cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
13,757
This week I dropped ST: Discovery halfway through the first episode. I then noticed Lower Decks (amazon prime) and on a whim checked it out. I binged this amazing show in a few days. It somehow felt like it honoured the franchise better than anything else in the last couple decades.
 

lorddarkflare

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,399
I think the thing about The Orville is, Seth MacFarlane got pigeonholed by Fox as a "comedy guy" because they loved the money that his comedy brought in, to the point where they gave him three back-to-back-to-back cartoons. So MacFarlane decides that he wants to make his own Star Trek TNG, and it's unapologetically TNG but he doesn't have the rights to the IP so he has to make his own, so Fox looks at that and says "Great! I assume it's another comedy?" And MacFarlane says "I can put some comedy into it for you if that's what it takes to get my show made."

And then season 1 of The Orville is received better than season 1 of Discovery, which results in Fox loosening their restrictions for season 2 of The Orville (helping season 2), while Paramount tries to shove comedy into Discovery (hurting season 2), because networks are generally clueless and reactionary. (Discovery s2 outperforms Orville s2 in spite of this particular seesaw of network interference.)

And then Lower Decks comes along and it was made by the guy behind the TNG season 8 parody twitter account, so it wants to be TNG (it wants to be that as desperately as The Orville wants it), and it's allowed to be TNG, and it also wants to be a comedy and it figured out the exact balance of comedy that it wanted to be a long time ago, and the network is currently in the right headspace not to interfere with Lower Decks, which allows the show to be what it's meant to be.

I agree with everything except that I still don't think this show tries to ape TNG.

With Orville, I genuinely do not think many of their plot points work or moments feel earned without TNG as a reference.

Lower Decks works on its face AND it references Star Trek. Like, I am not a huge ST dude, so I know I missed a ton of deep cuts, but I still found the experience complete.

Also, I forgot the Disco season 2 did better than season 1. It deserved to, it was much better than season 1. Do we know how season 3 did? That was the closest to finding their footing they have come. Definitely made me happier for the show's future.
 
Oct 25, 2017
8,653
I don't recall Disco S2 being "funnier", and I doubt it was some reaction to Orville if it was, since it's last legs on Hulu, I doubt CBS cared very much about what Orville was doing.
 
Nov 27, 2020
4,413
I don't recall Disco S2 being "funnier", and I doubt it was some reaction to Orville if it was, since it's last legs on Hulu, I doubt CBS cared very much about what Orville was doing.
It was certainly marketed that way. It even had a similar pop song in the trailer, put together similarly, and the trailer ended with a joke of the alien sneezing in the turbolift. While the season itself didn't feel influenced by Orville, I'm thinking the marketing department absolutely was.
Edit: I'm talking about the similarity between the S2 trailers for both shows, and they both dropped within a couple of weeks of each other.
 

Cheerilee

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,969
It was certainly marketed that way. It even had a similar pop song in the trailer, put together similarly, and the trailer ended with a joke of the alien sneezing in the turbolift. While the season itself didn't feel influenced by Orville, I'm thinking the marketing department absolutely was.
Edit: I'm talking about the similarity between the S2 trailers for both shows, and they both dropped within a couple of weeks of each other.
Yeah, it would've just been the trailers that I was going off of, since I haven't properly seen Discovery (I also never finished watching The Orville). And I think trailers tend to have more network interference. And sometimes network interference isn't even really a bad thing.

I was thinking more along the lines of how the forced comedy in The Orville seemed like it was based in network interference to me, and at least some of that pressure shifted away from The Orville and towards Discovery, but then Lower Decks seemed to slip by and do it's own thing very naturally. I could be mistaken. Lower Decks could have been a production nightmare, but it came through in the end making everything look easy.
 
Nov 27, 2020
4,413
Yeah, it would've just been the trailers that I was going off of, since I haven't properly seen Discovery (I also never finished watching The Orville). And I think trailers tend to have more network interference. And sometimes network interference isn't even really a bad thing.

I was thinking more along the lines of how the forced comedy in The Orville seemed like it was based in network interference to me, and at least some of that pressure shifted away from The Orville and towards Discovery, but then Lower Decks seemed to slip by and do it's own thing very naturally. I could be mistaken. Lower Decks could have been a production nightmare, but it came through in the end making everything look easy.
So up front, I'm a big fan of Orville. It's got it's issues, and it's basically "Seth McFarland's The Next Generation", but that's ok, because no one else is going to make that show in live action these days. The humor in season 1, especially the early part of the first season of Orville was pretty forced feeling, and smacked of interference by the suits at Fox. It was a Seth McFarland show, so that equals Family Guy/American Dad, right? At least in their heads it does. That carries through the first couple of episodes, until you get to "About a Girl", which was a classic TNG style courtroom episode, and that sold me on the show. Season 2 jettisons most of the unnatural humor and just becomes good. There are still jokes, but they're built around the characters and situations, like the "pee corner" when the crew is held hostage in the shuttlebay in the "Identity" two parter. It's funny, but it's also realistic based on the situation that they're in. Season 2 is a marked improvement, and I'm still hoping we might one day get that season 3 on Hulu. It's Trek, in all but it's name, but it's also a style of Trek we don't get any more.

