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Oct 25, 2017
11,481
https://www.eurogamer.net/stellar-blade-review 4/5

At best, this all amounts to an embarrassing look for video games - the exact type of conversation that makes them seem just as juvenile and shallow as some outside of the industry still believe. Of course the gamers are debating boobs, what else would they be doing? At worst, however, it's incredibly toxic 'discourse' that's turned Stellar Blade into a lightning rod for harassment. You can like Stellar Blade's sexualisation without going on a hate campaign against all other types of women in games, and women working in the games space, but then admitting that would make too much sense.

What I'd much rather discuss is whether the feelgood hack-and-slash normal mode, or the more intentional, punishing hard mode is your preferred way to play. Or if everybody else found the extremely odd dialogue just as funny. How about that extravaganza of boss fights near the end? The music! There's a lot to love about Stellar Blade, and I want it to be remembered for its moreish combat and bizarrely appealing lack of personality, not this warped internet presence. I'm hopeful of that - as for all its weirdness and quirks, that magic flow-state combat loop is what's stuck in my mind.
 

bitcloudrzr

Member
May 31, 2018
14,083
This is a safe bet for PS+ Extra so I'll wait...

...although I'm still waiting for Forspokern though, any day now lol
Part of what they learned from HFW on PS+ Extra was you need to give a game two holiday periods, so the sales curve does not stall. Even if the game might not have sold like other fp games.
 

dglavimans

Member
Nov 13, 2019
7,809
I'm shocked this is scoring so high. I'm almost done with my review copy and I think it's incredibly mediocre. You have things like passable level design, but also very bland quests. The combat is alright (though not particularly great), but the characters and story are so incredibly boring that it's been hard for me to stay engaged. The dialogues are so stilted and the (English) voice acting is so poor that it often comes across as incoherent. Eve especially is basically a sexy doll and nothing else. She has no real desires, motivations or interesting traits. The game is more interested in incentivizing you to see her more and more naked than actually learn anything about her. The outfit you get for finding all the can collectibles says it all, but there are plenty of outfits before that that leave nothing to the imagination. My wife saw me play it and she was both fascinated and disgusted by what she saw.
Seems you found the reason why it scores so high :') sadly

Hope it's good but my friends really going ham because of the MC tells me so much on what they where going for
 

Keiriks

Omicron Persei 8 Logic
Member
Aug 19, 2021
6,250
Reykjavík, Iceland
Also: it's wild to me that breast physics have been around for well over a quarter century and they still use cheap and unnaturalistic 'spring-strut' mechanics. Like as long as it satisfies the inner 12 year old boy, you never have to be better or more subtle about visually depicting video game eroticism.
For a series as bad about this as it is, I remember Dead or Alive 6 had some shockingly realistic breast physics. There was real effort put into actual weight rather than just the standard random jiggling, with it logically changing based on the fabric and fit of the costumes. ofc this was the same game where the men all had the same flat body that barely looked textured so you can tell their priorities were real fuckin lopsided.
 

EntelechyFuff

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Nov 19, 2019
10,230
I see what you mean and I apologize for my vagueness sounding like I'm being a bit of a rhetorical weaseling. What I meant is in the sense of "games that are not necessarily going to depict people and their bodies, and their presentations in a 'realistic' way". That also could include extremely sexualized characters. I think there's a place for that. I haven't played the game—I've only seen trailers and read some reviews. But I feel like my complaints are that the game lacks the will to really EXPLORE sex and sexualized presentation. How does Eve feel about it? How does Adam or any other NPC react? What does beauty mean in the context of the world? How can this allegorically relate back to our current social concerns and realities? Where are the male gaze characters?

Also: it's wild to me that breast physics have been around for well over a quarter century and they still use cheap and unnaturalistic 'spring-strut' mechanics. Like as long as it satisfies the inner 12 year old boy, you never have to be better or more subtle about visually depicting video game eroticism.

I guess it could be boiled down to me feeling that the game likely doesn't go far enough. It reminds me of Anime where there's no shortage of large chested women or nudity but characters actually having sex or sexual relationships is in a shockingly small ratio. I wouldn't say Final Fantasy VII Rebirth is perfect about things (although I love it) but at least it depicts Tifa as somebody considered in-universe beautiful, subject to comments and objectification, having issues forming friendships due to a lack of genuine interaction due to her looks and her bartending job, lateral violence from other women, etc.




