Star Trek: Discovery - Season 5 | The Vulcan Goodbye

[maabus1999]

I still find the antiheroes or villains 10x more interesting then the main cast (minus Season 4). Probably the least attached to any crew I've felt in any of those shows. And, yes, the quote "Burnham saves the Galaxy" is probably the biggest issue because that itself is antithesis to most other Star Trek shows.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

I begged for sexy, sweaty, shirtless Book before this season and... we actually got it lol. 10/10 episode for that alone *pants*

Was expecting to hate this half-way through, and surprisingly, I actually ended up not minding it. A turn-your-brain off, zero-plot-progression filler episode with a heaping dose of convenience, yes... but the trip down memory lane and seeing how much Michael has progressed as a character was nice. I wish it had more tension though and the time bug making them only lose 6 hours does nothing at all to raise the stakes. Actually felt the character moments on the bridge and engineering were not as melodramatic or overly sentimental as Discovery typically gets and handled much better. I hope Rayner still continues to act as a counterbalance to the Disco crew and they don't go too overboard with the lessons in empathy he's being taught.

Spoiler

Okay I'm gonna say one thing: goddamn Rhys, you only tell Rayner one thing about being a ship nerd and apparently that's enough to get you to stand down when a random stranger from the future tells you he knows you? Rayner doesn't know you because he recited some basic trivia about you unless you have the character depth of a puddle! WHICH WE JUST COMPLAINED ABOUT EARLIER IN THIS THREAD ARRRRRRRRRRRRRGH okay I should've just kept my big mouth shut

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Impossible not to chuckle during this scene and its narrative convenience lol. I wish they had left that on the cutting room floor or had past Michael come by herself because the Rayner monologue to her hit all the right notes and was all that was needed.

I don't think the Burnham convincing Ariam bit worked.
Michael - you sacrifice yourself for everyone on the ship.
Everyone else - Ariam would NEVER do that.
Ariam - Actually, I would.

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Yeah, this moment too was one of those head-shakers. The rest of that bridge scene was pretty good though IMO.

 

[Mister Ursine]

I really enjoyed this episode. Especially the last scene on the bridge, everyone just casually enjoying each other's company. And mirror match fight scenes are always fun.

 

[firehawk12]

I really needed a comfort food episode and this episode really fit the bill. Strangely it felt like it could have been a SNW episode.

And they tried to make the bridge crew people, even if they had to use the one fact they seeded about the characters in the previous seasons to show how well Michael knows them.

Also I guess this explains why they wrote Nilsson off if they wanted to bring back the actress' other character and maybe she had limited availability.

 

[Sotha_Sil]

The two showdowns on the bridge and engineering were mega plot armor. In typical nu-Trek fashion, we got two meaningless fist fight sequences. Whatever, still one of the more enjoyable Discovery episodes. Overall, a good spin on a classic TNG episode. I got a few chuckles from Stamets.

Thinking on it a bit more, this episode really shows how completely nothing all the supporting bridge crew members are.

 

[firehawk12]

I don't think the Burnham convincing Ariam bit worked.
Michael - you sacrifice yourself for everyone on the ship.
Everyone else - Ariam would NEVER do that.
Ariam - Actually, I would.

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Yeah, this moment too was one of those head-shakers. The rest of that bridge scene was pretty good though IMO.

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I feel like this is like knowing how someone would respond to the Kobayashi Maru test, which is something you're not supposed to talk about. It's a fundamental truth about the character that they understand about themselves.

The two showdowns on the bridge and engineering were mega plot armor. In typical nu-Trek fashion, we got two meaningless fist fight sequences. Whatever, still one of the more enjoyable Discovery episodes. Overall, a good spin on a classic TNG episode. I got a few chuckles from Stamets.

Thinking on it a bit more, this episode really shows how completely nothing all the supporting bridge crew members are.

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It's really too bad because as much as I hate Picard S3, I can at least appreciate the idea of a TNG reunion. I'm not sure if 30 years from now people are going to be clamoring to see the old Discovery bridge and this crew get back together.

