Star Trek: Discovery - Season 5 | The Vulcan Goodbye

[Digital Dinosaur]

L'ak's dying words being "fuck my people" basically, did feel real and there was some emotion there. And I really like how just a few lines and conversations have successfully characterized the Breen as real loathsome types who have found a unique way to be assholes in Trek: fighting among themselves constantly and leaving damaged 3rd party civilizations in their wake.

As for the season progress, I like the idea of a treasure hunt. And conceptually, finding out the full truth of the Progenitors is some juicy Star Trek. But if they were going to do a race-for-the-treasure I think it should have totally committed to the plot. Moll and L'ak should have just been the FIRST troublemakers to join the race. Them trying to offload the first clue shoulda triggered the info to spiral out of control. And resulted in 90% of the alpha quadrant falling over itself.

It would have been a perfect chance to arrange glimpses of other 32nd century players. Imagine a Klingon crew showing up in passing.

 

[tidewatersouthern]

It would have been a perfect chance to arrange glimpses of other 32nd century players. Imagine a Klingon crew showing up in passing.

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Are we going to get to see what the Klingons are up to in the 32nd century? I suppose there's still the Academy series that could show us, but I feel like it's a pretty glaring omission if Discovery starts with a war with the Klingons and doesn't wrap back around to that at some point.

 

[Dalek]

Goddamn when that Breen ship showed up.

 

[Wrexis]

Kind of feeling this season is fizzling out to me and I suppose others feel that too looking at how active this thread is… It's all kind of boring.

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Honestly the whole season is starting to feel kinda pointless. After years of "We have to save the galaxy!" storylines (which were overdone I grant you), this storyline seems pretty forgettable.

Goddamn when that Breen ship showed up.

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Yeah that was a badass moment, especially to see the Federation scared. Shows how badly they lost in the Burn really.

Anyone want to take bets that they'll destroy the Progenitor tech by the end of the season? Or share it with everyone. It's either too powerful for one group to have, so either no-one should have it or everyone should.

 

[firehawk12]

Honestly the whole season is starting to feel kinda pointless. After years of "We have to save the galaxy!" storylines (which were overdone I grant you), this storyline seems pretty forgettable.



Yeah that was a badass moment, especially to see the Federation scared. Shows how badly they lost in the Burn really.

Anyone want to take bets that they'll destroy the Progenitor tech by the end of the season? Or share it with everyone. It's either too powerful for one group to have, so either no-one should have it or everyone should.

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Let the Galaxy aliens eat it, solve everyone's problems.

 

[TheDestructiveSquirrel]

It'll actually just be a recipe for romulan ale

 

[chrominance]

I don't mind L'ak, though I still don't feel like I really understand why he hates his people so much. The Breen are assholes so whatever, we don't really need the justification I suppose. I don't really feel the angst around Moll handing herself over to the Breen, though, so Book being the lone objector yet again didn't really have any weight. It's wrong, he says. I guess? Who cares? I dunno. I don't really care that much about either Moll or L'ak and at this point I'd be fine if they both exited stage left. (I would've been fine if they'd done it several episodes ago, actually--curious how the best episodes of the season, the previous episode and the time bug episode, don't involve them at all!)

I had so completely forgotten that Discovery still had its spore drive that earlier in the episode I was like "boy, it'd be handy if you still had the spore drive that you decided was no longer worth it and is kind of the only reason people care about Discovery, huh?" only to remember at the very end that actually they DO still have the spore drive, I forgot that at the start of the season it was Book's ship that they removed the spore drive from and then abandoned the technology so Discovery would forever be the only one because reasons.

Oh, Reno was kind of fun this time around, even though she was basically exposition bot this episode. What is it with engineers and their weird side hustles?

Honestly the whole season is starting to feel kinda pointless. After years of "We have to save the galaxy!" storylines (which were overdone I grant you), this storyline seems pretty forgettable.

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Forgettable because it's not enough "we have to save the galaxy!" or because it still is "we have to save the galaxy!" and you've just finally hit your limit of those?

 

[Himynameischris]

View: https://twitter.com/gaghyogi49/status/1788660209574952985

 

[firehawk12]

I don't mind L'ak, though I still don't feel like I really understand why he hates his people so much. The Breen are assholes so whatever, we don't really need the justification I suppose. I don't really feel the angst around Moll handing herself over to the Breen, though, so Book being the lone objector yet again didn't really have any weight. It's wrong, he says. I guess? Who cares? I dunno. I don't really care that much about either Moll or L'ak and at this point I'd be fine if they both exited stage left. (I would've been fine if they'd done it several episodes ago, actually--curious how the best episodes of the season, the previous episode and the time bug episode, don't involve them at all!)

