Dec 17, 2022
1,325
Went in thinking it would be "ho-hum" so I waited until last night to watch.

Morgan's story was interesting, but knowing she's working for the Sith that obliterated her people (even if Sheeve's shady Trade Federation dealings are not public knowledge in that galaxy) made her goals tragic but also goofy. Maybe her highly intelligent Chiss buddy could've enlightened her on whom provoked the Trade Federation? Maybe he would have just kept quiet to keep her in line (unlikely as he was interested in her motivation to join). Maybe Palpatine was just that good at covering his tracks? You'd think she's dig or something or be part of a rebellion with a history like that, but we just see her oppressing a town for her "vision". A vision of what, revenge or to save Thawn? It's not clear and makes her motivation a bit daft IMO.

The Bariss stuff was much better. I'd like to see a show based on that, her working for The Path along side Ventress. I wasn't sure she'd go back to Jedi, I prefer she'd just stay grey… but Empire genocide and Sith ruthlessness must have been jarring enough for her to pick an absolute side. Still a little weird when she could have picked "None of the above", but whateves. Hope we see more of her and her redemption. Also… who is the "friend" she referred to? Couldn't be Ashoka… it's hard to tell how many years passed, CGI is bad at showing age sometimes, lol.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,768
Morgan's story was interesting, but knowing she's working for the Sith that obliterated her people (even if Sheeve's shady Trade Federation dealings are not public knowledge in that galaxy) made her goals tragic but also goofy. Maybe her highly intelligent Chiss buddy could've enlightened her on whom provoked the Trade Federation? Maybe he would have just kept quiet to keep her in line (unlikely as he was interested in her motivation to join). Maybe Palpatine was just that good at covering his tracks?
Remember how Palpatine ordered every person who knew about his involvement with the separatist movement to come to Mustafar and had them murdered? That's how he hid his tracks. As far as anyone else knew Palpatine had no involvement with the seperatists because Dooku was the public face of the movement.

And because the public figures died people assume the seperatists died with it. Palpatine had a galaxy brain play that ensured that pretty much no one but his closest advisors knew the actual truth about why a galaxy so smoothly transitioned from a Republic into an empire.


You'd think she's dig or something or be part of a rebellion with a history like that, but we just see her oppressing a town for her "vision". A vision of what, revenge or to save Thawn? It's not clear and makes her motivation a bit daft IMO.
In Ahsoka she mentions that her sisters have been calling her in her dreams. The vision line was a reference to that because they were calling to her from another galaxy.
 

Sayuz

Member
Apr 29, 2019
976
Didn't think this was very good at all.

The Morgan stuff just doesn't come across as interesting or meaningful since it's not explored in any real depth and the character herself is not particularly engaging on her own. We learn a bit more of her backstory but otherwise there's just not much there. Bonus points for having yet another New Republic character act like a complete moron.

The Bariss stuff had more potential but with such short run times everything happens way too quickly characterwise, with no time taken to let the story breathe/play out. There's nothing inherently wrong with the general outline of the story they presented, but having it happen over 30-35 minutes felt very rushed and unearned.

That's how I felt. I finally got to watch it today, and overall I was left disappointed. The Morgan storyline is basically a whole lot of nothing. The first episode was the best of the bunch, but that was because of everything happening around her, not anything to do with her specifically. It was definitely fun seeing Grievous again, and watching the destruction of the Nightsisters from another point of view, and it was definitely cool to see another Dathomirian culture, but as for Morgan herself...

Well, we learn that she was a bad kid who got others killed in the name of revenge. Then becomes a bad adult who kills and subjugates others in the name of revenge.

There's supposed to be some irony that in her quest for vengeance she's become like the people she seeks to destroy, but it falls flat, partially because none of the people she's subjugating and being cruel to have anything to do with her past, and it's been so long since it happened that the Separatists are long dead. Like, by the point of the final Morgan episode, Grievous flamed out over 3 decades prior, and the Confederacy itself along with him.

If the story was about her struggle with desiring revenge against an enemy who is long gone, and the anger and lack of fulfillment she feels against being unable to strike back against those who hurt her, then okay, that's a valid motivation...but we don't really see that when she's trying to sell the Empire on her new ship designs and trying to strike good business deals with them. So it makes that first episode feel pretty disconnected from everything that comes after, and makes those following two episodes feel like things are happening just because, since they don't seem to tie in with her supposed motivation.

