it gives you perspective
But equal or greater than? No and you know that.
The idea that Hip-Hop can only truly be experienced by black folks is puzzling to me.
- Thread starter Soapbox Killer
- Start date
But equal or greater than? No and you know that.
Gotcha, thank you for confirming. I don't know you, that's why I ask. If I knew I wouldn't have.
Again, didn't ask about perspective before now.
I just want to find out why people who are not black feel so comfortable entering black spaces and speaking on black issues, with the only background being put forth are hip hop songs and movies? I felt like your post read as good opportunity to learn more.
- I guess my next question would be has any of the hip hop songs you like inspired you learn more about the black experience?
- Has it led to discovering an author or Academic you'd share as quickly as that song you posted?
- Have you picked up on the themes of decentering and or decolonizing from whiteness from Hip Hop and Rap?
- I guess my next question would be has any of the hip hop songs you like inspired you learn more about the black experience? - I only learned what they spit. What they spit I used to shoot down ignorant conversations other white people were having.
- Has it led to discovering an author or Academic you'd share as quickly as that song you posted? Most MC's I listened to growing up were 5% and talking about today's mathematics. I had no idea what any of it meant and researched it to better understand what was being said in the songs. Nothing beyond that.
- Have you picked up on the themes of decentering and or decolonizing from whiteness from Hip Hop and Rap? My apologies but my simple ass has no idea what this means and I don't have time to google what you're asking to give you a honest response. Feel free to talk to me like I'm 5 with that question and I will give a honest answer after this meeting I'm in.
Thank you for responding.
To point three. No free Black labor from me lol.
You can either put the work in to learn yourself (when you have time), find someone else to teach you, or find a conversation in your wheelhouse.
All good I will research, I truly did not mean you or anyone else any disrespect today
Howdy, I feel like I've taken over this thread. Cause I know op isn't coming back.
Anyways, I found this video and I thinks its related. I think black people should be have unequal ownership to their own culture like others.
I feel like this comment from the reddit response thread is a take I agree with.
Thanks for reading my meta thread takeover lol
Anyways, I found this video and I thinks its related. I think black people should be have unequal ownership to their own culture like others.
I feel like this comment from the reddit response thread is a take I agree with.
Thanks for reading my meta thread takeover lol
I'm just going to say...
We can disagree with each other. We can disagree, even vehemently with each other's takes. We're Black folks, and as Black folks...this is what it means to "not be a monolith." It ain't always pretty. We check each other when we have to, but we keep it moving.
The extent to which I checked on this thread and saw someone who has ALWAYS worn their identity as a Black Philadelphian proudly on this board have his identity questioned, repeatedly.
Disappointed doesn't begin to describe it.
We can disagree with each other. We can disagree, even vehemently with each other's takes. We're Black folks, and as Black folks...this is what it means to "not be a monolith." It ain't always pretty. We check each other when we have to, but we keep it moving.
The extent to which I checked on this thread and saw someone who has ALWAYS worn their identity as a Black Philadelphian proudly on this board have his identity questioned, repeatedly.
Disappointed doesn't begin to describe it.
This thread has kind of fucked me up and I feel like I need to say something even if some think it's not my place since I'm a white middle-aged Jewish man. I don't think I have ever presented myself as something different, certainly not black or a big fan of hip hop. I have no idea what that Drake beef is about and I don't really care. All that being said, I had friends that were in the scene, and in college I had friends that started their own events that would promote hip hop, with dance competitions, lectures, all sorts of things. And I was the guy with a camera that was happy to come help out, promote, record and make videos of said events. That eventually led to me covering events all over the US like Madison, LA, Chicago, and Atlanta for about a decade.
So when I read the OP, I didn't know what prompted the question, but I had some idea about what Soapbox Killer was talking about when he described his idea of hip hop, and when he posted the Philly video that confirmed it as I'd been to dozens of places like that. And even if I didn't feel like I always belonged at those places, I always felt welcome. And more times than not there were people there teaching history, giving lessons and just generally having a good time. My friend in college ran an annual event for over a decade which he prided on being inclusive. He actively welcomed other cultures in. He was so proud of bringing over the first Chinese bboy crew to compete in the US and at that same event he had a house set up where an American Indian crew that also came to compete gave talks about their customs, and in another spot was a bgirl giving a history lesson about hip hop when she was growing up in NYC in the 80's.
I don't know where I'm going with this, I just couldn't stay quiet and needed to share some of my feelings. I came in here assuming I'd have nothing to add and I've been left with this great sadness as I witnessed a poster who grew up in this culture that for him fostered love and community posed an honest question that was met with venom and distrust. There didn't seem to be any attempt to even understand what he was talking about. Just assumptions and internet points.
So when I read the OP, I didn't know what prompted the question, but I had some idea about what Soapbox Killer was talking about when he described his idea of hip hop, and when he posted the Philly video that confirmed it as I'd been to dozens of places like that. And even if I didn't feel like I always belonged at those places, I always felt welcome. And more times than not there were people there teaching history, giving lessons and just generally having a good time. My friend in college ran an annual event for over a decade which he prided on being inclusive. He actively welcomed other cultures in. He was so proud of bringing over the first Chinese bboy crew to compete in the US and at that same event he had a house set up where an American Indian crew that also came to compete gave talks about their customs, and in another spot was a bgirl giving a history lesson about hip hop when she was growing up in NYC in the 80's.
