Tara Reade appears to have lied under oath about her education, defense lawyers seek to get convictions overturned in cases where she testified

[captmcblack]

On a counterpoint, PoliGAF/Era is/was also considered one of the worst and most toxic parts of these forums, so it might not be bad for them to have broken up, just not for casting doubt on allegations that people had some reason to be suspicious of given the timing.

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I've been posting on this forum (or some version of it) for close to 16 years. I've seen every season of this community, and virtually every type of political discussion here and in those community threads for as long as they've happened. I've never read anyone say those threads were toxic, ever. I've read or seen certain members be toxic, and I've seen that be as a result of certain ideological/political slants requiring extremes or tactical agitating/trolling/shit-stirring as a function of participation. I've seen how that behavior shifted as certain types of public political identification stopped being "cool" online, such that even vaguely talking about it fell (rightfully so) within the Venn diagram of shit that's bannable.

But I've never seen anyone saying the whole of that group and the decade+ of community posting (or posters) were toxic. It actually sucks that this last few months of politics and aggressive trolling/shitposting was the last straw, because that community thread provided tons of good posts and valuable news and information no matter what part of the political spectrum you fell on. Probably the only problem you could have was if you thought political discussion was more about namecalling and "making people uncomfortable" as a rhetorical debate strategy.

 

[Deleted member 4783]

Again. a community of mostly warren/ and a few bernie supporters was neoliberal. Which shows how toxic the OT has become about labeling people with terms they dont even understand.

Hint: Just about nobody from that community had biden in their top three choices, but you all revise history to suit yourselves.

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That's it? I should have checked the community when we moved from GAF.

I apologise then, should have made a better judgement.

 

[DorkLord54]

No, it was not. Unless you are claiming warren is a neoliberal.

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She isn't, but I think it would be hard to argue that some of the prominent Warren supporters on the site weren't known for stances that would uncontroversially be considered quite neoliberal (I have a very specific name in mind).

As I said before, I'm willing to drop it, esp since said user and some of their views might be colouring my perspective.

 

[Darryl M R]

I'm pretty sure this is my first post in a Tara Reade thread, so I feel comfortable sharing this advice for posters who claim they are passive participants in this overall discussion (read: not Poli-Era members or those looking for a back and forth conversation about ongoing and new facts/understandings).

If you are waiting for more information from a source that you believe is trustworthy, then you can also wait to post.

 

[Deleted member 4976]

That's it? I should have checked the community when we moved from GAF.

I apologise then, should have made a better judgement.

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PoliEra used to be, in my view, by far the best way to stay up to date with U.S politics.

 

[julian]

That's true. I didn't think of that. I guess it would be pretty pointless since we would have nothing to compare it to. Nevermind then.

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Once the dust has settled, maybe asking whose mind has changed over time and in which direction would be interesting, but I almost wonder if people are capable of being honest with themselves.
I'm not even sure how I'd answer. When the accusation first came about I had no reason to doubt her but I also was
1) too busy to actively participate in any discourse or read up on specifics (I think I missed the whole first graveyard....I mean thread)
2) too sad about the fact that it didn't matter if he did or didn't do it because I am ultimately powerless and couldn't realistically imagine how Biden wouldn't be the nominee.
So I probably didn't want to come away with strong feelings one way or the other for fear of what that would mean in November since I knew I'd be voting for him even if I concluded he did it, because no matter how gross that is, the,alternative in my mind is so much worse.
It was better to not get bogged down in details, let reporters do their jobs and see where things ended up. Which ultimately is what people should be doing anyways. I do appreciate the calls for an actual investigation to take place, that was needed, but the reaction to those investigations shows how little some people actually cared about what was found. There was always an excuse to anything contradicting or anybody questioning her story.

 

[Deleted member 42055]

I think with Kirblar "multiple prior severe bans across multiple topics" is the main reason he got banned and this was just the straw that broke the camel's back. Kirblar has had many issues in the past before and moderators say they take posters' past behavior into account when dealing with reports/infractions, so I'm guessing that informed that ban.