I get that visually, they do try to tie everything together, with her burning the forest at the end, similar to how Grievous burned down the forests of Dathomir, but in-universe she doesn't really give a reason for why she does that. Some ambassadors from the New Republic shows up, so she kills them and then decides to burn down all the forests right outside her city because...? I guess because Grievous burned down her forests, and she hates Grievous, so she'll do the same. It's weird.

The Barriss stuff on the other hand is decently good. The trouble with it is that it tries to stuff too much into too short of a time frame. Unlike with the Dooku story from Tales of the Jedi which showed us bits of his life throughout the decades, with each piece building towards the greater story of his total disillusionment (first with the Republic, then the Jedi Order, and finally the Jedi Council), Barriss' story doesn't feel like it builds to something grander in total.

Barriss starts off being disillusionment with the Jedi and then begrudgingly joining The Inquisitors. Cut to her being an Inquisitor, but One of the Good Ones™ who doesn't actually ever do anything bad, and then almost instantly becomes disillusioned with the Empire. Cut to her then being a wise old reformed Jedi who has seemingly made up with Ahsoka(?!) and atoned for her past misdeeds... And by "misdeeds", I mean the single temple bombing, because we're not shown her doing anything evil as an Inquisitor. If anything, compared to the rest of them, she was an absolute saint.

I don't have a problem with the broad strokes of the story either. It actually makes a lot of sense that Bariss, a person who was so disillusioned with the Jedi for becoming warriors and killers would also eventually have similar problems with the Inquisitors, a group who are far worse. Her deciding to leave the Inquisitors is

We're teased with Barriss and Vader interacting, which should be a big deal considering their history, but nope. The most we get is a glance. We're teased with the idea that Barriss and Ahsoka have reunited, which should be a big deal considering their history, but nope. The most we get is an off-handed comment. Heck, we also know that The Grand Inquisitor himself was one of the Temple Guards who brought Barriss to trial, and the experience was what made him himself question the Jedi Order and fall to the dark side. You'd think there'd be a bit more interaction between them, given that, but once again, no. They fight a little, he introduces them to Darth Vader, that's the extent of it.

Instead the meat and potatoes of the Barriss story is her relationship with Lyn / Fourth Sister. Which is...fine. The trouble with it is that we don't really know Lyn as a character. We see her briefly in the Obi-Wan series being all Inquisitorius, and then we see her again her, again being extremely evil, slaughtering dozens of innocent people in the name. We're told that Barriss knows her from her time as a Jedi, but we're not given any insight into their past relationship. Were they friends? Acquaintances? Did Lyn hate Barriss for betraying the Jedi at the time? Did she agree with her? Who knows.

Ultimately, we're supposed to sort of sympathize with Barriss' struggle in the end to reach Lyn, but Lyn is barely even a character, and nothing we've seen about her thus far makes her seem redeemable. She's not even given a motivation for joining The Inquisitors or questioning the Jedi the way Barriss is, so as far as the audience knows maybe Lyn was always just someone who was a sociopath, just waiting for permission to slaughter people.

It just feels like a missed opportunity, because Barriss has so much history with so many other characters, but we get none of that. Heck, we don't even know how she felt about Order 66 and the Jedi being wiped out. Is she cool with Palpatine being the Emperor now; serving the same guy who oversaw her trial? Even if she doesn't realize Anakin is Vader, seemingly she might have some feelings about those two things. The little bits of dialogue we get in make it sound like she's cool with all the way things went down, and she only disagrees with slaughtering innocent people and surrendering Jedi, but that leaves so much unanswered about how she got to that point.

Which I guess is my biggest problem with the Barriss episodes. They feel like they skip over far too much. It feels like the show should have been 6 episodes of her. We need to see her conflict in learning that the Jedi Order was destroyed, because as much as she felt they lost their way, surely she would have been saddened or at least shocked by their destruction? We need to see her actually believing (or trying to convince herself that she believes) that the Empire and the Inquisitors are a force for good in the galaxy, before becoming more and more disgusted with them before her eventual betrayal. And while we don't actually need to see what happens in the years between her leaving the Inquisitors and becoming Old Woman Barriss, a little more in-between to flesh it out would be nice.

It's quite the leap for the first two episodes take place over the course of what is probably a couple years, and then have the next episode jump probably a decade or more into the future. That would be fine if every episode featured a similar time skip, but instead of a beginning, middle and end, it sort of feels like two beginnings (Barriss joins the Inquisitors, Barriss starts her new life) and a distant ending (Ancient Barriss accepts the end of her life). Again, I think this could have been solved with more time and episodes. This was just too much of a story to cram into 3 (not even full length) episodes.

