TheCed

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,436
Playstation has the best Kh exclusive… the all-in-one version … which was $20!! At one point.

Buying everything on sale will still set you back like $100 on xbox rn

Square pls…. All in one… $60….
While KH is indeed developed by Square, let's not forget that it's a Disney property so in that situation. Maybe it's not Square's call.
 

SnakeEater

Member
Oct 31, 2017
600
Probably partial result of Sony not wanting to write huge checks for them either since last games didn't put a world on fire. Great fucking news.
 

IronFalcon1997

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jun 11, 2018
1,804
I am laughing because the expectation that Switch 2 will be powerful enough to support the next mainline Final Fantasy is silly. The TDP is just not there on any chip on the market and is still far away. I doubt even FSR/DLSS can make up for it. Just look at the Ally or the Deck for frame of reference where the tech is.
I'm sorry, but that's just not true. Switch 2 is far stronger than a Steam Deck will ever be. The known specs are out there, easily available, and quite impressive. It should be able to run it without much issue
 

unknown_nut

Member
Sep 12, 2022
1,623
Kingdom Hearts being exclusive to EGS was one of the most stupid decision SE made for the series. Way to kill any potential fanbase on PC. Even if it launches now on Steam, it wouldn't have sold as much as it would if there was no stupid Epic exclusivity.

Any game that launches exclusive or timed exclusive to EPIC will not get a sale from me or I'll wait for a big sale on Steam.
 

silentq15

Member
Aug 15, 2022
545
According to what we know, yes. We won't know for sure until we see clock speeds, but it's got 12 Gb of RAM in the CPU, a custom Nvidia GPU with Tensor cores for DLSS and Raytracing cores for...raytracing. Best estimates place docked mode a bit under Series in terms of raw horsepower, not factoring in the more modern architecture and DLSS
The only issue with this it will be starved for power. You can only apply so much power to a portable console even if the chip can hit that theoretical performance you are going to be restricted to low wattage due to heat concerns when docked and battery concerns when in portable. DF recently did a video on why for example the ROG Ally can't hit Series S performance and it all comes down to power.

Long story short unless the next FF Mainline game is low-fi(which is fine) it has a very low chance of being able to run on Switch 2.
 

Gure

Avenger
Oct 28, 2017
806
Wonder on what now the "low" sales of games like FFXVI and Rebirth will be blamed on? Nevertheless, good news overall.
 

Kuro

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,171
The only issue with this it will be starved for power. You can only apply so much power to a portable console even if the chip can hit that theoretical performance you are going to be restricted to low wattage due to heat concerns when docked and battery concerns when in portable. DF recently did a video on why for example the ROG Ally can't hit Series S performance and it all comes down to power.

Long story short unless the next FF Mainline game is low-fi(which is fine) it has a very low chance of being able to run on Switch 2.
This is the PC port which is based off of the PS5 version of the game that includes the PS5 exclusive Yuffie DLC running well over 30fps on the Steam Deck which is far weaker than Switch 2's specs.

This crap being parroted that the Switch 2 can't handle current gen games is nonsense. Those game will have to target lower end PC hardware which PS5/Series are usually more powerful than.


View: https://youtu.be/SlT_PnCgDjQ
 

Tycho Kepler

Unshakable Resolve
Member
Apr 22, 2018
2,290
I will repurchase FF7R if they put it on Switch 2

giphy.gif
 

Brodo Baggins

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,120
The only issue with this it will be starved for power. You can only apply so much power to a portable console even if the chip can hit that theoretical performance you are going to be restricted to low wattage due to heat concerns when docked and battery concerns when in portable. DF recently did a video on why for example the ROG Ally can't hit Series S performance and it all comes down to power.

Long story short unless the next FF Mainline game is low-fi(which is fine) it has a very low chance of being able to run on Switch 2.

Switch 2's chip should be stronger than the Steam Deck/base PS4 even in undocked mode. In docked mode it should be around PS4 Pro levels.