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Then it's gonna be very much agree to disagree, because my experiences with PoliEra were always the other way around, i.e. neoliberal posters who made the OT feel unwelcoming to people who didn't share their particular brand of politics even nothing they posted was offensive or even a bad take (tho obviously there are people in political threads outside of the PoliEra OT who post some shit that is way too defensive of Bernie when it shouldn't be).

I'll drop it tho, because I am forgetting myself that there are actual people behind these keyboards, and most of them do care about the same causes I care about and we're all just getting heated about it like we should.

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It's ok I've seen it too, you're talking about how their are people that routinely acted above/condescending to the rest of this forum in political topics , who complain about pretty much everything outside of their little hangout bubble, and when called on it refuse to admit things and suggest they're 100 on the up and up.

I'm sure they're smugly complaining about people's frustrations about the latest Biden comments as they ask for Discord links to leave, as if they're some marginalized group, please. So much of that community needs to get over itself.

 

[Deleted member 42055]

PoliEra used to be, in my view, by far the best way to stay up to date with U.S politics.

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And this is another thing, if you exist on the internet with its infinite resources and think "I need poliera" in regards to staying informed.. like come on. That's on you ( not you, you, the General you)

 

[El Bombastico]

I've been on this forum since it opened and on gaf like 3 years before that and I still don't know what a "Neoliberal" means since it seems that change from person to person and just mean "anyone whose politics doesn't perfectly match mine"...

 

[Armaros]

And this is another thing, if you exist on the internet with its infinite resources and think "I need poliera" in regards to staying informed.. like come on. That's on you ( not you, you, the General you)

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Funny, thats literally was the point of this entire forum, as a good place to find news and discussion about video games and (later in its life) world events. But why do we need this place if there is the entire internet for us?

Good job, you have argued against this place existing.

 

[BossAttack]

Honestly, who even gives a shit if someone is neoliberal (I assume means a moderate democrat). As long as they are arguing in good faith, why can't we hear them out? Do we have to live in a bubble and not be confronted with opinions different than our own?

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People throw out neoliberal having no idea what it means. But in the traditional sense a neoliberal is someone that believes in applying market solutions to societal problems whereas a traditional liberal would turn to the government, ie regulation, to solve such problems.

Let's use the Environment as a issue basis.

An example of a neoliberal solution would be Cap & Trade. If you are unfamiliar here's a basic summary:
"In a cap-and-trade system, the government sets an emissions cap and issues a quantity of emission allowances consistent with that cap. Emitters must hold allowances for every ton of greenhouse gas they emit. Companies may buy and sell allowances, and this market establishes an emissions price. Companies that can reduce their emissions at a lower cost may sell any excess allowances for companies facing higher costs to buy."

A classic liberal's solution would be simple and clear regulation on emissions, perhaps even mandates on the technology that a company can use.

Neoliberalism does not view the market as inherently evil/destructive, but something that can be utilized to solve issues.

 

[Coyote Starrk]

And this is another thing, if you exist on the internet with its infinite resources and think "I need poliera" in regards to staying informed.. like come on. That's on you ( not you, you, the General you)

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This is a badly shortsighted take.

 

[Loud Wrong]

And this is another thing, if you exist on the internet with its infinite resources and think "I need poliera" in regards to staying informed.. like come on. That's on you ( not you, you, the General you)

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How does this not also apply to the site as a whole?

 

[GYODX]

And this is another thing, if you exist on the internet with its infinite resources and think "I need poliera" in regards to staying informed.. like come on. That's on you ( not you, you, the General you)

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Who are you to decide what people choose to get out of this forum? Nobody *needs* PoliERA to stay informed, but a lot of us would *prefer* that PoliERA stay around because it's space for well-informed, level-headed political discussion--something that's very hard to find elsewhere on the Internet.

 

[Deleted member 3896]

Funny, thats literally was the point of this entire forum, as a good place to find news and discussion about video games and (later in its life) world events. But why do we need this place if there is the entire internet for us?

