Ta-Nehisi Coates Asked about the "N Word"
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I like this view:
https://www.npr.org/sections/codesw...o-can-use-the-n-word-thats-the-wrong-question
Like, if your non-black friend uses the n-word around you and you're fine with it because of your camraderie, it's fine. But, that non-black person should not turn that around and apply it universally in a public setting.
Context is key.
https://www.npr.org/sections/codesw...o-can-use-the-n-word-thats-the-wrong-question
Like, if your non-black friend uses the n-word around you and you're fine with it because of your camraderie, it's fine. But, that non-black person should not turn that around and apply it universally in a public setting.
Context is key.
Wasn't it more along the lines of asking how to talk to her friends about it?
Yep. And that way of answering this type of question is more deliberate than it might seem:
"By then the title "public intellectual" had been attached to me, and I saw that what came with it was not just the air of the dilettante but the air of the solutionist. The black public intellectual need not be wise, but he had better have answers. There were dissenters in the tradition. There was Derrick Bell, for instance. But mostly I felt the expectation that if I was writing or talking about problems, I should also be able to identify an immediately actionable way out—preferably one that could garner a sixty-vote majority in the Senate. There was a kind of insanity to this—like telling doctors to only diagnose that which they could immediately and effortlessly cure. But that was the job of the black public intellectual—not to stimulate, not to ask the questions that kept them up at night, not even just to interpret the drums but to interpret them in some way that promised redemption. This was not work for writers and scholars, who thrive in privacy and study, but performance-prophets who live for the roar of the crowd."
(We Were Eight Years in Power, Ta-Nehisi Coates)
I assume she was nervous and ended up rambling. They likely talked about reparations in the full talk since his new book has a chapter on it.
Differing interpersonal contexts when using words that refer to individuals is something that everyone inherently understands and it's what I've used to explain to people why the n-word is contentious in white people's mouths. After a certain point though, it becomes clear that people likely just don't care about that.
in the 90s and early 2000s every single one of my friends that listened to rap and weren't black used to sing along to rap songs in it's entirety. it was even common language for white kids to say it with the A at the end all the time. I was never a fan of it and i always thought it weird, but they did it and no one ever batted an eye.
i also don't recall many rap acts at that time caring either but then again i never paid much attention to the hip hop/rap scene during my youth.
i also don't recall many rap acts at that time caring either but then again i never paid much attention to the hip hop/rap scene during my youth.
I don't like the word nor do I use it.
But my friends know that I won't take offense if they're rapping along. Of course, everyone has their own level of sensitivity around the word.
I used to get on all my white friends way back when for using it, those that didn't stop aren't around anymore. Bye bye.
That said, I won't be getting on my non-black PoC friends for it, as I'm white and have no rights to define who else can't say it, but it did always seem odd that some people feel like they could.
He didn't really address the question through anything other than implication, and the implication is something I don't think many in this thread would agree with?
By making comparisons to "bitch", he notably didn't say "The B Word" or anything. He simply said he had no desire to say it outside of the context of talking about the word itself and quoting his wife. The "N word" is treated differently as it is objected to even in the form of quotation or talking about the word, and not addressing that difference misses the initial point entirely. It is most definitely not the same as bitch or honey, hell me writing "The B Word" is goofy as shit and we all know that's because we judge these words differently. The nature of it in the context of quotation (as in a song) was at the heart of the initial question, even if his overall sentiment was agreeable and reasonable.
By making comparisons to "bitch", he notably didn't say "The B Word" or anything. He simply said he had no desire to say it outside of the context of talking about the word itself and quoting his wife. The "N word" is treated differently as it is objected to even in the form of quotation or talking about the word, and not addressing that difference misses the initial point entirely. It is most definitely not the same as bitch or honey, hell me writing "The B Word" is goofy as shit and we all know that's because we judge these words differently. The nature of it in the context of quotation (as in a song) was at the heart of the initial question, even if his overall sentiment was agreeable and reasonable.
She asked how to talk to her friends about it. He provided multiple analogies, explained them and offered insight into how white privilege shows itself in this particular area.
Like, he didn't say "tell them this" but he fully answered the question. He doesn't need to give her step-by-step instructions. It's an audience of adults.
It can be either depending on the context and who you say it to.
You can't call everybody "baby" at work because thats sexual harassment.
You can call your S/O "baby" at home because they're your S/O.
He was making a simple comparison to illustrate a point. He never said the words "Bitch" or "Honey" were literally the same as the n-word. He made the comparison to express that the meaning and impact of words change based on the context and the relationships between the individuals using them. He has a relationship with his wife and because of it it is okay for her to call him honey where as it is not okay for me to do so cause we lack that relationship. This rule extends to the n-word.