Lower Decks, is kind of the same thing, and it has the Trek name. I was kind of turned off after the first episode because I wasn't prepared for just how rapid fire the dialogue was going to be. Once I settled into the flow of the show, I grew quickly on me, and I was fully invested by the end.

I don't think that Lower Decks and Orville negate one another, just like the existence of Orville isn't a "response" to Discovery. Lower Decks and Orville come from a love of the same source material, and it's great that we went from having no episodic, story of the week, Trek style sci-fi shows, to having two, both of which are pretty good. I want more of both!

P.S.: I also love that McFarland even went so far with the Orville's effects as to do practical model filming for some shots. That's a big plus in my book.
 

Arttemis

The Fallen
Oct 28, 2017
6,305
Absolutely love this show. My wife and I finished it in two weekends.

Interesting discussion here comparing and contrasting it with Orville (which we enjoyed). We both felt like that show was Mcfarlane's love letter to TNG but without any of the technical exposition, and definitely some awkwardly forced humor.

Haven't seen any of Picard or Discovery yet, but I'll get around to them in the summer.
 

Mezentine

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,032
What I find fascinating about Lower Decks isn't even that its a TNG weekly throwback, its that its probably the most character driven Trek show ever. Discovery and Picard were trying to do this to some extent, and both have been uh...not great at it (Discovery gets wrapped up in the mechanics of its own plot a bit too much, Picard is just...bad).

Lower Decks is, first and foremost, before being a space adventure show, before being an homage to TNG, hell almost before being a comedy, a character piece, and the meaningful conflicts are pretty much all psychologically driven. Mariner in particular was given more interiority in one season than a lot of Trek characters get in five, but this really extends to the entire core cast and even some of the supporting cast

I fucking love it
 
Nov 27, 2020
4,413
What I find fascinating about Lower Decks isn't even that its a TNG weekly throwback, its that its probably the most character driven Trek show ever. Discovery and Picard were trying to do this to some extent, and both have been uh...not great at it (Discovery gets wrapped up in the mechanics of its own plot a bit too much, Picard is just...bad).

Lower Decks is, first and foremost, before being a space adventure show, before being an homage to TNG, hell almost before being a comedy, a character piece, and the meaningful conflicts are pretty much all psychologically driven. Mariner in particular was given more interiority in one season than a lot of Trek characters get in five, but this really extends to the entire core cast and even some of the supporting cast

I fucking love it
That's a really good observation. It's taken ongoing character development, and driven that to the forefront. I mean, TNG had character arcs too, they just feel much slower over seven seasons, but Lower Decks has made it the focus. Both Discovery and Picard have had overly complicated season long plots, and that's come at the expense of character work. I'd say that problem has impacted Discovery far more, because so many moments on that show feel entirely unearned. I'm not speaking specifically about Burnham, but in generally. There's a recurring problem of having these overly emotional and dramatic moments involving characters who's names I hardly know. Like...when Tasha Yar died, I damn sure knew who she was. But on Discovery? After three seasons I barely know the names of the bridge regulars. Lower Decks is so much better in that regard. I know who the characters are, they're distinctive, and they all had moments to shine over the course of the first season.
 

SuperL

Banned
Nov 27, 2017
891
I couldn't get into the show because the first couple of episodes seemed to really want to make Boimler the Jerry of the show; the punching bag who takes abuse for merely existing. Does it get better?
 
Nov 27, 2020
4,413
I couldn't get into the show because the first couple of episodes seemed to really want to make Boimler the Jerry of the show; the punching bag who takes abuse for merely existing. Does it get better?
I think so. There are reasons for Mariner being the way she is, and Boimler is far more competent than he initially comes across.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,689
Funny enough, in both Discovery and Lower Decks, the cat is the best character.

(kind of kidding. lol)
 

Inquisitive_Ghost

Cranky Ghost Pokemon
Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,157
I couldn't get into the show because the first couple of episodes seemed to really want to make Boimler the Jerry of the show; the punching bag who takes abuse for merely existing. Does it get better?
Yes, the quality increases dramatically as the series goes on. The last few episodes are excellent.
 

Serebii

Serebii.net Webmaster
Verified
Oct 24, 2017
13,270
Been watching this weekly since it dropped, two episodes a week, and finally finished today.

Really enjoyed it, it's a different way of Trek than Discovery and Picard (which I enjoyed. There hasn't been a Star Trek I haven't enjoyed) and I'm looking forward to the second season.

