I do love that they actually made it a real book that you could order. (It was blank.)
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I'm so happy to be playing in a game again. I'm having so much fun. I think there's something to this whole "role playing games" thing!
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Tabletop RPG |OT| I cast a spell
- Thread starter Nairume
- Start date
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I'm so happy to be playing in a game again. I'm having so much fun. I think there's something to this whole "role playing games" thing!
Having run it twice now I love it and can't wait to snag the 2nd box that promises a longer campaign.
Has anybody been following the Godsrain Prophecies fiction that they've been posting on paizo.com? They just posted the last one.
If you have no clue what I'm talking about…so, the big new Pathfinder sourcebook this year (besides Player Core 2, which is actually getting the Gen Con release slot) is War of Immortals, which is basically about (wait for it!) a war between the gods, and it seems like they're also going to tie into that story with the next Adventure Path after Q3's Curtain Call, in the same way that some previous Adventure Paths have been clearly designed to pair with previous sourcebooks (Guns & Gears and Outlaws of Alkenstar being perhaps the most obvious). They've also announced that they're doing a tie-in novel as part of this whole god war thing, the first tie-in novel they've done in a while. So it seems like this is all Sort of a Big Deal.
Anyway, the other thing that makes it a Big Deal is that they've announced that one of the gods in the Pathfinder universe is going to die, and not just a minor god, but one of the "core 20" deities. It seems like this death is going to be the inciting event of the war between the gods, but I don't think they've confirmed that yet. Anyway, what they've been doing on their website is post a series of ten "prophecies" about certain gods dying. These are all false prophecies, though, so when they post a story about one of the gods, it actually marks that god as being safe from being the one that's going to die. So they've eliminated half of the core gods from being the one who gets it. Notably, a lot of fan-favorite gods are still in danger, including the most famous god from the setting, Sarenrae.
They're going to reveal who is actually going to eat it on the 16th, in a stream in which they're also going to announce the rest of their plans for the War of Immortals era of PF2 (so the Adventure Path, that novel, etc.). It's all a big marketing gimmick, of course, but it's been a fun one, and some of the fiction they've posted as part of the "prophecies" has been actually pretty interesting for people who are lore buffs. People on the Paizo site keep looking for patterns in the stories or even in the details of the accompanying "who's safe" graphic as some sort of clue. It reminds me of when we're all trying to predict the next Smash character, haha (the difference is that Paizo has hinted that there is clues in the stories).
I'm kind of not sure if they're going to actually kill off one of the fan-favorite deities. There's still some…less beloved deities in the ten remaining that they could kill off, and I don't think that would be too much of a pulled punch. But killing off a character a lot of people care about is more interesting.
A lot of people are worried that they're going to kill off Shelyn, which I think would make people upset because Shelyn, Sarenrae, and Desna (who has been marked safe) are in a poly same-sex relationship with each other and some people don't like the idea of killing a character that they like for being representation for who they are. But of course, if you're going for drama, it'd be most interesting to kill the character in a relationship, because then we get to see how their partner(s) react(s).
Paizo has…actually gotten pretty good at queer representation in Pathfinder, and they've taken care to write some of their "iconic" characters as being lesbian, or nonbinary, or trans (no confirmed gay male iconic characters as of yet, surprisingly, though fans have their suspicions regarding Harsk). So if they decide to put a Shelyn-sized hole in everyone's favorite deific throuple, I won't think they're being, like, homophobic. But I still kind of hope they don't.
If you have no clue what I'm talking about…so, the big new Pathfinder sourcebook this year (besides Player Core 2, which is actually getting the Gen Con release slot) is War of Immortals, which is basically about (wait for it!) a war between the gods, and it seems like they're also going to tie into that story with the next Adventure Path after Q3's Curtain Call, in the same way that some previous Adventure Paths have been clearly designed to pair with previous sourcebooks (Guns & Gears and Outlaws of Alkenstar being perhaps the most obvious). They've also announced that they're doing a tie-in novel as part of this whole god war thing, the first tie-in novel they've done in a while. So it seems like this is all Sort of a Big Deal.
