Prinz Eugn

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,393
It's totally plausible that the student didn't know. If you're a psycho enough helicopter parent to blow $400k on admissions bribes, there's a pretty good chance that you are also working pretty hard to maintain little Timmy's bubble (that he is a super special sunflower of a human bean). There's a pretty clear motivation for the parents to hide it from him.
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,119
Well yeah, of course they're going to say that. Doesn't make it true, though.

No it doesn't. My point is that people in this thread are assuming he was in on it and he might not have been. If I were a parent, I certainly wouldn't tell me kid. What would that achieve? Sure, if he has to go to practice, then he has to be in on it. But different schools cheated in different ways. If the coach just withdrew the kid without telling him, how could the kid know? Should he be punished in such a situation?
 

mutantmagnet

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,401
I think it would have been worse for them if they suddenly kicked students out without a completed investigation. The university probably should refund a year of tuition and maybe let them keep credits but this shithead suing for millions is showing his hand. A fraud is a fraud to the bone.


Semprevivo offered to withdraw from Georgetown if he could keep his credits for his work there over three years. According to the lawsuit filed in Washington, D.C., federal court, Georgetown's legal counsel told Semprevivo on Tuesday the school would not agree to that deal. The lawsuit seeks an injunction preventing the school from expelling him.


https://www.latimes.com/local/lanow...ollege-admissions-scandal-20190515-story.html



If he was unaware of the bribe and he actually completed his coursework clean he deserves to keep his credits.

Both of these are huge, incredibly unlikely ifs


Semprevivo has a 3.18 grade-point average at Georgetown. He entered the school with an SAT score of 1980 out of 2400 and a high school GPA of 4.067 from Campbell Hall, a private school in Studio City. Both of those statistics were within Georgetown's academic standards at the time of his entry in 2016, the suit notes.

*shrugs*


Yeah, all it would take is for Georgetown to produce the original admissions letter showing that he was being accepted as a tennis recruit, and this lawsuit will be shot to shit.


They don't mention that.

Additionally.

Semprevivo's lawsuit claims that he made a distinction in his transcript that he was a basketball player, making no mention of his involvement in the sport of tennis.

USA Today says that the lawsuit claims, the "application filled out by Singer"(the father) emphasizes tennis credentials. A big takeaway from this characteristic of the case is that the lawsuit alleges Georgetown made no effort to inquire about the "obvious inconsistency."


https://heavy.com/news/2019/05/adam-semprevivo/
 

Chrome Hyena

Member
Oct 30, 2017
8,780
I thinks its bullshit. All the credits he earned up till now werent a sham. He obviously earned them so sure, kick him out. But taking his credits is bullshit and yeah give him his tuition he paid back.
 

Chopchop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,171
"It's your fault you got scammed" made as an official argument.

That's fucking hilarious.

Though in this case, if the student really wasn't aware of his parents' actions, then it makes sense that he shouldn't be punished as harshly for them. But that's hard to work out since he obviously benefited from that bribery.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
94,474
From what I reading his stuff was fluffed with tennis credit, he didn't notice his application had all this tennis accolades on them?
 

meow

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,094
NYC
I think it sounds pretty unlikely that he didn't know what was going on. But if he paid for and earned the class credits, he should get them, IMO.
 

RoninZ

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,769
the kid should not be kicked out. Take it out on the staff who took the bribe. Colleges aren't innocent in this bullshit and taking it out on the student ain't erasing the black eye of the bribe from those colleges, it won't solve anything.
 

jayu26

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,656
"Why should I be punished for a crime that someone didn't notice earlier?"

This is all amazing.
the kid should not be kicked out. Take it out on the staff who took the bribe. Colleges aren't innocent in this bullshit and taking it out on the student ain't erasing the black eye of the bribe from those colleges, it won't solve anything.

I definitely agree with punishing school as well.
 
Oct 27, 2017
43,221
I don't think it's quite as nonsensical as the title makes out. He (allegedly) knew nothing of any wrongdoing, so the lawsuit is probably arguing that Georgetown wasted 3 years of his life he could've spent studying at another university by taking his dad's bribe (without the student's knowledge).
Except he got in as a tennis recruit. At some point he must've been contacted by the tennis program or expected to play tennis.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,686
I think it's possible the college is expelling him to try and protect their own reputation. They're worried people will believe they would have let him graduate if it hadn't been revealed that they were accepting bribes. In other words they were ok with this arrangement until they got caught. It's possible, at least.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,885
Lemme put this into different terms: If I defraud a bank but employees still approve the loan and I pay my mortgage, I still committed fraud, even if the bank or some of its employees were in on it.

