I want from next-gen little to no pop-ins. Just imagine playing an open world game and traveling seamlessly... but no more poor draw distance.
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The coming next-gen jump is actually the smallest we ever had.
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I agree honestly. SSD as the biggest advancement is kind of a joke imo. We'll get shorter load times and that's cool but imo it's immensely overblown. Like cool 3 sec load screens and no more corridor loads.
Amazing.
Not a huge deal to me at all imo as I enjoy mp load screens as a breather and corridor/elevator loads for sp same thing. Like I guess now I can just press pause instead for sp. Amazing I guess.
Amazing.
Not a huge deal to me at all imo as I enjoy mp load screens as a breather and corridor/elevator loads for sp same thing. Like I guess now I can just press pause instead for sp. Amazing I guess.
Because now you have SSDs and you don't need to store a shit ton of data on memory since you can easily grab it from storage in a blink of an eye.
On previous generations (and current) devs had to plan ahead and add around 30 seconds of gameplay on RAM. SSDs will change how things work and 16 GB is enough. Also memory is expensive.
The problem here is that you're just looking at the numbers and not the architectures (which is the most important aspect). An RDNA2 GPU has around 25% improved performance per core.
It's smaller but you can't ask for consoles to come with a 2 TB SSD with speeds higher than 2 GB/s in a console unless you're prepared to pay a hefty price.
You're also getting more control of what you can install/uninstall (at least on PS5) with each game. You can keep the campaign and uninstall the multiplayer or the other way around. It also helps that now due to the SSD devs won't have to duplicate data as much and games might end up not being a huge difference in size compared to PS4.
The pro versions were made for 4K TVs, that's about it. They play the exact same games the base versions did and with exception of a few titles (Gears 5 comes to mind) the majority of titles was made with base consoles in mind.
It's mostly due to pricing. You wanted 32 GB of GDDR6? Me too. I also wanted a 2 TB 5.5 GB/s SSD and a 20 TF GPU... but consoles aren't PCs, they're made to be affordable.
Go look at unreal engine 5 demo, it looks bonkers and there will be games in the next 5 years that will surpass that visual quality, have no doubt about it. This next-generation leap is going to be bigger than PS3 to PS4.
Haaaa, no. A thread on technical matters that contains the words "I'm no expert but..." doesn't fill me confidence.
Things aren't as simple to quantify as they were in the 8 bit to 16 bit etc days. Not for me anyway. I'm not ashamed to admit most of the tech specs go over my head these days.
What they showed in the UE5 demo is a pretty good indication that the next gen is a decent leap forward.
What they showed in the UE5 demo is a pretty good indication that the next gen is a decent leap forward.
Lmao the people who go in every thread touting the magic of the SSD which will forever change the way games are made and transcend our current understanding. Pop in will never be an issue in any game ever again
But yea the CPU upgrade is absolutely massive but I believe the ray tracing hardware is going to be the real secret sauce of this gen. It'll be the defining look
But yea the CPU upgrade is absolutely massive but I believe the ray tracing hardware is going to be the real secret sauce of this gen. It'll be the defining look
People are in the hype stage. In six years everyone will be talking about how this generation wasn't that big of an improvement besides the SSD, but next-gen, next-gen will be a game changer!
Every generational transition is a lot of gamers' first.
Geez, why do the replies are really toxic.
Just assuming the innocent basis. Maybe the OP genuinely doesn't know, and just explain it to him/her in a friendly manner.
Just like the others said, yes the failure here is that you forgot to factor the HUGE improvement on SSD, and also the metric of teraflop can't be compared here because of different architecture.
Just assuming the innocent basis. Maybe the OP genuinely doesn't know, and just explain it to him/her in a friendly manner.
Just like the others said, yes the failure here is that you forgot to factor the HUGE improvement on SSD, and also the metric of teraflop can't be compared here because of different architecture.
I dunno. Going from an HD 7850 to an RTX 2080 seems like quite the leap. Going from a sub-Q6600 CPU to a Ryzen 3700x seems like a good jump too. And going from a 100 MBps 5400rpm laptops drive to a top of line 5000MBps NVME drive seems like a pretty sizable hop.
Yeah, all in all this seems like a pretty massive bump in performance to me.
Yeah, all in all this seems like a pretty massive bump in performance to me.