Anyway, the other thing that makes it a Big Deal is that they've announced that one of the gods in the Pathfinder universe is going to die, and not just a minor god, but one of the "core 20" deities. It seems like this death is going to be the inciting event of the war between the gods, but I don't think they've confirmed that yet. Anyway, what they've been doing on their website is post a series of ten "prophecies" about certain gods dying. These are all false prophecies, though, so when they post a story about one of the gods, it actually marks that god as being safe from being the one that's going to die. So they've eliminated half of the core gods from being the one who gets it. Notably, a lot of fan-favorite gods are still in danger, including the most famous god from the setting, Sarenrae.
They're going to reveal who is actually going to eat it on the 16th, in a stream in which they're also going to announce the rest of their plans for the War of Immortals era of PF2 (so the Adventure Path, that novel, etc.). It's all a big marketing gimmick, of course, but it's been a fun one, and some of the fiction they've posted as part of the "prophecies" has been actually pretty interesting for people who are lore buffs. People on the Paizo site keep looking for patterns in the stories or even in the details of the accompanying "who's safe" graphic as some sort of clue. It reminds me of when we're all trying to predict the next Smash character, haha (the difference is that Paizo has hinted that there is clues in the stories).
I'm kind of not sure if they're going to actually kill off one of the fan-favorite deities. There's still some…less beloved deities in the ten remaining that they could kill off, and I don't think that would be too much of a pulled punch. But killing off a character a lot of people care about is more interesting.
A lot of people are worried that they're going to kill off Shelyn, which I think would make people upset because Shelyn, Sarenrae, and Desna (who has been marked safe) are in a poly same-sex relationship with each other and some people don't like the idea of killing a character that they like for being representation for who they are. But of course, if you're going for drama, it'd be most interesting to kill the character in a relationship, because then we get to see how their partner(s) react(s).
Paizo has…actually gotten pretty good at queer representation in Pathfinder, and they've taken care to write some of their "iconic" characters as being lesbian, or nonbinary, or trans (no confirmed gay male iconic characters as of yet, surprisingly, though fans have their suspicions regarding Harsk). So if they decide to put a Shelyn-sized hole in everyone's favorite deific throuple, I won't think they're being, like, homophobic. But I still kind of hope they don't.
I'm just throwing a dart out there and saying Sarenrae gets got.
That does feel like the thing that would be by far the most impactful, in an "oh, shit, they're actually doing it" kind of way. And there's even been a few things that maybe kinda-sorta hint at it.
I guess it sort of depends on what their original motive for coming up with this whole thing was. If it was to make a big splash and shake things up, they'll kill Sarenrae. If they want to make a moderate-sized splash with lots of drama potential and have a meaningful change without having to kill off what is basically the "generic good deity" in their setting, they'll kill Shelyn. If it was because they had a core 20 god that they didn't really know what to do with or didn't really like and were like, "you know, the most interesting thing we can probably do with this guy is kill him," it might be someone else.
Sarenrae getting killed off would be almost too big a move, she's popular enough that there'd be a ton of upset about it.
Gorum dying is the easiest way to start the whole thing off. He's the God of War so him dying in battle is cool, and you'd instantly have narratives spinning out of that as other beings struggle to become the new God of War.
I saw the 'Lamashtu kills herself to unleash greater horrors' theory and really dug that, though I think that specific way of starting it is unlikely. She definitely has the most baggage though. So her dying seems possible.
Gozreh is easily replaceable. Though that's almost too boring. Could make for a good climate change catastrophe story though.
We know Arazni is joining the core pantheon, so Iomadae going could, in theory, have a replacement, but losing the God of Paladins seems like a poor choice for the game, and you'd have to change a lot of what makes Arazni popular if she were to replace Iomadae. Though nothing says she's going to replace whoever dies.
Gorum dying is the easiest way to start the whole thing off. He's the God of War so him dying in battle is cool, and you'd instantly have narratives spinning out of that as other beings struggle to become the new God of War.
I saw the 'Lamashtu kills herself to unleash greater horrors' theory and really dug that, though I think that specific way of starting it is unlikely. She definitely has the most baggage though. So her dying seems possible.
Gozreh is easily replaceable. Though that's almost too boring. Could make for a good climate change catastrophe story though.