I agree with him on the fact that it's dependent on context, and I enjoyed the analogies. Having said that, if two parties (regardless of ethnic background) have agreed that using the word nigga in each other's company is ok, that's entirely their prerogative. It's a word that one shouldn't use in reference to a mere acquaintance or stranger, obviously. Rapport must be built, intimacy must be established, but after that, fair play is fair play. I regularly call one of my best friends a cunt, a word I'd never use to refer to a random passerby in the street. It's part of our rapport, however, and unaffected people outside of our circle don't really get a say in that.
His point was that the same reasoning that applies to willingly forgoing using terms that are generally negative or overly intimate but can be used within certain relationships should not suddenly become invalid when talking about "nigga" but that (in general) white people have trouble reconciling that. He was pretty blunt
The emphasis on context specifically establishes that the same words change meaning and intent depending upon the relationship between the speakers using them, hence his numerous analogies. He then elaborates on the fact that there is a relationship between white and black people wherein white people are in a position of power over black people ("they think they're entitled to everything"), thus the n-word will always be contentious coming out of their mouths until that relationship changes to one of equivalence. It's the reason the white girl already knows she can't get away with saying it.
Well yeah, but all that illustrates is that you shouldnt use the word on your own in casual conversation. The initial question was referring to people that use the word within the context of quoting another individual, which is something that went unadressed and, notably, is something that very much sets it apart from the words he used in comparison. Again, even though he said the relationships were not there for him to use honey and bitch, he still said the words during this discussion and when quoting his wife, which is what makes using those words as examples less than optimal for addressing the initial question.
The point didn't go unaddressed. The point is inherent in the basic question "Why do white people understand that words are contextually dependent upon the relationship between speakers, but suddenly forget this when it comes to the n-word (in all contexts)?" The reason the n-word is contentious is because white people insist they have "a right" to use it, even though this same argument wouldn't be used in similar contexts when referring to other out groups, which all boils down to racism. It's not a 1:1 direct comparison, but it doesn't need to be to work. It's there to illustrate the ultimate point that it's not socially wise for white people to quote the word in music because of the relationship they have with black people, and his answer for what the girl should say to her friends next time is his general examples.
Same. I grew up in NYC. I have a black Dominican/ American black father and a Bahamian/ America mother. I grew up with plenty of Dominican and Puerto Rican friends that say nigga daily. It's something I've never thought of as a problem as far as other minorities goes. Any other minorities though, and we have a HUGE problem. It's a weird dichotomy. I refer to the old Blackish bit though.
EDIT: then again, it also may be an issue as to where you grew up in NY. I knew a few Chinese and Mexicans that let it fly, but somehow I feel like they had the same experiences I did. Damn shit may be a regional thing. No consistency.
I don't agree with you final assertions. You don't have to use a 1 to 1 comparison for your analogy to make sense. Either way you walked away understanding what was meant there. Are attempting to call him a hypocrite because he said the word Bitch but then said he has no compulsion to say the word? I feel that's an odd thing to take umbrage with if so.
I think he addressed the question fine. The person was asking for the language to explain to their friends that they shouldn't use the word and it's never okay to whether you quoting a line in a movie or singing a song. He provided her with that language
As eloquent as I'd expect from Coates. Coates has to be one of my favourite modern writers.
It's interesting, though, considering so many hip-hop MCs are fine with their fans using the word when they're singing along to their songs (and that's somewhat unsurprising). From the last little bit it doesn't seem like Coates accounted for this in his conclusion, or the unique context of entertainment.
It's interesting, though, considering so many hip-hop MCs are fine with their fans using the word when they're singing along to their songs (and that's somewhat unsurprising). From the last little bit it doesn't seem like Coates accounted for this in his conclusion, or the unique context of entertainment.
I'm not calling him a hypocrite. I just think that not addressing the word's very unique relationship with quotation (relative to the other words) and saying "It's all contextual" is leaving out an important part of the conversation. It's fine to say "bitch" when quoting or in a good faith discussion of the word. There is no "B Word". Whereas this word is entirely unique in that there is no appropriate context for its use, and that's an important distinction that needs to be made, because otherwise one could come away from this conversation thinking it can only be used in appropriate contexts.
Holy shit that last part was mind blowing. He basically said that white people should try not to use the n-word when singing along a song just to see a tiny bit what it means to be black; that black people go through life seeing white people do things that they cannot do becuase they are black.
Man I love reading/hearing this man. He makes so much fucking sense. And I just discovered he has a new book out.
Thanks for sharing op, odds are I probably would have missed this video.
Man I love reading/hearing this man. He makes so much fucking sense. And I just discovered he has a new book out.