Tbh I think FF could and should consider locking their graphics at FFVII Intergrade levels so they can run on Switch and flawlessly on PS5 and instead focus on creating appealing games rather than technical marvels. They clearly can't keep up with the budget or technology thrown behind AAA first party games anymore.
 

Linus815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
20,115
This is the PC port which is based off of the PS5 version of the game that includes the PS5 exclusive Yuffie DLC running well over 30fps on the Steam Deck which is far weaker than Switch 2's specs.

This crap being parroted that the Switch 2 can't handle current gen games is nonsense. Those game will have to target lower end PC hardware which PS5/Series are usually more powerful than.


View: https://youtu.be/SlT_PnCgDjQ


yeah, people are kinda underestimating the scalability and developer skill here... like,the wizard game runs on a Switch ONE. Sure, it has some extra loading screens, but what a crazy technical achievement. A modern unreal 4 open world game running on 2015 tablet hardware.
 

Rickyrozay2o9

Member
Dec 11, 2017
4,651
Switch 2's chip should be stronger than the Steam Deck/base PS4 even in undocked mode. In docked mode it should be around PS4 Pro levels.

Tbh I think FF could and should consider locking their graphics at FFVII Intergrade levels so they can run on Switch and flawlessly on PS5 and instead focus on creating appealing games rather than technical marvels. They clearly can't keep up with the budget or technology thrown behind AAA first party games anymore.
The Switch 2 should easily be able to handle Remake/Intergrade but I think Rebirth will take a lot more work seeing with how big the game is, especially in its portable mode, you may not be able to just port down with that one. I also don't have any issues with the visuals of both games aside from its technical flaws of UE4 which there are plenty but realistically I don't see FF17 and onward which will be DURING the PS6 Era to be ported up from what the Switch 2 can handle. Nor do I think Square are going to cut the budget on any mainline FF title outside of other remakes and their lower AA titles. Just getting titles to Switch 2 and PC day and date should be enough but regardless it's going to take time.
 

Brodo Baggins

Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,120
The Switch 2 should easily be able to handle Remake/Intergrade but I think Rebirth will take a lot more work seeing with how big the game is, especially in its portable mode, you may not be able to just port down with that one. I also don't have any issues with the visuals of both games aside from its technical flaws of UE4 which there are plenty but realistically I don't see FF17 and onward which will be DURING the PS6 Era to be ported up from what the Switch 2 can handle. Nor do I think Square are going to cut the budget on any mainline FF title outside of other remakes and their lower AA titles. Just getting titles to Switch 2 and PC day and date should be enough but regardless it's going to take time.

I do think Rebirth would be hard to get working on the Switch, though with faster storage than a PS4 Pro it may not be impossible, but it surely wouldn't be pretty.

As for FFXVII onward I mean... They certainly could. It remains to be seen what they decide to do. The key thing is if SE think the strength of the brand lies mostly in high production values, then sure I can see them continuing to push technology beyond what the Switch 2 can handle.

There's another path forward where they scale a bit back to make sure their biggest games can launch on Switch, because in reality Playstation is a dying market in Japan whereas Nintendo is thriving.
 

Rickyrozay2o9

Member
Dec 11, 2017
4,651
There's another path forward where they scale a bit back to make sure their biggest games can launch on Switch, because in reality Playstation is a dying market in Japan whereas Nintendo is thriving.
Yeah, there's really no arguing that point. PC market out there is definitely rising but Nintendo would be the focus. I mean I guess we'll see, it's very possible 17 can just be a current gen/cross gen title when it releases making it easy enough to port. Then again FF as a brand could just sell more units on Nintendo hardware and ultimately that's where they choose to port from. We won't know what kind of numbers it'll do on the Switch for a while though and I don't know if FF7 is enough to gauge that because I think a good amount of people are just uninterested based on how that particular game is being rolled out. A single mainline title like 16 though would be a better test.
 

