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Jag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,676
www.theatlantic.com

The Election That Could Break America

If the vote is close, Donald Trump could easily throw the election into chaos and subvert the result. Who will stop him?

This part is particularly terrifying. I'm very, very concerned. They have a roadmap for a legal and constitutional theft of the election. There is absolutely no doubt that they will claim irregularities in voting (because there always are) and then the nightmare scenario happens:

According to sources in the Republican Party at the state and national levels, the Trump campaign is discussing contingency plans to bypass election results and appoint loyal electors in battleground states where Republicans hold the legislative majority. With a justification based on claims of rampant fraud, Trump would ask state legislators to set aside the popular vote and exercise their power to choose a slate of electors directly. The longer Trump succeeds in keeping the vote count in doubt, the more pressure legislators will feel to act before the safe-harbor deadline expires.

The Trump-campaign legal adviser I spoke with told me the push to appoint electors would be framed in terms of protecting the people's will. Once committed to the position that the overtime count has been rigged, the adviser said, state lawmakers will want to judge for themselves what the voters intended.

"The state legislatures will say, 'All right, we've been given this constitutional power. We don't think the results of our own state are accurate, so here's our slate of electors that we think properly reflect the results of our state,' " the adviser said. Democrats, he added, have exposed themselves to this stratagem by creating the conditions for a lengthy overtime.
 
May 26, 2018
24,080
What exactly does Trump think is going to happen if he outright steals the election from the majority of this country? Motherfucker. I LIVE HERE. HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE LIVE HERE.
 
Dec 31, 2017
7,125
"The state legislatures will say, 'All right, we've been given this constitutional power. We don't think the results of our own state are accurate, so here's our slate of electors that we think properly reflect the results of our state,' "


That would be a seriously egregious overreach. I don't know if people are going to be so easily okay with that.
 

heavy liquid

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,425
Best case scenario is that it's a landslide leaving no room for doubt. If it's close at all, it's going to be a shitshow.
 

steejee

Member
Oct 28, 2017
8,711
Know what tells you the people's will? Counting the fucking votes. Inauguration isn't until January, you have the fucking time.

GOP has decided to abandon all pretense of caring about Democracy
 

Dyle

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
30,094
I don't see how even in that doom scenario they get to 270 when they lose WI, MI, and PA, all of which have Democratic governors, and wouldn't pick up any states that Hillary won in 2016. The math doesn't add up.
 

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,371
What exactly does Trump think is going to happen if he outright steals the election from the majority of this country? Motherfucker. I LIVE HERE. HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE LIVE HERE.
This is where I hope our blue governors, reps, and senators are ready to burn this union down. Mass secession, general strikes, no more tax dollars to the federal government. America should no longer function if all social contracts are off.
 

FreezePeach

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,811
Literally the tactic right now is 'We are king! We will steal it' to demoralize as many people as possible.

Literally the thing that ends their bullshit is more people voting in as many states as possible. So yeah, not bothering guarantees their wish.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,485
What exactly does Trump think is going to happen if he outright steals the election from the majority of this country? Motherfucker. I LIVE HERE. HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE LIVE HERE.
Question is what do you expect to happen when he steals the election. Do you think protesters will storm the whitehouse and go gung ho on him?

The guy will just sit out protests as he did with the BLM stuff
 

Version 3.0

Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,283
From what I've read, the GOP doesn't have the numbers to win the election by selecting electors directly. Not quite. They'd just get a bunch of red states they would've won anyway, and not enough beyond that.

But, it's legitimately terrifying how far they're willing to go to cheat. They know that on the one hand, this may be their last chance to seize power, since demographics changes are working against them. And on the other hand, if they can steal this election, then they can steal future elections, cementing their power indefinitely.

I have a sinking feeling that 2020 is going to end with a stolen election. The question is, will we collectively allow it?
 

Apathy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,992
If Biden win, Trump has been pumping his idiot base with false claims of vote tampering by Dems that they'll just believe it's not legitimate.

If Trump wins, we know he's been actively trying to undermine democracy and voting and Biden supporters won't believe the outcome.

It's going to be weird.
 
May 26, 2018
24,080
Question is what do you expect to happen when he steals the election. Do you think protesters will storm the whitehouse and go gung ho on him?

All I know is this country's been living in a state of extreme stress for a while, but the hope, the possibility, of still being able to believe in this American Experiment of ours has kept us going. That things can still change. That we can still change it.
 

krazen

Member
Oct 27, 2017
13,313
Gentrified Brooklyn
But, it's legitimately terrifying how far they're willing to go to cheat. They know that on the one hand, this may be their last chance to seize power, since demographics changes are working against them. And on the other hand, if they can steal this election, then they can steal future elections, cementing their power indefinitely.

