belairjeff

J->E Localization
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,334
RIP to a legend.

One of my favorite Steve Albini stories I ever heard is when cloud nothings was working with Steve to record their second album "Attack on Memory," supposedly while they were tracking takes and recording stuff, Steve would be playing online scrabble and barely paying attention to their performances. That always stuck with me, that he didn't give a fuck about anyone or anything even when he was paid to do so, and that's what rock n roll is all about.
 

AlteredBeast

Don't Watch the Tape!
Member
Oct 27, 2017
4,791
Can't say anything not already said by others. The man produced many of the all time greatest albums. Ys alone would be enough to enshrine him in the hall of fame. RIP
 

elproducto

Member
Oct 31, 2017
574
This is a huge loss, he produced some of my favorite records of all time.

The Albini cut of In Utero is probably my favorite thing I own on vinyl.
 

shantyman

Member
Jan 30, 2018
96
RIP to a legend.

One of my favorite Steve Albini stories I ever heard is when cloud nothings was working with Steve to record their second album "Attack on Memory," supposedly while they were tracking takes and recording stuff, Steve would be playing online scrabble and barely paying attention to their performances. That always stuck with me, that he didn't give a fuck about anyone or anything even when he was paid to do so, and that's what rock n roll is all about.

Is it a little more nuanced than that:

I interviewed you last nine years ago, when Attack On Memory came out. And I remember there was this story that you didn't get along with Albini, because you said in an interview that Albini played Scrabble when you were in the studio.

Yeah, the whole Scrabble thing. I don't know what that was. Any time anyone asks me about Steve Albini, which is often, it's always, "Oh, did he play Scrabble the whole time?" And I have to be like, "No, that's not what he did." There is downtime when you're doing something like that. I'll look at my phone, and Steve Albini will play Scrabble. It wasn't some cruel remark where I was trying to tear him down. I was just like, "Hey, he likes Scrabble." I think people thought that meant he was lazy, which is insane, because he's the opposite of that.

Source: As Most Of The Indie World Turns Soft, Cloud Nothings Stay Aggressive
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,414
Gentrified Brooklyn
Steve Albini was definitely a complicated guy. He made some amazing records, and his sound was super distinctive. He basically created "the sound" for indie 90s alternative.

When people say he was "edgy," though, that's putting it very lightly. The guy would constantly push past the point of bad taste into some frankly despicable stuff. Frequent use of the n-word, rampant misogyny, dabbling in CSAM. Honestly I'm not sure that his later renunciation of that stuff was close to enough, though he did at least try.

And on the other other hand, the guy was someone with strong principles who didn't compromise on them. He wasn't shy about calling out how shitty the music industry was and was adamantly against corporatization of the indie scene. He refused royalties for producing work because he felt royalties for anyone other than the band were an insult.

Like so many influential figures, he was complicated and flawed. His influence will definitely be felt for decades to come.

I think it's because he genuinely, and without pressure, apologized. It didn't take a Rollingstone expose, no viral tik tok, just a rando twitter convo where he was like I was a piece of shit.

He was sadly a visionary in many ways including the edge-lord and 'ironic' hipster racism. What he did was no different then millions of young males are doing on the internet now; that's not to dismiss how terrible it was, but how terrible it is now where you can talk about being on 4chan when you were younger and no one checks you on what that really means ("I was just there for the hentai."). For someone who eventually came to the light, particularly as an infamous curmudgeon is a good thing that should be applauded, because man, on the internet I wish the worst (and I mean the worst) on dozens daily whenever I go into certain comments or topics. This makes me hope eventually they come to the light (of good or a speeding garbage truck).
 
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TheLetdown

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,821
RIP to a legend.

One of my favorite Steve Albini stories I ever heard is when cloud nothings was working with Steve to record their second album "Attack on Memory," supposedly while they were tracking takes and recording stuff, Steve would be playing online scrabble and barely paying attention to their performances. That always stuck with me, that he didn't give a fuck about anyone or anything even when he was paid to do so, and that's what rock n roll is all about.

Albini gave insight into this habit. He said he used to read the Economist while people performed, because of how dull and drab it was, until he started doing the Scrabble thing.

His point was that he was there to make sure the sound was captured correctly, not to influence the sound itself. By zoning out into the Economist or Scrabble, it let him not get lulled by watching an energetic performance or whatever, so he could rely strictly and solely on his ear.

It allowed him to catch things that sounded off.
 

RUFF BEEST

Member
Jun 10, 2022
2,143
Toronto, ON
Steve Albini was definitely a complicated guy. He made some amazing records, and his sound was super distinctive. He basically created "the sound" for indie 90s alternative.