I had so completely forgotten that Discovery still had its spore drive that earlier in the episode I was like "boy, it'd be handy if you still had the spore drive that you decided was no longer worth it and is kind of the only reason people care about Discovery, huh?" only to remember at the very end that actually they DO still have the spore drive, I forgot that at the start of the season it was Book's ship that they removed the spore drive from and then abandoned the technology so Discovery would forever be the only one because reasons.

Oh, Reno was kind of fun this time around, even though she was basically exposition bot this episode. What is it with engineers and their weird side hustles?



Forgettable because it's not enough "we have to save the galaxy!" or because it still is "we have to save the galaxy!" and you've just finally hit your limit of those?

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I was reminded on TBBS that Adira Tal has a trill symbiote so it kind of doesn't make sense she feels so inexperienced when she has several lifetimes of experiences to draw from... including a Starfleet Admiral.

 

[TheBlackMarvel]

I was reminded on TBBS that Adira Tal has a trill symbiote so it kind of doesn't make sense she feels so inexperienced when she has several lifetimes of experiences to draw from... including a Starfleet Admiral.

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I thought they removed the symbiote?

 

[Soap]

Are we going to get to see what the Klingons are up to in the 32nd century? I suppose there's still the Academy series that could show us, but I feel like it's a pretty glaring omission if Discovery starts with a war with the Klingons and doesn't wrap back around to that at some point.

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I feel like they don't want to deal with the Klingons because they will have to deal with the redesign. I think it's fair to say that the showrunners came to the conclusion the Discovery Klingons were not working.

 

[Serebii]

I was reminded on TBBS that Adira Tal has a trill symbiote so it kind of doesn't make sense she feels so inexperienced when she has several lifetimes of experiences to draw from... including a Starfleet Admiral.

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Even Ezri had self doubt despite the hundreds of years of the Dax symbiont

 

[tidewatersouthern]

I feel like they don't want to deal with the Klingons because they will have to deal with the redesign. I think it's fair to say that the showrunners came to the conclusion the Discovery Klingons were not working.

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But they've already retconned the retcon and we've seen TNG style Klingons on SNW…which is yet another retcon, but whatevs. We've also seen traditional Klingons on every other show since (Picard, Prodigy and Lower Decks have all had regular Klingons). They recognized after Season 1 that design wasn't working and modified it to be "closer" to the familiar designs for season 2. I agree they came to that conclusion, but they started doing something about that years ago, and they could easily just do the TNG style Klingons and no one would bat an eye at this point.

 

[rsfour]

I couldn't even finish the whistling ep or whatever it was.

Worth finishing that, and the latest one?

 

[GungHo]

I wasn't that impressed with the episode despite the giant Breen ship.

 

[firehawk12]

I thought they removed the symbiote?

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I thought so too, but Memory Alpha implies that they're still the host at least.

Even Ezri had self doubt despite the hundreds of years of the Dax symbiont

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I guess there's the fact that she's new at having a host and all that, and Adira wa an "emergency host". But I don't think they even mentioned Tal in the episode at all, unless I missed it. It feels like a Rayner thing to say - "I read your file, weren't you an Admiral once?"

 

[Himynameischris]

I didn't like Moll attempting escape, I mean star fleet still hasn't figured out proper security a thousand years from now?

 

[StevieP]

I didn't like Moll attempting escape, I mean star fleet still hasn't figured out proper security a thousand years from now?

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The only sure thing in all of star trek is absolutely garbage security. And also having surveillance everywhere when the plot needs it and nowhere when it doesn't in every single series.

 

[Himynameischris]

The only sure thing in all of star trek is absolutely garbage security. And also having surveillance everywhere when the plot needs it and nowhere when it doesn't in every single series.

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Yeah it's so annoying lol

 

[chrominance]

The only sure thing in all of star trek is absolutely garbage security. And also having surveillance everywhere when the plot needs it and nowhere when it doesn't in every single series.

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It was pretty funny to me that Moll attacks multiple security officers, including Nhan, and even though Nhan even has enough time to flail about in a smoke screen for a few seconds, none of them apparently have enough time to bother CALLING FOR BACKUP.

 

[Himynameischris]

It was pretty funny to me that Moll attacks multiple security officers, including Nhan, and even though Nhan even has enough time to flail about in a smoke screen for a few seconds, none of them apparently have enough time to bother CALLING FOR BACKUP.

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Or Zora alerting anyone else

 

[StevieP]

None of these failings are unique to disco or even this era of trek

 

[chrominance]

None of these failings is unique to discovery or even this era of trek

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Oh, for sure, my complaint would fit quite nicely alongside The Nitpicker's Guide for Next Generation Trekkers, lol. I don't really mean it as an actual complaint.