 

[TheDestructiveSquirrel]

I liked it but laughed when Michael said she wants her bridge crew to be more involved

 

[Sotha_Sil]

It's really too bad because as much as I hate Picard S3, I can at least appreciate the idea of a TNG reunion. I'm not sure if 30 years from now people are going to be clamoring to see the old Discovery bridge and this crew get back together.

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Nobody is even going to remember half the names of these characters five years from now. Shit, I still can't name all of them and I've watched every episode. Feels crazy for a Star Trek show in Season 5.

 

[JackSwift]

Felt very SNW-ish. Liked it a lot. Was pretty much a proper way to welcome/accept Rayner into the Discovery family.

 

[Tukarrs]

I feel like this is like knowing how someone would respond to the Kobayashi Maru test, which is something you're not supposed to talk about. It's a fundamental truth about the character that they understand about themselves.

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I would hope that most officers would sacrifice themselves to save their ship/the galaxy.

And Rhys' favorite ship being the Constitution Class also seems like it would be a super common opinion. After all it's selected for the flagship Enterprise.

It's a weak spot in an otherwise great episode.

 

[Dalek]

Great episode. Reminded me of some of my favorite TNG types of episodes.

 

[firehawk12]

I would hope that most officers would sacrifice themselves to save their ship/the galaxy.

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It's non-canon, but the books explored the different ways the officers tackled the test based on their personality. I remember one of them decided not to the cross the neutral zone and just warped away and left the ship on its own because they didn't want to potentially start a war.

Actually, I guess there is technically a third canon depiction that is a variant of the Kirk solution:

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQCMPscdjU8

I can see it as being a leap, but again because the character didn't have much going for them other than being the cyborg and we only saw them get developed in the very episode that they died. I think if they did a similar story with Hemmer and Uhura in SNW, it'd be more believable because there's a history - not just for the characters, but for the audience as well. But at least I think the idea is sound.

Nobody is even going to remember half the names of these characters five years from now. Shit, I still can't name all of them and I've watched every episode. Feels crazy for a Star Trek show in Season 5.

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Yeah, they've said the Asian guy's name enough that I know it's Rhys, but I still think of him as "Asian guy" first.

It seemed by design that focusing on Michael was supposed to be a "Lower Decks" like situation where the main character of the show isn't part of the command staff and everyone starts off hating her. It's very Mariner, actually. She basically has one friend in Tilly at first, before connecting with Saru and evil Georgieu.

Then S2 made Pike, Spock and Una part of the bridge crew to have a familiar dynamic we see every other Star Trek show, but of course that's gone in S3. While S2 did a lot to create the conditions to allow SNW to be created by having that core trio become fully fleshed out characters, it also did a disservice to Discovery because S3 was about trying to play catchup with a bunch of named extras that Michael barely has a connection with and it took them basically two seasons to try to create the conditions that allowed this episode's ending to happen.

 

[Soap]

I think you can attribute that to Singer leaving and then having showrunners constantly changing hands in the first 3 seasons. I remember all the pre-release interviews talking about how there would be more focus away from the bridge, that Culber wasn't the chief medical officer or that Stamets wasn't the chief engineer (or science officer) but the problem with that id they put all the urgency in these supposedly lower level crew members that they may as well have been the bridge crew

 

[Himynameischris]

That was such a fun episode, I really wish the writers had made Michael say "...from here to there" when she tells herself "it's been a long road"

 

[Digital Dinosaur]

For a moment I reaaally though this episode was about to explain Calypso as a possible future temporarily caused by the time bug shifting.

 

[TheDestructiveSquirrel]

If time bugs are that OP it's amazing that there is anyone alive in that time period

 

[Digital Dinosaur]

If time bugs are that OP it's amazing that there is anyone alive in that time period

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I guess this is why there's a hardcore ban on time travel technology of any kind. When it got to the point devices like that were possible.