Good job, you have argued against this place existing.

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This.

PoliEra, despite its flaws, was an excellent resource for progressives who wanted to stay informed with news and analysis through a curated flow of information. The vast majority of posters there were progressives whose views were far to the left of the majority of the country yet were willing to work with pragmatic choices when necessary. It's sad that that's gone but thankfully that discussion continues elsewhere.

 

[SJurgenson]

People throw out neoliberal having no idea what it means. But in the traditional sense a neoliberal is someone that believes in applying market solutions to societal problems whereas a traditional liberal would turn to the government, ie regulation, to solve such problems.

Let's use the Environment as a issue basis.

An example of a neoliberal solution would be Cap & Trade. If you are unfamiliar here's a basic summary:
"In a cap-and-trade system, the government sets an emissions cap and issues a quantity of emission allowances consistent with that cap. Emitters must hold allowances for every ton of greenhouse gas they emit. Companies may buy and sell allowances, and this market establishes an emissions price. Companies that can reduce their emissions at a lower cost may sell any excess allowances for companies facing higher costs to buy."

A classic liberal's solution would be simple and clear regulation on emissions, perhaps even mandates on the technology that a company can use.

Neoliberalism does not view the market as inherently evil/destructive, but something that can be utilized to solve issues.

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Thanks, that was informative!..

... I have no idea how 'neoliberal' became a slur to attack 'moderates' then. Is is perhaps just trying to attach 'neo' to 'liberals' since it had a negative connotation with 'neocons'?

 

[Ogodei]

I honestly don't think so. I mean Poli-ERA is an extension of PoliGAF which was peak neoliberal wank fest

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Most of PoliEra supported Warren and very few of us backed Biden.

We get the branding "neoliberal" because we're pragmatic electoralists, despite most of us being pretty damn left when it comes to it, but it doesn't seem like you can take the label of left unless you want to burn it all down, or take any stance other than the idea that America is shit and has always been shit. These stances rubbed members of the community the wrong way because 1) nobody's going to get anywhere, politically, believing that and 2) it shits on the really hard work of countless supporters of the Democratic party to change lives for the better.

But something something drone strikes.

 

[Deleted member 42055]

Funny, thats literally was the point of this entire forum, as a good place to find news and discussion about video games and (later in its life) world events. But why do we need this place if there is the entire internet for us?

Good job, you have argued against this place existing.

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uh huh because that's certainly what I said.

This is a badly shortsighted take.

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YMMV but my point is if your only, ONLY resource to stay informed on our nations politics is a forum on the Internet then maybe you should put some work in. I don't know how people can take that suggestion personally.

I am only so annoyed at this because this entire thread got hijacked selfishly from a very important topic by that community in order to just air their grievances. Also, it seems like every chance someone gets they hint at some mass exodus towards Discord where they can continue to high five each other because spooky Era is just so terrible. So bye then? Or ask for a sit down with the mods.

I commend the mods once again for doing the best they could with the unenviable task of moderating this whole thing. I apologize and am sorry to the actual victims who got caught in the crossfire.

 

[Deleted member 4976]

And this is another thing, if you exist on the internet with its infinite resources and think "I need poliera" in regards to staying informed.. like come on. That's on you ( not you, you, the General you)

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Feel free to point me to alternative, comparable sources.

And that's an honest request. I like staying up to date. I have RSS feeds setup, email alerts and the like but discussion is a useful aspect of contexualizing the massive amount of U.S political news.

Most stuff I come across tends to be related to reddit, where the amount of racism, sexism and bigotry prevalent in some subs is hard to ignore.

 

[Captain Tuttle]

Again, ganging up on the moderation team that tries their best to facilitate the needs/desires of the Era climate of any given instance is the wrong take-away.

Stop blaming moderation. The stringent moderation is indicative of the hostile environment of this site. If the mod team didn't clamp down on rationally skeptical posts in the past weeks, they get blasted for "siding with rape apologists" and creating an "unsafe environment for survivors." There was literally no course of action, where they win, with how ridiculously fractured Era is over these cases. Just take a second to think before unironically jumping into another premature blame game.