Thanks for sharing op, odds are I probably would have missed this video.
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Lack of consistency is why it makes it difficult to apply universal blanket rules to vocabulary. The best anyone can ever do is consider the context and never expose anyone to language that they are not comfortable hearing or being referred to as.
Two black people interacting does not mean one would be assumed comfortable being called the n-word.
Two gay people interacting does not mean one would be assumed comfortable being called the f-word.
And so on and so forth.
Yeah, she overcorrected a bit there, but in fairness, I'd be tripping up saying awkward shit and mumbling to someone as big as him.
That man is personified wisdom. Love him.
I had discussions about this on the other forum because of a specific case in my life, where someone who happens to be black called me the N-word on a regular basis even though I'm not, due to a long friendship and I always called him like that as well for almost a decade. I'd never use it outside that specific context though for obvious reasons.
I had discussions about this on the other forum because of a specific case in my life, where someone who happens to be black called me the N-word on a regular basis even though I'm not, due to a long friendship and I always called him like that as well for almost a decade. I'd never use it outside that specific context though for obvious reasons.
Well said.
And this is the God to honest truth. Great example of this is black people not being able to be authentic in work spaces and have to pretty much code switch into predominantly white spaces. There are things that I KNOW I cannot do while my white colleagues can for example not show too much emotion or I turn into the angry black guy. There are many examples of this and it makes sense to me wholly on why for that one thing. It should only be for black people.
White people should be able to say nigga when singing along with a song. I kind of feel it's absurd to try and police that, when it's a word a lot of young people hear constantly in the music they listen to. I personally wouldn't have a problem with it, if I heard it.
outside of that of course, it's a big no no, in public anyway. what you say in private between friends, black or otherwise, is your business. I feel like Coates just gave a pretty generic answer to the question. If I was the girl I would of probed a bit harder.
outside of that of course, it's a big no no, in public anyway. what you say in private between friends, black or otherwise, is your business. I feel like Coates just gave a pretty generic answer to the question. If I was the girl I would of probed a bit harder.
I sing along with Rap all the time, but if I am in company or at a show I don't sing along with those verses. I have black friends that will refer to me as it as a greeting but I don't say it back.
Been to shows where KRS or Saul Williams have songs with it in it and they poke at their mostly white audiences to sing along.
Been to shows where KRS or Saul Williams have songs with it in it and they poke at their mostly white audiences to sing along.
I feel like he kind of misses the mark here, in that he spends too much time with tge analogy on calling an actual person something when the issue with say, repeating rap lyrics is merely tge use of the word. He also kind of undermines that angle by drawing "Faggot" and "Bitch" as analogues for him as a straight male in that he used the actual words when referring to them thereby proving it is not the same.
I can accept self censoring as a white person. I recognize that the word has a unique position in our culture and why there is no agreed upon standard for how or if a white person could ever use it. It is a matter of trust and black people collectively do not (Understandably) trust us with it given how it was used as a weapon to dehumanize them.
I can accept self censoring as a white person. I recognize that the word has a unique position in our culture and why there is no agreed upon standard for how or if a white person could ever use it. It is a matter of trust and black people collectively do not (Understandably) trust us with it given how it was used as a weapon to dehumanize them.
That was fantastic.
I've had conversations like this with people around me in real life. I don't get why they even have a DESIRE to use it. I don't get why it's so very hard for them to just NOT SAY THAT WORD. It's not hard for me. Why should it be? I shouldn't say it, and I don't. It's never been hard for me to not say it. I've never felt like a piece of my life experience was missing by not saying it. Similarly, I don't use profanity, and sometimes in real life that shocks people if they find out. They don't understand, or they say, "well, how do you not swear if you stub your toe" or something. It's not hard. The words just don't enter my mind. I have no desire to swear, and I certainly don't have any desire to use a derogatory term like the n-word.
I've had conversations like this with people around me in real life. I don't get why they even have a DESIRE to use it. I don't get why it's so very hard for them to just NOT SAY THAT WORD. It's not hard for me. Why should it be? I shouldn't say it, and I don't. It's never been hard for me to not say it. I've never felt like a piece of my life experience was missing by not saying it. Similarly, I don't use profanity, and sometimes in real life that shocks people if they find out. They don't understand, or they say, "well, how do you not swear if you stub your toe" or something. It's not hard. The words just don't enter my mind. I have no desire to swear, and I certainly don't have any desire to use a derogatory term like the n-word.
Coates response was absolutely on point.
Edit; As a black man, I don't even use the N word either, I don't really have any reason or context where it'd be appropriate to use it.
But it seems like some white folk find it hard to be told they shouldn't use the word and contort themselves to find an example/loop-hole where they can use.