I see where you're coming from and I'm trying to not point to an absolute low bar and say "this is higher than that therefore everything is fine" but I don't feel like we're on some slippery slope right now. I feel like we're in a better place than we've ever been because I was a gamer in the 90s and 00s and I know how the depictions and discourse around women and their presentation and the hangups around playable women characters used to be. I look at the popular games played in the last couple years and I don't see them as being overrun with an increasing amount of sexualization. Mortal Kombat 1 feels like the big standout representative in that area looking at the top ten sellers of 2023. Yes, there's going to be problematic games and yes we'll be aware of them in a way we maybe weren't aware of the strip mahjong and princess maker games of 30 years ago. And yes, we should absolutely be discussing it and constantly in conversation about the kinds of art we get and the kind we want to see.



Oh by all means! I would never try to browbeat somebody into spending 70 USD on some piece of entertainment they have serious reservations about. I'm on the fence myself. There's lots of things I find appealing about SB from the mechanics to the art direction. There's things I feel neutral about with SB. And there's things I feel disappointment about with SB. I guess I have a few days to figure it out myself.
I appreciate your response: definitely don't feel like you need to be overly defensive here, I know sometimes conversations about stuff like this can be dicey but it's very obvious to me you're engaging in completely good faith. That's valuable and worthwhile all on its own.

I think you and I are basically in an accord regarding your comments around how the sexualization is just air-dropped into the game devoid of context. I definitely think something about that is "ickier" than say...what you say FF7 Rebirth does with Tifa (I haven't played it yet) or, on the opposite scale, a dedicated soft-porn game explicitly created to titalate. It adds a miasma of casualness that seems especially pernicious: "of course she is curvy and bouncy and glistening...why wouldn't she be?"

As a closer point of comparison, I'd even say the (ancient, forgotten) GameCube game PN03 is better in this regard. It also has a sexy lady being curvacious and doing gyrations in a future sci-fi setting, but it is very self-aware. Now, I'm not saying that game is some feminist triumph--far from it--but it goes back to a sense of honesty or straightfowardness. If you're going to go there: own it, and accept that people will criticise or be put off. Don't just drop some male gaze sex doll into a setting that has nothing to do with and no interest in male gaze sex dolls.

I think if this game WERE a more committed to the concept of a theoretical "sexy fashion show"--even in the context of sci-fi alien fighting--then it would paradoxically feel less egregious. But the fashion, sexualization and the core game elements feel like roommates of convenience, as it stands right now. They're not in conversation with one another, if that makes sense.

To be clear, that wouldn't solve my complaints if they were, but I think it would make the defense of high-fashion interest ring a bit more true.
 

thediamondage

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,370
Anyone know how long the game is? I seen one person played 60 hours but went for all endings etc. curious about length for just one play through .

I've read 25 hours or so for normal story completion, 35-50 hours to 100% the game. Trophies are not tied to difficulty so can go for 100% at any difficulty. Not sure about requiring NG+ or if you are locked out of collectibles or if you can get them post game or not.

I also haven't read anything about DLC, expansion passes, etc so no clue how that will factor in. Or what the deluxe edition adds, I assume more costumes but will have to look at that tonight.

Also saw a few tweets saying game releases tomorrow but my understanding was April 26th was NA release, I guess maybe factoring in worldwide times it must be sometime tomorrow in some regions.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,714
Between this and Lies of P, Korean developers seem to be coming for the ARPG crown. This doesn't look like something I'd want to spend $70 on but I'll grab it when it goes on sale.
 

Yinyangfooey

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,815
I'm shocked this is scoring so high. I'm almost done with my review copy and I think it's incredibly mediocre. You have things like passable level design, but also very bland quests. The combat is alright (though not particularly great), but the characters and story are so incredibly boring that it's been hard for me to stay engaged. The dialogues are so stilted and the (English) voice acting is so poor that it often comes across as incoherent. Eve especially is basically a sexy doll and nothing else. She has no real desires, motivations or interesting traits. The game is more interested in incentivizing you to see her more and more naked than actually learn anything about her. The outfit you get for finding all the can collectibles says it all, but there are plenty of outfits before that that leave nothing to the imagination. My wife saw me play it and she was both fascinated and disgusted by what she saw.