This site's discourse around allegations needs to change on a fundamental level, if we want to make Era a better place for all participants. I feel like pointing fingers at the moderation team is by far the worst course of action.

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I'm late to this line of discussion but I agree with this post totally. I'm just not sure what the answer is. For me personally I try to lurk in these threads, read a lot and try to learn as much as I can. I do very little posting for fear of inadvertently causing pain, it's just not worth it.
Edit: I've posted stuff that I've regretted and like to have think I've learned from those mistakes

 

[Deleted member 4783]

People throw out neoliberal having no idea what it means. But in the traditional sense a neoliberal is someone that believes in applying market solutions to societal problems whereas a traditional liberal would turn to the government, ie regulation, to solve such problems.

Let's use the Environment as a issue basis.

An example of a neoliberal solution would be Cap & Trade. If you are unfamiliar here's a basic summary:
"In a cap-and-trade system, the government sets an emissions cap and issues a quantity of emission allowances consistent with that cap. Emitters must hold allowances for every ton of greenhouse gas they emit. Companies may buy and sell allowances, and this market establishes an emissions price. Companies that can reduce their emissions at a lower cost may sell any excess allowances for companies facing higher costs to buy."

A classic liberal's solution would be simple and clear regulation on emissions, perhaps even mandates on the technology that a company can use.

Neoliberalism does not view the market as inherently evil/destructive, but something that can be utilized to solve issues.

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Ah, yes. No one knows what neoliberalism is. Just the system that has been in place since the 80, having Chile as its testing ground. "The government is inefficient, let the market do its thing and privatize the shit out of it". Just one of the reasons inequality has largely increased, no biggie.

It seems neoliberals are the ones who are rebranding it.

 

[SJurgenson]

It seems neoliberals are the ones who are rebranding it.

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What is your definition of 'neoliberal'?

 

[Nairume]

How does this not also apply to the site as a whole?

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Because there's a difference between "I use ResetEra to keep up with what's going on in video games and complaining about Star Wars" and "I use ResetEra to inform what is going on in the world of politics"

ResetEra can absolutely be a way to stay informed about what's generally going on in the way, but you shouldn't be particularly reliant on it (much less PoliEra specifically) to inform your understanding of the state of politics in the world.

 

[Deleted member 48897]

What is your definition of 'neoliberal'?

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Seems like the free-market thing he mentioned in the middle sentences of his first paragraph is a pretty solid definition of it

 

[RolandGunner]

Ah, yes. No one knows what neoliberalism is. Just the system that has been in place since the 80, having Chile as its testing ground. "The government is inefficient, let the market do its thing and privatize the shit out of it". Just one of the reasons inequality has largely increased, no biggie.

It seems neoliberals are the ones who are rebranding it.

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This mostly proves the point that neoliberalism is whatever people don't like. If you compare what happened in the US in the 80's versus Europe or Latin America, there were very different policies that all get incoherently lumped together. Here it was mostly slash taxes, pump up military spending, and ride a huge debt fueled growth wave. Is that neoliberalism?

 

[GYODX]

Idk I'm starting to think 'neoliberal' is anything to the right of democratic socialism.

 

[captmcblack]

It just seems like neoliberalism - which anyone could Google or learn about in a first year college course or whatever - has a specific historical association with certain policies and politicians (at least in an American context), but neoliberalism as a slur has an association with progressive economic arguments against anything that opposes progressive economic positions.

It appears that people on the Internet want to use it in arguments to differentiate centrists/moderates/anyone that isn't progressive enough (like say, Obama) from anyone Bernie and further left...which is sometimes pretty funny because the further left you go, the more you'll find that some people even think Bernie is a neoliberal - and at that point, it's as if the word has no meaning anymore.

But honestly, I shouldn't even be posting this here because it feels like I'm taking thread derail bait, lol. Ms. Reade is the topic here...my bad.

