Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
What is this post? Of course not, he did not say that. Do you go to the cereal section in your supermarket, drop to your knees and scream: I can't afford all these cereals! Obviously not. You pick the one you like, maybe compare prices for a bit and then move along. Maybe next time the cereal you chose comes with a new packaging; Same taste, same size and for all intents and purposes it is the same thing as the one you bought last week but now it's a bit pricier because of the new packaging. Seems fair, someone had to put in the labor to make that and you feel like the price is not that much of an issue and are happy to pay it. Now suppose someone else comes along and sees that the new packaging does not justify the costs increase. No problem, he just chooses another one and goes on with his day.

So in this picture where does fuck does "entitled" even come into it?

How the hell did people making a case for why or why they won't drop money for this remaster suddenly become a opportunity to label them as "entitled". One guy drops a "PC gamers only spend 5 dollars for their vidja games hurrr durrr" and suddenly it becomes ok to label anyone the same.

The issue people are taking is all the people who are indeed dropping to their knees and exclaiming how they just cannot stand these anti-consumer practices and refuse to support it. Like, get over yourselves. I'm sure there's a lot of people like you, but that's not what people here have a problem with. It is entirely fair, you would agree, for Bamco to charge for this. It's also fair for you not to buy it. However, criticizing Bamco for being dirty thieves for charging for it is not fair; it is childish and entitled. There's a difference.
 

khamakazee

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,937
I want the option to play it with friends in the future, who might now own it currently. I want people to be able to purchase the game in order to play with their friends who only have the original.

This is not an issue of splitting the userbase. The amount of PvP-players playing the original Dark Souls post-Remaster will be insignificant.

And I'm not sure what you mean with "making sure people are entering the same version of the game". Are you saying people will be confused and buy the original by mistake, and this is the solution to that problem?

The solution is for them to keep the original on the store while offering the new one and they are under no obligation, no matter how much anybody cries foul, to offer this upgraded version for free.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
Dirty thieves......fuck me.

What's the issue? That's how some people are acting.

It's hilarious to because like, last time, Bamco offered a 50% discount for Scholar, and yet people were being all "oh bamco those scumbags if they don't offer a discount I'm not buying, and they probably won't." And then they did.

And in this very thread "lol it's probably not even 50% those greedy guys at bamco." And then it was.

People are angry they don't get something for free that really isn't owed to them. It's fair to say "okay I won't buy it." It's silly to get all up in arms. Bamco does not owe you anything.

I want to be able to play it with friends in the future. I want people to be able to purchase the game in order to play with their friends who only have the original.

This is not an issue of splitting the userbase. The amount of PvP-players playing the original Dark Souls post-Remaster will be insignificant.

And I'm not sure what you mean with "making sure people are entering the same version of the game". Are you saying people will be confused and buy the original by mistake, and this is the solution to that problem?

Because there are probably some people who will be misinformed that think that the old version looks better because it wasn't washed out like the awful footage from the new one. There is no reason to allow people to buy the old one. Your use case is the minority, and moreover, it encourages splitting of the playerbase further, because some will get convinced to buy the old version and some will buy the new one. THIS IS BAD FOR THE HEALTH OF THE POPULATION OF EITHER.

And yes, it's not uncommon for people to have bought vanilla D2 not realizing it didn't include the DLC or wasn't the new version.

Furthermore, you have had literally 6 years to buy the old version.

And further on than that, encouraging someone to get the inferior version of the game to play with you is selfish and dumb. If you really care that much about playing with someone, then wait for this to get a discount. The original was regularly on sale for $5. I doubt this one is going to avoid sales too.
 

Deleted member 3010

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,974
No thank you, I'll stick to the OG version + DSfix.

I'm not paying that sum to have a functional settings menu with modern graphical checkboxes and sliders. The config file does the job just fine. :lol
 

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont
I held off on buying DS1 because I suspected a remaster was coming out. With the amount of enjoyment I've gotten out of DS2/DS3/BB I can justify $40 for a Remaster as long as it functions properly. It's funny, a lot of the people complaining about $20 for the upgrade are the same people posting in the other DS:Remaster threads saying they were sticking with PTD/DSFix version anyway.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
I held off on buying DS1 because I suspected a remaster was coming out. With the amount of enjoyment I've gotten out of DS2/DS3/BB I can justify $40 for a Remaster as long as it functions properly. It's funny, a lot of the people complaining about $20 for the upgrade are the same people posting in the other DS:Remaster threads saying they were sticking with PTD/DSFix version anyway.

Also a few who demanded a discount but said Bamco would never do it lol.....
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,020
Not sure if I'll bite. Dark Souls 1 on PC used to be a broken disaster (literally couldn't play it) but it's better since they removed GFWL. DSFix is good too.

I've struggled to get into these games but maybe now's the time to try.

What's the issue? That's how some people are acting.