The douche parents and kid still stole a spot from a student who wasn't engaged in fraud. This is a crime on the entire student body that played by the rules, or cultivated skills and knowledge enough to get there on merit.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,536
Lemme put this into different terms: If I defraud a bank but employees still approve the loan and I pay my mortgage, I still committed fraud, even if the bank or some of its employees were in on it.

The douche parents and kid still stole a spot from a student who wasn't engaged in fraud. This is a crime on the entire student body that played by the rules, or cultivated skills and knowledge enough to get there on merit.

That's a weird analogy. And I'm not saying it because it doesn't make sense, but the mortgage industry just went through a crisis where people lied on their mortgage applications about income/how much they could afford, and the banks were in on it, and I'm still not sure anyone got "punished" for it.

I agree that they need to expel him, even if his grades were up to snuff he got in on fraudulent grounds. I'm not so sure about the credits, that's years and years of stuff that's wiped out that he paid for and took the courses, especially if he had no knowledge of it.

The point I made earlier about him earning the grades isn't talking about his GPA, it's the suspicion that if you cheat to get into the school how can I trust that you didn't bribe the teachers/cheat on tests? Maybe unlikely, because getting into a school isn't as hard as maintaining grades once in, but I would think even that "hard work" is suspect.
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,686
Lemme put this into different terms: If I defraud a bank but employees still approve the loan and I pay my mortgage, I still committed fraud, even if the bank or some of its employees were in on it.

The douche parents and kid still stole a spot from a student who wasn't engaged in fraud. This is a crime on the entire student body that played by the rules, or cultivated skills and knowledge enough to get there on merit.
Your analogy makes no sense. The question at hand is to what degree was the student involved with the actions of the parent?
 

Parch

Member
Nov 6, 2017
7,980
I think it sounds pretty unlikely that he didn't know what was going on.
I think it's highly unlikely the kid didn't know it was fraud. He just wasn't going to question a good thing.

If a father buys his kid a Porsche with stolen money, should the kid be allowed to keep the Porsche because he didn't know it was stolen money?

This lawsuit is nonsense. Entitled kid should be happy he's not being implicated for the fraud as well as his father.
 
Nov 9, 2017
3,777
Georgetown takes a bribe from this students family and creates a fake profile for him in exchange for the bribe.
Georgetown allows this to go on for several years despite reports against employee who set this up.
Once scandal is revealed and Georgetown is discovered to have taken bribes, they begin action against the student.
Once student files lawsuit against Georgetown for not being able to transfer credits, he is expelled
Georgetown then gets to keep the bribe, tuition, and not be punished for accepting the bribe in the first place.

Not stanning for the student or his family since it is pretty apparent they did wrong here and that he was aware, but Georgetown does not seem to come out looking good in this situation either.
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,465
Georgetown takes a bribe from this students family and creates a fake profile for him in exchange for the bribe.
Georgetown allows this to go on for several years despite reports against employee who set this up.
Once scandal is revealed and Georgetown is discovered to have taken bribes, they begin action against the student.
Once student files lawsuit against Georgetown for not being able to transfer credits, he is expelled
Georgetown then gets to keep the bribe, tuition, and not be punished for accepting the bribe in the first place.

Not stanning for the student or his family since it is pretty apparent they did wrong here and that he was aware, but Georgetown does not seem to come out looking good in this situation either.

From my understanding, only the tennis coach accepted the bribes. The school itself didn't receive any money aside from the tuition payments. It's still pretty bad if the school was aware of the coach's foul play though.

But I agree, no one looks good in any of this.
 

bic

Member
Oct 28, 2017
432
So people are expected to believe he was given a sports scholarship that he never showed up to practice for, but he didn't know it was a scam?

GTFOH with this attempt at 'evenhandedness' for the spawn of cheating rich fucks.

Pro-Tip: No matter how much you grovel and equivocate, you'll never be part of the club

There's no mention that he received a sports scholarship, as far as I can tell. IMO, not enough is known from what's been reported to condemn the kid. He met the requirements for admission to Georgetown, and assuming he did all his HS work honestly, and didn't know about his tennis recruit status, I'd still be fine with his expulsion, but let him keep the credits so three years of his life aren't wasted at no fault of his own. That's assuming a lot, though, just as you're doing.

But I must want to be part of the rich person "club". LOL that's some really stupid shit, congrats.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,885
That's a weird analogy. And I'm not saying it because it doesn't make sense, but the mortgage industry just went through a crisis where people lied on their mortgage applications about income/how much they could afford, and the banks were in on it, and I'm still not sure anyone got "punished" for it.

I agree that they need to expel him, even if his grades were up to snuff he got in on fraudulent grounds. I'm not so sure about the credits, that's years and years of stuff that's wiped out that he paid for and took the courses, especially if he had no knowledge of it.