When people say he was "edgy," though, that's putting it very lightly. The guy would constantly push past the point of bad taste into some frankly despicable stuff. Frequent use of the n-word, rampant misogyny, dabbling in CSAM. Honestly I'm not sure that his later renunciation of that stuff was close to enough, though he did at least try.
He spent many many years as a reformed person who called himself out and said he was wrong -- more time spent in repentance than in transgression. We're not talking about a guy who did a lot of fucked up things, just a guy who said fucked up things. Of course we must never dismiss people's reactions if they felt hurt or attacked, it's important to say, and I can't blame anyone in the groups he used to refer to in such callous terms for whatever feelings they have. But if spending decades of your life doing better and apologizing isn't "enough" in someone's estimation for saying something wrong then I personally find that exhausting. Even if someone directed that behavior directly at me, if he spent years publicly flagellating himself for it and being a good dude, I'd find my way through that. He often said he didn't expect to be given any quarter for what he said and the bad band/song names he used, but I believe we all have to think about what a path to redemption is for everybody and do the work to forgive people who grow from their mistakes.

Later in his life, Albini wouldn't hurt a fly. Not even juggalos, who I make fun of all the time.


View: https://x.com/electricalWSOP/status/1490719913111134210
 
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dryz

Member
Oct 30, 2017
249
Did he actually addressed directly the fact that he said he enjoyed, and defended child abuse and pornography? It's one of the most disgusting things I have ever read. Be warned if you decide to look those comments up. Absolutely vile.
 

septentrion2

Member
Apr 11, 2023
1,933
that he didn't give a fuck about anyone or anything even when he was paid to do so, and that's what rock n roll is all about.

That's not what rock n roll is all about.
That's what bad rock n roll is all about.

To say Albini "didn't give a fuck" about albums he produced is not correct. Dude got paid to do a job and he did the job to the best of his abilities.

He was a very "hands-off" producer, in the sense that he's rarely, if ever, going to be the type to add extraneous instrumentation like a producer like John Congleton or Phil Spector would. He's not going to try to drastically change the songs that the artists are hiring him to record.

Steve Albini had his rooms & equipment dialed in and optimized to make things sound a certain way. That's what people hired him for.

and there can be a LOT of downtime when you're tracking an album. Trying to drag the dude for playing some Scrabble when there's nothing going on is kinda lame. Cloud Nothings have even clarified, saying that was not meant as an insult or a jab at his work ethic. It's just what he did when there was downtime.
 
Sep 18, 2023
551
Did he actually addressed directly the fact that he said he enjoyed, and defended child abuse and pornography? It's one of the most disgusting things I have ever read. Be warned if you decide to look those comments up. Absolutely vile.
Somewhat.

First of all, I see a mod did already tell you not to post this. So if the mods don't want this addressed, lmk and I'll delete.

The comments being shared that you're referencing are related to Albini's friendship with Peter Sotos. Sotos was in the confrontational power electronics band Whitehouse (who Albini worked with). Like other industrial and power electronics bands of the time e.g. Throbbing Gristle, Whitehouse used fascist imagery and violent and misogynistic lyrics—they would argue for the purpose of communicating the vileness of those things. Sotos is also a writer, and he anonymously published Pure, which was billed as a fanzine dedicated to serial killers. In this magazine he wrote from the first person perspective as serial killers and child predators. Ostensibly this was a reaction to the satanic panic and day care abuse hysteria of the time in America—Sotos saw something being commodified and turned into daytime media fodder, so he wanted to make something so horrible feel confrontational and ugly again.

Sotos also republished photocopies of cp in Pure. He was rightfully convicted for this.

Albini defended the writing in the magazine at the time, and mimicked Sotos' first-person writing style in stuff like the Big Black tour diary you're referencing. Albini was not the only defender of Sotos, and Sotos was not the only writer working like this. Defenders of this mode would call it transgressive fiction, in the tradition of de Sade or Bataille or Nabokov. Sotos' work has been compared to Andrea Dworkin or Dennis Cooper, who write detailed accounts of abuse and violence. Sotos continues to write today, publishing accounts of real abuse and murder cases, which I imagine he would argue are literary depictions of the depths of human immorality and not endorsements of the events—the same way Lolita is not a grooming instruction manual. I'm not sure any of this is a satisfying defense of the merits of the literary work. It's not satisfying to me, and I have no interest in reading it. The transgressive fiction I have read, like William S. Burroughs or Kathy Acker, I find very stupid.

