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The Game of Thrones story we almost had: early letters to GRRM's editor show his plan for a trilogy ending in Jon vs Bran vs Daenerys

Pau

Pau

Self-Appointed Godmother of Bruce Wayne's Children
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,861
Pai Pai Master said:
Bran has a major presence in the pilot, but in the long run he was only important there to reveal the Jaime & Cersei relationship. Overall, they cared more about the sexy & controversial stuff than like, the actual story. Bran has a solid arc & presence across the books, and he is barely a character in the show despite becoming the King of Westeros in the end.
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Did you mean to quote someone else? I was referring to the Jon/Arya stuff. :P
 
eebster

eebster

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
1,596
What's with GRRM obsession over incest? Almost like he's playing out his inner fantasies with his books
 
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Lunar Wolf

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
eebster said:
What's with GRRM obsession over incest? Almost like he's playing out his inner fantasies with his books
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No, it's because GRRM is very much a writer from the Romanticism period. He admits to it.

He's the Byronic kind too. That tends to involve heroes committing social taboos. Incest being the most prominent kind and Lord Byron himself (after which Byronic Heroes are named after) used to fuck his half-sister and impregnate her.

Jon Snow is meant to be a Byronic Hero as is Jaime Lannister and Theon to a certain extent.

GRRM: Well who wouldn't want to be Jon Snow — the brooding, Byronic, romantic hero whom all the girls love. Theon [Greyjoy] is the one I'd fear becoming. Theon wants to be Jon Snow, but he can't do it. He keeps making the wrong decisions. He keeps giving into to his own selfish, worst impulses.
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Here's the Byronic Hero:

The Byronic Hero is a type of character popularized by the works of Lord Byron, whose protagonists often embodied this archetype (though they did exist before him). This trope gained prominence during Romanticism. Sometimes an Anti-Hero, others an Anti-Villain, or even Just a Villain, Byronic heroes are charismatic characters with strong passions and ideals, but who are nonetheless deeply flawed individuals who may act in ways which are socially reprehensible because he's definitely contrary to his mainstream society. A Byronic hero is on his own side and has his own set of beliefs which he will not bow nor change for anyone. A Byronic hero is a character whose internal conflicts are heavily romanticized and who himself ponders and wrestles with his struggles and beliefs. Some are portrayed with a suggestion of dark crimes or tragedies in their past.
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The following traits are very characteristic of Byronic heroes and may be helpful in identifying them:
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  • Is usually male (though female examples are not unheard of) and is always considered very attractive physically and in terms of personality, possessing a great deal of magnetism and charisma, using these abilities to achieve social and romantic dominance. One mark against him personality wise, however, is a struggle with his own personal integrity.
  • Is very intelligent, perceptive, sophisticated, educated, cunning and adaptable, but also self-centered.
  • Is emotionally sensitive, which may translate into being emotionally conflicted, bipolar, or moody.
  • Is intensely self-critical and introspective and may be described as dark and brooding. He dwells on the pains or perceived injustices of his life, often to the point of over-indulgence. May muse philosophically on the circumstances that brought him to this point, including personal failings.
  • Is cynical, world-weary, and jaded, often due to a mysterious Dark and Troubled Past, which, if uncovered, may reveal a significant loss, or a crime or mistake committed which still haunts him, or, conversely, that he may be suffering from some unnamed crime against him.
  • He is extremely passionate, with strong personal beliefs which are usually in conflict with the values of the status quo. He sees his own values and passions as above or better than those of others, manifesting as arrogance or a martyr-like attitude. Sometimes, however, he just sees himself as one who must take the long, hard road to do what must be done.
  • His intense drive and determination to live out his philosophy without regard to others' philosophies produce conflict, and may result in a tragic end, should he fail, or revolution, should he succeed. Because of this, he is very rebellious, having a distaste for social institutions and norms and is disrespectful of rank and privilege, though he often has said rank and privilege himself. This rebellion often leads to social isolation, rejection, or exile, or to being treated as an outlaw, but he will not compromise, being unavoidably self-destructive
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Byronic Hero examples: Anakin Skywalker, Jon Snow, Jaime Lannister, The Count of Monte Christo/Edmund Dantes, Elric of Melnibone, Jay Gatsby, Severus Snape, Solid Snake, Vergil from Devil May Cry, Zuko & Jet, Guts from Berserk,, Lelouch Lamperouge, Piccolo, Emia Kiritsugu, Edward Elric, Sesshomaru, Itachi and Sasuke Uchiha etc.
 
WillyFive

WillyFive

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
6,981
Reminds me of reading the Star Wars early drafts that were equally fascinating.

Although I prefer the better character motivations of the final version, I love how the earlier version was more focused and concise, with fewer main characters and clearer narratives.
 
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