Jump_Button

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,834
Kingdom Hearts being exclusive to EGS was one of the most stupid decision SE made for the series. Way to kill any potential fanbase on PC. Even if it launches now on Steam, it wouldn't have sold as much as it would if there was no stupid Epic exclusivity.

Any game that launches exclusive or timed exclusive to EPIC will not get a sale from me or I'll wait for a big sale on Steam.
I dont get this mindset help me out
 

BladeX

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,146
This is the PC port which is based off of the PS5 version of the game that includes the PS5 exclusive Yuffie DLC running well over 30fps on the Steam Deck which is far weaker than Switch 2's specs.

This crap being parroted that the Switch 2 can't handle current gen games is nonsense. Those game will have to target lower end PC hardware which PS5/Series are usually more powerful than.


View: https://youtu.be/SlT_PnCgDjQ


I guess it depends on the game.

Sure Unreal Engine 4 shouldnt pose any issues and games could scale accordingly.

But other games? FFXVI for example? I dont know. I dont know how much of it must be changed for it to work and whether that sacrifice will be worth it.

Remember Witcher 3 on Nintendo hardware? is that considered a quality product? Something that deserves to be on the shelf? I dont know.
 

Terranigma

Member
Oct 27, 2017
896
I guess it depends on the game.

Sure Unreal Engine 4 shouldnt pose any issues and games could scale accordingly.

But other games? FFXVI for example? I dont know. I dont know how much of it must be changed for it to work and whether that sacrifice will be worth it.

Remember Witcher 3 on Nintendo hardware? is that considered a quality product? Something that deserves to be on the shelf? I dont know.


Maybe not for graphics snobs, but for most casual gamers its a perfectly fine port. Not everyone cares for 60fps 4k, it is still a perfectly fan playing title. Some people really need to look further then their own preferences and tastes.
 

Celestial Descend

Corrupted by Vengeance
Member
Aug 15, 2022
3,558
It's funny to see people say a Switch port can look so bad it doesn't deserve to exist. We've played XB2 with the worst image quality this decade. We played god damn Pokemon. Those are first party games. If a third party game can look as good as Nintendo's own offering, then yeah, it deserves to exist.
 

BladeX

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,146
Maybe not for graphics snobs, but for most casual gamers its a perfectly fine port. Not everyone cares for 60fps 4k, it is still a perfectly fan playing title. Some people really need to look further then their own preferences and tastes.

With all due respect there is no need for such wording and use of words, nor generalizing...

I also dont care for 60fps and 4k (i dont think any of the games I have played this gen was ever 60 fps and 4K native to begin with) but there is a huge gap between that and 20 fps and 540p...

I also never said that my preferences are some sort of rule, or universal truth. I ended my comment with the notion "i dont know" i.e. I am not sure.

Its not about being a "snob" and you shouldnt be using that word at all if you want to have a proper discussion. My comment was in no way provocative to merit such a response.

What I care is for games to be able to be created with nothing holding the developer back. I dont care if they manage to get FFVII part 3 to run on every damn console out there as long as the vision the devs had about this game isnt hindered or pushed back due to hardware limitations. And I have every damn right to have that opinion without some random dude on the internet calling me a snob.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,195
It's funny to see people say a Switch port can look so bad it doesn't deserve to exist. We've played XB2 with the worst image quality this decade. We played god damn Pokemon. Those are first party games. If a third party game can look as good as Nintendo's own offering, then yeah, it deserves to exist.

Seriously. Graphics don't really matter. None of the biggest games are tech showpieces.


What I care is for games to be able to be created with nothing holding the developer back.

Hardware always holds games back or maybe you only want PC exclusives?
 

Kenai

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,460
With all due respect there is no need for such wording and use of words, nor generalizing...

I also dont care for 60fps and 4k (i dont think any of the games I have played this gen was ever 60 fps and 4K native to begin with) but there is a huge gap between that and 20 fps and 540p...