Of course with how time war works there probably were futures were everything was destroyed by such devices.

 

[TheDestructiveSquirrel]

I guess this is why there's a hardcore ban on time travel technology of any kind. When it got to the point devices like that were possible.

Of course with how time war works there probably were futures were everything was destroyed by such devices.

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Yet the person who had the tech got double crossed and killed lol :p

Anyone else keep thinking Moll is the same character as Shin Hati in Ahsoka?

 

[DBT85]

For a moment I reaaally though this episode was about to explain Calypso as a possible future temporarily caused by the time bug shifting.

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Yeah I got all excited that it was going to tie in to that too.

 

[Stormy_One_Kenobi]

Really good episode.

As to a re-union down the road, it would not be with the bridge crew. It would be with Burnham, Stamets, Tilly, Culber, Saru. Those are the focal points of this show. Most are not bridge crew. And thats fine. Nothing wrong with that. I will forever be glad that discovery brought Trek back to the small screen. This will, if nothing else, likely be a situation where this show is looked at more fondly over time than when it aired. Voyager and Enterpise are the same way. But I will always like it. Now and in the future. Gave us a different version of Trek, and I always applaud that, even if it doesn't always land the way everyone hopes.

 

[Mister Ursine]

Really good episode.

As to a re-union down the road, it would not be with the bridge crew. It would be with Burnham, Stamets, Tilly, Culber, Saru. Those are the focal points of this show. Most are not bridge crew. And thats fine. Nothing wrong with that. I will forever be glad that discovery brought Trek back to the small screen. This will, if nothing else, likely be a situation where this show is looked at more fondly over time than when it aired. Voyager and Enterpise are the same way. But I will always like it. Now and in the future. Gave us a different version of Trek, and I always applaud that, even if it doesn't always land the way everyone hopes.

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Yeah, it'll find its fans as the years go on. Even watching week to week, I don't think the show has ever been outright wretched. You look at a contemporary show like Picard which had 2 really, really bad seasons; Discovery never reached those depths. The positives always outweight the negatives, even when I personally might've be a little burnt out on the season long arc. Who knows, that structure of storytelling might play better on a binge for future viewers.

Only thing that aged like milk is that Elon shoutout in Season 1 lol

 

[StevieP]

Yeah, it'll find its fans as the years go on. Even watching week to week, I don't think the show has ever been outright wretched. You look at a contemporary show like Picard which had 2 really, really bad seasons; Discovery never reached those depths. The positives always outweight the negatives, even when I personally might've be a little burnt out on the season long arc. Who knows, that structure of storytelling might play better on a binge for future viewers.

Only thing that aged like milk is that Elon shoutout in Season 1 lol

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I'll take a binge rewatch of Picard Season 2 over Season 1 discovery 11 times out of 10. But that's precisely the point of this past episode. It was really bad, and it's in a much better spot now.

 

[Serebii]

Yeah, Discovery really found its footing when it hit the 32nd Century. Season 2 was solid enough too. Season 1...I was ehhh with. I have no desire to ever rewatch it. The rest though, would love to

I'm sad it's ending because I really enjoyed Season 4 and I am really enjoying Season 5. Only thing that holds Season 3 back is the unnecessary two parter where they go back to the mirror universe in the 23rd century.

 

[StevieP]

Yeah, Discovery really found its footing when it hit the 32nd Century. Season 2 was solid enough too. Season 1...I was ehhh with. I have no desire to ever rewatch it. The rest though, would love to

I'm sad it's ending because I really enjoyed Season 4 and I am really enjoying Season 5. Only thing that holds Season 3 back is the unnecessary two parter where they go back to the mirror universe in the 23rd century.

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I have some bad news about the next episode...

 

[lorddarkflare]

Yeah, Discovery really found its footing when it hit the 32nd Century. Season 2 was solid enough too. Season 1...I was ehhh with. I have no desire to ever rewatch it. The rest though, would love to

I'm sad it's ending because I really enjoyed Season 4 and I am really enjoying Season 5. Only thing that holds Season 3 back is the unnecessary two parter where they go back to the mirror universe in the 23rd century.