I don't know where I'm going with this, I just couldn't stay quiet and needed to share some of my feelings. I came in here assuming I'd have nothing to add and I've been left with this great sadness as I witnessed a poster who grew up in this culture that for him fostered love and community posed an honest question that was met with venom and distrust. There didn't seem to be any attempt to even understand what he was talking about. Just assumptions and internet points.
OP
OP
I will take responsibility for not being as articulate as I needed to be with my point. It was also a mistake to even mention the Drake/Kendrick beef, as all it did was allow the topic to be derailed. It's not even the reason I made the thread, it was just the thing that reminded me of the narrative that I previously heard . THAT'S ON ME. I pride myself on being a lyricist so knowing the right words to choose and how to put them on display is one of the very few things I think I know how to do in this world.
Thread got fucked up. Shit happens, then you flush.
OP
OP
When I talk about "boots on the ground" I mean stuff like this.
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL1X8EwC3o0
(This is just an excuse to post "BARS" I'm not even in this video so I don't violate and self promote)
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xL1X8EwC3o0
(This is just an excuse to post "BARS" I'm not even in this video so I don't violate and self promote)
I don't think it's even weird to think that some hip-hop can only truly be "fully" appreciated by very specific people. It's like, there are lots of Jewish traditions that non Jewish people can be invited to and partake of, but it won't ever be the same as for someone who is Jewish.
It is what it is.
In any case hip-hop is the most popular music type in the world, or close to it, nobody's going to gatekeep it successfully, you have people the world over doing it, from the US, Iran, Taiwan, fewer places without hip-hop than with it. It's global. Doesn't mean everyone can experience it all the same or comment on all matters.
Hip-hop has been a huge part of my life since the late 1980s, and I'm a white dude.
It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back is probably my favorite record of all-time.
It Takes a Nation of Millions to Hold Us Back is probably my favorite record of all-time.
Do you wonder why there is suspicion afoot when it comes to those who try to participate in and claim Black culture, or did you just want to center your feelings as a white dude?
On one level I'm a white privileged guy, and on another I know what it means to be an outcast, an outsider, one who does not "fit in". It was probably this aspect that attracted me to Hip-Hop; the music, the just black rage and concerns, not to mention beautiful poetry. It was also probably the alienation of suburban kids in the '90s that made them attracted to Hip-Hop.
My dad was into punk music, for me Hip-Hop was punk.
My dad was into punk music, for me Hip-Hop was punk.
As much as I love hip-hop music, I've never enjoyed the rap beef side of it. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy a good freestyle battle. But not stuff that could or has led to violence, such as this Drake/Kendrick thing going on. Apparently there was a shooting outside Drake's house recently? Could be unrelated or could even be a hoax for all I know, but who knows!
more likely has something to do with Drake's beef with The Weeknd than his beef with Kendrick
Toronto and Compton are 3,000 miles and a whole country apart. nobody is getting shot or killed because of Kendrick and Drake.
Soap, yesterday reading through this thread made me listen to Capital Punishment by Big Pun. Thanks! I miss Pun!
I don't think anyone is saying you can't enjoy the art of hip-hop, I think the message is that people don't want input, opinions and feelings about certain things from people outside the culture.
I grew up listening to Rap, it was a huge part of my identity as a mixed brown kid growing up in a very white/anglo culture, it gave me and a lot of other kids who were "different" something we could relate to but not fully understand. I grew up around people who lived and breathed hip hop... but I'd never weigh in or share my thoughts on certain topics. Because I'm not Black or American. So when it comes to certain topics that are very much dealing with the Black American experience, no matter how much I think I know about rap, my opinion or feelings on certain things just doesn't matter. But just like the Pusha/Darke thread before, with the Kendrick/Drake thread I am very happy to just enjoy the ride and read other peoples posts in what was another legendary thread.
Also one thing I find interesting is how sensitive people are to certain cultures but treat black culture as if it is free to be taken. Which I think other posters have done a great job explaining much better than I ever could. As people actually get offended when they feel they aren't allowed full access and to share their opinion on every single matter in Hip Hop. Look at DJ Vlads response basically "calling for the manager" as soon as he is asked to mind his own business on the matter.
I grew up listening to Rap, it was a huge part of my identity as a mixed brown kid growing up in a very white/anglo culture, it gave me and a lot of other kids who were "different" something we could relate to but not fully understand. I grew up around people who lived and breathed hip hop... but I'd never weigh in or share my thoughts on certain topics. Because I'm not Black or American. So when it comes to certain topics that are very much dealing with the Black American experience, no matter how much I think I know about rap, my opinion or feelings on certain things just doesn't matter. But just like the Pusha/Darke thread before, with the Kendrick/Drake thread I am very happy to just enjoy the ride and read other peoples posts in what was another legendary thread.