The point I made earlier about him earning the grades isn't talking about his GPA, it's the suspicion that if you cheat to get into the school how can I trust that you didn't bribe the teachers/cheat on tests? Maybe unlikely, because getting into a school isn't as hard as maintaining grades once in, but I would think even that "hard work" is suspect.
Your analogy makes no sense. The question at hand is to what degree was the student involved with the actions of the parent?

If I defraud the bank, my kids don't get to claim that they're owed the mortgage paid, or any claims to equity earned while I lived there.

I am ok with giving this douche his credits, but he most certainly should be tarred as a cheat and untrustworthy so that future schools/ employers know who they're accepting.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,536
If I defraud the bank, my kids don't get to claim that they're owed the mortgage paid, or any claims to equity earned while I lived there.

I am ok with giving this douche his credits, but he most certainly should be tarred as a cheat and untrustworthy so that future schools/ employers know who they're accepting.

If you got the mortgage on the house with fraudulent documentation, and dutifully kept up payments, I don't think they take the house away from you and tell you they're keeping all your payments, do they?

I agree with the second part, though. Expel him, put that mark on his record, but let him keep the earned credits (after some due diligence to make sure he didn't commit any other fraud).
 

I Don't Like

Member
Dec 11, 2017
15,050
Right, but the tennis coach was part of the bribery scandal. So if those tennis team welcome materials "got lost in the mail," and the school has no record of them, then maybe this kid has a point?

That's true but then, what, the tennis coach hid it from the school that the kid was going to be admitted as an athlete? Or he told them but nothing sent to the kid made it apparent that he was coming as one? I mean I guess that's possible but you're right that he can always deny that he received any material that would have tipped him off.
 
Nov 9, 2017
3,777
I mean the tennis coach is a school employee acting on behalf of the school. Does the chancellor himself need to accept the bribe for it to be partially the schools fault for soliciting bribes in the first place?
 

olubode

Member
Oct 28, 2017
1,967
ITT people are getting scammed by the scammer who has a full time PR person/team working with journalists in an effort to muddy the scammers scam into sympathetic feelings.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,885
If you got the mortgage on the house with fraudulent documentation, and dutifully kept up payments, I don't think they take the house away from you and tell you they're keeping all your payments, do they?

Why wouldn't the bank take it back? They were defrauded and they hold title on the home. It's very much in their best interest to repossess the house or call the full value of the loan, try to resell it and keep the mortgage/ interest already paid.
 

entrydenied

The Fallen
Oct 26, 2017
7,773
From my understanding, only the tennis coach accepted the bribes. The school itself didn't receive any money aside from the tuition payments. It's still pretty bad if the school was aware of the coach's foul play though.

But I agree, no one looks good in any of this.

If it were the tennis coach who is taking bribes then it makes sense that he wasn't contacted to join.

In some older article about the scandel with the 2 actresses, there were details on how most of the children didn't know that their parents did all these shenanigans to get them in. Part of the arrangements included getting the children to take fake tests so that they didn't know their parents sent impersonaters to take the tests on their behalf. One account was hilarious as the girl actually aimed for higher scores and told her mum she would tske the tests again if she didn't hit her goal. The mother also told the collaborator that this daughter is smart, unlike her older one, and might figure out the scam.

There was also another guy who thought it was weird that the university advisor mentioned that he got in through some sports, even though he didn't play any in high school.

These scams usually don't involve scholarships because the parents actually have money. They just want to make sure the kids get into the schools that the parents want. It's parents using their children and showing them off as tropies.
 

PoppaBK

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,165
I am interested in knowing how these colleges failed to miss a whole bunch of promising atheletes who completely failed to participate in there supposed sport. You would think they would want to know what happened.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,536
I am interested in knowing how these colleges failed to miss a whole bunch of promising atheletes who completely failed to participate in there supposed sport. You would think they would want to know what happened.

I mentioned it earlier but apparently it happens all the time: some athlete getting into the school of his choice because he does track, then not joining the team and studying instead. As long as they're not taking up an athletic scholarship I can see how this can fly under the radar.
 
OP
OP

Deleted member 9100

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,076
I am interested in knowing how these colleges failed to miss a whole bunch of promising atheletes who completely failed to participate in there supposed sport. You would think they would want to know what happened.

Lack of oversight. If the students had been on a scholarship for these sports or a more visible sport, such as basketball or football, I'm sure they would have been caught.

Which is why sports like rowing and tennis were chosen.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,791
Does the age of the kids not factor anywhere into the decision of how accountable they are in this? I mean both the parents as well as elements inside the college were conspiring together to give them preferential treatment.

