They are only doing well for their publishers because none of those are expected to be AAA games. FF outsells all of those and is making a loss for S-E now.
As far as AAA goes, it is a dying market for sure.
As far as AAA goes, it is a dying market for sure.
"core traditional rpg fans" also said that FF16 will be a disaster, and ther we have it, probably still selling better than Rebirth. Honestly the term "core rpg fans" every day sounds more like "core star wars fans" for me.
My point is. The term "JRPG" is no longer a term for just rpgs made in japan, even if the definition says so. A developer of any country can make a JRPG in the same level or even better than a japanese developer.
No one knows if Sony actually locked it up long term. Based on the changing exclusivity terms and timelines from game to game it sounds like they go from game to game rather than a deal that was set in stone 10 years ago.
Aside from that Square has had no interest or urgency in getting ports out since PC isn't ready when the contract is up. That's the actual part internally that has to change.
It's not Squares Job to make PlayStation a lucrative platform. Thats on Sony.
"Doing well" when it comes to JRPGs may have a different definition than some think. P3R likely hasn't hit 2M sold yet. Same with LAD and Granblue. And there's a lot of overlap between the owners of these games.
People like to point out Persona 5 but forget that it took them six games on multiple platforms and genres to get that series to 10M in sales, not to mention that there's lots of overlap in that series too (if you bought P5S, you probably own either P5 or P5R as well).
The number of humans that actually play these games I think would be shockingly small relative to other genres.
Yeah but an entire publisher making such a decision off of two games doesn't sound right. Hasn't square released other games that have also underperformed? Weren't there also studios they gave up? I mean......two blockbuster hits is not the only issue I think is happening with square if this is what they are boldly saying.
…As I said
All of this because I said DQ11 was already multiplatform so 12 was probably going to be multiplatform already even before this coming to at least PS5 and Switch 2. My god
They have a new CEO coming off the back of a CEO who got fired. He needs to answer to shareholders and show he's not a lame duck.
Of course, we also don't know if there's a deal in place for it either. We'll just have to see.
Their two biggest games. From their biggest IP.
When your biggest brand is suffering from 3 successive drop in sales, there is an issue.
those games are AAA though
if you're talking about sales I get they aren't FF levels but FF is dropping off/shrinking while those are growing
do you not think eventually they will swap or is the market too small for that?
consumers are fickle, something isn't absolute and maybe there is more growth for those franchises in the future
FFVII Remake trilogy, FFXVI and FFXVII on Switch 2 let's go!!!!
Also for anyone saying they won't work on that console, they absolutely will. Switch 2 is looking like a beast
Also for anyone saying they won't work on that console, they absolutely will. Switch 2 is looking like a beast
got it,
wonder if they should market these games, especially the more action orientated ones as just games and not niche JRPGs?
for example even FF16 had more newcomers then FF7
Dude, Tales Of, Persona, and Yakuza games are absolutely not AAA games. They do not have a fraction of development or marketing budget that classifies an AAA game for a modern publisher.
Well, let's see how that plays out. I can't see a single situation in which Square is turning down money from anyone...whether that be Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft.
There's always a way out. When I say no contract is in perpetuity, I meant that literally. Perpetuity contracts aren't allowed under common law systems and is almost always disallowed under civil law systems like Japan. Sony & Square wouldn't have made a contract that would be held up as invalid in a US court.
That'll never happen. Mobile has taken Japan by storm. Most of their mobile games are meh, but there's untapped potential there that they're definitely going to chase.
they are considered AAA, idk what you're talking about lol
Tales of Arise is AAA
the latest Like a Dragon is AAA
even Granblue Relink is AAA
AAA's range/scope is larger then you think, these companies call these games AAA too
In the situation where taking money in exchange of lower sales means each time, the compensation is lower, since lower sales means a devaluation of your brand, to the point it's not appealing anymore, neither to the customers or the companies who used to gave you money for that.
Interesting, didn't know that part about perpetuity contracts!
I'm sure something's been signed for Part 3 already but here's hoping SE dissolves it and launches the game on every major platform. Would be very hype.
One subtext of this is that despite Xbox being a tire fire, Final Fantasy XIV is likely doing decently well on the platform.
Have never seen Bandai, Cygames or Atlus call those games AAA and they have dont have that kinda budget otherwise their sales would be rly bad for the publishers behind them.
They are simply well produced games, don't need to be AAA for that.
I'm calling BS. Was the Avengers not taking into consideration? Losing Edios and Crystal Dynamics? Epic store? I mean, Octopath Traveler, DQ, Triangle Strategy all being on specific platforms exclusively themselves...etc etc...Long dev times between projects....You're telling me that none of those are also issues? This is all because of a Playstation exclusivity to 2 FF games?...... Yeah, no I'm not buying that.
If you said Forspoken and or Foamstars...that would me a ton more sense. Especially considering, neither, if not all Square games, didn't need to be exclusive anyways.
I don't know how to respond to this other than to say this is absolutely wrong. Would love to see even a single example of Sega or Bandai Namco as a publisher actually calling those games AAA.
That is and always will be, nonsense. We arent talking about developing for cross gen games. If you are to say what they are saying is true, you are basically saying that game lit cant exist on other platforms. And the OG poster I was talking too even said they are ok with later ports..... which lit means the original statement of scope being effected by # of platforms, is nonsense.
# of platforms doesnt matter. What those platforms are matters. The only thing one could argue is that the "polish" of the game may be effected. Even then, not by much
I'm gonna bookmark this for future reference. I'm sure we will revisit this when they decide to create yet, another, exclusive.