Also one thing I find interesting is how sensitive people are to certain cultures but treat black culture as if it is free to be taken. Which I think other posters have done a great job explaining much better than I ever could. As people actually get offended when they feel they aren't allowed full access and to share their opinion on every single matter in Hip Hop. Look at DJ Vlads response basically "calling for the manager" as soon as he is asked to mind his own business on the matter.
OP
OP
I mean...arguably had the best verse on a track with Nas, Jadakiss, Raekwon and Fat Joe. He was well on his way to one of the greatest ever.
Oh, didn't know he had issues with The Weekend, as well. Drake is keeping busy lately, haha.
Yep. This is my big sticking point. There is no pause, no thought, no reverence for when people deal with Black culture. They just stick their hands in the pie, then when you say "Did you ask first?" they suddenly act like they fucking baked it themselves. Like how dare we lay claim to our own work? That has never been the deal, after all.
DjVlad (fuck him forever) indeed showed the inevitable consequences of letting any and everyone into the culture under a misguided notion of acceptance that we will never legitimately attain until political and economic conditions change in our favor. The moment he was checked on his place within the scene, he defaulted back to whiteness to try and regain his power back. So because people feel entitled to take from us without giving back, as they have for centuries, it will always raise the question of whether or not people are in this for the culture, or they're looking for something to gain?
Are you a Drake, or are you a Kendrick?
OP
OP
not sure if taking a very niche - if even that - view and making it a discussion point on a majority white forum is the best approach, but alas
View: https://streamable.com/1zbao2
View: https://streamable.com/1zbao2
Dude! That line was so smooth! I had to play some Tribe!
See! This is what I am talking about with your awesome posts! Fuck DJVlad! He has made a career of exploiting Black people. Not just not rappers.
OP
OP
Is this whole interview available?
Pretty sure that is Gene Hackman in Heist 2001. Great movie!
Just stumbled upon this thread so here's my two cents, as a white hip hop fan from Croatia whose life was literally changed for the better by hip hop music.
I'll keep it short - you can't love the culture without respecting the people. I think white people ARE guests in hip hop, but I don't think there is anything bad about that, as long as you show respect and try to understand every aspect of it.
Many times I've seen white folks be dismissive of new-ish hip hop music, claiming what is or what is not real hip hop. I think that's a bad look and there is a lot of white hip hop fans who are extremely irritating.
I think more people should be respectful of the evolution of hip hop music and try to understam
nd where it's coming from, not just the changes in sound, but also in lyrical themes. This is something many white hip hop fans don't do.
Asap Yams (RIP) once infamously tweeted:
View: https://x.com/ASAPYams/status/192032203788660739
And I totally get what he means.
White hip hop fans often have this weird mentality, I can't call it anything else but "slaveowner" mentality, where they go and place hip hop artists in boxes that suit them, "oh these are good black guys, and these are bad ones" and to me that just feels awful.
Dunno, at the end of the day I really think it's all about showing respect and trying to understand every aspect of the music, even if the sound or topic doesn't suit you.
Like, I can't stand when Anthony Fantano reviews hip hop music because you can see how he lacks the context and understanding for a lot of stuff, especially when it comes to UK music.
I saw his video where he was commenting on a list of top 10 hip hop beats and he was going crazy because It's All About the Benjamins and Still Tippin' were there and how a Madlib beat should have been there and how those two beats were "overrated". Now, let's forget about what Puff did for a sec, he's a piece of shit etc etc, but those two beats are so iconic and important, it's such an insanely disrespectful thing to say, coming from a white guy.
I'll keep it short - you can't love the culture without respecting the people. I think white people ARE guests in hip hop, but I don't think there is anything bad about that, as long as you show respect and try to understand every aspect of it.
Many times I've seen white folks be dismissive of new-ish hip hop music, claiming what is or what is not real hip hop. I think that's a bad look and there is a lot of white hip hop fans who are extremely irritating.
I think more people should be respectful of the evolution of hip hop music and try to understam
nd where it's coming from, not just the changes in sound, but also in lyrical themes. This is something many white hip hop fans don't do.
Asap Yams (RIP) once infamously tweeted:
View: https://x.com/ASAPYams/status/192032203788660739
And I totally get what he means.
White hip hop fans often have this weird mentality, I can't call it anything else but "slaveowner" mentality, where they go and place hip hop artists in boxes that suit them, "oh these are good black guys, and these are bad ones" and to me that just feels awful.
Dunno, at the end of the day I really think it's all about showing respect and trying to understand every aspect of the music, even if the sound or topic doesn't suit you.
Like, I can't stand when Anthony Fantano reviews hip hop music because you can see how he lacks the context and understanding for a lot of stuff, especially when it comes to UK music.
I saw his video where he was commenting on a list of top 10 hip hop beats and he was going crazy because It's All About the Benjamins and Still Tippin' were there and how a Madlib beat should have been there and how those two beats were "overrated". Now, let's forget about what Puff did for a sec, he's a piece of shit etc etc, but those two beats are so iconic and important, it's such an insanely disrespectful thing to say, coming from a white guy.