 

[Deleted member 48897]

This mostly proves the point that neoliberalism is whatever people don't like. If you compare what happened in the US in the 80's versus Europe or Latin America, there were very different policies that all get incoherently lumped together. Here it was mostly slash taxes, pump up military spending, and ride a huge debt fueled growth wave. Is that neoliberalism?

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Don't forget the massive deregulation of markets too. There's a reason that the 80s in particular is so remembered by a certain age group for its toy-based TV shows like GI Joe and Transformers.

It appears that people on the Internet want to use it in arguments to differentiate centrists/moderates/anyone that isn't progressive enough (like say, Obama) from anyone Bernie and further left...which is sometimes pretty funny because the further left you go, the more you'll find that some people even think Bernie is a neoliberal - and at that point, it's as if the word has no meaning anymore.

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I agree that it's not a particularly useful term to levy at Sanders; I would say the distinction is that Sanders' policy, maybe as a matter of pragmatism or something, leans more toward Social Democracy than Dem Socialism or latter. I would say that a lot of policy that gets touted here as "progressive" is stuff that I would consider to be Social Dem policy -- not nothing, but known for being change that isn't particularly radical because it happens in the context of neoliberal policy norms / the existing system.

 

[uncredited male mk2]

What is going on here?

 

[El Bombastico]

Idk I'm starting to think 'neoliberal' is anything to the right of democratic socialism.

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And I'm starting to think its just anyone you don't like.

 

[GYODX]

This thread has veered so far away from its original purpose that it's probably getting locked very soon.

 

[SJurgenson]

This thread has veered so far away from its original purpose that it's probably getting locked very soon.

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Yeah. I don't know if there's much more to discuss, as there really hasn't been any new news since the lawyer dropped her as a client.

 

[DorkLord54]

I didn't mean to completely derail this thread with my comment, I didn't think it would escalate this much. I actually don't know if a sorry is enough for bringing back a lot of mutual bad blood that still exists from 2016 that doesn't need to resurface.

It just seems like neoliberalism - which anyone could Google or learn about in a first year college course or whatever - has a specific historical association with certain policies and politicians (at least in an American context), but neoliberalism as a slur has an association with progressive economic arguments against anything that opposes progressive economic positions.

It appears that people on the Internet want to use it in arguments to differentiate centrists/moderates/anyone that isn't progressive enough (like say, Obama) from anyone Bernie and further left...which is sometimes pretty funny because the further left you go, the more you'll find that some people even think Bernie is a neoliberal - and at that point, it's as if the word has no meaning anymore.

But honestly, I shouldn't even be posting this here because it feels like I'm taking thread derail bait, lol. Ms. Reade is the topic here...my bad.

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Eh, while he may have run as a progressive, Obama certainly administrated in a neoliberal manner not dissimilar to the Clintons, even with their disagreements with one another (tho it should be said that one of the biggest cases of this, the ACA/Obamacare, only came about because he was forced to concede to no public option thanks to blue dog Dems within the party, and that dusty old Heritage Foundation solution was the next-best thing he could think of).

And you shouldn't be the one apologising, I should since I'm the one who inadvertantly set this derail in action with my comment I shouldn't have made.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

It's sad that her accusation of Biden will just be swept under the rug, because she lied about something else. It is an absolute sham that when a woman is a victim of sexual assault they're on trial before the real culprit gets his.

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Because she lied about something else, under oath
And there are no other accusers
And where she said it happened didn't make sense
And claimed there is documentation that nobody has
And changed her story
And lied about the particulars of her situation in Biden's office

One, two, three of these things happen, maybe. All of them? Nah, didn't happen.

Also, while there were some smear articles out there, how the press approached this seems to be the epitome of responsible.

 

[chainlinkspiral]

This thread has veered so far away from its original purpose that it's probably getting locked very soon.

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There's still fresh news. Maybe just stop going off topic and stick to the topic.

