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nded

Member
Nov 14, 2017
10,609
I would be surprised if Capcom patched anything this week beyond tournament mode (which is what the Shadaloo CRI site says). They don't usually work that fast.

I hope that the media attention to this event results in a public and positive response from Capcom. But the safest bet is to expect nothing but the worse response from Capcom.
I have serious doubts that Capcom would do anything to improve the netcode themselves this late into the game's life, so ironically my best case scenario is them continuing to do nothing until it's determined wether or not mod interactions with unmodded clients can be fixed.
 

Hyun Sai

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,562
Do you imagine how bigger the online community would have been if the netcode was like this day one ? This would have been my most played FG of the generation. Even if I prefer much more KoF and Tekken gameplay, SFV would have been decent enough to justify it, unlike all the other rollback FGs I really couldn't enjoy despite the netcode.
 

VariantX

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,912
Columbia, SC
Do you imagine how bigger the online community would have been if the netcode was like this day one ? This would have been my most played FG of the generation. Even if I prefer much more KoF and Tekken gameplay, SFV would have been decent enough to justify it, unlike all the other rollback FGs I really couldn't enjoy despite the netcode.

Can't even imagine. Considering even with the current borked rollback its still one of the largest. Capcom has pretty much everything they need to get SF6 right next gen and place it firmly at the top if SF6:

-ships with legacy controller support
-robust single player modes ...at the start
-better than current matchmaking algorithm (seriously I find it incredibly hard to believe there is no one at all playing the game my country (USA) and shouldn't match me with people in south america or UK)
-8 player or more lobbies
-online training
-properly working rollback netcode
-network connectivity indicators that ACTUALLY work (5 bars matches acting like 3 or 2 bar matches were a thing all the way back in SF4)
-a set of tutorials that let you actually do the things in them instead of making you watch a video
-properly integrating the competitive stuff in the game...( don't just mean plastering ads on loading screens, but incentivising players to tune into these things or having the game link directly to the tournaments)
 

LCGeek

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,863
Fighting games are peer to peer connections. Paying for better internet or having a 'better connection' isn't a real thing here because the only thing that matters is your direct connection with your opponent. You can't magically send him packets faster than they can send you packets. You have zero control over packet loss once the information leaves your home, just like they have zero control over this issue. The only thing you can do here is just avoid using Wifi... but if your opponent is using WiFi, packets will be lost and it will effect you both.

You both could ensure your networks are sending them as fast possible which I doubt both of you did on your nic then on your router if this is pc to pc instance.


There really is no such thing as being 'the person with the good connection' in these p2p cases outside of the above. Its just a matter of distance(time) and loss. Thats it. Paying for "faster" internet just gives you access to a fatter pipe. You can send and receive more data at once. But these games use very little data per second, and you don't need a fat pipe to play them nicely. And no amount of upgrades will actually make the data travel faster across the world.

Using private peering vpn vs isp would be a starter. The main benefit is this would skip your isp backbone if it's a pos.
Your isp wouldn't accerlate your data you can by using a better tuned router. Your router is always 2nd in line and if it has crappy tuning it's worse than what your modem gateway does to your latency eventually. Both are horrid bottlenecks but you can fix one of them.
Avoiding router features that hold or delay your packets.

Your isp isn't always the problem it could easily be networking processing which is local. You wouldn't know cause you're not using flent or tools to monitor where the real problem is and when it happened.

Bandwidth on the internet isn't what most people deem as speed since it's capacity in an instance.
 
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skillzilla81

Self-requested temporary ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,043
Do you imagine how bigger the online community would have been if the netcode was like this day one ? This would have been my most played FG of the generation. Even if I prefer much more KoF and Tekken gameplay, SFV would have been decent enough to justify it, unlike all the other rollback FGs I really couldn't enjoy despite the netcode.


I personally know like 30-40 people in just my state that would be playing SF5, KoF, GG, Tekken, SoulCalibur, DBFZ, and any other game if they had good netcode. Serious, competitive players that travel, run tourneys, attend locals.

JP companies are doing all of this work to build community, have a thriving competitive scene and are missing the most basic thing that would help the most. It's so fucking frustrating.

I personally stopped playing SF5 two years ago because the netcode just got way too tiresome to play on. I can't count the number of times that I hit confirmed an attack only to have it rolled back and not happen at all, and then suddenly I'm doing a special move that I thought would combo and instead get punished for.
 

LCGeek

Member
Oct 28, 2017
5,863
He's talking about p2p connections with random people online, how does a vpn even fit here?!

Routing which is critical like latency.

Gaming vpns exist. If you both of you were on it not only would hops be reduced but it would minimize either of you going through bad parts of your isp or in to your isp network and in to shitty hops to get to each other.

Last decade brought us some nice changes in networking but people are still learning to wield them especially in gaming.
 