We know Arazni is joining the core pantheon, so Iomadae going could, in theory, have a replacement, but losing the God of Paladins seems like a poor choice for the game, and you'd have to change a lot of what makes Arazni popular if she were to replace Iomadae. Though nothing says she's going to replace whoever dies.
Lamashtu is the only deity not to be mentioned in any of the prophecy stories that have been posted on the website. Since they hinted that there were clues in the stories, that seems potentially notable. There were three gods that hadn't yet been mentioned until this week's final story, but this week's story mentioned two of those three.
I definitely agree that Gorum and Gozreh are probably the "safest" targets, at the risk of maybe feeling like a pulled punch. Gorum is a logical choice and…he's kind of boring and doesn't really seem to be anyone's favorite.
For whatever it's worth, Sarenrae, Desna, Torag, and Gozreh are the four deities mentioned in the Beginner's Box, which was just reprinted. Sarenrae, Desna, and Torag are presented as options for a player creating their Cleric (and Sarenrae is the deity of the premade Cleric), while players encounter a shrine to Gozreh in the included adventure. And Sarenrae, Erastil, Cayden Cailean, and Gozreh are the four core deities that have a presence (to varying degrees) in the setting for Abomination Vaults, which is of course a very popular Adventure Path and sort of the default choice for new PF2 players (and one that's getting both a digital adaptation and a 5E adaptation). Among all those, the only three not yet "safe" are Sarenrae, Torag, and Gozreh.
More and more convinced it's Lamashtu.
'Who would want to give the gods nightmares?' Lamashtu.
Who's the most problematic Core 20 god? Lamashtu.
Imo something happens that results in Desna ganking Lamashtu. Arazni can sweep up the 'outcasts' theme without any of Lamashtu's baggage.
'Who would want to give the gods nightmares?' Lamashtu.
Who's the most problematic Core 20 god? Lamashtu.
Imo something happens that results in Desna ganking Lamashtu. Arazni can sweep up the 'outcasts' theme without any of Lamashtu's baggage.
Outcasts being monsters/embracing monstrous status. Also Lamashtu is thematically a Goddess of Sexual Assault.
I can see it being Lamashtu. The only thing that gives me a bit of pause is that they're part of the in-universe zodiac and have a month named after them. But then again, so does Aroden, and he's pretty dead.
Lamashtu is the Mother of Monsters and in some of the stories, some of her followers make new monsters by...supernaturally impregnating people (both men and women, apparently!) with new monsters that basically kill their hosts when they are "birthed." Which is...gross, and also kind of uncomfortable in a game that is trying to shed some of the early PF1 edginess.
It's also not super great that the god of outcasts/outsiders is also the god of hideous monsters that want to turn the world profane, too.
Somehow Aroden has returned.
Only to instantly die harder a second time.
I'm not really up on the pathfinder lore but I have a group I play with every fortnight and it's really fun. After we finish this campaign I'm going to run a Masks campaign and try see how many real comic book characters I can put inot it who are just plain weird
yeah this isnt good
Also replacing Lamashtu with Arazni, who, above all else, is a survivor, would be a good move.
There's a bunch of interesting outcomes from Lamashtu's demise too. All her cults would still be around, and there's enough children of Lamashtu to want to fight over who's in charge of those. Lamashtu's also the top hyena of the Abyss, which has not had a lot of focus lately, so her demise could lead to demons taking more interest in the material plane. There's another possible war.
Lamashtu threatens to kidnap Shelyn, Desna gets nightmares of what will happen, ganks Lamashtu, unleashes even more horrors. Boom, War of the Immortals.
There's a bunch of interesting outcomes from Lamashtu's demise too. All her cults would still be around, and there's enough children of Lamashtu to want to fight over who's in charge of those. Lamashtu's also the top hyena of the Abyss, which has not had a lot of focus lately, so her demise could lead to demons taking more interest in the material plane. There's another possible war.
Lamashtu threatens to kidnap Shelyn, Desna gets nightmares of what will happen, ganks Lamashtu, unleashes even more horrors. Boom, War of the Immortals.
