Star Trek Thread: Stardate 98193.21 - The Klingons Count As Blackface, Right?

[DrForester]

My Star Trek TOS rewatch has taken me to season 3, and Day of The Dove. In this episode, Kirk captures a Klingon crew, but a glowy space orb helps the Klingons escape. What stood out to me is that while Klingons had always been darkened a bit, they really went all out with Kang.

This is Koloth, Kor, and Kang.

Kang was played by Michael Ansara (who many on this forum would likely know as the voice of Mr. Freeze in Batman TAS). It just really stood out how dark they made him (and the other Klingon guest stars) compared to past ones.

Here he is without all the makeup on another Star Trek role, where he was going to marry Troi's mother.

Now it's worth noting that they got all three of those original Klingons back for a Deep Space Nine episode, and put them in modern makeup.

Koloth looks about the same. Kor looks even darker than his TOS days (though that might just be the lighting in this shot), and Kang is a lot closer to the actor's skin tone.

Here's another shot of Kor, standing next to Worf.

But at the end of the day they're still darkening their skin. And it wasn't just a TOS thing.

Here's Robert O'Riley as Gowron.

And Star Trek's greatest Klingon, General Martok.

On Star Trek Discovery, we have L'Rell. Rather than going with dakrer skin, they just went for a grey skintone.

So I guess the moral question of the day is this. Does being a race of aliens put into more of a grey area? Does it make it even worse since they made the warrior race, a race that was often played as an antagonist, darker?

And I guess the biggest question of all. Why not just get black actors to play the roles. Thinking through it, the only notable Klingons I can think of who were played by black actors were Worf, Torres, and Worf's brother Kurn.

 

[Volimar]

I think maybe it's closer to othering like orcs when you add in the eyebrows and later prosthetics? Kind of funny given the skin tone discussion that the DS9 episode you're referencing has them hunting down a Klingon called The Albino.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

This is one of those things I don't want to make a big stink about because I'd come off as some angry woke black nerd but yeah it's gross


The Klingons needed to change for Disco


Looking at Alexander from TNG honestly grosses me out


why the fuck did they keep hiring white actors to paint them colors that actual human beings are?

way too many Trek aliens are just brown haired white people with a silly "alien" prosthetic glued to their heads; it's lame

 

[Dakkon]

This is one of those things I don't want to make a big stink about because I'd come off as some angry woke black nerd but yeah it's gross


The Klingons needed to change for Disco


Looking at Alexander from TNG honestly grosses me out


why the fuck did they keep hiring white actors to paint them colors that actual human beings are?

way too many Trek aliens are just brown haired white people with a silly "alien" prosthetic glued to their heads; it's lame

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I completely agree with you, especially when it comes to Trek's often lame alien design. (prosthetics here, different skin color here) Like even Galaxy Quest which was parodying Trek had infinitely better alien design lmao.

That said I feel like if they did this they'd need to add more nuance to the Klingons, I can't help but feel it'd be a really bad look and would get different criticism if you made an entire alien race of people only played by black people and the race's determining factors are:

* brutality

* ruthlessness

* super aggressive

* society based on fighting

* resistant to pain/harm (plays into the common myth that black people don't feel as much pain)

 

[Deleted member 43]

The Klingons have always been a boring, nonsensical species, but to be honest I never really thought about this angle on them before.

It has now become the best reason to toss them.

 

[Volimar]

I completely agree with you, especially when it comes to Trek's often lame alien design. (prosthetics here, different skin color here) Like even Galaxy Quest which was parodying Trek had infinitely better alien design lmao.

That said I feel like if they did this they'd need to add more nuance to the Klingons, I can't help but feel it'd be a really bad look and would get different criticism if you made an entire alien race of people only played by black people and the race's determining factors are:

* brutality

* ruthlessness

* super aggressive

* society based on fighting

* resistant to pain/harm (plays into the common myth that black people don't feel as much pain)

Click to shrink...

This is kind of what I mean about the othering. The solution I think isn't for just one race to play them, but to just not darken the skin when it's a white person, or go with a grey tone like Discovery when it's a white actor. But if you're gonna have a black Klingon, have them played by a black actor.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

I completely agree with you, especially when it comes to Trek's often lame alien design. (prosthetics here, different skin color here) Like even Galaxy Quest which was parodying Trek had infinitely better alien design lmao.