I also never said that my preferences are some sort of rule, or universal truth. I ended my comment with the notion "i dont know" i.e. I am not sure.

Its not about being a "snob" and you shouldnt be using that word at all if you want to have a proper discussion. My comment was in no way provocative to merit such a response.

What I care is for games to be able to be created with nothing holding the developer back. I dont care if they manage to get FFVII part 3 to run on every damn console out there as long as the vision the devs had about this game isnt hindered or pushed back due to hardware limitations. And I have every damn right to have that opinion without some random dude on the internet calling me a snob.

The reality of the situation is that games/series need to make money back. Not being made at all/studios closing/cutting staff will hurt the developer far more than any perceived hardware limitations. Ask the many, many studios and teams who have been shuttered this generation alone even when they did everything they should have. That sht SE has been doing is/was not sustainable, and it's a very real concern for a lot of people (me included) that if SE kept being thickheaded they would genuinely run themselves into the ground sooner or later. XIV revenue is not going to last forever.

That's why there is a shakeup at all, it's why they are (apparently) finally treating their situation as seriously as it is. They don't need to be playing around and snubbing some of their (potentially) biggest markets yet again. They don't have the luxury. Even if they do a complete course correct today and start doing everything that they should immediately from a financial perspective, their success is not guaranteed.
 
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BladeX

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,146
The reality of the situation is that games/series need to make money back. Not being made at all/studios closing/cutting staff will hurt the developer far more than any perceived hardware limitations. Ask the many, many studios and teams who have been shuttered this generation alone even when they did everything they should have. That sht SE has been doing is/was not sustainable, and it's a very real concern for a lot of people (me included) that if SE kept being thickheaded they would genuinely run themselves into the ground sooner or later. XIV revenue is not going to last forever.

That's why there is a shakeup at all, it's why they are (apparently) finally treating their situation as seriously as it is. They don't need to be playing around and snubbing some of their (potentially) biggest markets yet again. They don't have the luxury. Even if they do a complete course correct today and start doing everything that they should immediately from a financial perspective, their success is not guaranteed.

You dont have to pinpoint those things to me. I am well aware of the gravity of the situation.

Having said that, I do not understand where you cross the line in all of this.

Why is even Switch the discussion here? It doesnt make sense. Before Switch there is PS4, Xbox One, I do not understand how Switch became the end all discussion.

It is not logical to design 2026 multiplatform games on Switch hardware. It just isnt. There has to be a line. Switch 2 seems totally capable as I have stated in the past. Of course that doesnt mean that they cant release other games that are probably not that demanding in all consoles. But a FFXVI just cant be designed with Switch in the mix. And to be honest I dont believe they need Switch to cover the issues that are troubling them. I believe PS4 and XBXONE install base can easily make up for the sales.

Otherwise where does it end? Should we include WiiU as well?
 

Kenai

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,460
You dont have to pinpoint those things to me. I am well aware of the gravity of the situation.

Having said that, I do not understand where you cross the line in all of this.

Why is even Switch the discussion here? It doesnt make sense. Before Switch there is PS4, Xbox One, I do not understand how Switch became the end all discussion.

It is not logical to design 2026 multiplatform games on Switch hardware. It just isnt. There has to be a line. Switch 2 seems totally capable as I have stated in the past. Of course that doesnt mean that they cant release other games that are probably not that demanding in all consoles. But a FFXVI just cant be designed with Switch in the mix. And to be honest I dont believe they need Switch to cover the issues that are troubling them. I believe PS4 and XBXONE install base can easily make up for the sales.

Otherwise where does it end? Should we include WiiU as well?

All discussion I have personally seen involves treating the Switch 2 as a serious platform going forward and putting their biggest titles there (and everywhere else) to maximize their potential audience. Which is based on SE's own announcement that includes mentioning Nintendo by name in their new plans for an "aggressive multi platform strategy". We've had people try to downplay the importance of the Switch 2 in their future plans for some reason, same with Xbox, effectively ignoring SE's own statement on the matter for some reason. No EGS exclusivity defenders at least (lmao).
 