 

[Mariolee]

Because she lied about something else, under oath
And there are no other accusers
And where she said it happened didn't make sense
And claimed there is documentation that nobody has
And changed her story
And lied about the particulars of her situation in Biden's office

One, two, three of these things happen, maybe. All of them? Nah, didn't happen.

Also, while there were some smear articles out there, how the press approached this seems to be the epitome of responsible.

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Have there really been no other accusers? Honest question because my memory is foggy.

 

[Cantaim]

Lawyer dropping her is a real bad look. Especially when he took her on 2 weeks ago

 

[carlsojo]

Have there really been no other accusers? Honest question because my memory is foggy.

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There was, the fourteen years old, but it was debunked when it was proven that Biden wasn't at the event due to a procedure or something.

 

[mugurumakensei]

Have there really been no other accusers? Honest question because my memory is foggy.

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not on the sexual assault(other than the quickly debunked one that couldn't have happened cause he was literally somewhere else at the time). There were other people who came forward with what happened last year with Joe not respecting personal space.

 

[less]

Yeah. I don't know if there's much more to discuss, as there really hasn't been any new news since the lawyer dropped her as a client.

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I'd imagine that the next bit of important news will be if the cases Tara was involved in are going to be go beyond just reexamination. I know six are being reexamined so far and more are likely to follow.

 

[Deleted member 3896]

It's sad that her accusation of Biden will just be swept under the rug, because she lied about something else. It is an absolute sham that when a woman is a victim of sexual assault they're on trial before the real culprit gets his.

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It's actually the opposite of being swept under the rug as now major news outlets are doing more and more proper investigation and reporting so the whole story can come to light now.

 

[Nairume]

What is going on here?

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People are using this thread as an opportunity to air grievances about forum drama and to try and guilt the staff into undoing some decisions that still have justification to them.

 

[chainlinkspiral]

Yeah. I don't know if there's much more to discuss, as there really hasn't been any new news since the lawyer dropped her as a client.

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That happened hours ago.

 

[SJurgenson]

That happened hours ago.

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Wasn't she represented by multiple lawyers? Have the other ones said anything?

 

[julian]

Have there really been no other accusers? Honest question because my memory is foggy.

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None that I'm aware of.

 

[BringBackSonics]

Idk I'm starting to think 'neoliberal' is anything to the right of democratic socialism.

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Toss establishment Dems and coporote dems as similiar descriptors, but perhaps not as antagonistic.

 

[Ogodei]

Have there really been no other accusers? Honest question because my memory is foggy.

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There have been other accusers of him not respecting personal space among women and touching them in ways that made them uncomfortable, but that none of the accusers characterized as sexual assault. This gels with what we've seen on video and what Biden has admitted to and apologized for (to the extent that he ever apologizes for anything, it doesn't absolve him but an admission is a positive first step). This also gels with Reade's original allegation, which was that she was sexually harassed in Biden's office and that this led to her departure.

 

[mugurumakensei]

Wasn't she represented by multiple lawyers? Have the other ones said anything?

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she had spoken with one other lawyer post Halper podcasr (the one with ties to SputnikNews) but I'm not sure that he actually took the case/offered PR.

 

[chainlinkspiral]

Wasn't she represented by multiple lawyers? Have the other ones said anything?

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There was only the one lawyer that I was aware of. A previous big stink was why other #metoo lawyers wouldn't represent her.

 

[Ramala]

I agree but that is basically what they are saying. If my posts can be interpreted in any way that someone thinks fits into this incredibly broad definition "rape apologist " they can feel free to report me and I'll be banned. Or my opinion is marginalized because I'm male. Or I'll get piled on by people for not believing women.

In my last post I quoted a conversation just in this thread where someone's opinion was dismissed and then they outed themselves for the sake of their argument and the person that dismissed them then walked themselves back after seeing they were a victim.

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Yeah, I understand its sensitive. I think the mods were working with the (sadly well founded) assumption that anyone who questioned her credibility, no matter the reason given, was a bad faith actor trying to silence a victim.