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The time loop episode of season 1 is sooooooo good though. It is actually the main one to revisit.

 

[Himynameischris]

Yeah, it'll find its fans as the years go on. Even watching week to week, I don't think the show has ever been outright wretched. You look at a contemporary show like Picard which had 2 really, really bad seasons; Discovery never reached those depths. The positives always outweight the negatives, even when I personally might've be a little burnt out on the season long arc. Who knows, that structure of storytelling might play better on a binge for future viewers.

Only thing that aged like milk is that Elon shoutout in Season 1 lol

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Tbh the musk thing was from evil lorca lol

 

[Nooblet]

Yeah, it'll find its fans as the years go on. Even watching week to week, I don't think the show has ever been outright wretched. You look at a contemporary show like Picard which had 2 really, really bad seasons; Discovery never reached those depths. The positives always outweight the negatives, even when I personally might've be a little burnt out on the season long arc. Who knows, that structure of storytelling might play better on a binge for future viewers.

Only thing that aged like milk is that Elon shoutout in Season 1 lol

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I have a friend who's watched all Trek and is a sci fi fan, but never even started Discovery. Because Discovery was first of nu trek, he had no expectations from it. And first season wasn't really...very good. Then it just went under the radar.

Strange New Worlds he watched because of Pike and Enterprise, and Picard cause it's Picard. He liked SNW, hated Picard S1 and S2 so much that he never bothered with S3.

I give Discovery a lot of credit for being trek back and making it relevant again as it had a very tough road ahead of it being the first one. And then when it changed the time period, that was the best thing to happen to the show and it put the show in a unique place. But if people weren't following it, they wouldn't even know it is the far future Trek.

 

[DBT85]

Enjoyed it from the start 🤷‍♂️

 

[GulAtiCa]

Really loved last nights episode

 

[Himynameischris]

View: https://twitter.com/TrekLive/status/1781325691587584511

 

[chrominance]

I'd have to rewatch the first season (which tbh I don't have much of a desire to do but whatever) but I still feel like the second season is the one I like the least. The first season made some odd choices (especially when it comes to ending the Klingon War) but I do at least feel like it was doing interesting things, versus season 2 when it's just a big puzzle box setup.

To the question someone posed above, I'd happily watch Discovery season 1 again over Picard season 2. If I never have to watch that dreck again it'd be too soon.

 

[Tukarrs]

I still think Seasons 1/2 of Discovery were the better seasons. Season 3 was disappointing in their use of the premise and the reveal didn't really work. Season 4 had massive pacing issues for an otherwise very interesting season story.

I think part of it is I prefer Michael/Ash pairing over the Michael/Booker pairing.

(And it's all better than Picard S2/S3)

 

[Shorty11857]

Enjoyed this week's episode, Discovery has never been the best Star Trek but will always appreciate for bringing it back in a big way. One day I'll remember the names of the bridge crew, one day

 

[firehawk12]

Really good episode.

As to a re-union down the road, it would not be with the bridge crew. It would be with Burnham, Stamets, Tilly, Culber, Saru. Those are the focal points of this show. Most are not bridge crew. And thats fine. Nothing wrong with that. I will forever be glad that discovery brought Trek back to the small screen. This will, if nothing else, likely be a situation where this show is looked at more fondly over time than when it aired. Voyager and Enterpise are the same way. But I will always like it. Now and in the future. Gave us a different version of Trek, and I always applaud that, even if it doesn't always land the way everyone hopes.

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I think like TNG, if I ever rewatch the show I'll never watch S1 again. I deleted it from my mind for the most part, except the aforementioned Elon Musk worshipping reference, but maybe it's not as bad as I remember especially with Picard.