Hopefully we get another Tales of series next year. Tales of the Bounty Hunters, Tales of the Confederacy, Tales of the First Order, or whatever, I don't care. I just hope it's a little more even next time around. I like the idea behind these types of shows, but this one was more of a miss than a hit for me. Still worth watching though, because even as uneven as it was, the animation was drop-dead gorgeous, and there's a lot of good here, despite my complaints. Plus, if you don't like any particular episode, they're over fast enough, and none of them drag. I just had hoped for a bit more.
 
Dec 17, 2022
1,325
Remember how Palpatine ordered every person who knew about his involvement with the separatist movement to come to Mustafar and had them murdered? That's how he hid his tracks.

Ah, you're right… I forgot, that was one of Vadar's first duties as Darth.

In Ahsoka she mentions that her sisters have been calling her in her dreams. The vision line was a reference to that because they were calling to her from another galaxy.

I suppose I can see that, and we won't know the fruits of that vision until we find what was in the caskets that Thrawn took with him. Perhaps it's something to restore the Night Sisters (her people)? When framed like that (promise of restoration of her people) I can see why she'd subjugate others to do so. It still doesn't really give her character as much substance, as most of that is based on speculation and a long narrative. That said, would have been better to see this story closer to "Heir to the Empire" so there's be something to bring more gravity to her actions.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,768
Ah, you're right… I forgot, that was one of Vadar's first duties as Darth.



I suppose I can see that, and we won't know the fruits of that vision until we find what was in the caskets that Thrawn took with him. Perhaps it's something to restore the Night Sisters (her people)? When framed like that (promise of restoration of her people) I can see why she'd subjugate others to do so. It still doesn't really give her character as much substance, as most of that is based on speculation and a long narrative. That said, would have been better to see this story closer to "Heir to the Empire" so there's be something to bring more gravity to her actions.
Given that the coffins in Ahsoka absolutely resembled the Dathomirian coffins we've seen before it's highly likely that her ultimate goal was the restoration of her people. Who will presumably lash out against the galaxy like she was for decades.
 
Jun 24, 2019
6,528
That's how I felt. I finally got to watch it today, and overall I was left disappointed. The Morgan storyline is basically a whole lot of nothing. The first episode was the best of the bunch, but that was because of everything happening around her, not anything to do with her specifically. It was definitely fun seeing Grievous again, and watching the destruction of the Nightsisters from another point of view, and it was definitely cool to see another Dathomirian culture, but as for Morgan herself...

Well, we learn that she was a bad kid who got others killed in the name of revenge. Then becomes a bad adult who kills and subjugates others in the name of revenge.

There's supposed to be some irony that in her quest for vengeance she's become like the people she seeks to destroy, but it falls flat, partially because none of the people she's subjugating and being cruel to have anything to do with her past, and it's been so long since it happened that the Separatists are long dead. Like, by the point of the final Morgan episode, Grievous flamed out over 3 decades prior, and the Confederacy itself along with him.

If the story was about her struggle with desiring revenge against an enemy who is long gone, and the anger and lack of fulfillment she feels against being unable to strike back against those who hurt her, then okay, that's a valid motivation...but we don't really see that when she's trying to sell the Empire on her new ship designs and trying to strike good business deals with them. So it makes that first episode feel pretty disconnected from everything that comes after, and makes those following two episodes feel like things are happening just because, since they don't seem to tie in with her supposed motivation.

I get that visually, they do try to tie everything together, with her burning the forest at the end, similar to how Grievous burned down the forests of Dathomir, but in-universe she doesn't really give a reason for why she does that. Some ambassadors from the New Republic shows up, so she kills them and then decides to burn down all the forests right outside her city because...? I guess because Grievous burned down her forests, and she hates Grievous, so she'll do the same. It's weird.

The Barriss stuff on the other hand is decently good. The trouble with it is that it tries to stuff too much into too short of a time frame. Unlike with the Dooku story from Tales of the Jedi which showed us bits of his life throughout the decades, with each piece building towards the greater story of his total disillusionment (first with the Republic, then the Jedi Order, and finally the Jedi Council), Barriss' story doesn't feel like it builds to something grander in total.