That said I feel like if they did this they'd need to add more nuance to the Klingons, I can't help but feel it'd be a really bad look and would get different criticism if you made an entire alien race of people only played by black people and the race's determining factors are:

* brutality

* ruthlessness

* super aggressive

* society based on fighting

* resistant to pain/harm (plays into the common myth that black people don't feel as much pain)

Click to shrink...

To be clear, Black people aren't the only people I would have play those TOS/TNG Klingons, just anyone with a skin tone that they would paint the white people- lots of groups of people with naturally brown skin, despite what mass media usually presents us with

as it is, it doesn't matter if black people played more Klingons- the fact is that they are painted darker than other Trek aliens and already have all those negative traits.

 

[Ramako]

Just to add some additional context to the discussion (and I'm sure most Trek fans know this) the Klingons were originally conceived as being an allegory for the Soviet Union. It's interesting that in later series (i.e. TNG, DS9) they increasingly became more relatable and closer allied with the Federation, while the Romulans and then Cardassians/Dominion took on the roles of the main antagonists. Rather than being simply ruthless and violent, they started to be associated with more positive traits like honour and courage.

 

[Parch]

way too many Trek aliens are just brown haired white people with a silly "alien" prosthetic glued to their heads; it's lame

Click to shrink...

The original Star Trek production theory was that you needed to see an actors eyes and mouth to get decent acting. If you made the aliens totally weird, like a lot of Star Wars aliens, then it was very difficult to have them be a central character because it was very difficult for the actor to act.

 

[DrForester]

To be clear, Black people aren't the only people I would have play those TOS/TNG Klingons, just anyone with a skin tone that they would paint the white people- lots of groups of people with naturally brown skin, despite what mass media usually presents us with

as it is, it doesn't matter if black people played more Klingons- the fact is that they are painted darker than other Trek aliens and already have all those negative traits.

Click to shrink...

Star Trek VI went pretty light with the Klingons. Don't know who plays the extras in this scene, but the main ones come close to matching the actor's skin tone.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

The original Star Trek production theory was that you needed to see an actors eyes and mouth to get decent acting. If you made the aliens totally weird, like a lot of Star Wars aliens, then it was very difficult to have them be a central character because it was very difficult for the actor to act.

Click to shrink...

Interesting. Word to Quark & Odo.

Star Trek VI went pretty light with the Klingons. Don't know who plays the extras in this scene, but the main ones come close to matching the actor's skin tone.

Click to shrink...

I wonder what made them darken them most of the time but not for times like these?

That looks so much better to me than unnecessarily making them "swarthy"

 

[Dary]

It's always slightly disconcerting just how homogenised alien races are in Trek. Was there ever a non-White Trill or Bajoran or Betazoid?

 

[Deleted member 43]

Interesting. Word to Quark & Odo.



I wonder what made them darken them most of the time but not for times like these?

That looks so much better to me than unnecessarily making them "swarthy"

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To make them seem more Russian to fit the themes of VI I would imagine.

 

[Elegant Weapon]

It's always slightly disconcerting just how homogenised alien races are in Trek. Was there ever a non-White Trill or Bajoran or Betazoid?

Click to shrink...

There were non-white Bajorans but they were rare. The Sisko kinda counts as a Bajoran?

We didn't get to see as many Betazoids or Trills, overall, but there a descendant of Dax/Sisko that inherited the trills spots that episode where the Defiant crew were stranded.

I believe Disco trailers have shown a black trill lady; I'm not sure if she'll be a featured or recurring character though.

 

[Calvinien]

I mean, they are essentially space vikings so....no? IIRC the klingons were supposed to represent the russians in TOS and the Romulans were supposed to represent the CCP.

I think maybe it's closer to othering like orcs when you add in the eyebrows and later prosthetics? Kind of funny given the skin tone discussion that the DS9 episode you're referencing has them hunting down a Klingon called The Albino.

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Was he a klingon? He called his pursuers 'Klingon trash' at one point. I kindof assumed his race was referred to as Albino.


Now the thing that has always eluded me is whether 'Let that be your last battlefield' counts as blackface. They have two white dudes, each with a hald black face and a half white one and oneof them (I forget which) is pretty obviously supposed to be a standin for black people.

 

[Kal Shintar]

It's always slightly disconcerting just how homogenised alien races are in Trek. Was there ever a non-White Trill or Bajoran or Betazoid?

Click to shrink...

"The Trouble with Edward" has a non-white Trill and the promo's for Discovery have one in the group shot. Mardah, Kesha and Korena where all non-white Bajorans, though Korena is from an alternative future.