Just wanted to reply to this bit: This is not what I was referring at to be honest.. I'm a big fan of graphics and its related technology but for gaming they arent the main reason why I like to play. If I take the Uncharted games as an example; they clearly follow the same template for each iteration. Sure, the levels got bigger and more open (altough I would argue the bigger 'semi-open' levels in U4 are new to the franchise); the game itself sticks to the 'ground rules' that got set in Uncharted 1: its a third person action/adventure game; with the adventure part mostly consisting of navigating through a level (often with some climbing/platforming involved) and solving puzzles (turning some knobs here and there in the right order); and the action part being a chest-high third person wave-shooter. I really hope the new technology opens up new avenues for game design because I find it hard to believe that Naughy Dog can only make this type of game. I've been playing games since the DOS & C64 age and I really hope the upcoming generation will come with something new (or atleast; is able to impress with certain gamedesigns even if they might be derivative).
Comparing realtime graphics to 'real life' is a folly in my opinion; some games (especially if they dont feature humans) might come close (like racing games) and we're surely making progress (especially with consumer hardware); but we probably won't get close to something that is convincingly photorealistic for another 20 to 30 years.
The amount of RAM and memory bandwidth for both PS5 and Xbox Series X is pretty disappointing.
I would argue that next, next gen consoles around 2027 will see a larger increase in both RAM and bandwidth.
I would think that the jump in CPU power and SSD speeds from PS5 to PS6 (and same on Microsoft's side) will not be nearly as large as it is from 8th gen to 9th gen. Sure, console CPUs will get even more powerful, and SSD will get faster, but not as drastically so.
The GPU side of things, as well as game development, will likely see ray tracing become more of a focus as we go to full hybrid Ray+Raster rendering.
I'd imagine that Unreal Engine 6 (which would come after PS6 is launched, say 2028) will also focus more on real time ray tracing for global illumination.
Anyway, I think some of the key technologies that will allow for a reasonable leap beyond PS5 and Xbox Series X will be:
3nm GAAFET transistors and next gen EUV lithography
Chiplets. It probably won't be feasible to produce monolithic APUs that provide a generational leap.
High Bandwidth Memory (perhaps HBM4 which is due around 2024) or maybe another type of stacked DRAM
Here's some reading material
semiengineering.com
semiengineering.com
semiengineering.com
semiengineering.com
I would argue that next, next gen consoles around 2027 will see a larger increase in both RAM and bandwidth.
I would think that the jump in CPU power and SSD speeds from PS5 to PS6 (and same on Microsoft's side) will not be nearly as large as it is from 8th gen to 9th gen. Sure, console CPUs will get even more powerful, and SSD will get faster, but not as drastically so.
The GPU side of things, as well as game development, will likely see ray tracing become more of a focus as we go to full hybrid Ray+Raster rendering.
I'd imagine that Unreal Engine 6 (which would come after PS6 is launched, say 2028) will also focus more on real time ray tracing for global illumination.
Anyway, I think some of the key technologies that will allow for a reasonable leap beyond PS5 and Xbox Series X will be:
3nm GAAFET transistors and next gen EUV lithography
Chiplets. It probably won't be feasible to produce monolithic APUs that provide a generational leap.
High Bandwidth Memory (perhaps HBM4 which is due around 2024) or maybe another type of stacked DRAM
Here's some reading material
5/3nm Wars Begin
New transistors structures are on the horizon with new tools and processes, but there are lots of problems, too.
semiengineering.com
Chiplet Momentum Rising
Companies and organizations racing to define interfaces and standards as SoC scaling costs continue to rise.
semiengineering.com
HBM Issues In AI Systems
Speeding up memory reveals new challenges, especially when memory is part of the package.
semiengineering.com
'More Than Moore' Reality Check
Multi-chip design is becoming more mainstream, but gaps remain.
semiengineering.com
if anything, I think this gen of hardware was supposed to be more about removing as many bottlenecks as possible as opposed to building the most powerful machines. ps4 and xbox one were clearly bottlenecked by the cpu, and the pro models didn't help too much. the speed of these ssds are very impressive considering we're gonna have this kind of power in a console, but I'm more optimistic about the overall harmony of having a system with a cpu, gpu, and memory architecture all up to snuff.
The unbridled vitriol in this thread is entirely unnecessary. Tf is wrong with you lot that this is the most important hill to defend?
Hmmmm you might be right. Admittedly I jumped ship early on in the gen when a lot of 3rd parties were 720p Xbox vs 900-1080p on PS4
The base consoles *STRUGGLE* with menus in COD: Warzone. It's really something else to see gun camos not loading instantly when testing what they look like.
I feel like this thread is an excellent example at how horrible this place has become. The responses in this thread have just been awful.