Everyone has their own opinions! Dragon's Dogma 2 got rated pretty high across the board and I thought it was a 7 at best lol
 

Mentalist

Member
Mar 14, 2019
18,139
Between this and Lies of P, Korean developers seem to be coming for the ARPG crown. This doesn't look like something I'd want to spend $70 on but I'll grab it when it goes on sale.
Crimson Desert looks like it wants to be this gen's Witcher 3 and/or BotW at the same time, so I'm really curious how that one will pan out. Though I somehow doubt I'll have the time necessary to actually play it.

The other seemingly insanely ambitious ARPG is Where Winds Meet, but that's from a Chinese developer. Would be interesting to get some feedback from the beta they ran this month.
 

jwhit28

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,075
I know you gotta promote your work, but I'd go insane if I had to go justify my review on twitter to organized hate groups emboldened by the owner and lack of moderation while arguing that 7 is a good for the thousandth time with the most encouraging reply being ai gibberish from the porn bots. It would make a pretty good Twilight Zone episode.
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,464
Anyone know how long the game is? I seen one person played 60 hours but went for all endings etc. curious about length for just one play through .
Seems to be 25 with doing a regular number of SQ's. 40+ for if you're going deep on it. If the demo is anything to go by, people who like it a lot will dump a lot more into it than that though.
 

CloseTalker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
30,880
Reviewing a bit better than I thought it would, which is nice. Loved the demo, excited to pick up my pre-order on Friday!
 

Super

Studied the Buster Sword
Member
Jan 29, 2022
6,713
I know you gotta promote your work, but I'd go insane if I had to go justify my review on twitter to organized hate groups emboldened by the owner and lack of moderation while arguing that 7 is a good for the thousandth time with the most encouraging reply being ai gibberish from the porn bots. It would make a pretty good Twilight Zone episode.

I remember the IGN reviewer who gave Starfield 7 had to defend the score in a twitter space.
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,410
Are there any reviews that talk about the biblical allusions in the setting?

I don't expect "Xenogears", and it sounds like the story overall isn't so hot, but I am curious about how far they run with the whole Adam/Eve/Lillith/Zion/Angel stuff.

Several reviews in the OP that went into the writing give the sense that...like, your post may have more thought put into it than the game in that regard. Just in the sense of they use the names for window-dressing, and if anything they may just be duping from other usage in pop-culture more than an allusion like you're wondering.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,389
Part of what they learned from HFW on PS+ Extra was you need to give a game two holiday periods, so the sales curve does not stall. Even if the game might not have sold like other fp games.

Yes, I read, but I was hoping it would be different for Forspoken.

Incidentall the only 3 fp games I bought at launch are HFW, Demon Souls and Returnal, after those got into Extra I decided to wait. Ofc they changed the policy right after that and still waiting for Ragnarok lol
 

EntelechyFuff

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Nov 19, 2019
10,230
Several reviews in the OP that went into the writing give the sense that...like, your post may have more thought put into it than the game in that regard. Just in the sense of they use the names for window-dressing, and if anything they may just be duping from other usage in pop-culture more than an allusion like you're wondering.
That's a bummer, but also very "PS2 era" of them as well.
 

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,779
Argentina
Several reviews in the OP that went into the writing give the sense that...like, your post may have more thought put into it than the game in that regard. Just in the sense of they use the names for window-dressing, and if anything they may just be duping from other usage in pop-culture more than an allusion like you're wondering.

A friend that reviewed the game told me that while the story is bland/generic/predictable, he found the lore to be quite interesting.

Maybe those that liked the story are coming from that angle.
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,827
Are there any reviews that talk about the biblical allusions in the setting?

I don't expect "Xenogears", and it sounds like the story overall isn't so hot, but I am curious about how far they run with the whole Adam/Eve/Lillith/Zion/Angel stuff.
Several reviews in the OP that went into the writing give the sense that...like, your post may have more thought put into it than the game in that regard. Just in the sense of they use the names for window-dressing, and if anything they may just be duping from other usage in pop-culture more than an allusion like you're wondering.
Yeah, it doesn't sound like they did much with that.


View: https://twitter.com/gameinformer/status/1783165304702386483
 
Nov 7, 2022
206
I gave it 5/10. There is an OK game here but the objectification and dehumanisation of women is undeniable and inescapable.

progressbar.com.au

Stellar Blade - Review | Progress Bar

South Korean developer Shift Up asks the question: What if NieR: Automata was less interesting and more horny?

I appreciate your writing style and thought you made some great observations, even outside the elephant in the room.
 

