Street Fighter's Queer Stereotypes Kept Me In The Closet

[valuv]

https://kotaku.com/street-fighters-queer-stereotypes-kept-me-in-the-closet-1835944948

Juri was just so sexual. She was not only attracted to both men and women, she had to tell everybody about it, against their consent. She had a seemingly uncontrollable sex drive that was depicted as tied to her love of inflicting pain on others. She wore a tiny handkerchief over her boobs without a bra underneath—just like a bisexual, right? It made me feel disgusted, not with Juri, but with myself.

Click to shrink...

As someone who plays Street Fighter a lot, and acknowledges that the character designs definitely have problems I gotta be honest that this wasn't an effect I'd thought about. Has anyone else felt similar issues from the game? I find the impact of something so seemingly minor to being life-altering to be really interesting.

 

[Aine]

The "depraved bisexual" is an age-old stereotype in fiction, and one that a lot of works continue to struggle with. Even worse that people continue to lean in on this in real life and chase after bi people (bi women especially) for threesomes and stuff.

 

[Dullahan]

As someone who loves, and mains Juri, I never really gave thought about how she came off. She's basically one of the few canonical bisexual characters in a fighting game but yeah, that article gave me a lot of food for thought. It's scary sometimes how little we think of others, and how they perceive the things we find "fun", without realizing how it can affect another like this young lady.

 

[Deleted member 36578]

I never viewed Juri in this manner but I guess I wasn't paying close enough attention. I always saw her as just a new baddie for the franchise but never thought about her sexuality in such a way. The twisted femme fatale is a trope in a lot of media.

 

[KillLaCam]

Juri is my favorite street fighter character and I've never thought about her sexuality before this , just thought she was a sadist. I wonder what other game characters are like that but most ppl don't even realize

 

[The Fabled Englishman]

I guess this is a common trope applied to bisexual people - frequently within the queer community itself, funnily enough. I don't particularly see Juri as bi-coded though.

I think the trope that weirds me out more is the blank-slate bi character characteristic of Bioware games.

 

[Deleted member 35077]

Wait, did she really flirted with everyone in SF4 and 5? I need to recheck victory and intro quotes because I don't remember that.

 

[Neoxon]

As much as some characters in Street Fighter are starting to move away from the stereotypes that inspired their existence in the first place, more can certainly be done to set these characters apart from them in a way that'll make the game more welcoming to people from all walks of life. Ready Maddy's account of how Juri's portrayal negatively impacted her only cemented that thought. I'm glad that she was able to overcome it, but Capcom needs to take this into serious consideration going into Street Fighter VI (especially since they're positioning Street Fighter as a major esport).

 

[galvenize]

Wait, did she really flirted with everyone in SF4 and 5? I need to recheck victory and intro quotes because I don't remember that.

Click to shrink...

I guess her ultra in SF4 counts as flirting.

 

[battleborn27]

All of Street Fighter's stereotypes are pretty offensive and terrible tbh

 

[RM8]

And one of her concept designs was a no nonsense taekwondo fighter wearing actual taekwondo gear. Sigh. There's just not enough waifu potential in such a design, I guess.

 

[Mesoian]

I actually expected this to be about Poison.

Huh.

 

[Pompadour]

I do remember when SSF4 wasn't out yet the Japanese website had one of her likes as "big boobs". Now I don't know if that makes her gay or bi but that did exist before it eventually got scrubbed away.

 

[Raspyberry]

Ryu and Ken flirting? Really? I had never got that at all. That seems like the author might be in another reality.

 

[Aine]

I do remember when SSF4 wasn't out yet the Japanese website had one of her likes as "big boobs". Now I don't know if that makes her gay or bi but that did exist before it eventually got scrubbed away.

Click to shrink...

Capcom has been super weird about Juri, where it was all but outright stated that she was bi early on and then it got hastily buried into wink-nudge subtext.

 

[Mesoian]

Ryu and Ken flirting? Really? I had never got that at all. That seems like the author might be in another reality.

Click to shrink...

I mean, the bromance between Ryu and Ken is WELL documented.

But she says in the article that it's likely platonic, and I'd add that the difference between romantic and platonic love can often be hard to parse in Japanese media, especially in young fiction (see Kingdom Hearts).

 

[MylesJackWasntDown]

Unpopular opinion: this is a bit overdramatic.

The devs made a good faith effort, but this isn't Transparent, it's a karate game.

God forbid STREET FIGHTER, a video game built on questionable stereotypes, fail to live up to one person's deeply personal sexual ideologies.

The world largely recognizes its sins of the past and is trying to make progress.

Not sure nitpicking every attempt to be inclusive is the right approach.

If a single cartoonish karate game keeps someone in the closet, they could probably stand to expand and diversy what they're taking influence from.

No one's ever going to be perfect, but I admire the games that try.

Particularly when the alternative is to be so afraid of articles like this that you don't even make the attempt in the first place.

 

[Rickenslacker]

And one of her concept designs was a no nonsense taekwondo fighter wearing actual taekwondo gear. Sigh. There's just not enough waifu potential in such a design, I guess.

Click to shrink...

Yeah, I absolutely despise Juri as she currently exists and roll my eyes and lament at her popularity over being such pandery trash. That concept you're referring to was so damn good.

 

[Cactuar]

Street Fighter is my favorite fighting series and has been since 1991. That said, I'd be lying if I said Street Fighter is the most socially sensitive game ever made.

 

[Deleted member 17952]

I mean, the bromance between Ryu and Ken is WELL documented.