Thanks! Did they do any changes to the pantheon during the Remaster or is Golarion pretty original in terms of not being attached to the OGL at all? I know Critical Role used Sarenrae + 4E's Dawn War pantheon for the basis of Exandria but a demon like Asmodeus is in the public domain and something both Golarion and Forgotten Realms share
No changes to the pantheon during the Remaster to my knowledge, they've not put out any books that would cover that. Asmodeus is one of the Core 20 gods and covered by the OGL, so if there was any worry about that he'd be one to go, but it'd be an absurd legal fight for WoTC to claim that their version of Asmodeus and Paizo's version is similar enough to breach copyright, given that Asmodeus has some rather famous prior art about him that they both draw on!
There's other minor gods that fall under the OGL, maybe, but most of those have similar real world examples to draw on, like Orcus. Paizo likely just won't use him again.
Yeah, I'm convinced. Also I really don't want it to be Sarenrae or Shelyn haha
I just hope the tie-in Adventure Path is a big, old-school twenty-level/six-volume Adventure Path. I do like the shorter Adventure Paths that they've been making lately but if any story deserves to be a big long epic it's a war between gods.
My hunch is that it's not going to really be like that. Part of the idea of the god dying is that their deific essence is then going to be scattered throughout the universe, raining down on Golarion and creating new demigods (this is given as a potential in-universe explanation for PCs in the new Exemplar class, which is basically a demigod class), so there will be plenty of powerful threats for that AP without literal gods walking the earth.
Oof, again this feels very reminiscent of the Time of Troubles and it's aftermath...
Of course, it makes me wonder if this type of story can be done differently and, really, probably not.
It'll be interesting to see Pathfinder's take on this... But I'll still call shenanigans if the gods walk the planet!
It's the best time ever to break into the game. PF2e is in a happy spot where it has a lot of published content but not an overwhelming amount of content, and they've sort of gotten into the groove with Adventure Paths and they've errata'd some of the early edition weirdness and fixed the class that was sort of a mess.
Are you doing an Adventure Path, or making up your own story? (Also, did you see the Humble Bundle with a bunch of PF2e books?)
As it turns out I have a bunch of PF2e as pdfs because of other Humble Bundles and I bought that bundle because Guns & Gears as pdf and a physical book alongside some other pdfs that I didn't have yet were worth the price of admission! I just got the book this past Thursday and already adore what Guns & Gears offers. I hope to use it to set a different tone with PF from our D&D games. I also really want to run the Alkenstar AP and slap it with a fun Quick and the Dead style playful Western tone cuz myself and a few of the other players absolutely love that movie! Not only all that, but I started collecting physically with the remasters of 2e right after Christmas last year, so now I have the Player, GM and Monster cores!
I haven't actually run anything yet, though. I'm trying to get into a PbP PF2e game right now as a player, and am also deep into converting an old 4e D&D adventure (the first one I ever DMed, Keep on Shadowfell) as a fun conversion exercise and trip down memory lane to run for my current group of players and current 5e DM who wants to get on the other side of the screen for a regular game. haha
They're all newer tabletop gamers (within the last 5 years or so, but I've been gaming for 15 so I'm practically oldman TTRPGs even tho we're all roughly the same age) and they want to see what what the first game I ever DMed was like which is mighty sweet of 'em and I'm looking forward to running it again. 4e adventures transpose over to PF2e really nicely with only a few minor changes and tweaks, as it turns out? I was excited to realize this. I'm gonna run minions as is pretty much, and swap monster statblocks where applicable and make different encounters where I think things might be a bit too samey and like something won't be missed if I just dropped different PF monsters in.
It's been a lot of fun and not too much work at all! I've been putting notes together in One Note and it's been super fun and easy to get things looking sharp in there! I probably won't run it until roughly June-ish which is when the revised GM screen and Monster Core pawn box comes out anyway. Our DM also says to expect a break from our current D&D game around that time too cuz he's running it as more open sandbox so wants to prep stuff we may bump into. So perfect time to run this and get used to running the game.