Gestault

Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,410
That's a bummer, but also very "PS2 era" of them as well.

It makes me think of a lot of the mid-budget RPGs from the PS2 era that sort of imply "lore" by cribbing names and terminology like that, yeah. This is a secondhand response on my part (I've just read a bunch of the reviews), but it really seems to be name-dropping at best. You can generally tell if a creator is talking about how something is "from the Bible" (in the Christian, capital "B") sense, but a big chunk of the terms are Apocryphal stuff with no mention of that distinction, that they're just referencing in 90s-era anime.
 

xenosys83

Member
Mar 19, 2024
269
I remember the IGN reviewer who gave Starfield 7 had to defend the score in a twitter space.

I honestly don't see why IGN are getting criticised for giving this game 1 point lower than it's current average score.

Do I disagree with IGN a lot? Sure, but people are being melodramatic. It's not like they've scored it 3 or 4 and I don't think they mentioned Eve's design once in their entire review irc. They talk about the characters being bland and lacking in any personality, which is a common complaint I'm seeing amongst other reviewers as well.
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
106,332
I honestly don't see why IGN are getting criticised for giving this game 1 point lower than it's current average score.

Do I disagree with IGN a lot? Sure, but people are being melodramatic. It's not like they've scored it 3 or 4 and I don't think they mentioned Eve's design once in their entire review irc. They talk about the characters being bland and lacking in any personality, which is a common complaint I'm seeing amongst other reviewers.

You will always have people that are sensitive about high profile games not getting the "right scores" regardless of whether or not there's a culture war attached to it, just the depressing state of things
 

Lightsong

Member
Nov 11, 2022
4,157
Washington Post (3/4)
I might misinterpret his words, but I find his arguments for the chartacter design really apologetic. I hope I just read it wrong, but to me it seemed like he basically says that it's totally fine, because that's how Korea is. He acknowledges that it's a problem, but very briefly and doesn't go deeper into why women in the West might find this rightfully disturbing, instead he brushes it off because Stellar Blade is a good game.
 

Aiqops

Member
Aug 3, 2021
14,047
Will either rent or buy later on sale I think. I still need to stop procrastinating and continue Rebirth.😅

Story and characters here being mediocore was pretty clear from the start, and not that uncommon in the genre. Bayonetta and DMC stories are basic as hell too. If DMCV for example didn't have spectacular gameplay mechanics and fun characters, then that story and level design wouldn't have carried anything.

So if the gameplay here and levels, as it seems, are fun enough I can see myself having a good time, even though I struggled with some of those parries in the demo.
 

Whittaker

Member
Jun 21, 2018
811
I appreciate your response: definitely don't feel like you need to be overly defensive here, I know sometimes conversations about stuff like this can be dicey but it's very obvious to me you're engaging in completely good faith. That's valuable and worthwhile all on its own.

[...]

I think if this game WERE a more committed to the concept of a theoretical "sexy fashion show"--even in the context of sci-fi alien fighting--then it would paradoxically feel less egregious. But the fashion, sexualization and the core game elements feel like roommates of convenience, as it stands right now. They're not in conversation with one another, if that makes sense.

To be clear, that wouldn't solve my complaints if they were, but I think it would make the defense of high-fashion interest ring a bit more true.

I likewise appreciate the conversation and I think we're probably on similar wavelengths on a lot of this. :)

are they androids created on beauty standard of a long gone human fascist government?

or it aint that deep?

That's honestly the kind of angle I was kinda hoping would be in the full game when I played the demo. Not as some sort of CYA "retroactive narrative justification" thing but it would be nice if the artistic choice was sort of contextualized within the work as part of a bigger picture.
 

xenosys83

Member
Mar 19, 2024
269
You will always have people that are sensitive about high profile games not getting the "right scores" regardless of whether or not there's a culture war attached to it, just the depressing state of things

What's a "right" score though? The ones that only certain groups of people agree with?

The problem is, regardless of how detailed and thorough a review might be, some will always attribute intent to something even when there is none. I'm already seeing people criticising the review saying it's only been marked down because of "SexUlAlzAtIoN" when the review doesn't even mention it.
 

gundamkyoukai

Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,233
You will always have people that are sensitive about high profile games not getting the "right scores" regardless of whether or not there's a culture war attached to it, just the depressing state of things

yep if anything this tame compare to some of the craziness we see before with other reviews.
As for reviews it around what i expect , so not bad for there first AAA console game.