As for what Albini has said. Years later, when he was speaking up about his role in "edgelord" shit, he touched on his reasoning behind his transgressive impulses at the time and mentioned Sotos.
melmagazine.com

‘I’m Overdue for a Discussion About My Role in Inspiring ‘Edgelord’ Shit’: A Conversation with Steve Albini

In a recent Twitter thread, the famed audio engineer owned the ugly parts of his past — years of offensive music, statements and posts — and said his generation needs to talk about how culture has changed
Stuff like [your college performance art] seemed to inform who you became later as a punk musician and music producer. With your band Big Black, you came out and played music at the audience. You've said of your approach, "I wanted to push myself, the music, the audience and everything involved as close to the precipice as possible." What was the value, for you, to push both yourself and the audience to the edge?
The main thing that I was reacting against was an impulse that I saw in my peers to soften their art and their music so that it would be acceptable within the existing conventions of art and music. What I wanted to do was make music and art that was for its own sake, entirely, and irrespective of what other people had to say about it. It was a reactionary impulse on my part. The music and art that had meant the most to me had always been music and art that had existed for its own sake. The art that seems to inhabit its own universe where other people's expectations and perceptions had no influence. That's what I was trying to do. I was striving for an ideal that this music and this art would be a realm of pure ideas, and that it would be unconcerned with convention or acceptance.
It's hard for me to articulate, but there's a friend of mine, Peter Sotos, who's written extensively about abuse and murder and things of that nature. A lot of his writing is extremely difficult to read. It's repellent. You're brought into the mind of a sadist, pretty convincingly. And I feel like that experience, reading that stuff, is shocking to your core in the way that the horrors of the reality of those things should be.

Whereas this sort of Nancy Grace "bombshell tonight in the child murders of" — that sort of show-business softening of the impact of it, sort of turning it into a fucking board game, and turning it into a police procedural where there are heroes and villains and you're rooting for people… That whole thing has turned these horrible, monstrous, atrocious things into just another kind of soap opera. That stuff is embarrassing for our culture. There's something about using that as a vehicle for commerce, as the product that you sell — these existential horrors — and using that as a trinket to get people into a commercial stream. There's something repellent to me about that.
So: he did not bring up the specific comments you are referring to. He did bring up the impulses and cultural events that led him to make art that way and with those people, and brought those up as examples of thoughtless, unjustified "edgelord" shit he did that he believed he should be held accountable for. I don't imagine you or most people would find that sufficiently satisfying, but there's the full story.
 

Trike

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Nov 6, 2017
2,404
User Banned (2 Months): Platforming a terrorist
Warning: NSFL

mod edit: can we not platform one of the internet's most notorious trolls?

Nah fuck this pedophile, he's better off dead.
 
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BackLogJoe

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,260
Holy fuck.

Why was his past comments not well known?

I feel like I need to Clorox my eyes.

I hope his death was horrible for him.
 

Kraid

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,424
Cuck Zone
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RUFF BEEST

Member
Jun 10, 2022
2,143
Toronto, ON
Warning: NSFL

mod edit: can we not platform one of the internet's most notorious trolls?

Nah fuck this pedophile, he's better off dead.
Uh can we not signal boost that guy's medium account? thx. I also tjink blind posting that Albini was a "pedophile" when there are good breakdowns of the context (writing in-character, in-first-person fiction for a tastelessly edgy zine) in this thread is in poor taste. Why not engage with your fellow community members instead of ramming shitty medium.com screeds into the discussion?
 
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Coldman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,296
that's some stupid dickhead trying to get under people's skin. Albini's edgelord past has been well addressed and we wouldn't be celebrating his life if we had any reason to believe he was actually a monster, come the FUCK on people
 

BackLogJoe

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,260
that's some stupid dickhead trying to get under people's skin. Albini's edgelord past has been well addressed and we wouldn't be celebrating his life if we had any reason to believe he was actually a monster, come the FUCK on people

Nah dude. That's beyond edge lord shit. The quote about the cover of his friends magazine? If he had said that shit today, the FBI would be ransacking his house.
 

Coldman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,296
Nah dude. That's beyond edge lord shit. The quote about the cover of his friends magazine? If he had said that shit today, the FBI would be ransacking his house.

This isn't a conversation you get to join 10 years late and decide he deserved a horrible death. It was wrong then and is wrong now, and Steve literally said so himself. But if you're implying it was anything other than provocation, you're just wrong.
 

Falifax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
88
Nah dude. That's beyond edge lord shit. The quote about the cover of his friends magazine? If he had said that shit today, the FBI would be ransacking his house.

Well in that case it's a good thing he had over the past few decades matured and reflected on this stuff numerous times, and had stopped saying abhorrent stuff that would make FBI ransack his house.
 