It's hilarious to because like, last time, Bamco offered a 50% discount for Scholar, and yet people were being all "oh bamco those scumbags if they don't offer a discount I'm not buying, and they probably won't." And then they did.

And in this very thread "lol it's probably not even 50% those greedy guys at bamco." And then it was.

People are angry they don't get something for free that really isn't owed to them. It's fair to say "okay I won't buy it." It's silly to get all up in arms. Bamco does not owe you anything.

Remember that different people are usually complaining each time.
 

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont
Also a few who demanded a discount but said Bamco would never do it lol.....

Yup.

If you don't want to buy the game because you feel like you were burned in the past I get it, but saying it's because they are charging for the remaster is silly. I understand the original port was pretty shitty, but that's the risk you take buying games without waiting for the reviews and what not. At least now Steam allows refunds which helps force developers to ensure their PC Ports work well.
 
Oct 27, 2017
704
I think the discounted $20 is a fair price. True, the original was pretty much a textbook example of how not to release a port, but people still bought it in droves ala DSfix. Wish they hadn't messed with the lighting though.
 

ghibli99

Member
Oct 27, 2017
18,052
I'm not gonna buy this again on Steam (waiting for the delayed Switch version), but in the meantime, I'm going to replay PtDE again w/ dsfix. Never played through the DLC, so might as well do that this time around. Gonna mess with that PtDA mod too. Seems interesting in a SotFS kind of way.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
Remember that different people are usually complaining each time.

Right I totally do, but I saw some familiar faces. Not worth calling people out. They know who they are. If they want to be childish and keep complaining they'll do that.

I guarantee you even if this was free there would still be dozens of people shouting "LOL IMCOMPETANT BAMCO TOOK SIX YEARS TO RELEASE A DECENT PORT." and "How dare they even consider charging for this! I won't even get it free on principle!" You can't please people who just want to be mad they don't get something immediately for free.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
If the original looks better, which in turn could lead people to purchasing the wrong version, they should simply note on the store page which version they're buying, like they did with Scholar of the First Sin. Removing the game is a bad solution to that problem.

No, because allowing for that option splits the playerbase. Doing what they did for Scholar was unfortunate, but necessary because they are two different games. If they were not, they probably would have taken away DS2 vanilla. Notice they actually have removed the option to buy DS2 vanilla without the DLC.

There absolutely are reasons to allow people to buy the original version of a game. And again, if people are convinced to purchase the original over the Remaster ... I think there's an inherent issue with the Remaster itself. If the Remaster is a better version than the original, splitting the userbase should be of no concern. But if it's the other way around, there's an incentive to purchase the original ... but you think it's better to remove that incentive? What's the point of prioritizing the userbase if you're removing the good version, and replacing it with a bad version? I'm not saying that's the case, but that's the scenario you're painting here.

Maybe because the original is cheaper? That's not a problem with a remaster. That's just an issue with how prices work. They want people to all play on the same version, and allowing people to get the cheaper older version goes against that.

Any incentive to go buy the original at this moment, if you do not own dark souls, is a bad incentive, and not worth splitting the playerbase for everyone else.

Haha, sure. But I don't think that's relevant, or a particularly good reason to remove a game the store. I have a friend who owns the original and I have a friend who doesn't. If we all want to play Dark Souls in the future, we are all required to purchase the Remaster.

I would agree with you if they weren't replacing it.

I don't personally care which version we play. I'll play the Remaster either way, but buying the game again for $20 is not an option for friend #1, and paying $40 for the Remaster is not an option for friend #2, so it's a lose lose for everybody involved.

Why is $40 not an option? And if it's really not an option....why are you so concerned about buying it now when it's $40. Your friend has waited six years and hasn't got the game. Why would they suddenly absolutely need it now? Except....not now. They'll need the original, on May 10. Right? No. That's nonsense. If your friend wants the original right now, then buy it right now for $20. If they don't and are in no hurry to get it, why not wait for a sale, which this is guaranteed to get. I bet you it will by this summer sale even.

Your friend has the info right now to make the decision. If they are that concerned, they can get it right now. If they're not that hyped on getting it right away, then why not wait until the new version is on sale with the properly done framerates, dedicated servers, and quality of life adjustments.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
I think you're vastly overstating the importance of the userbase, and as I said before; having the original available for purchase will have a negligible impact on the amount of players playing the Remaster, if any at all. I'm confused why this is even in dispute. They're not removing the original out of courtesy for the fans.

Only reason it could have an impact, would probably be due to the Remaster being subpar. And again, if that were the case, I don't see how it's better for everybody to remove the good version and replace it with the inferior one; leaving people with no choice. The "userbase" won't be better for it.

The idea that they would remove the old version because the remaster is worse is laughable. Furthermore, it quite clearly is not.

And I don't know why you continue act both like having the original is very important, but also not important to the playerbase. Choose. If it is important, then it needs to be more important than the impact it will have on the playerbase. If it is not important, then there is no need to keep it around.