Yup. That's what scares me. Usually they lose, re-align their dogwhistles and move on. They seem 100% down with throwing away democracy if they can maintain power, and that's fucking scary. The bigots and big business corruption are kinda normal, at least for these last decades since Reagan. I think as a collective we've accepted shady leaning politics, but this is literally 'Lets go back to a monarchy!' type shit.

This is a whole other beast; to think you have one of two political parties willing to get rid of democracy is a fucking dark thought even if the dems control everything.
 

SquirrelSr

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,039
So the Trump and the GOP have reached the point where they'll assign faithless electors to choose him if they lose the popular vote?
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,752
Norman, OK
This article is a long read- but it's required reading before doing much commenting in here, IMO. It goes beyond the usual scare-mongering we've seen, i.e. - "What if Trump refuses to leave office...dur, dur?" The author here is still speculating at several crucial points, but lays out a pretty clear framework for the types of fuckery we're likely to see from early November through the balance of January.

Bottom line is: Biden needs to win by a very wide margin & Dems need to take control of the Senate back on Jan. 6th, or Trump's simply going to reinstall himself as POTUS with the help of loyalist electors and good old Mitch, regardless of what actually happens with the votes in battleground states.
 
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Jag

Jag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,676
What people don't realize is that this isn't going to be a proclamation from King Trump. He is going to say "There are reports of fraud in several states". He has already said he will never concede. That's it. That's all he has to do. The Republican Party does the rest at the state level with the parrot line of "This is part of our constitutional duty!". All the focus will be on Trump, but behind the scenes the electors will slowly and inexorably slide towards Trump.

This article is a long read- but it's required reading before doing much commenting in here, IMO. It goes beyond the usual scare-mongering we've seen, i.e. - "What if Trump refuses to leave office...dur, dur?" The author here is still speculating at several crucial points, but lays out a pretty clear framework for the types of fuckery we're likely to see from early November through the balance of January.

This is true. I took the quote from the end of a very lengthy article because it's what drew my attention, but the entire thing is worth reading.
 

LegendofJoe

Member
Oct 28, 2017
12,101
Arkansas, USA
The Republican party has morphed into the Neo-confederacy. Just like the Confederacy before it they intend to destroy the United States and build a new nation where they have permanent rule.
 
Oct 25, 2017
4,752
Norman, OK
I don't see how even in that doom scenario they get to 270 when they lose WI, MI, and PA, all of which have Democratic governors, and wouldn't pick up any states that Hillary won in 2016. The math doesn't add up.

Read the entire article. The math may not matter if enough states have conflicting sets of electors certifying differing results. Much will depend upon the Senate.
 

Dark Knight

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,371
Question is what do you expect to happen when he steals the election. Do you think protesters will storm the whitehouse and go gung ho on him?
I expect levels of rioting and violence the likes of which we've never seen in our lives. People are already barely surviving due to finances and covid, and are fucking pissed off at being humiliated and quite frankly taxed without representation. They have nothing left to lose and a sane admin was their only hope at returning to normalcy. I think a blatantly and brazenly stolen election will be the flashpoint for a civil uprising that begins to destroy the country as a functioning unit.
 

game-biz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,743
Even if Trump wins fair and square, there needs to be riots on a scale so great that the senate would have to remove him. It's either we start fucking shit up or we let Trump's admin do it.
 

captive

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,049
Houston
Bottom line is: Biden needs to win by a very wide margin & Dems need to take control of the Senate back on Jan. 6th, or Trump's simply going to reinstall himself as POTUS with the help of loyalist electors and good old Mitch, regardless of what actually happens with the votes in battleground states.
what good is the senate on jan 6th, the electors vote in december.
 
Jan 29, 2018
9,440
What exactly does Trump think is going to happen if he outright steals the election from the majority of this country? Motherfucker. I LIVE HERE. HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF PEOPLE LIVE HERE.
This is where I hope our blue governors, reps, and senators are ready to burn this union down. Mass secession, general strikes, no more tax dollars to the federal government. America should no longer function if all social contracts are off.

I don't exactly have the confidence that people will have the swift reaction necessary to push back against this.

If the result is contested, people will look to see how it shakes out in the courts first, and in that time still have to go to work and carry on while waiting to find out if we need to burn things down or not. In that time people will start to get inured to the weirdness, it will seem less urgent, in-laws will start harping on "you're still coming to Thanksgiving despite the COVID, right?", and people will be faced with the choice of protesting now versus waiting to see how the Dem's appeal goes in court and then protesting.
 