Barriss starts off being disillusionment with the Jedi and then begrudgingly joining The Inquisitors. Cut to her being an Inquisitor, but One of the Good Ones™ who doesn't actually ever do anything bad, and then almost instantly becomes disillusioned with the Empire. Cut to her then being a wise old reformed Jedi who has seemingly made up with Ahsoka(?!) and atoned for her past misdeeds... And by "misdeeds", I mean the single temple bombing, because we're not shown her doing anything evil as an Inquisitor. If anything, compared to the rest of them, she was an absolute saint.

I don't have a problem with the broad strokes of the story either. It actually makes a lot of sense that Bariss, a person who was so disillusioned with the Jedi for becoming warriors and killers would also eventually have similar problems with the Inquisitors, a group who are far worse. Her deciding to leave the Inquisitors is

We're teased with Barriss and Vader interacting, which should be a big deal considering their history, but nope. The most we get is a glance. We're teased with the idea that Barriss and Ahsoka have reunited, which should be a big deal considering their history, but nope. The most we get is an off-handed comment. Heck, we also know that The Grand Inquisitor himself was one of the Temple Guards who brought Barriss to trial, and the experience was what made him himself question the Jedi Order and fall to the dark side. You'd think there'd be a bit more interaction between them, given that, but once again, no. They fight a little, he introduces them to Darth Vader, that's the extent of it.

Instead the meat and potatoes of the Barriss story is her relationship with Lyn / Fourth Sister. Which is...fine. The trouble with it is that we don't really know Lyn as a character. We see her briefly in the Obi-Wan series being all Inquisitorius, and then we see her again her, again being extremely evil, slaughtering dozens of innocent people in the name. We're told that Barriss knows her from her time as a Jedi, but we're not given any insight into their past relationship. Were they friends? Acquaintances? Did Lyn hate Barriss for betraying the Jedi at the time? Did she agree with her? Who knows.

Ultimately, we're supposed to sort of sympathize with Barriss' struggle in the end to reach Lyn, but Lyn is barely even a character, and nothing we've seen about her thus far makes her seem redeemable. She's not even given a motivation for joining The Inquisitors or questioning the Jedi the way Barriss is, so as far as the audience knows maybe Lyn was always just someone who was a sociopath, just waiting for permission to slaughter people.

It just feels like a missed opportunity, because Barriss has so much history with so many other characters, but we get none of that. Heck, we don't even know how she felt about Order 66 and the Jedi being wiped out. Is she cool with Palpatine being the Emperor now; serving the same guy who oversaw her trial? Even if she doesn't realize Anakin is Vader, seemingly she might have some feelings about those two things. The little bits of dialogue we get in make it sound like she's cool with all the way things went down, and she only disagrees with slaughtering innocent people and surrendering Jedi, but that leaves so much unanswered about how she got to that point.

Which I guess is my biggest problem with the Barriss episodes. They feel like they skip over far too much. It feels like the show should have been 6 episodes of her. We need to see her conflict in learning that the Jedi Order was destroyed, because as much as she felt they lost their way, surely she would have been saddened or at least shocked by their destruction? We need to see her actually believing (or trying to convince herself that she believes) that the Empire and the Inquisitors are a force for good in the galaxy, before becoming more and more disgusted with them before her eventual betrayal. And while we don't actually need to see what happens in the years between her leaving the Inquisitors and becoming Old Woman Barriss, a little more in-between to flesh it out would be nice.

It's quite the leap for the first two episodes take place over the course of what is probably a couple years, and then have the next episode jump probably a decade or more into the future. That would be fine if every episode featured a similar time skip, but instead of a beginning, middle and end, it sort of feels like two beginnings (Barriss joins the Inquisitors, Barriss starts her new life) and a distant ending (Ancient Barriss accepts the end of her life). Again, I think this could have been solved with more time and episodes. This was just too much of a story to cram into 3 (not even full length) episodes.
Yep yep yep. We couldn't connect with Morgan because there isn't anything we can relate to. Same thing with Lyn, we have no idea who she was nor was she compelling. And much like Reva from Kenobi, the motivations of these characters are hogwash. How can we sympathise them when they're evil for the sake of it.

Bariss's episodes had so much potential but they left out so many things as you mentioned. It's as if the writer didn't watch TCW and was just going by the wikipedia page.

It's great she ends up choosing the path of peace, but she doesn't need to be a Jedi to be spiritually one with the Force. Her criticisms of the council and war were entirely valid, which makes the sudden return back to her jedi beliefs inconsistent and little sense. There's no logical progression how she made that switch.