To me, the online portion of Dark Souls is a major part of what makes it unique, and all incentive to get more players onto it is a good thing, not just from my standpoint, but from that of everyone who plays.

You've even talked about how if you want to play with your friend, both need the remaster. YES. That gets more people into the remaster, boosting the playerbase.

Notice there is no mention of removing the xbox 360 version from the store. I get they might eventually just because that might seem weird to some people, but really there's not much need. Yes, it's BC, but there's not near as much incentive to split the fanbase there, so removing it really isn't as important. And lo and behold, they aren't doing it.

I don't know why you think they're not removing it out of "courtesy for the fans." I mean, duh, it's not purely for that. It's so that new players want to play the game. If you had two versions of Halo, it would make sense to only have the new version sold, so that new players have motivation to buy the new one instead of the old one, and keep the playerbase in the best version. New players are guaranteed to buy the new one, but if you want all of them to, then you need to make that the only option, so that people aren't put off by dying playerbases. Anything that can be done to keep that as high as possible is a good thing, and this is literally one of the most effective ways of doing that.

I don't see how their reasoning matters, but simply put, they aren't invested in gaming all that much. Maybe we'll talk about playing it in a month, a year or 5 years.

And I think it's quite obvious why friend #1 isn't keen on paying $20 again for the same product, and why friend #2 isn't keen on paying $40 for a 6 year old game.

Which is why I said wait for a sale if they are not in a rush....

Like, that's how this works. If the game is not worth $40 to you then don't play $40. Wait till it is a different price.

EDIT: and look, dude like. I do gotta concede. It's sucky to remove it. I'm not dismissing your plight. It's just personally, I feel like this is the best course of action for the greater good, negatives and all. I wish they would release this for free, but I understand why they aren't. And with that as a given, this seems like the wisest course of action in my view.
 
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texhnolyze

Shinra Employee
Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,375
Indonesia
Also a few who demanded a discount but said Bamco would never do it lol.....
The demand for a discount was mostly posted before the gameplay reveal of this remaster last month. At the initial remaster announcement, people expected to get a much better polished remaster than this. After the gameplay reveal, most people were disappointed, and they feel even a 50% discount wouldn't justify their purchase. Especially with the discussions about how the original looks better than the remaster.
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
The demand for a discount was mostly posted before the gameplay reveal of this remaster last month. At the initial remaster announcement, people expected to get a much better polished remaster than this. After the gameplay reveal, most people were disappointed, and they feel even a 50% discount wouldn't justify their purchase. Especially with the discussions about how the original looks better than the remaster.

Nope. Significant amount of posts even in the reveal thread. People even said "Well especially now that it's just DSFix hur dur, it had better be at a discount."
 

SirFritz

Member
Jan 22, 2018
2,101
Also a few who demanded a discount but said Bamco would never do it lol.....
Namco originally said there was a discount back when this was revealed before mysteriously removing it from their site. It wasn't something people just demanded out of thin air.

dark_souls_remastered_pc_discount_leak_1.png
 

Chettlar

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,604
Namco originally said there was a discount back when this was revealed before mysteriously removing it from their site. It wasn't something people just demanded out of thin air.

dark_souls_remastered_pc_discount_leak_1.png

Right and then it was removed because they hadn't finalized it. Bamco majorly screwed up. They didn't say they weren't doing it though. It's clear the information was just revealed earlier than they had intended. Given how badly they bungled things like the reveal gameplay and stuff, yeah, this isn't surprising to me. I mean they accidentally said HDR, but then apparently it's not getting HDR. Or maybe it is in an update. Who knows.

I know it wasn't something people demanded out of thin air. It told people that they probably would, given they did with Scholar, and that was a major remix of the game.

And this doesn't change the fact that many people were saying Bamco would never make provide a discount. That is a fact, and so is the literal posts at the beginning of this thread saying it wouldn't be 50% despite the information being available on the first page, AND back when the image you're showing here got released, AND back when Scholar came out for that game. But some people want to be negative instead of reasonable. Any reasonable person could have predicted that they were at least going to provide a discount.
 
Dec 6, 2017
11,057
US
If you pump up the gamma or white level, lower black levels a bit to compensate, and play around with the contrast and/or saturation, you'll probably get something close to the original bloom (i.e. crushed whites in the sky & saturated skybox) back. But I imagine the dark areas will be too dark since the lighting model is likely tuned with the assumption that you don't mess around with this stuff too much. You can already test it by running the gameplay video on your TV. The difference in specular mapping on armor (its original chrome-like quality) won't be affected though, if that's what you're looking for.

Thanks for the answer.

jRN70nK.gif
 

BlacJack

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
1,021
It doesn't matter if someone paid $5 or full price for it. People deserve a proper, functioning product. How dare we feel entitled to a PC port with effort put into it, right..?

That's the joy of capitalism. If it sucks, don't buy it. Consumers actually aren't entitled to a great product, we're entitled to decide what is worth our money. That varies from person to person.