It's weird because I guess all the shows really have pairings and then crew dynamics that bring pairings together - it's why Steve Shives was able to make a nearly 1 hour video about "Star Trek BFFs" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jInXqq_ESE - and Bashir/O'Brien is arguably the most important friendship in the franchise, and I think Michael and Saru is definitely up in that tier of Trek pairings, with Michael and Tilly being somewhere in the middle by virtue of her disappearing for half the series, but I'm not sure if it matters if the entire cast got back together for a Discovery movie.

I assume if there was some kind of reunion special, it'd be Michael and Booker on a mission and they need to ask Saru for help as the President of the Federation or something. If no one else showed up, I don't think people would notice the big absence. Kind of like if they did an Enterprise reunion and forgot Travis Mayweather.

Unlike say, Picard S3 and the conspicuous absence of Wesley Crusher anyway.

 

[DrEvil]

They had a PERFECT opportunity to tie up the Short Treks "Calypso" loose end with this time skipping episode and yet, nada. Still had fun with this one though, I enjoy a good time travel romp.

I hope they somehow touch on it before the series is thru.

For a moment I reaaally though this episode was about to explain Calypso as a possible future temporarily caused by the time bug shifting.

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There are dozens of us!

 

[chrominance]

I think it wouldn't really have made sense to bring Calypso into this because it feels like the point of that future scene was to explain the stakes if Burnhan and Rayner failed. That doesn't really work with Calypso, which had the ship in hiding waiting for something. Here Discovery and Zora are basically waiting to die. Plus it would retroactively make Calypso non-canon, since in the episode it's a future that's intended to be avoided.

 

[Himynameischris]

I saw some ideas about Calypso having been a dream Zora had

 

[Wrexis]

Yeah, it'll find its fans as the years go on. Even watching week to week, I don't think the show has ever been outright wretched.

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Even Enterprise found its place years later, yeah.

 

[MrKlaw]

fun episode.

I don't get how Discovery - who got the clue on Trill, and can warp to anywhere instantly - was hours behind Moll and the other one? Or is the opening supposed to suggest they found the coordinates some other way? Or are we assuming Moll saw the coordinates on trill directly?

 

[Serebii]

fun episode.

I don't get how Discovery - who got the clue on Trill, and can warp to anywhere instantly - was hours behind Moll and the other one? Or is the opening supposed to suggest they found the coordinates some other way? Or are we assuming Moll saw the coordinates on trill directly?

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They mentioned at the end of the last episode that they had to get permission to enter the area of the next clue as it is owned by the Tzenkethi. So legal red tape slowing them down

 

[lorddarkflare]

Yeah, it'll find its fans as the years go on. Even watching week to week, I don't think the show has ever been outright wretched. You look at a contemporary show like Picard which had 2 really, really bad seasons; Discovery never reached those depths. The positives always outweight the negatives, even when I personally might've be a little burnt out on the season long arc. Who knows, that structure of storytelling might play better on a binge for future viewers.

Only thing that aged like milk is that Elon shoutout in Season 1 lol

Click to shrink...

As someone currently binging the show right now: It holds up a lot better under a binge than it does watching week-to-week.

The biggest thing you gotta accept is that big swathes of season 1 don't watch like a traditional Trek show. This is really distracting.

I think "Magic To Make The Sanest Man Go Mad" is one of my all time favorite Trek episodes.

But starting with season 2 on is when the show really starts to properly pull itself together.

One thing is undeniably clear and I believe to be the BIGGEST actual mistake with the show: Burnham should have been captain by early-mid season 2 (an in ideal world, Pike should have been the second half of season 1). At LATEST by the end of season 2. Waiting so long was catastrophic and the show did not truly begin to consistently produce good episodes until they did that. Lesson: only the Captain can have main character energy.

 

[OneTrueJack]

Even though they didn't know this was the last season, this was a perfect last season episode. Such a fun trip down memory lane and a full-circle moment for the show.