As a teacher I know quite a lot of 17-18 year olds who would be too immature to go against their parents or the college in such a case and would worry only about covering their own asses in the short term.

If 13 year old black kids can get tried as adults and sent to jail for life, 17-18 year old rich white kids are not too young to be held accountable for this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,791
If he is saying the true, he totally has a point.



Both of those things are wrong, clearly the first is a more serious issue. I can't see your point.

Both those things aren't wrong. We know for a fact that they bribed their way into the schools. The young adults say they are totally innocent though so we should take them for their word. Totally. Poor kids. They aren't even being criminally charged. Some accountability would be nice though.
 

mrmoose

Member
Nov 13, 2017
21,536
18 year olds are adults. You can join the military, get a gun and make life/death determinations.

There is nothing wrong with holding these kids accountable.

Also, what's more likely, these kids had no idea about this scam, or their parents are trying to protect them?

I know this is apples and oranges, but didn't we just have a huge thread about how 17/18 year olds should have their college debts forgiven because they can't be asked to take responsibility for applying for loans and having to pay them off? I mean, we're not talking about how old he is now, we're talking about how old he was when he applied for college, right?

So let's make the assumption for the moment that they didn't know anything, do you still advocate taking away their credits and keeping the money?
 
Oct 25, 2017
1,465
I mean the tennis coach is a school employee acting on behalf of the school. Does the chancellor himself need to accept the bribe for it to be partially the schools fault for soliciting bribes in the first place?

I don't understand your point. Unless the tennis coach passed along the bribes to other people within the university to grant this kid admission, the coach was solely responsible. All the school did was accept the kid based on this coach's "recruitment" and approval. Unless there's evidence otherwise, the only thing the school is guilty of is unwittingly hiring a criminal and getting duped by that criminal.

I am interested in knowing how these colleges failed to miss a whole bunch of promising atheletes who completely failed to participate in there supposed sport. You would think they would want to know what happened.

Well if it's the person in charge of an athletic program who oversees the participation of student recruits, and that person is in on the bribery/fraud, then I can see how the school may not have known. So yeah, it's likely a lack of oversight.

Mind you, that doesn't make the school look any better.
 

Butch

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,446
Both those things aren't wrong. We know for a fact that they bribed their way into the schools. The young adults say they are totally innocent though so we should take them for their word. Totally. Poor kids. They aren't even being criminally charged. Some accountability would be nice though.

We know for a fact his dad did, we still don't know if he knew about it. Even with all our assumptions the kid still deserves a chance to defend himself if he wants to. That's how I see it.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,791
I know this is apples and oranges, but didn't we just have a huge thread about how 17/18 year olds should have their college debts forgiven because they can't be asked to take responsibility for applying for loans and having to pay them off? I mean, we're not talking about how old he is now, we're talking about how old he was when he applied for college, right?

Student loans are a different issue. I don't agree that student loans should be forgiven because students can't take responsibility. I think student loans should be forgiven because the system is fucked up, school prices are way too high, and you are forced to be in debt for a long time in order to have a career, or not have the debt and potentially end up with shit jobs due to not going to school. Going to university doesn't even guarantee a good job either, but this is a longer debate that has nothing to do with the ability of 17-18 year old to take responsibility.

So let's make the assumption for the moment that they didn't know anything, do you still advocate taking away their credits and keeping the money?

Why should we make that assumption? We know for a fact that he was bribed into acceptance. At this point, I think he needs to prove he had no involvement and didn't know after the fact either. In fact, I think the school should also scrutinize his grades more closely and make sure they were legitimately earned. Especially considering we know rich kids pay people to take their tests/write papers and even take standardized tests for them. there was a recent thread on the rampant cheating from rich Chinese students studying in the US. I'm sure they aren't the only ones to do this.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,791
We know for a fact his dad did, we still don't know if he knew about it. Even with all our assumptions the kid still deserves a chance to defend himself if he wants to. That's how I see it.


It sounds like Georgetown was investigating just that. Look at the sequence of events and the wording we have here:

Adam, who's maintained a 3.18 grade-point average, offered to "resolve the matter" in an April 15 letter if Georgetown agreed to allow him to withdraw with no black marks on his transcript and transfer his full credits to a new school, the complaint said.

But the university sent him a letter Tuesday saying he was prohibited from withdrawing, prompting him to sue.

Adam wanted to "resolve the matter" by leaving the school with his full credits and no black marks. The school sent him a letter back saying that they will not allow him to withdraw. He then sues, then they expelled him.

So the school did not expel him initially and did not want him to withdraw. So what specific matter was he wanting to resolve? Likely the school was investigating his involvement and knowledge of the events but he was trying to circumvent all that by leaving scott free.