Can't comment on Granblue but Tales and Yakuza have always been a much lower budget series compared to something like Final Fantasy.
Yakuza especially reuses so many assets to be able to come out nearly annually. That low budget charm is part of why I like the series honestly. Basically prepare yourself for Yagami to somehow be in Hawaii for Judgment 3.
Have you missed the part where FFVII Rebirth's budget likely is ten times bigger than the one of Octopath and Triangle Strategy altogether ?
Or that, as I said, Final Fantasy is their biggest historic IP and that this IP in particular, combined with the fact that these 2 releases are likely their biggest titles in history, underperformed and keeps performing worse each time ?
They might. I mean, they likely still have on-going deals. And if they make new ones, it doesn't mean they'd be right. Then again, it's SE's who's talking about going multiplatform for AAA titles.
Do we have numbers or anything showing this. I was curious about how it's doing since It's been really quiet on my channels.
Well, part of this seemingly involves a greater strategy shift to lessening the number of overall games they develop, focusing on making fewer, "higher quality" games, and then expanding them to reach to as many people as possible by hitting all the main platforms. What prompted the shift, I mean you could look at how FF16 and FF7 Rebirth have done comparatively, but I believe the new CEO has talked about this before FF7 Rebirth even came out. People aren't wrong about SE already releasing games on multiple platforms, but specifically, they seem to indicate they want their big AAA games to be everywhere so they can reach more people, including and maybe especially Final Fantasy.
I mean I also think it is overblown but lets say CBU1/CS has a deadline of 3-4 years to get the game out then porting can definitely result in having to cut back in other areas.
...yes, the class is aware of what you said.
I was more talking about when you said
which I feel is incorrect.
Xbox is struggling and needs games. Squeenix is struggling and wants to sell games. DQ11 DE was Day 1 on Xbox. DQ12 Day 1 on Xbox makes sense.
But you say that it's not possible - why is it zero chance?
Getting games on PC in good state should be a priority, Switch 2 can wait a bit as it will take time to build up install base. Getting games on it in it's second year+ should be fine. Knowing SE they already got some exclusive signed with Nintendo for launch anyway lol.
this is the first time I heard people say those games aren't AAA
I wonder if I can find some fiscal slides or something about them...
Yep. I really think skipping day one release on PC for XVI and Rebirth was a mistake. Bandai Namco, SEGA and especially Capcom have show PC releases are well worth the effort.
Yeah, I'm not sure I'm putting Final Fantasy 16 and Tales of Arise in the same category of "AAA" here. Or, like, Elden Ring and Tales of Arise both being considered two AAA titles from Namco. Nothing against ToA!
Those aren't AAA, lol. No way Arise is
Granblue maaaaybe, but it's more of a Monster Hunter like game than a proper JRPG.
You should. I have never seen anyone call those games AAA.
This is honestly a really weird thread to read with a lot of narratives being interwoven with the data, hedging on some of the facts while ignoring others.
I am laughing because the expectation that Switch 2 will be powerful enough to support the next mainline Final Fantasy is silly. The TDP is just not there on any chip on the market and is still far away. I doubt even FSR/DLSS can make up for it. Just look at the Ally or the Deck for frame of reference where the tech is.
Japan as a market is more leaning to mobile and switch. playsation 5s in japan are still seen as Luxury Items over there and are still quite expensive and the stock situation for ps5s only got better around xvis release.
I fully expect playstation, switch 2 and mobile the focus in japan. Xbox in japan lets be honest post hifi rush closure.
the next few years are going to be interesting in the console market-
playstation is doing well but alot of their projects are in first or second year of dev at best
switch 2 soon - will it be another switch or another wii u
xbox - will the current team even be around by the time the next console is around i.e phil sarah bond etc.//- xbox to me is the most uncertain, if i was obsidain or hellblade devs id be might worried, the only studios safe there was ppl working on elder scrolls 6, the next fallout and playground games. Microsoft itself is now looking to look at xbox under the magnifying glass.
Alot of studios made a stupid assumption in thinking covid time sales would continue with people buying stuff as being stuck inside and it would continue and it just didnt.. but they hired and created and spent money based on that fact.
You are really underselling things by acting like it is "only" two games that they are making this decision based off of.
One of the games in question is the next numbered entry in what was one of the most prominent gaming franchises that had no issues doing numbers and the release of each entry was treated like an event. It did fine, but it's one where they had to highlight that they got a lot of new players as a means of making up for how their old playerbase did not turn up for the game. Also there's the absolutely embarrassing reality that the game specifically performed worse in their home territory than a number of other games that it should absolutely not have underperformed against.
The other game is a highly anticipated second part of a remake of THE best selling and most highly regarded game in that same franchise, and was following up a first part that sold extremely well. It also got ridiculously high reviews and should have been an event, but instead Square won't even make any comment about how it is performing because there seemingly is no way to spin the game's sales in a way that could be considered positive.
That may "only" be two games, but it's two big fucking games to be underperforming and it's not like they have anything else big coming out any time soon. That's a big deal.
I think its the easiest and most obvious thing to point towards.
I can't think of any AAA game from this console gen from SE that isn't tied to a single platform (in this gens case that being Playstation). And well AAA are the most important titles for big publishers.
Wait till you find out ER didn't have anything close to an AAA budget.
this ^ screams of just looking at the tweet/headline... hell ive seen journalists at forbes.... wrote an sensationalist and clickbaity article.
You've been here long enough to know that's just your typical SE thread.
The way people talk about Square (and gaming in general too, I'd say) changed a lot since the XV days.
A bit or a shame, I find myself enjoying gaming discussion a lot less than I used to.