The only missed opportunity is that they didn't use the time warps to have one last scene with Michael and Spock. If they had known this was the end then they probably would have made sure to include that. Great stuff otherwise.

 

[ImaPlayThis]

Another episode I enjoyed, really liking season 5 so far, although I've never been a Discovery hater. Was great to see the Breen and their lore being explored

 

[Soap]

I enjoyed it but I can't say I like the

Spoiler

breen design. I preferred the idea that they were canine in nature. Mind you this is as close to a DS9 connection as we are going to get lol

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

Found this episode boring. Moll and La'k are vague archetypes that haven't given the viewer any reason to invest in them so devoting most of the episode to a convoluted backstory doesn't work on a narrative or thematic level. Couple that with the fact their motivations are simplistic without any compelling circumstances to inform them and you just don't have a lot to work with. The Breen face reveal was pretty underwhelming and I still don't understand why, exactly, La'k was disgraced. Clunky exposition all around.

Would've much preferred flashbacks to contextualize what happened with the Terrans on the mirror Enterprise instead... kind of a waste of that story to tease it and then dip. I do enjoy the dynamic between Michael and Book, Rayner was really good once again but the season is becoming a little too repetitive with its wild goose chase. Hopefully things get back on track and become a little less conventional going forward.

 

[CorKas64]

I can't unsee this and I'm worried it's going to affect DS9 on my next rewatch. Hopefully I'll be over it tomorrow.

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

I can't unsee this and I'm worried it's going to affect DS9 on my next rewatch. Hopefully I'll be over it tomorrow.

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Looks like a Borg tbh...

 

[QuigleyMcShine]

I'm intrigued by the Breen reveals but I'm not sure I really understand them yet. I'm not really sure whether L'ak was in trouble for showing his transparent face, his non-transparent face, or kissing a white girl.

 

[chrominance]

Found this episode boring. Moll and La'k are vague archetypes that haven't given the viewer any reason to invest in them so devoting most of the episode to a convoluted backstory doesn't work on a narrative or thematic level. Couple that with the fact their motivations are simplistic without any compelling circumstances to inform them and you just don't have a lot to work with. The Breen face reveal was pretty underwhelming and I still don't understand why, exactly, La'k was disgraced. Clunky exposition all around.

Would've much preferred flashbacks to contextualize what happened with the Terrans on the mirror Enterprise instead... kind of a waste of that story to tease it and then dip. I do enjoy the dynamic between Michael and Book, Rayner was really good once again but the season is becoming a little too repetitive with its wild goose chase. Hopefully things get back on track and become a little less conventional going forward.

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Honestly I assume the Enterprise was used so they could reuse the Strange New Worlds set.

I'm kind of with you on the episode, but there's a part of me that wants to be more generous? Like the biggest problem I had with the episode was that it felt very mechanical. It's an episode we needed at this juncture to fill in the blanks on some characters we've only recently gotten to know, but it's really obvious about the way it set up the pieces I guess. But that also feels like an unfair criticism because the story does need us to be a bit more invested in Moll and La'k, they're obviously not intended to just be moustache-twirlers and we needed an explanation as to why. Similarly we have to see Book navigate his relationship with Moll, and Rayner's redemption arc (not that he really needs one but hey that's where the show's going so whatever). So it's a crucial episode and arguably it gets the job done.

I dunno, maybe it's just a sign that I'm ready to be done with Discovery in general. Not that it's bad or anything, just that it's not doing that much for me this season. But hey, at least we get more Adam Jensen.

 

[Digital Dinosaur]

I expect there's going to be more with the ISS Enterprise. Burnam almost looks at the camera when she muses there must be quite a story to how this ship got here, wowzers. Especially since they didn't just blow it up at the end but took pains to deliver it back to HQ. I would be VERY interested in seeing an original Connie refit with 32nd century upgrades.

Elsewhere I've seen the frankly fantastic suggestion that a refit Enterprise could end up being the training ship in Starfleet Academy - saving a ton of money and soundstage space over building new sets just for that show.