Mephissto

Member
Mar 8, 2024
634
The Switch has a firm grip on the Japanese console market and the biggest market of FF is Japan.

So if SE wants to regain their numbers im Japan they have to develop with the Switch 2 at this point for better or worse.

If the games can reach Remake/Rebirth graphiclal fidelity on there I don't think it would be a bad move.
 

BladeX

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,146
All discussion I have personally seen involves treating the Switch 2 as a serious platform going forward and putting their biggest titles there (and everywhere else) to maximize their potential audience. Which is based on SE's own announcement that includes mentioning Nintendo by name in their new plans for an "aggressive multi platform strategy". We've had people try to downplay the importance of the Switch 2 in their future plans for some reason, same with Xbox, effectively ignoring SE's own statement on the matter for some reason. No EGS exclusivity defenders at least (lmao).

Switch 2 is totally fine with me. I have said so numerous times. Switch 2 makes sense. Switch, doesnt. At least when it comes down to a large scale production.
 

t67443

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,957
Kingdom Hearts being exclusive to EGS was one of the most stupid decision SE made for the series. Way to kill any potential fanbase on PC. Even if it launches now on Steam, it wouldn't have sold as much as it would if there was no stupid Epic exclusivity.

Any game that launches exclusive or timed exclusive to EPIC will not get a sale from me or I'll wait for a big sale on Steam.
Steam monopoly is the only solution.
 

Kenai

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,460
Switch 2 is totally fine with me. I have said so numerous times. Switch 2 makes sense. Switch, doesnt. At least when it comes down to a large scale production.

Well I don't know who is arguing otherwise with you? Switch successor is on the horizon with the presumed real specs leaked so it's close/dev kits should be available, and Switch releases have been winding down the last year or so from Nintendo and everyone else.

Steam monopoly is the only solution.

Being released on Steam doesn't prevent third parties from selling elsewhere. EGS exclusivity does (and also is a good way to keep the game from selling at all).
 

senj

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,572
While KH is indeed developed by Square, let's not forget that it's a Disney property so in that situation. Maybe it's not Square's call.
There are already a ton of other Disney properties on Steam and Xbox. The idea that for Kingdom Hearts specifically they'd be like "no as a condition of our license we insist it languish in obscurity on EGS forever and also you charge Xbox users 5x as much" seems pretty far fetched.
 

Linus815

Member
Oct 29, 2017
20,115
There are already a ton of other Disney properties on Steam. The idea that for Kingdom Hearts specifically they'd be like "no as a condition of our license we insist it languish in obscurity on EGS forever" seems pretty far fetched.

I guess we are at an impasse then, because there's also plenty of square properties on steam (infact, every previous EGS exclusive square game ASIDE from KH has been put on steam, including ultra niche stuff that barely sells like Neo TWEWY)
 

t67443

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,957
Being released on Steam doesn't prevent third parties from selling elsewhere. EGS exclusivity does (and also is a good way to keep the game from selling at all).
I just find it amazing that people seem to constantly beg for Steam to be the only place to purchase PC games and if a game gets released first anywhere else the game is dead to them entirely. If the next KH game gets released on EGS over Steam again why should that be such an issue?
 

senj

Member
Nov 6, 2017
4,572
I guess we are at an impasse then, because there's also plenty of square properties on steam (infact, every previous EGS exclusive square game ASIDE from KH has been put on steam, including ultra niche stuff that barely sells like Neo TWEWY)
Yeah but between Disney and Squeenix, Squeenix is the one with the rich history of making wildly inconsistent, bone-headed and self-defeating decisions.
 