 

[Himynameischris]

None of these failings are unique to disco or even this era of trek

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oh for sure, it's just annoying when it happens lol

 

[DBT85]

That dreadnought was stupid huge and I would love for anyone doing these effects to remember that space is 3D and ships warping in as backup (looking like fleas compared to the dreadnought) won't all appear on the same plane.

I'm sure someone did it in recent memory and I was like "yes, at last"

I was reminded on TBBS that Adira Tal has a trill symbiote so it kind of doesn't make sense she feels so inexperienced when she has several lifetimes of experiences to draw from... including a Starfleet Admiral.

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Both the character and actor are non binary and use They. Just a reminder 🙂

And I too had forgotten the symbiont was still there.

 

[TheDestructiveSquirrel]

Remember when a shipwide alarm would go if if a phaser was fired lol

 

[Joeytj]

Remember when a shipwide alarm would go if if a phaser was fired lol

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Starfleet decided to remove that basic security feature from starships after they found out it was supremely inconvenient to most episode plots.

Joking aside, the only justification for it not showing up again is that most of the time we see phaser fire now throughout the franchise is during known fights or skirmishes that people aren't exactly trying to hide.

I can't remember another episode or film where having to fire a phaser in secret aboard a starship has come up and where we would find out phaser alarms are still a thing or not.

 

[Dalek]

I love Jett Reno and I hope somehow they convince Tig to be a regular on Starfleet Academy. Any episode with her is instantly improved.

 

[QuigleyMcShine]

I guess I'm trying to decide whether I'm annoyed or not that Discovery had to be the ship to transfer Moll and L'ak to Fed HQ. The spore drive makes it convenient, but Discovery has the latest clue and Moll and L'ak don't so it's not really a race anymore, but I suppose trying to keep the Breen from finding out that the Progenitor tech is a thing at all is a legit reason to use Discovery to keep them far away.

Sucks Adam Jensen died though.

 

[BorganXI]

I think this season's plot of racing to get the progenitors tech would have been better served if there were multiple groups going after it.

The whole "get it before Moll and L'ak" plot falls apart when you realize, they can't get it on their own and are just waiting for Disco to get it completed first to steal it.

I do like Raynar and hope we will see more of these characters in the Academy show.

 

[TheDestructiveSquirrel]

I think this season's plot of racing to get the progenitors tech would have been better served if there were multiple groups going after it.

The whole "get it before Moll and L'ak" plot falls apart when you realize, they can't get it on their own and are just waiting for Disco to get it completed first to steal it.

I do like Raynar and hope we will see more of these characters in the Academy show.

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The Federation could easily use the spore drive to hide the pieces and clues they already have or launch it into a sun

No one should have this tech but we'll still leave clues and maybe someone will figure it out eventually, for this tech no one should have, that the federation is going to assemble so no one can ever use it......

 

[Soliloquy of a Dogge]

The Progenitor technology is a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point. Whatever is going to happen is going to happen because of Starfleet's incessant need to unravel this mystery. Off to the moving galactic space library we go!

Moll and La'k both came off as shortsighted and incompetent in this episode with bad decision after bad decision and the revelations about Breen society have been pretty underwhelming up until this point. A feudalistic species squabbling over succession? Really?
That isn't compelling and undercuts any tension this season has been going for just as much as the contrivances that have driven Moll and L'ak's actions. Folding them into the overarching narrative feels like Discovery needed a plot device to drive existential angst.

I really liked Michael in this episode. Her pragmatic approach and conflict avoidance showed off her growth and effectiveness as a Captain. Getting more of Rayner's backstory and learning how the Breen's occupation of Kellerun has informed him was great too.

But Discovery... that fight scene in sickbay was absolutely horrendous. Headache inducing camerawork during fights is not a substitute for choreography. And overbearing musical scores are not a substitute for interesting character work.

 

[chrominance]

No one should have this tech but we'll still leave clues and maybe someone will figure it out eventually, for this tech no one should have, that the federation is going to assemble so no one can ever use it......

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They've been pretty clear this whole time that the people who discovered this tech DO want it to be found again, they just want it to be found by the right people, who will ensure it only ever gets used for peaceful purposes.

I personally find this kind of a stupid idea because what actually makes the Federation any better now than it was centuries ago, but I'm willing to go along with it because otherwise this whole season collapses in a heap of implausibility basically immediately.

 

[firehawk12]

I can understand it though.

Imagine you discover some fundamental secret to life. You know telling everyone would be bad, but you just can't bring yourself to destroy it because it's that important. The fact that these are all scientists, at least it's something I could read into it anyway.

 

[TheDestructiveSquirrel]

You'd think they'd learn from Genesis.........does Discovery know about Genesis? lol

 

[DBT85]

You'd think they'd learn from Genesis.........does Discovery know about Genesis? lol

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Yes, Genesis. How can you be deaf with ears like that?