It also leaves us guessing about her views on Anakin/Vader, the massacre of her Jedi peers, and the execution of her Master Luminara Unduli. Despite those important characters, you'd think would deeply impact her, but her story concludes with Lyn, a character we barely know.
 

Fnnrqwin

Member
Sep 19, 2019
2,330
I will say it took me until halfway through the second episode to remember who Morgan is, and I've seen all of Mando and Ahsoka. I feel like I got more out of her character in this than in either of those.
 

Sonnymuldoon

Member
Jan 2, 2020
137
I thought this was largely boring and kinda terrible. Morgan is a character that no one has cared about and nothing in this tried to make her more interesting than we already knew.

Seeing Grevious again was nice but her story played out exactly like I already thought it was, no twists at all.

I think the Baris stuff made me more mad tho, the show is gorgeous and the first episode was nice but the second showing she was a good inquisitor and left immediately after evil happend is so boring.

You could do such an interesting story about her already ties to Ahsoka and how she was trained by Anakin Vs Baris trained by Vader. So many fun potential angles and rivalry's and I got nothing.

I know it's wrong to criticise a show for not being a different story but Baris had such a fun lay up for an excellent narrative and I got nothing except her dying to redeem a literally who character. I'm mad.

I hope they keep making these but gosh I hope the next batch is better, I expected more filoni.
 

LV-0504

Member
Oct 6, 2022
3,026
My takeaway from this thread is that people had extremely high expectations for 3x 12-15 min episodes.
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,768
I think the Baris stuff made me more mad tho, the show is gorgeous and the first episode was nice but the second showing she was a good inquisitor and left immediately after evil happend is so boring
It would be incredibly problematic to have a character like Barriss go full fascist when the only reason she committed acts of violence in the first place was to make a point about her institution's fall from grace. That doesn't make her a fascist it just puts her in the category of people like Saw Gerrara, (whose extremism also involved harming civilians), only unlike him she chose to stop waging war and became a healer.
 

zoodoo

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,880
Montreal
I don't get something about Morgan?

The empire wiped out her entire village yet she went to work for them? Why? As far as I know she did not get revenge on anybody
 

ArkkAngel007

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,064
The Separatists wiped her people out, for the public they´re totally different from the Republic/Empire
It's possible Morgan figured it out, but never really got to a position to both act on it and retain her self-serving positioning. I wish her time in Ahsoka played more with that than a single line.
 

Blank

Member
Oct 27, 2017
472
But she knew of Grevious and Doku and they were all working for Palpatine. So she did not figure that out?

Probably not? Both died a year later and it's not like it was widely known about Palpatine, it's really just the audience watching that "knows". I took her arc to be her wanting revenge on Separtists who were still not part of the Empire (look at what happened to the Geo's after the rise of the empire). She was trying to use the Empire to gain power/status to crush those enemies.
 

Yukari

Member
Mar 28, 2018
11,818
Thailand
It's possible Morgan figured it out, but never really got to a position to both act on it and retain her self-serving positioning. I wish her time in Ahsoka played more with that than a single line.

But she knew of Grevious and Doku and they were all working for Palpatine. So she did not figure that out?

Probably not? Both died a year later and it's not like it was widely known about Palpatine, it's really just the audience watching that "knows". I took her arc to be her wanting revenge on Separtists who were still not part of the Empire (look at what happened to the Geo's after the rise of the empire). She was trying to use the Empire to gain power/status to crush those enemies.

She Want Empire power to to restore the Nightsister clan and Dathomir.

Will Rebel/New Republic do that? Likely not.
 

ArkkAngel007

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
5,064
She Want Empire power to to restore the Nightsister clan and Dathomir.

Will Rebel/New Republic do that? Likely not.
Keep in mind, Morgan likely was unaware there was a way to restore the Nightsister's until the Great Mothers of Peridia reached out. Up to that point, it was to seemingly put herself in a position of power to not be in such a situation again or be looked down upon.

Whether that extended to taking action beyond in retribution, we likely won't know. Thrawn knew the Emperor and thus the Republic facilitated the Clone Wars, but he may not have shared that or that may not even be canon given how different Zahn Thrawn operates from Filoni Thrawn.

Of course, she was likely in the loop of the Shadow Council to a degree and knew that the New Republic couldn't come to terms with the price of its victory over the Empire to remain in its seat of power.