Jump_Button

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,834
I just find it amazing that people seem to constantly beg for Steam to be the only place to purchase PC games and if a game gets released first anywhere else the game is dead to them entirely. If the next KH game gets released on EGS over Steam again why should that be such an issue?
Yeah I dont get it and not good for the games, Is it better a game go under then be only on EGS? dont get it at all
 

Kenai

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,460
I just find it amazing that people seem to constantly beg for Steam to be the only place to purchase PC games and if a game gets released first anywhere else the game is dead to them entirely. If the next KH game gets released on EGS over Steam again why should that be such an issue?

People aren't begging for Steam to be the only place to play games. They just want it to be included. Steam hasn't ever been perpetuating exclusivity garbage.

I don't want to go into the myriad reasons why EGS exclusivity has been where games to go to die for years (and if you don't care if it's EGS exclusive good for you) but EGS exclusivity would be the polar opposite of an "aggressive multiplatform strategy". EGS exclusive stuff does not sell well on PC, and it's probably never going to.

Yeah I dont get it and not good for the games, Is it better a game go under then be only on EGS? dont get it at all

How does a game being exclusive to EGS prevent it from going under if it doesn't sell? Do you think waiting/hoping for an EGS moneyhat is sustainable for a business? Because I don't.
 

Patapuf

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,489
Yeah I dont get it and not good for the games, Is it better a game go under then be only on EGS? dont get it at all

People don't use the store to buy games. The why doesn't even matter anymore.

If you release your game on that Store only it'll bomb. It's literally invisible to much of the audience that is willing to spend AAA prices on games

Epic used to give generous upfront payments but they stopped.
 

closer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,189
nice, can't wait for the multiple platformers they are developing, balan wonderworld was fire
 

Dinjoralo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,417
I'm hopeful this means more games from SE hit PC day one.

I dont get this mindset help me out
If Epic making games exclusive to their store is successful, then in time launcher exclusivity might become closer to the norm. PC gaming would turn into a fractured mess where everyone will have to manage multiple libraries, friend lists, pay attention to what games do or don't have cross-play across launchers, so on. It's all just going to be needless and annoying. And refusing to support needless, annoying junk is why there's no paid online on PC.
 

Jump_Button

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,834
I'm hopeful this means more games from SE hit PC day one.


If Epic making games exclusive to their store is successful, then in time launcher exclusivity might become closer to the norm. PC gaming would turn into a fractured mess where everyone will have to manage multiple libraries, friend lists, pay attention to what games do or don't have cross-play across launchers, so on. It's all just going to be needless and annoying. And refusing to support needless, annoying junk is why there's no paid online on PC.
is that not the point of PC is that you not tired down to one shop?
 

t67443

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,957
Again several people are asking for a single store to become a monopoly for PC games. If the only place to buy games for PC is Steam how is it positive overall? Why would they need to have sales going forward?

If this was any other company where we would have constant posts saying 'I will only purchase from this store otherwise the game should bomba,' we would look at them as if they were insane. It would be like saying Walmart is the only place I will ever shop and if it's not available at Walmart then I hope the product suffers.
 

Kenai

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,460
Again several people are asking for a single store to become a monopoly for PC games. If the only place to buy games for PC is Steam how is it positive overall? Why would they need to have sales going forward?

If this was any other company where we would have constant posts saying 'I will only purchase from this store otherwise the game should bomba,' we would look at them as if they were insane. It would be like saying Walmart is the only place I will ever shop and if it's not available at Walmart then I hope the product suffers.

Stuff being released on Steam isn't a monopoly just because you say it is.
 

XR.

Member
Nov 22, 2018
6,650
Again several people are asking for a single store to become a monopoly for PC games. If the only place to buy games for PC is Steam how is it positive overall? Why would they need to have sales going forward?

If this was any other company where we would have constant posts saying 'I will only purchase from this store otherwise the game should bomba,' we would look at them as if they were insane. It would be like saying Walmart is the only place I will ever shop and if it's not available at Walmart then I hope the product suffers.
You can buy Steam games from over 100 stores, it's not a monopoly in any relevant context. We can talk about the doom of PC once we actually get there, we've seen this type of fearmongering for over 20 years at this point.