 

[Mona]

does this mean star trek is a black story?

 

[Nome]

They're pretty clearly Asian caricatures.
See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klingon#Conception

 

[Ramako]

They're pretty clearly Asian caricatures.
See also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klingon#Conception

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It hadn't hit me before, but now that you mention it, I totally see it... Klingons do often have Samurai-like facial hair. I wouldn't be surprised if that was intentional, given that they're both supposed to be honourable warrior types.

 

[DrForester]

It's always slightly disconcerting just how homogenised alien races are in Trek. Was there ever a non-White Trill or Bajoran or Betazoid?

Click to shrink...

I seem to remember their being some shouting from some people when Tim Russ was cast as Tuvok, and people insisting there weren't black Vulcans.

 

[ann3nova.]

Roddenberry was a Army Air Corps officer deployed to the Pacific during WWII. It's not a black stereotype, it's Japanese.

Edit: So beaten.

 

[Shy]

The TOS ones. Yes.

Everything after. No.

 

[Good4Squat]

They always seemed to be based on the Mongols to me, rather than african.

 

[Herne]

From what I remember of early behind the scenes books, the Klingons were conceived as being, "very dark, swarthy". I don't know why they didn't go with black or other dark skinned actors.

I seem to remember their being some shouting from some people when Tim Russ was cast as Tuvok, and people insisting there weren't black Vulcans.

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Well, people will insist on their idiocy. Russ had already played a black Vulcan in Star Trek Generations, iirc.

 

[Inugami]

TOS Klingons were definitely Asian stereotypes, that's not to say there isn't still a lot of uncomfortable with white guys donning a lot of black makeup in TNG and later.

On their portrayal as a violent purely militant race, I think they were doing a good job slowly dismantling that throughout the TOS movies, TNG, and DS9. It's between ages, but didn't DS9 essentially have a recurring background Klingon chef who seemed quite happy being one?

There was a bit of back peddling in Voyager... But what didn't they back peddle on in that series?

 

[Deleted member 2226]

Kang being noticeably darker could have been intentional, but it just as easily could have been an issue they didn't have time or money to fix; I've not seen any info on that matter in the production books. Considering the "gold" uniforms we think of were in actuality green it's not hard to chalk it up to another case of "color TV weirdness" or just inconsistent application of shoe polish or whatever they were using for them.

The makeup wouldn't fly today, reasonably so, but I don't see the issue with the TNG Klingons. They're darkened, but they're not racial caricatures. The "proud warrior race" stuff draws way more from samurai movies than any African or African-American culture. As for "negative" traits, especially in DS9 they were definitely portrayed in a pretty positive light. The negatives were (as usual) government, not honorable individuals.

Star Trek VI went pretty light with the Klingons. Don't know who plays the extras in this scene, but the main ones come close to matching the actor's skin tone.

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They went light partially because the main actors didn't want to be in a ton of makeup. The Klingons in STVI are way more stripped down because Christopher Plummer and David Warner said "I don't need to spend three extra hours in the makeup chair, thanks."

And man, the Discovery Klingons are terrible. They look like they're made out of metal-flecked Sculpey.

From what I remember of early behind the scenes books, the Klingons were conceived as being, "very dark, swarthy". I don't know why they didn't go with black or other dark skinned actors.



Well, people will insist on their idiocy. Russ had already played a black Vulcan in Star Trek Generations, iirc.

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He was actually a human helmsman in Generations. And a human terrorist in "Die Hard on the Enterprise" episode "Starship Mine".

 

[Herne]

He was actually a human helmsman in Generations. And a human terrorist in "Die Hard on the Enterprise" episode "Starship Mine".

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Was he? Damn my eyes.

 

[DrForester]

On their portrayal as a violent purely militant race, I think they were doing a good job slowly dismantling that throughout the TOS movies, TNG, and DS9. It's between ages, but didn't DS9 essentially have a recurring background Klingon chef who seemed quite happy being one?

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I don't think the chef appeared in more than a few episodes. But I do remember his name (though never said on screen) was Kaga, after Chairman Kaga of Iron Chef.

 

[syndicalist]

Well, they're not intended to look black, so probably not? They were supposed to resemble darker North Asian people, hence the stereotypical beards. A Mongol Empire in space. The 1960s series was groundbreaking, but like most media born of the time, it's not without its own issues.