Xando

Member
Oct 28, 2017
27,485
I expect levels of rioting and violence the likes of which we've never seen in our lives. People are already barely surviving due to finances and covid, and are fucking pissed off at being humiliated and quite frankly taxed without representation. They have nothing left to lose and a sane admin was their only hope at returning to normalcy. I think a blatantly and brazenly stolen election will be the flashpoint for a civil uprising that begins to destroy the country as a functioning unit.
You must have more confidence in the american people than me. I think there will be protesting and rioting for a week or two which Trump and the GOP will condemn but nothing happens.

From the experience we have in easten europe such power grabs hinge on security forces. If they don't make clear they won't tolerate such a coup it's over.
 

Zyrokai

Member
Nov 1, 2017
4,274
Columbus, Ohio
Biden really needs to win decisively in a few key states in order for this nightmare to not happen. How are we feeling about PA, MI, WI, and FL's ability to count mail-in ballots early?
 

Apathy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,992
I expect levels of rioting and violence the likes of which we've never seen in our lives. People are already barely surviving due to finances and covid, and are fucking pissed off at being humiliated and quite frankly taxed without representation. They have nothing left to lose and a sane admin was their only hope at returning to normalcy. I think a blatantly and brazenly stolen election will be the flashpoint for a civil uprising that begins to destroy the country as a functioning unit.
Yeah I don't see that happening anymore than the 2nd amendment nutjobs that think in the case of a tyrannical government, them and their guns and their idiot drinking buddies are going to rise up and overthrow the military.

This is more like a wish than what will really happen
 

julian

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,849
It really infuriates me when people dismiss those with concerns of Trump not leaving with, "once he's voted out, that's it!" Multiple people have laid out various ways he can steal the election in great detail, yet posters still get accused of "fear mongering". It's fucking reality! Trump, with the help of the GOP, is trying to steal the election. This has been obvious for months(years?) yet we still have people downplaying how much tougher this will be than simply getting out the vote.
 

dapperbandit

Member
Oct 30, 2017
1,162
It's in everyone's interest that they can win as transparently as possible, without having to postpone the result while trying to manage all the mail ins and absentee ballots. So really unless it's a landslide November could be absolute chaos
 

maxxpower

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,950
California
America will forever be broken. There's too many polar ideologies in this country. Democrats take over and make some changes, then Republicans get the power back and fuck it all up, rinse and repeat. This country will never progress.
 

Brinbe

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
58,961
Terana
trump winning would be seismic in all the worst ways. and it's a very real threat. things are tightening, especially in the battlegrounds. he very well could steal it again.

i foresee mass migration

and even if he loses, there's no putting that 'trump genie' back in its bottle so to speak. all those tens of millions of avid trump supporters aren't going away and i doubt people will forget that those people supported a huge racist idiot.

america is fracturing because it can't admit and own up to its own fractious and deplorable history. and i don't know how you resolve that as is. the sins of slavery, and jim crow never went away. you're having battles in the streets over simply accepting Black people, who've played a demonstrably huge part of building America into what it is/was, as fucking equals. what do you even do with that? This isn't a fringe group, this is MILLIONS OF PEOPLE.

not to mention colonialism, foreign meddling and a whole other wide array of bullshit, but that's for another topic.



this is america
 
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Jag

Jag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,676
It really infuriates me when people dismiss those with concerns of Trump not leaving with, "once he's voted out, that's it!" Multiple people have laid out various ways he can steal the election in great detail, yet posters still get accused of "fear mongering". It's fucking reality! Trump, with the help of the GOP, is trying to steal the election. This has been obvious for months(years?) yet we still have people downplaying how much tougher this will be than simply getting out the vote.

Exactly. The more people vote (correctly!) for Biden, the harder it will be for the Republican Party to steal the election. That's the power the people have right now. Rioting and protesting after the fact is useless. You want to get in the streets? Go volunteer to help the voting process in your town.
 

xenocide

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,307
Vermont
I mean the Supreme Court handles the tie right
So we fucked

Trump will say it's rigged from mail in ballets every minute on Election Day
States certify their results. Almost all the swing states and safe Blue states have SOS's that are Democrats and absolutely will certify their results—good or bad. This is just political/electoral fantasy writing.
 

BFIB

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,743
He's going to try it. He's going to do everything he can and the GOP will not stop him.

This is why we need a landslide like no other, because then he can't dispute it. He will try, but if the victory is overwhelming for Biden, no matter how much complaining he does, the uphill battle is not going to work for him.

We need a massive turnout like no other, it has to happen.