Edit; As a black man, I don't even use the N word either, I don't really have any reason or context where it'd be appropriate to use it.
But it seems like some white folk find it hard to be told they shouldn't use the word and contort themselves to find an example/loop-hole where they can use.
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I don't think it's a good answer to the question. Singing along means repeating the words. What are you supposed to do? Just stop in the middle and stay silent or replace it with "N-word"? That's absurd. Singing along is quoting words.
It's a good answer to using the N-word in situations where you aren't quoting anything.
It's a good answer to using the N-word in situations where you aren't quoting anything.
So if you were singing along to this Guns n Roses song:
You would sing "niggers"?
Just shut your gob for a beat, it's not that fucking difficult.
I always think about this scene from Down to Earth when it comes to the whole singing lyrics with nigga in it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RljxapUgSBw
Ignoring the fact it's a black guy trapped in a white man's body. It's a white guy singing a song he clearly likes with no malice attached behind the words, who gets assaulted for it, now granted the absurdity of the situation plays into this, ie rich white dude in one of the blackest neighborhoods imaginable, but I thought it was a great social commentary because it doesn't really give you an answer but it does stop and make you think, and I remember after the movie arguing with my brother about it for like a good hour about whether it was acceptable, was he really in the wrong, what circumstances would be right in, is it ever right, etc.
My brother is 10 years my senior so he grew up in different circumstances then I did, and I think my environment was softer vs his, but while we both went to prominently black schools, I had more token white kids that ended up at the black high school then he did, and it was almost a 100% certainty that whenever one of those white boys got comfortable enough the n bomb would drop, reactions would always vary from fight level, humor, or indifference. Honestly I never knew what the right answer was to the use of the word when a white person used it the same exact way I used it. Should it have been a blanket reaction of "nope, don't do it," or should we accept these white kids into our circle as allies and friends? Are they just trying to integrate to survive their circumstances, or are they really our friends? Does it not matter because no matter what they're white and they can never understand our circumstances, or do we ignore that and just move forward? Is it an honor that we allow a white person to say nigga as a friend, or is it a abhorrent mockery of our history with white people as African Americans and we should never allow it again under any circumstances.
I've thought about it a lot, and I still really do not have an answer. Maybe it is just easier if we bar them all from saying it? But that still just leaves a bad taste in my mouth for reasons I can't put into words. Meh I feel like I'm talking in circles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RljxapUgSBw
Ignoring the fact it's a black guy trapped in a white man's body. It's a white guy singing a song he clearly likes with no malice attached behind the words, who gets assaulted for it, now granted the absurdity of the situation plays into this, ie rich white dude in one of the blackest neighborhoods imaginable, but I thought it was a great social commentary because it doesn't really give you an answer but it does stop and make you think, and I remember after the movie arguing with my brother about it for like a good hour about whether it was acceptable, was he really in the wrong, what circumstances would be right in, is it ever right, etc.
My brother is 10 years my senior so he grew up in different circumstances then I did, and I think my environment was softer vs his, but while we both went to prominently black schools, I had more token white kids that ended up at the black high school then he did, and it was almost a 100% certainty that whenever one of those white boys got comfortable enough the n bomb would drop, reactions would always vary from fight level, humor, or indifference. Honestly I never knew what the right answer was to the use of the word when a white person used it the same exact way I used it. Should it have been a blanket reaction of "nope, don't do it," or should we accept these white kids into our circle as allies and friends? Are they just trying to integrate to survive their circumstances, or are they really our friends? Does it not matter because no matter what they're white and they can never understand our circumstances, or do we ignore that and just move forward? Is it an honor that we allow a white person to say nigga as a friend, or is it a abhorrent mockery of our history with white people as African Americans and we should never allow it again under any circumstances.
I've thought about it a lot, and I still really do not have an answer. Maybe it is just easier if we bar them all from saying it? But that still just leaves a bad taste in my mouth for reasons I can't put into words. Meh I feel like I'm talking in circles.
Again I do tend to self censor personally, but you're being a bit obtuse here. People want to sing songs they like and crnsoring throws you off. You ever listened to a censored Ying Yang Twins song on Vevo? Singing a song you like is something I feel should be universally understandable. Censoring a word that breaks up huge chunks of a song prevents emersion in the experience.
A lot of people I know, mostly of South Asian descent, say it a lot and call each other that word. I'm also South Asian and have never felt the need or want to say it, because I find it offensive to do so. Even when I sing along songs, I don't say it.
I liked his response and I'll definitely use the honey analogy going forward because it's pretty good.
I liked his response and I'll definitely use the honey analogy going forward because it's pretty good.