I actually ran to our group chat after reading your post and all the fun speculation here and started hyping up this War of Immortals story line as something I'd like to try and run as it releases. lol
Will be streamed here.
www.twitch.tv
OfficialPaizo - Twitch
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It starts right as I get off of work. Hope it's not too late for you, Uzzy! I promise you it almost certainly won't be worth staying up for. We can just fill you in over your AM routine. lol
Paizo's stream about the upcoming War of Immortals event and its related products including a novel, rulebook, Lost Omens book and adventure path, and which one of the Inner Sea Core 20 gods is going to die.
Apr 16, 2024 at 7:00 PM
Midnight for me hah.
I really hope it's a big old-school six-volume adventure path. I know they said that they have concerns about doing too many of those any more because a lot of times the latter half of the books really fall off in sales, but hopefully everything with the big "event" and the novel and the new sourcebooks makes them confident that they can maintain interest in this one. I'm at least way more intrigued by this than I was by Blood Lords, which didn't really appeal to me at all.
I like the shorter, more experimental adventure paths too (it's hard to imagine something like the central concept of Curtain Call being maintained for six volumes) and being able to combine one 1-10 campaign and one 11-20 campaign into an adventurer's "career" is nice. But something like this really needs to feel epic.
I like the shorter, more experimental adventure paths too (it's hard to imagine something like the central concept of Curtain Call being maintained for six volumes) and being able to combine one 1-10 campaign and one 11-20 campaign into an adventurer's "career" is nice. But something like this really needs to feel epic.
Reading through the stream, I was thinking it would either be him or Gozreh with the themes of war and nature being used. And Aranzi could slip into CN fairly easily.
As for the new classes, I guess one of the new classes and archetypes can fill that empty inquisitor hole in my heart.
Yeah, I'm okay with it too. Gorum is one of those gods that's, like, I get why they felt like they needed a god of war, that's a very fundamental concept, but they're also kind of like a nothing character. I don't think they're very many people's favorite god, and I think that goes for the development team as well...and there's also just something fitting about a war between gods being started by the god of war dying.
I'd much, much rather it be Gorum than Sarenrae or Shelyn or anyone that feels like it was something they were just doing for maximum drama.
I would have been sad if they killed Gozreh. I don't actually like Gozreh that much like as a character, with the weird dual aspect thing (though I guess it's cool that they're unique like that), but I think it's important for the setting and pantheon to have a specific nature deity that isn't just the Green Faith, and I don't think Arazni or any other god could really take over that role nearly as well as the idea of armed conflict could be something that multiple gods concern themselves with.
I'd much, much rather it be Gorum than Sarenrae or Shelyn or anyone that feels like it was something they were just doing for maximum drama.
I would have been sad if they killed Gozreh. I don't actually like Gozreh that much like as a character, with the weird dual aspect thing (though I guess it's cool that they're unique like that), but I think it's important for the setting and pantheon to have a specific nature deity that isn't just the Green Faith, and I don't think Arazni or any other god could really take over that role nearly as well as the idea of armed conflict could be something that multiple gods concern themselves with.
It's wild that they announced the playtest for their new 2025 classes and that it's starting this month. I get that the schedule for the next few years is maybe going to be a bit weird with launching Starfinder 2e too, though — I'm sure that will be a big focus of Gen Con 2024 and 2025. I had sort of assumed that the 2025 Big Pathfinder Class book was going to be in the fall after Gen Con, like War of Immortals is, but maybe I have that wrong and it'll be the 1H 2025 book?
A martial-themed book for 2025 makes sense. It feels like we've had a few magic-themed books in a row.
I think a lot of Paizo's adventure and rulebook logos end up looking kind of amateurish, to be honest. (It doesn't help that a lot of times they release images of upcoming covers with non-final logos, though I think those are both final.) Which is funny because a lot of the book interiors are very well designed and of course they're known for the quality of their illustration.
I really like the cover for Divine Mysteries. I'm a sucker for stained glass and I like how the triptych design of the windows recalls the earlier Lost Omens book, Gods & Magic.
WotC President Cynthia Williams is stepping down at the end of the month.
Confirms that the Commander with be the PF2E Warlord analogue and that the Guardian will be the dedicated aggro drawing tank class.
Strong Glass Cliff vibes this, Williams comes in to do the unpopular downsizing, her replacement gets the plaudits.
