I have a Steam controller I've never used, I'm going to have to try it out.
User Banned (1 Month): Dismissing accessibility concerns over a series of posts
I understand that but..this is why we can't progress in gaming, every console before this has came with a NEW controller to use and now its a big deal, Disabled gamers should mod the Dualsense simple as that. Everyone knew the new consoles would probably get new controllers etc and NOW right before launch it's a problem....Accessibility is a priority I agree but this isn't new at all, and also I love what TLOUII does for the disabled :)
Turning off these features on a functionally similar controller isn't stopping progress, Astrobot demo we saw can easily be played with a DS4 without the fancy dynamic resistance, just like you can play games without rumble, the Xbox Elite pad allows sticks with adjustable tension, with a native app to modify values to the console as you see fit, this is config out side the game which acts a bridge between the user and the game, there's so many solutions we've seen that this is you and others simply apologising for a corporation. Your implying disabled gamers needs stop progress. Terrible post.
I think this goes beyond allowing the Dualshock 4 to work on the PS5 without restriction. I don't recall any of the PS5 announcements made to date have taken into account gamers with a disability. If Sony had addressed the options available to them then I think they would not have felt as left out in all the next gen fanfare as they are feeling now.
I get that Sony need to ensure their PS5 message is on point and they are likely very strict on what goes out but I think the needs of gamers with a disability could have been accommodated better. At the end of the day, gaming is about having fun.
And to be fair, Microsoft haven't done much better in their XBox Series X messages but are in a better position by default with their release of the Xbox Adaptive Controller a few years back coupled with the fact that XBox Series X supports it.
I get that Sony need to ensure their PS5 message is on point and they are likely very strict on what goes out but I think the needs of gamers with a disability could have been accommodated better. At the end of the day, gaming is about having fun.
And to be fair, Microsoft haven't done much better in their XBox Series X messages but are in a better position by default with their release of the Xbox Adaptive Controller a few years back coupled with the fact that XBox Series X supports it.
Everyone knew that the PS5 was planning back compat, they also knew that Microsoft was planning forward compat with controllers, the fact that it's an issue now is because now is when people have learnt that Sony aren't planning to do the same. There's nothing weird about this being raised as an issue now that we know it's an issue.
The thing is, people who already have a modded controller now have to buy a new one, which are often pricey, and getting haptic feedback to work might not even be possible for some, depending what their situation is, so at that point you pay a lot of money, for something you already have.
Accessibility should always first come from 1st party.
Curios - What have they not done better? They've been very clear about all of their xbone accessories being able to work on XSX for all games. Plus the adapative controller that's part of that, as you said.
Yup, I agree, and it is nice to have a leader in Xbox in that subject.
I guess Sony execs are leaning too hard on "new generation"
This is an extremely silly equivalence.
The DualSense and the DS4 have the exact same amount of buttons and virtually provide the same functionality.
Weird to see some folks insisting that the DualSense's very minor and incremental "innovations" should be a priority over user accessibility, or even implying that accessibility is somehow inhibiting innovation.
Getting defensive about little stuff like haptics and adaptive triggers just seems silly when there are folks who are unable to play games comfortably AT ALL without accommodations.
Getting defensive about little stuff like haptics and adaptive triggers just seems silly when there are folks who are unable to play games comfortably AT ALL without accommodations.
Even with the resistive triggers, I see no reason to not allow DS4 compatibility with PS5 games considering that most third party titles will play just the same on Xbox and on PC without these.
That being said I'm happy that Sony is trying something new with the DS5 and I think the resistive triggers are a cool feature that I'm really interested in trying out. There are pros and cons to only allowing the DS5 on PS5 games, it will hopefully make all devs fully utilize this feature. Accessibility is definitely an issue with this policy and I'm happy to see that Sony has some people on this. I hope they can find a way.
The world is not a fair place, people with accessibility problems usually have to pay extra to adapt and be able to use the most mundane stuff from cars to computers.
I have a cousin that was in a huge car accident a long time ago. A street pole fell over exactly where he was seated. He has speech difficulties, and motor coordination difficulties but he still managed to live a mostly normal life. He works and is independent but he stopped gaming because when it happened there was just no way around it (around 30 years ago). Every now and then when I'm playing Street Fighter I remember when we used to play together.
That being said I'm happy that Sony is trying something new with the DS5 and I think the resistive triggers are a cool feature that I'm really interested in trying out. There are pros and cons to only allowing the DS5 on PS5 games, it will hopefully make all devs fully utilize this feature. Accessibility is definitely an issue with this policy and I'm happy to see that Sony has some people on this. I hope they can find a way.