Kashibaba

Member
Oct 25, 2017
267
I have serious doubts that Capcom would do anything to improve the netcode themselves this late into the game's life, so ironically my best case scenario is them continuing to do nothing until it's determined wether or not mod interactions with unmodded clients can be fixed.
I personally hope they force remove this patch and cover the exploit, since this patch thing happened, my experience with the game got so bad, and i get laggy matches so much more now (and I'm on PC).
 

Sixfortyfive

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,615
Atlanta
Fighting games are peer to peer connections. Paying for better internet or having a 'better connection' isn't a real thing here because the only thing that matters is your direct connection with your opponent. You can't magically send him packets faster than they can send you packets. You have zero control over packet loss once the information leaves your home, just like they have zero control over this issue. The only thing you can do here is just avoid using Wifi... but if your opponent is using WiFi, packets will be lost and it will effect you both.

There really is no such thing as being 'the person with the good connection' in these p2p cases outside of the above. Its just a matter of distance(time) and loss. Thats it. Paying for "faster" internet just gives you access to a fatter pipe. You can send and receive more data at once. But these games use very little data per second, and you don't need a fat pipe to play them nicely. And no amount of upgrades will actually make the data travel faster across the world.
While this is generally true, I'm going to tack on an addendum here for troubleshooting some problems that can exist and be solved at home:

Bad wiring at home can cause signal loss and related issues. At my previous residence, the cable connection came into the house on the bottom floor and had to be wired upstairs through several cables and a few splitters before it connected to the modem. This induced a ton of packet loss and generally poor performance across the board, and I had to get a local Comcast tech to boost the signal to fix it. I can imagine similar problems being caused by powerline adapters with less than stellar electrical wiring, too.

There are some articles out there that explain how to check your modem's status page and what you should be looking for there to diagnose poor signal levels:

The tl;dr is that downstream PL should not be too far above or below 0, downstream signal-to-noise should be 35+ (the higher the better), and upstream PL should probably be 40 to 45 but can vary a bit from that depending on specifics. If any of those numbers are way off then it's indicative of a problem between your modem and the local ISP and you should probably call a technician to fix it.

And even though bandwidth doesn't matter for gaming, doing a simple speedtest can still be useful in some cases. If you're paying for a 100down/20up connection, for example, but are only getting half of that in practice, then it's a sign that you're either being throttled or suffering some major signal loss somewhere.

A traceroute command to a few random websites (ex: open up Windows command prompt and type "tracert google.com") can also help pinpoint where in a connection chain that the latency spikes the most. If you're tracing a connection to a server on the other side of the planet, but your latency jumps up by 50ms or more before it even leaves your city, then that's a problem close to home.
 

arcadepc

Banned
Dec 28, 2019
1,925
As a person that has both PC and PS4 accounts, I have never seen anything in my experience that constitutes a warrant for this attitude whatsoever.

I have crossplay on PC enabled and when playing PS4 players never experience the amount of detrimental lag that seems to be what everyone is complaining about besides people with already terrible connections even on PC.

There is no difference, and I dont understand this "this is what PC players have been feeling all the time"...when....where the fuck? I've never experienced any of that shit.

One also has to take into account that many pc players use low end PCs and laptops and game might not even hit 60fps,which makes things worse, with or without patch
 
Jul 26, 2019
253
Didn't install the patch yet, wanted to try how overall experience changed with crossplay enabled before trying out. Played casual a bit with connection at 4-5 and all of the players I have matched was PC players. Out of 5 matches 1 felt laggy but playable (no teleporting), others felt pretty smooth even without the patch. Considering some of them installed patch.

It would be very good if Capcom try to handle the issue constructively instead of sweeping under the rug. There is very low hope for making improvements to netcode of SFV now but if they take this reaction serious, at least they can make SF6 online better.

BTW I have a question regarding SFV's netplay.

With or without patch, I have a random freeze that ranges from 0.5 second to 3 seconds (if it gets really bad), once per set or once per match if I'm unlucky.

This is extremely frequent and I have not been able to pinpoint what is causing it. Sometimes I have flawless matches with no such thing, no teleport etc...

I wonder what causes the freeze. The funny thing is that it clearly also freezes my opponent.
I don't suddenly lose my health or anything like that and no teleport follows. It seems like the game having to freeze for us to resync.

I monitored my disk, CPU, and GPU and network during play and sure enough none of them dropped when the game did. I also believe it happened to me on ps4 when I played it last month.

No issue on any other game obviously. Does that ever happen to you guys ? Do you have any idea what's the cause ? Or any fix possible ?

Thanks.

Ps : And obviously now that the matches are perfect, this hiccup stands out that's why I'm trying to figure it out :) . Before I just shrugged there was too much to fix.