Very cool! Warlord fans are eating good.
It's wild that the new classes bring the total number of classes in Pathfinder 2e to 27.
I'm not going to lie, there was a part of me that hoped that 2023's Rage of Elements adding just one new class would be the new normal. I think I would have been fine if the Exemplar was the only new class in War of Immortals and the Animist eventually appeared in their own, more Animist-y book. I get that sort of sounds like sacrilege, and I'm definitely glad that Paizo continues to add classes to the game (unlike...some other fantasy RPGs), but there is a limited amount of design space in any game, and eventually you're slicing things really thin to make a new class that's sort of between two other classes. I feel like PF2e as a system is really just getting started (it turns five this year!) and I guess I sort of don't want them to burn through the available design space too quckly? If that makes sense?
PF1e got up to 40 classes in its decade-long run, not even counting the remixed classes in Pathfinder Unchained. That's a lot for people to sort of wrap their brains around — once you get to the point that even a dedicated fan of the game might have trouble recalling all the classes, I think you're in iffy territory. And I sort of hope that PF2e is around for even longer than PF1e was. If it's around until, say, the 25th anniversary of Pathfinder in 2032, or the 25th anniversary of the Pathfinder RPG in 2034 — which both seem very possible, and in fact I'd be surprised if PF3e appears any sooner than that — and it adds two new classes a year through either 2031 or 2023, that'll bring the total class count to either 39 or 43.
Also — and this doesn't matter to anyone but weird nerds like me — I liked the symmetry of the '23 book adding that numbered class to the game and it would have been cool to see that continue. The '24 book would add the 24th class, the '25 book would add the 25th...you'd always know how many classes were in Pathfinder by just looking at which year it was and whether the big book for the year had come out yet.
I'm not going to lie, there was a part of me that hoped that 2023's Rage of Elements adding just one new class would be the new normal. I think I would have been fine if the Exemplar was the only new class in War of Immortals and the Animist eventually appeared in their own, more Animist-y book. I get that sort of sounds like sacrilege, and I'm definitely glad that Paizo continues to add classes to the game (unlike...some other fantasy RPGs), but there is a limited amount of design space in any game, and eventually you're slicing things really thin to make a new class that's sort of between two other classes. I feel like PF2e as a system is really just getting started (it turns five this year!) and I guess I sort of don't want them to burn through the available design space too quckly? If that makes sense?
PF1e got up to 40 classes in its decade-long run, not even counting the remixed classes in Pathfinder Unchained. That's a lot for people to sort of wrap their brains around — once you get to the point that even a dedicated fan of the game might have trouble recalling all the classes, I think you're in iffy territory. And I sort of hope that PF2e is around for even longer than PF1e was. If it's around until, say, the 25th anniversary of Pathfinder in 2032, or the 25th anniversary of the Pathfinder RPG in 2034 — which both seem very possible, and in fact I'd be surprised if PF3e appears any sooner than that — and it adds two new classes a year through either 2031 or 2023, that'll bring the total class count to either 39 or 43.
Also — and this doesn't matter to anyone but weird nerds like me — I liked the symmetry of the '23 book adding that numbered class to the game and it would have been cool to see that continue. The '24 book would add the 24th class, the '25 book would add the 25th...you'd always know how many classes were in Pathfinder by just looking at which year it was and whether the big book for the year had come out yet.
The barrier to entry is definitely getting higher and higher. I know a few people who were initially excited at the prospect of "more complex D&D" but looked at the Feats or Spells list and had a huge drop off in enthusiasm.
I know Exemplar will be a "rare" class and the mythic rules and special class archetypes will also have specific rules delineated but my experience with having to wrangle certain spells or character options has not been the smoothest. I dread that there will be a super strong option that, in context, will have proper access rules and rarity explained but most context gets lost in AoN and definitely in Foundry's character option browser.
I know Exemplar will be a "rare" class and the mythic rules and special class archetypes will also have specific rules delineated but my experience with having to wrangle certain spells or character options has not been the smoothest. I dread that there will be a super strong option that, in context, will have proper access rules and rarity explained but most context gets lost in AoN and definitely in Foundry's character option browser.