 

[Wrexis]

You'd think they'd learn from Genesis.........does Discovery know about Genesis? lol

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I'll give them some slack here. It's been 1,000 years. Sure they might have records, but no-one would actively know about it.
They should teach these infamous historical events in Starfleet History though for sure.

 

[ColonelT]

Does anyone recall if the cancellation announcement came before or after they shot the season? There are three episodes left and it certainly doesn't feel like the show is coming to a close. Not unusual for Star Trek but very unusual for a streaming series in general.

 

[MrKlaw]

so they just threw away the 'bad guy chases good guy for clues on a treasure hunt' for a seque into 'standoff with big bad' again?

 

[tidewatersouthern]

Does anyone recall if the cancellation announcement came before or after they shot the season? There are three episodes left and it certainly doesn't feel like the show is coming to a close. Not unusual for Star Trek but very unusual for a streaming series in general.

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They had shot the season, but after the announcement did some reshoots for an "ending".

Can't wait until we get the still shots with text over them saying what happened to the crew. Lol

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

For the latest episode, man, I had to say ugh at several points during the episode. Felt like a lot of overly convenient things were happening.

 

[firehawk12]

This season really didn't need an antagonist to be the "chase". It's the worst part of the arc for me.

But anyway, if anyone wants to visit the "real" place - https://fisher.library.utoronto.ca/

Although I don't know if it's open to the public anymore since UofT started banning outsiders. (I really hate my alma mater sometimes)

 

[MrKlaw]

going along for the ride but its just increasingly ridiculous

- how did the breen track where Discovery went? I think Moll hasn't even seen the previous clue and discovery instantly jumps to a location so how can they track them? I know for TV you always have bad guy arriving on the scene at awkward moment - or often beating them to the location like fucking Droopy Dog, but it gets tiring sometimes as its just too easy.

- mind palace with silly riddles. I guess at least it wasn't love as the answer, but not far off. Nice bit of self reflection from Michael and maybe/hopefully will lead to reconciliation with Book but that was her fault in the first place so whatever.

- lets slowly unpick the complexities of Breen culture and the imperium, that sounds interseting. Oh no they're just Klingons and are open to honour based shenanigans from hoomans - disappointing, and a bit ridiculous that Moll could get away with that honestly. Its kinda fun I guess but we've seen it before and it just instantly devalues the Breen as often happens with basically any new foe we get introduced to.

 

[SolidSnakeUS]

I'm sorry as well, but Moll's actress is terrible for this role. She... I dunno, it feels forced every single time I see her on screen.

 

[ImaPlayThis]

- how did the breen track where Discovery went? I think Moll hasn't even seen the previous clue and discovery instantly jumps to a location so how can they track them? I know for TV you always have bad guy arriving on the scene at awkward moment - or often beating them to the location like fucking Droopy Dog, but it gets tiring sometimes as its just too easy.

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It's been explained that the Discovery's spore jump signature can now be tracked so the Breen know where Discovery is jumping to, however it doesn't explain why the Breen are so quick and get to where Discovery jumps in just a matter of hours, like of course Starfleet has stopped research into the next generation spore drive if regular ships are basically just as quick now

I'm sorry as well, but Moll's actress is terrible for this role. She... I dunno, it feels forced every single time I see her on screen.

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Yeah same, not to sound mean but there's something about her voice and line delivery that just sounds like she's forcing herself to sound a certain way

Overall I enjoyed this episode more than the last two but I still feel like so far the second half of the season has been weaker than the first

 

[MrKlaw]

the universe is very conveniently small this season - 6 hours to get to where they are now, probably less to get to the library. I mean even if it wasn't that fast, plot would adapt to slow down the Discovery (like it just did)

 

[Wrexis]

Didn't hate some parts, like I thought it was cool the museum lady was the same species as the Federation President from Star Trek IV.

Based on this thread there's like...only five of us watching anymore.

 

[StevieP]

Didn't hate some parts, like I thought it was cool the museum lady was the same species as the Federation President from Star Trek IV.

Based on this thread there's like...only five of us watching anymore.

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Discovery set a streaming record last week and hit the top 10 and it's been very well reviewed in the mainstream. This site just hates any star trek that doesn't revolve around the 90s era.

 

[DrForester]

Neat little reference that the mindscape tech was the same that was used on Picard in "The Inner Light"

 

[QuigleyMcShine]

Not bad. The Archive seems like a missed opportunity for a bunch of Trek Easter eggs though. They should've had Harry Kim's skull on display in the background.

Neat little reference that the mindscape tech was the same that was used on Picard in "The Inner Light"

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Oh neat, I missed that.