BackLogJoe

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,260
This isn't a conversation you get to join 10 years late and decide he deserved a horrible death. It was wrong then and is wrong now, and Steve literally said so himself. But if you're implying it was anything other than provocation, you're just wrong.

I don't think you get to make the rules on the deadline if someone can comment on new information they have learned about someone. What he said is literally the most vile shit I've ever read. He could have cured cancer after saying that and I'd still think he was a vile piece of shit.
 

RUFF BEEST

Member
Jun 10, 2022
2,143
Toronto, ON
Nah dude. That's beyond edge lord shit. The quote about the cover of his friends magazine? If he had said that shit today, the FBI would be ransacking his house.
It can be easy to think like this when consuming monetized rage bait, but the fact is, using a single quote is a pretty weak case. You're right that it was a vile thing to write. But it was just cheap provocation from an edge lord who uses to count in "one two fuck you" for every song when he played live and who acknowledged and apologized for this kind of shit when he matured.
 

deadbass

Member
Oct 27, 2017
999
I do not recommend reading the pedophilia-related stuff that Albini wrote in that zine (I regret it), but I think you have to make clear that what he wrote is way beyond the pale of "edgelord" shit. It's some of the worst things I've ever read, representing an imagination that I find very frightening to consider. I think he did a lot of work to try to come to terms with the racist and sexist things he wrote on other occasions, but that stuff is so hard to grapple with that I think if people can't forgive him for it, it doesn't make them bad faith actors imo.

As for myself, I thought he was an amazing artist who had a hand in a lot of things I love. He seemed to become a lot more thoughtful and responsible as he got older, which I appreciate, but I still think the stuff he wrote lives in a class beyond typical youthful edgelord behaviour that can be easily forgiven.
 

BackLogJoe

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,260
It can be easy to think like this when consuming monetized rage bait, but the fact is, using a single quote is a pretty weak case. You're right that it was a vile thing to write. But it was just cheap provocation from an edge lord who uses to count in "one two fuck you" for every song when he played live and who acknowledged and apologized for this kind of shit when he matured.


Cmon man.

If this motherfucker hadn't produced timeless fucking albums that helped define peoples very existence, no one would be defending him. If he was a regular dude, he would be ostracized.

He said he's sorry?

People can say things that they don't get to come back from.

People who have been abused, like myself, read that shit and it fucking takes me back there. I don't care why he said it. It's greatly upsetting.
 

Coldman

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,296
I do not recommend reading the pedophilia-related stuff that Albini wrote in that zine (I regret it), but I think you have to make clear that what he wrote is way beyond the pale of "edgelord" shit. It's some of the worst things I've ever read, representing an imagination that I find very frightening to consider. I think he did a lot of work to try to come to terms with the racist and sexist things he wrote on other occasions, but that stuff is so hard to grapple with that I think if people can't forgive him for it, it doesn't make them bad faith actors imo.

As for myself, I thought he was an amazing artist who had a hand in a lot of things I love. He seemed to become a lot more thoughtful and responsible as he got older, which I appreciate, but I still think the stuff he wrote lives in a class beyond typical youthful edgelord behaviour that can be easily forgiven.

This carries some nuance which I appreciate. I can get behind what you're saying and I agree that Albini doesn't need to be forgiven for what he's done (I think calling a band "Rapeman" was bad enough, something I grappled with in the past).

At the same time, we need to be clear that the author of that Medium piece is the dictionary definition of a bad faith actor and anyone basing their opinion on Albini solely on that… Well, they shouldn't! Frankly!
 

PROh1bited

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,712
I don't think you get to make the rules on the deadline if someone can comment on new information they have learned about someone. What he said is literally the most vile shit I've ever read. He could have cured cancer after saying that and I'd still think he was a vile piece of shit.

Then make a fucking thread about it instead of shitting up this thread about someone that just died.
 

RUFF BEEST

Member
Jun 10, 2022
2,143
Toronto, ON
Cmon man.

If this motherfucker hadn't produced timeless fucking albums that helped define peoples very existence, no one would be defending him. If he was a regular dude, he would be ostracized.

He said he's sorry?

People can say things that they don't get to come back from.

People who have been abused, like myself, read that shit and it fucking takes me back there. I don't care why he said it. It's greatly upsetting.
I get that, and no one here is going to tell you your concerns are wrong, your feelings are invalid, or that you have to forgive him for this. It was terrible what he wrote, and that kind of performatively edgy/provocative crap was wrong then and wrong now. I think to your point, what DO you do with something like this that's part of the legacy of a person who did so many other great things that contributed so much to the world? It's valid that you've got a different take on how large it has to loom in his obit, here, especially for the reason you're citing. I'm truly sorry that this has all brought up something painful for you.
 