Sorry for late reply, I was having same problem nearly 2 years now and tried everything, updating drivers, lowering the graphics, installing game to ssd and none of them worked for me.

As I continued to accept my destiny, reading your comment made me look up for solution again. In steam forums, someone suggested disabling dual network connection on Windows 10 or running steam in offline mode can resolve the issue. But it would be pointless for online matches. Another one said running game in a new user fixed the issue.

Im mostly on ethernet + wifi on my gaming laptop and disabling wifi while connected through ethernet seems to be fixed the issue. I didn't played much but before it would happen frequently even on training mode. I hope it did fix my problem and if it really did, well I suffered for nothing.
 

Zombegoast

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,243


I did end up getting matches with slowdown but buttons presses are still responsive. That's how Rollback netcode usually works when that happens
 

Sabercrusader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,207
I know it won't happen, but I would love for Championship Edition to patch a proper netcode fix in. I picked up SFV at launch, played and mostly enjoyed it, but dropped it. Since I never got any of the DLC, I was planning on picking up Championship Edition (Along with some friends), and take the time to see what all has changed in the years since I've played.
 

Smoshow

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,632
I doubt they could get anything out that fast. But if they did let's hope it's the big fix for everyone
 

FluxWaveZ

Persona Central
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
10,895
Indeed. You expect Capcom to be fast enough with SFV to address it this quickly only a week after something big impacted their game? Lol, we know better.
 

Sixfortyfive

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,615
Atlanta
What's the over/under on them not fixing anything and banning the pc fix?
The most Capcom outcome would be that this maintenance is for something completely unrelated and doesn't touch the netcode mod at all.

But if it does affect the mod, I'd expect that the only thing it would do would be to enforce file integrity for the modified files (e.g. ban the mod). I don't expect this quick of a turnaround to do anything more complex than that.
 

Zombegoast

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
14,243
You sure that video isn't from when MKX was using delay netcode? Because that looks like delay-based netcode 100%.


That literally slowed down to the point where it froze for a couple seconds. There are no inputs being communicated there.

That was MKXL on PC like from two years ago. When I experience like in a delay based netcode like T7, I can feel how sluggish the game is that I can't do simple punish.

It's not like Skullgirls where you can adjust the input delay to be at 9 for smoother visual but noticeable input latency.


Here it's slowdown but input still being responsive
 

Kaguya

Member
Jun 19, 2018
6,412
That was MKXL on PC like from two years ago. When I experience like in a delay based netcode like T7, I can feel how sluggish the game is that I can't do simple punish.

It's not like Skullgirls where you can adjust the input delay to be at 9 for smoother visual but noticeable input latency.


Here it's slowdown but input still being responsive
There's no slow down with responsive inputs, either:
- the input buffer slows down alongside the game thus accepting multiple inputs in the same frame thinking you pressed the whole sequence at once(something like QCF would counts as a single DF for example)
- or only the graphic is slowing down while the input buffer is stable, in which case some inputs gets dropped because the input buffer have more info than it can play

Even in games running locally, slowdowns misses with inputs, let alone online games.
 

Sixfortyfive

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,615
Atlanta
I don't mean the equivalent, I mean I played on 300ish ping smoothly on 6-7 for GGPO so 9 sounds unnecessary unless you're playing some serious latency?
Oh yeah, for sure.

The rule of thumb for rollback delay settings is that it should be set to roughly half of your ping: a delay setting of 9 frames would be meant to account for a connection with an 18-frame (300 ms) ping, give or take a little bit.
 

jett

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,672
In my opinion this netcode "fix" is a wash at best. Great if you test it out and it works with some of your buddies. But frankly it behaves as inconsistently as the default netcode. I've had good and shit matches with both PC (both of us on the mod or only one of us on it) and (surprisingly) PS4 users. The only time I tested it on casuals (for science!) I faced against two PS4 players where the match was just a slomofest on my end for some reason, and I can only imagine what the hell they were seeing. Both of them declined a rematch immediately lol. Thankfully it seems only a small minority are using it since I've been matchmaking without it and my matches against PC users (who might presumably could be using the mod) have been mostly nothing out of the ordinary (I've had some suspect 5-bar connections tho...). And I'm getting a healthy amount of PS4 players too, so it doesn't seem like it has really split up the playerbase so far. I guess in the end most people don't know or just aren't into installing nebulous random files on their PC folders.

The only potentially positive outcome of this thing is that it somehow makes Capcom improve the netcode on their own, but I'll tell ya that personally I'm not interested in trading rollback artifacts for variable input delay or an underwater feel to my controls, where even on "good" matches my controls feel distinctly different from normal with the mod on. The one time it felt "offline" was when I tested the thing against Joe2187 's PS4 account, where he ended up getting 100% of the rollbacks.