But she says in the article that it's likely platonic, and I'd add that the difference between romantic and platonic love can often be hard to parse in Japanese media, especially in young fiction (see Kingdom Hearts).

Click to shrink...

Or sometimes people just really like to project. (strictly speaking about the Ken-Ryu thing here, and not the rest of the article)

 

[Trisc]

All of Street Fighter's stereotypes are pretty offensive and terrible tbh

Click to shrink...

Remember Chun-Li's victory lines against Poison in SFxT? Historically, Capcom's pretty bad about queer rep.

 

[StayHandsome]

I think there's no question that Juri's design can have an unwanted negative affect on other people. There's nothing invalid about the writer's opinion, and I feel bad that they feel that way.

The question then becomes: assuming that other people enjoy this character archetype, does it become necessary to stop leaning on titilating designs like Juri's in order to reduce discomfort among people like the writer? Is it past the line where people can confidently declare that the harm outweighs the enjoyment? I'm not really attached to Juri, as a character, but I think there's probably a good number of fans who enjoy her sexual nature.

 

[UshiromiyaEva]

Honestly was expecting the thread to be about Poison. I remember them being on both the "Men" and "Women" of Capcom promo pics in the same year as some corny joke

 

[Deleted member 1055]

Juri was just so sexual. She was not only attracted to both men and women, she had to tell everybody about it, against their consent. She had a seemingly uncontrollable sex drive that was depicted as tied to her love of inflicting pain on others. She wore a tiny handkerchief over her boobs without a bra underneath—just like a bisexual, right? It made me feel disgusted, not with Juri, but with myself.

Click to shrink...

That "handkerchief" is a dudou or yếm (as Juri is Korean), a piece of traditional underwear.

 

[Poised Turtoise]

The "depraved bisexual" is an age-old stereotype in fiction, and one that a lot of works continue to struggle with. Even worse that people continue to lean in on this in real life and chase after bi people (bi women especially) for threesomes and stuff.

Click to shrink...

bro I've been trying to explain to my friend that bisexual does not mean those women are down for a fuckin threesome and he just he's definitely gonna get punched -_-

 

[CrocodileGrin]

I guess I wasn't paying attention to her sexuality and never thought about her being bi. I just assumed she had a masochistic personality of being excited while beating people up. As others stated, I was expecting this to be about Poison.

 

[Khanimus]

Unpopular opinion: this is a bit overdramatic.

The devs made a good faith effort, but this isn't Transparent, it's a karate game.

God forbid STREET FIGHTER, a video game built on questionable stereotypes, fail to live up to one person's deeply personal sexual ideologies.

The world largely recognizes its sins of the past and is trying to make progress.

Not sure nitpicking every attempt to be inclusive is the right approach.

If a single cartoonish karate game keeps someone in the closet, they could probably stand to expand and diversy what they're taking influence from.

No one's ever going to be perfect, but I admire the games that try.

Particularly when the alternative is to be so afraid of articles like this that you don't even make the attempt in the first place.

Click to shrink...

You are giving way too much credit to people (let alone fucking gamers) if you think they're "largely recognizing" past mistakes.

And secondly, if people are going to try, they have to actually fucking try. Capcom, and many devs, aren't. This is them leaning into some shit rather than having a conversation with anyone who it might affect. They don't get a gold star for not doing their homework.

 

[Nerokis]

Ryu and Ken flirting? Really? I had never got that at all. That seems like the author might be in another reality.

Click to shrink...

queer readings of media are a thing, and for good reason. in this case, the tutorial is much more fun after picking up on the various innuendos, finding spaces where SFV is conducive to that sort of reading helps to mitigate the less fun stuff, and these are less-than-fleshed-out characters that beg for a good imagination to fill in the blanks

also, the author concedes Capcom probably didn't intend for Ken and Ryu to be read as flirting:

I don't think Capcom intends for Ryu and Ken to come across as lovers in this tutorial. If anything, the sexual tinge to the writing indicates the extent to which Capcom doesn't think anyone would assume this. This scene doesn't read as queer-baiting or homophobic mockery as much as a Tobias Fünke-esque series of unintended but undeniably homoerotic innuendos.

I don't want Ken and Ryu to flirt by accident. I want them to do it on purpose. But since they won't, I'll have to settle for the mistaken date the tutorial offers. I admit, it's nice to see them happy for once.

Click to shrink...

overall, it has to be said that your dismissive "lol what reality are you living in" remark represents a failure of understanding across the board

 

[JusDoIt]

That "handkerchief" is a dudou or yếm (as Juri is Korean), a piece of traditional underwear.

Click to shrink...

Think about what you just said and try to understand the actual complaint.

She's wearing underwear to a fight.

 

[DeadeyeNull]

I like juri's personality because it supposed to contrast Chun li's. They both had family that was killed by bison and whereas Chun li in turn fought crime, juri contributed to it. I never thought of juri's flirting as even being genuine, more that she's playing mind games with whoever she's fighting.

I think the general lack of LGBT representation in street fighter as being the real problem. They could have confirmed one of newcomers like Rashid as gay, or a classic character like Karin. they could have even just brought back eagle, I think he's the only gay character in the series.

 

[Randam]

Can you stop copying titles from articles?

Sounds like you were the one that felt so, OP.

 

[Deleted member 1055]

Think about what you just said and try to understand the actual complaint.

She's wearing underwear to a fight.

Click to shrink...

Young Maddy Myers can be forgiven for the equivalent of calling a turban a towel.
But I would have expected better from adult Maddy Myers, especially so in a piece about representation.