RUFF BEEST

Member
Jun 10, 2022
2,143
Toronto, ON
On a more personal note, I mentioned that I was booked to record with Steve this week. Electrical Audio is going to honor the session with Taylor (studio manager) engineering instead. I'm currently posting from my flight from Toronto to Chicago in fact. It will be very strange being there without Steve. I'll let the thread know if there are any good sights, sounds, or stories from my visit. We'll be in session on Wednesday and Thursday.

The staff at Electrical posted a statement about Steve's passing on their site:

 

Rellodex

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,208
I'm going to assume many of the people jumping in here to start shit just learned who Steve Albini was moments before posting and entirely lack context for anything he's ever said or done.
Funny enough, Earl Sweatshirt basically said the same thing as Steve did, just like ten years earlier. Basically "I joked about these things because I didn't understand the reality of what it actually meant."
 

oasis007

Member
Oct 27, 2017
744
On a more personal note, I mentioned that I was booked to record with Steve this week. Electrical Audio is going to honor the session with Taylor (studio manager) engineering instead. I'm currently posting from my flight from Toronto to Chicago in fact. It will be very strange being there without Steve. I'll let the thread know if there are any good sights, sounds, or stories from my visit. We'll be in session on Wednesday and Thursday.

The staff at Electrical posted a statement about Steve's passing on their site:

Damn man, that's heavy. I hope your sessions go well!
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,414
Gentrified Brooklyn
Funny enough, Earl Sweatshirt basically said the same thing as Steve did, just like ten years earlier. Basically "I joked about these things because I didn't understand the reality of what it actually meant."

That was the irony of Albini's rant; dude was mad a bunch of kids intentionally borrowing from the punk ethos were supposedly being offensive assholes…which is exactly him in 1985, lol. He even acknowledged it on some 'I know it might have them been fucking with us but still☹️', peak whiteness, lol.

As far as anyone's confirmed he disavowed it all and became an ally and not in a 'Omg, Im about to be cancelled, let me save my career' way like many faves walking around (shouts to Camila Cabello, Amy Winehouse, the Biebs, etc) particularly in an era where doing racist shit helps your career (shouts to Morgan Wallen). Dude did the work, and not a fucking apple notes apology. It's a good discussion to have, but as we saw this last banned last go around not in good faith.
 

EchizenKurage

Member
Apr 4, 2024
228
Dallas, TX
If I didn't have anhedonia this news would have torn me up. My friends and I had a house venue in Denton, TX and my roommates band and a lot of local bands were heavily inspired by Albini.

He also produced that criminally underrated Cath Carroll album

I have felt Prayer to God In my soul on more occasions than I care to count

RIP.
 

samred

Amico fun conversationalist
Member
Nov 4, 2017
2,607
Seattle, WA
My friends and I had a house venue in Denton, TX and my roommates band and a lot of local bands were heavily inspired by Albini.

I posted about Record Hop's Albini-produced album earlier in this thread, which is about as Denton-n-Albini as it gets. If you've never heard it, look it up after you get through today's Shellac record. Howdy from a former Dallas Observer music critic, and hang in there.
 

EchizenKurage

Member
Apr 4, 2024
228
Dallas, TX
I posted about Record Hop's Albini-produced album earlier in this thread, which is about as Denton-n-Albini as it gets. If you've never heard it, look it up after you get through today's Shellac record. Howdy from a former Dallas Observer music critic, and hang in there.



Record Hop was awesome! I'll check that out

And wow, small world huh? Wouldn't be surprised if we met. Haven't been to many shows lately but I was big in the scene in the oughts, my friend Chad runs rubbergloves. My friend Chuck does rock lottery if it's still a thing. I'm sure we have a lot of mutuals lol

Thank you for the kind words :)
 

smisk

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,034
Regarding the Steve's controversial statements - he's definitely said some stuff I would never say, but has there been a single person that's come forward and said he treated them badly? If anything seems like the opposite - everyone has espoused what a great and generous guy he was. IMO that far outweighs any edgy stuff he's done in the past.
 

Loud Wrong

Member
Feb 24, 2020
14,932
Regarding the Steve's controversial statements - he's definitely said some stuff I would never say, but has there been a single person that's come forward and said he treated them badly? If anything seems like the opposite - everyone has espoused what a great and generous guy he was. IMO that far outweighs any edgy stuff he's done in the past.
But those words that he apologized for mean he should "die a painful death" apparently.