The world is not a fair place, people with accessibility problems usually have to pay extra to adapt and be able to use the most mundane stuff from cars to computers.
I have a cousin that was in a huge car accident a long time ago. A street pole fell over exactly where he was seated. He has speech difficulties, and motor coordination difficulties but he still managed to live a mostly normal life. He works and is independent but he stopped gaming because when it happened there was just no way around it (around 30 years ago). Every now and then when I'm playing Street Fighter I remember when we used to play together.
The shape is more important than having the same buttons. Remember the Duke
Personally, I'll definitely be turning off any form of rumble at the OS level and most likely resistive triggers depending on just how resistive they might be. Having carpal tunnel syndrome issues constantly plaguing me because of work and reynaud's turning my hands shades of white and blue and getting bright pink sausage fingers when I run, go out in the cold or just hold a joypad while there's a breeze or fan pointed my way, I gotta minimise unnecessary wiggles and jiggles when I can :) Just did first 3 half days at work since early February and the thumb part of my palm looks like someone stashed a deflated squash ball in there, so my right stick aiming skills, shit as they are on a good day, means watching TV is going to have to do for a bit to avoid frustration. main thing I want is gyro assit to be a thing, obviously, for anyone even just slightly impared as myself it'd make such a big difference.
You'd think, same games played in the same way. Only reason I can think they're going this way and insisting ps5 games have to have ds controller is some form of attempt at promoting support from games when devs know each and every user will have that exact pad. but they haven't made much use of unique features before, so I'd say PS would have to further incentivise it, and the only language that speaks here is financial.
Oh don't do that.
What? They made sure all of your old controllers would work on the new console. That's literally what people are asking for here.
I chose the hyperbolic last point deliberately to show the starkest contrast, but it took many generations of updates to get us from there to here. Each one of those updates being mandatory could've been rejected for accessibility concerns.
Anyway your point is why I said games should have the ability to opt out of DS4 support if they were doing something special with the new functionality. It's obviously not as big a deal as analogue sticks, so I wouldn't expect that to be common.
The Xbox Adaptive controller is a great idea. However, it's a custom solution for people with disabilities. I'm fully in support of custom peripherals for people with disabilities. I'm sure Sony can and SHOULD release something similar for PS5 to allow input mapping to PS5 controller features, but that's a different point from whether ps5 games should use a ps5 controller.
Tbh my post is more about the principle. Accessibility is important. Addressing all accessibility concerns at any cost? That I can't agree with. You find a balance.
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Imagine if Microsoft announces the XsX and XsS (Lockhart) will support DS4 controllers. I'd love to see how the general online gaming sphere reacts.
As for disabled gamers and accessibility issues, they do have a point.
I mean 90-95% of PS5 games won't make use of any of the new features of the DualSense controllers to an extent that they couldn't support the DS4 controller. As most of these games will be also releasing on other platforms that don't use the DualSense controller.
Sony just wants to make more money by forcing every PS5 game to only use the DualSense controller.
The Dualshock was introduced in 1997, that basic layout became standard in the console world shortly afterwards. We've had 20 years now in which we've seen practically the exact same inputs on every new controller plus a handful of attempts at adding to this which have had varying levels of success, but none of which ever became standardised or integral to our controllers.
I'm not sure that we're going to see much more evolution in game pads whether there is backwards compatibility or not.
I think some of you are getting confused, no one is saying Sony should not develop a new controller with new features. They just shouldn't require that that be the only controller that works with PS5 games. At the very least, they should allow compatibility with controllers from the prior gen. Eventually, everyone has to replace whatever controller they have and a 5-7 year console generation offers enough time for some sticks/buttons to wear out. Basically, it would be reasonable to support PS4 peripherals but maybe not as far back as PS3 as it's reasonable to assume that controllers that old would be worn out and need replacing anyways.
Also, 99% of button/stick/trigger inputs in any modern game would be covered by a fucking PS2 controller (I see Axel actually mentioned it above). There are changes to feedback (rumble/haptic) and trading digital triggers for analog but the vast majority of games would get along fine without any of that. That's a 20 fucking year old controller capable of offering a functional experience and yet some people act like if you add more patents to a controller, then we'll all live on the moon or some shit.
Kudos to the mods for the swift action o those who were dismissive of accessibility concerns.
As for potential solutions, I'm wondering if perhaps there will be an adapter created in order to facilitate the Xbox Adaptive Controller to the PS5 like they have with the PS4?
As for potential solutions, I'm wondering if perhaps there will be an adapter created in order to facilitate the Xbox Adaptive Controller to the PS5 like they have with the PS4?
Holy crap... I hadn't thought of that. That's a really interesting idea. I wonder how feasible it is!