I don't have a X1 but I think apart from the launch games and certain frostbite games, everything has been 900p on the X1.
EDIT: I forgot that games like Ark and The Evil Within were at 640p on the X1, the PS4 didn't fare better as well with those games.
See ? This a great post. Instead of laughing at OP for ignoring something, you try to tell to OP why he/she is wrong. Thanks
Fair points re Uncharted. I did actually see what you meant but I kind of used it to launch into my graphics thesis lol.
I think with Naughty Dog games there's always going to be that tension between their declaration of continuing to make cinematic, story driven games and moving gameplay forward in innovative ways. I may be wrong but the scope for really ground-breaking gameplay all seems to be in open world, emergent scenarios, leveraging improvements in AI etc. It's definitely a challenge they're going to have moving forward imo.
As for your comment about comparing graphics yo real life: surely this is an automatic process? I mean, that is the standard by which realistic graphics are measured, isn't it? When people say The Last of Us 2 looks gorgeous, they're not talking about the beauty of some concrete fortification or a decaying multi storey car park. They mean those things look impressively close to their real life counterparts.
The comparison seems unavoidable to me.
Obviously easy for enthusiasts to find shortcomings in OPs technical breakdown, but I will defend him in this; from a marketing standpoint, you're not talking about the immediate and obvious kind of jumps we've seen from SNES to N64 or Playstation to Playstation 2. And I think the larger segment of the consumer gaming world is going to be less wowed by technical specifications than those that post on these forums, even if the improvements are impressive and represent huge leaps.
Those Tflops between PS4 and PS5 are not equal. RDNA2 tflops have like (someone correct me) about 1.5x better performance than PS4's GCN tflops. So the 10.3tflop is like 15tflop with old measurements.
So your initial comparison, which was already flawed (it's closer to a 6x jump than 5x), is actually like a jump of ~8x.
Basically the only thing not having had a huge jump is the RAM.
The whole point devs have been making about the TF number not meaning much keeps flying over people's heads I guess. Plus a mechanical HDD to the fastest SSD of all time is an insane leap.
But the funny thing is that TLOU2 (and other ND games) do not look 'realistic' at all at all to me. They are pretty stylised in the way characters and the environment look; the use of color has more in common with animation than compared to real life. That said, the animation is very realistic. I think this is a great combination they use because it kinda makes them avoid the 'uncanny valley' effect. A game like Detroit: Become Human tries to look realistic regarding its characters and world but looks more 'fake' because of it.
It'll be much more significant than the PS3 to PS4 generation where we've had to settle for notebook CPU's.
I don't know why people are so quick to play down the graphical power of the new machines when all we've seen are mid tier 3rd party games at an Xbox event. We'll know much more when we've seen 1st party titles and games from some of the bigger studios like Rockstar, CDPR, etc.
I don't know why people are so quick to play down the graphical power of the new machines when all we've seen are mid tier 3rd party games at an Xbox event. We'll know much more when we've seen 1st party titles and games from some of the bigger studios like Rockstar, CDPR, etc.
Xbox went from 360, to 1, to not even having a number, so we're actually getting decreases. It's honestly pathetic how much we're being taken for a ride.
I'm not the best at explaining this type of stuff I'm sure someone here could do a much better job but yeah tried my best.
Yeah, SSDs will do the same magic for consoles as it did for PC gaming.
edit: I'd love to be proven wrong here but I have little faith in the next gen being a huge step up from current consoles (especially as we've already have 4K with the Pro/X consoles which otherwise actually would have been a big selling point).
edit: I'd love to be proven wrong here but I have little faith in the next gen being a huge step up from current consoles (especially as we've already have 4K with the Pro/X consoles which otherwise actually would have been a big selling point).
I feel you're not representing them properly by simply looking at multipliers and saying 'it's only x times better'
Xb1/PS4 provides enough TF headroom *above* just drawings polygons, that you started to see interesting reconstruction techniques employed. And things like physically based rendering
ps5/xsx will again provide even more headroom for creative applications of that compute power. UE5 using a hybrid software renderer for example - and I'm sure we'll see devs done up with more new techniques to do more with the power - not just more pixels or more polys
Xb1/PS4 provides enough TF headroom *above* just drawings polygons, that you started to see interesting reconstruction techniques employed. And things like physically based rendering
ps5/xsx will again provide even more headroom for creative applications of that compute power. UE5 using a hybrid software renderer for example - and I'm sure we'll see devs done up with more new techniques to do more with the power - not just more pixels or more polys
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