Though I know a lot of the Star Trek jokes were lost on my girlfriend.
 
Nov 27, 2020
4,413
Something that I just thought of: I hope that the holodeck movie becomes a reoccurring thing and we get a "sequel" once a season. It's the most direct parody they do, and there are so many Trek and sci-fi movie tropes they can have fun with.
 

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
13,757
Something that I just thought of: I hope that the holodeck movie becomes a reoccurring thing and we get a "sequel" once a season. It's the most direct parody they do, and there are so many Trek and sci-fi movie tropes they can have fun with.

That lengthy sequence of the crew admiring the ship was hilarious. It just kept going on and on. And the damn Abrams lens flares lol...
 
Nov 27, 2020
4,413
That lengthy sequence of the crew admiring the ship was hilarious. It just kept going on and on. And the damn Abrams lens flares lol...
The music in that scene was exactly what it should be too…a "The Enterprise" style cue from TMP, but with the Lower Decks theme instead.

Some things they could poke fun at:
- a new villain who is still basically Kahn
- the odd number "curse"
- Time travel
- Reboots!
- A Generations style crossover. Perfect for that Archer cameo!
- A movie that is basically a two part episode of the show (like Insurrection was accused of)

I mean, I could go on…lol
 

cognizant

Member
Dec 19, 2017
13,757
Don't know if this was already discussed but while watching the show I thought it could have been so easy for this show to kill a red-shirt every episode, but not only did they not do that but for the majority of the season ship crew members mostly survive every ordeal, until the last episode when Shit Gets Real, and at which point you should be fully invested in the cast.

Lower Decks has basically rekindled my love of the franchise, something I haven't felt since Voyager era. Nothing since that show has remotely interested me, I've basically hated every movie and TV show since. :| (I often say that Nolan's Interstellar is the closest thing to a Star Trek movie we've got in years)
 

Deleted member 3208

Oct 25, 2017
11,934
Just watched this recently, and man, it has been a while since a show has made me laugh. Lower Decks is like the best Star Trek that has been released in these past years. And I do like Discovery, but Lower Decks is miles better.
 

firehawk12

Member
Oct 25, 2017
24,689
Can we all agree that the meta-ST-Movie-parody episode was just pure joy start to finish?
The last 5 episodes are S-tier Star Trek, really.

The music in that scene was exactly what it should be too…a "The Enterprise" style cue from TMP, but with the Lower Decks theme instead.

Some things they could poke fun at:
- a new villain who is still basically Kahn
I could see a lot of jokes being mined from having Khan's son (or clone) just being super embarrassed by his shirtless father and being unable to figure out that space works in three dimensions. lol
 

Tortillo VI

Member
May 27, 2018
1,978
First half of the show was a bit hit and miss for me, but the second half was both hilarious and the best Trek I've seen in a long time.

I really don't like that Mariner is the main character, though. I find her annoying and out of place too frequently. Star Trek is already hilarious without needing a "rebel". I enjoy the stories of the other three "main" characters way more.

I can't wait for season 2, specially after they confirmed they will pick up where this one left off regarding the introduction of certain characters.
 
Last edited:
Oct 25, 2017
8,653
Best part about Mariner is that she's not rebelling against star fleet but against it's red tape and bureaucracy, she wants to uphold it's ideals, they just won't let her.
 

Anustart

9 Million Scovilles
Avenger
Nov 12, 2017
9,176
I should watch this. Missus hates it when I turn on TNG or ds9 so I might have trouble getting her to let me lol.

Edit: I see people talking about season 3, is there 2 seasons out? Only seeing 1 on cbs all access.
 
Last edited:

Chance Hale

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,046
Colorado
Totally forgot this came out so glad to see thia bumped, need some trek in my life. Glad to hear it got better after the muted response to the pilot
 
OP
OP
Spectromixer

Spectromixer

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
16,936
USA
Amazon Prime Video today announced that the second season of the fan-favorite animated series Star Trek: Lower Decks will premiere on Friday, August 13th in multiple territories around the world including Australia, New Zealand, Europe, Japan, India and more. The ten episode series will roll out weekly, with the season two finale dropping on Friday, October 15th.

 

H.Cornerstone

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,883
just finished season 1 and this is by far the best modern Star Trek show, although i wish it didnt have the cameos/references to the other series.
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,315
Not gonna lie, I find something deeply amusing in the idea of Boimler like, becoming the great enemy of the Pakleds. They all want a piece and he just wants to be left alone
 

Tortfeasor

Member
Oct 28, 2017
66
Chicago
I've bought the tshirts every single season for venture brothers that they were available and they have always been amazing. I can't recommend this enough. Just make sure you buy at least 1 size up from normal, they are always tiny. The last time I just gave all of the shirts to my wife and they didn't even kind of fit.