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Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
53,423
Muscle deformation seems to be largely down to attention to detail and rigging on the animator's part, rather than hardware grunt. Sure, you need a pretty high polycount in the joints to make the deformations look good, but it's not as far fetched as the hair rendering seen in Uncharted 4's E3 2016 teaser. As for lighting, it could be down to dark conditions lit by a single light source putting the visuals under ideal conditions. Not seeing anything that would be too demanding on PS4 hardware. Unless ND significantly updated their rendering pipeline, global illumination is most likely still baked with light probes anyway. Model quality, yeah, I'll give you that. The subsurface scattering seems top notch, almost too good to be true, but we'll see. I think in cutscenes, the game will look this good, but certainly not in gameplay, just like any real time render, really.
You'd definitely need a very high polycount to get this sort of quality. And that quality is consistent across all four of the hero characters. It wasn't just the face either but even the hands. Again I'm thinking the art direction will be 100% spot on, but rendering wise there will be a noticeable lose of all the nitty gritty details that set the trailer apart.

Yeah, Sony's use of tech at the moment is pretty amazing. There's no way TLoU 2 or SotC Remake or LL should look as good as they do on 2013 hardware that wasn't at the cutting edge at time of launch (in reference to PC competition).


Just shows what good art, genius programming design does.
SOTC has the added benefit of being completely empty aside from the colossi.
 

Silencerx98

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,289
You'd definitely need a very high polycount to get this sort of quality. And that quality is consistent across all four of the hero characters. It wasn't just the face either but even the hands. Again I'm thinking the art direction will be 100% spot on, but rendering wise there will be a noticeable lose of all the nitty gritty details that set the trailer apart.
No doubt, I meant relative to Nate's model in the E3 2016 teaser, which was the initial point of comparison. That hair rendering technique can use 4 to 8 quads per spline with a total of anywhere from 10000 to 30000 splines on a character, bringing the total polycount for hair alone equal to an entire current gen main character model! So, yes, my point was while the muscle deformation in the TLOU2 trailer would require a ridiculously high polycount, it would still be far lower than the Uncharted 4 teaser. In fact, I'd say a bump upwards to 120K or so from 90K in the final version of Uncharted 4 is very likely. In any case, I'm not saying this is definitely, without a doubt, possible on PS4 hardware, but it's a lot more believable than the UC4 teaser. I'd like to believe ND learnt their lesson and actually put out a real time showcase this time given their pedigree.
 

Sign

Member
Oct 31, 2017
425
Things like this are probably why devs are so secretive about the development process.

You could also argue that articles and interpretations like this are common because devs are so secretive. If details about the development process were more widely known and discussed it would be harder to misinterpret his answers.
 

Ricky_R

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,997
Yeah, that was a dumb thread.

Anyway, glad this got bumped because it encouraged me to watch the footage again.

Neil's direction is so awesome.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,628
You could also argue that articles and interpretations like this are common because devs are so secretive. If details about the development process were more widely known and discussed it would be harder to misinterpret his answers.
We know so much about game development, from AAA to hundreds of indie games. Between hours upon hours of GDC talks, indie game devlogs, documentaries and behind-the-scene features of development of AAA games, and more, not knowing about the specific development of a single game doesn't mean we don't know how game development is or can't make reasonable judgements based on past knowledge, just like we can about the production of movies and shows.

Remember the reaction to the early Darksiders 3 gameplay? Or other leaked alpha/early development footage of AAA games?
 
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SolidSnakex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,449
You could also argue that articles and interpretations like this are common because devs are so secretive. If details about the development process were more widely known and discussed it would be harder to misinterpret his answers.

That's what makes the entire article questionable. Because it's actually taken out of context. For example this isn't said in one go

We've got this slither of five minutes, now how do you make that into tens of hours of experience to look and feel that visceral, that kind of intensity? People don't see that the rest of it – at different stages – is a broken mess."

After Neil talks about getting the entire game to match that intensity, Ted jumps in and says

Yeah, that's a great point. We run into the same problem, right? The world sees something that looks like it is game of the year in that five minutes and the rest of you and the team are thinking "Okay, now we've got another 20 hours to make and bring up to that quality."

That's when Neil adds on the "broken mess" part. But they also cut that comment short because he continues with this

And we've had that with every game. I remember when we showed the Uncharted 2 demo with the collapsing building and we got the great reaction we did. And then we were like "Oh my god, how are we going to make the rest of the game like this?".
 
Nov 2, 2017
3,723
The wait for this will be impossible. TLOU/Left Behind were transformative experiences for me and it's literally the only video game I have any anticipation for that's not a fighting game. Please let this release sooner rather than later.
 

Sign

Member
Oct 31, 2017
425

Sorry, I guess I didn't make my position very clear in my first post. I agree that the article is poorly written and could very easily argued (but not guaranteed) that the author was willfully misinterpreting Neil in order to write a sensationlised piece for views/clicks. I was just positing a counter point to zsynqx's because I believe that the general knowledge level of many people in game's media as well as the fandom is woefully low. Even with all the resources out there as mentioned by More_Badass a lot of people just don't seem to understand what goes into just getting a game out the door. I would actually include myself in that group and I have actually watched some GDC talks and documentaries and would only consider my knowledge about the process to be surface level.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,628
Sorry, I guess I didn't make my position very clear in my first post. I agree that the article is poorly written and could very easily argued (but not guaranteed) that the author was willfully misinterpreting Neil in order to write a sensationlised piece for views/clicks. I was just positing a counter point to zsynqx's because I believe that the general knowledge level of many people in game's media as well as the fandom is woefully low. Even with all the resources out there as mentioned by More_Badass a lot of people just don't seem to understand what goes into just getting a game out the door. I would actually include myself in that group and I have actually watched some GDC talks and documentaries and would only consider my knowledge about the process to be surface level.
Have you followed any game devlogs on TIGSource? I don't think any has quite matched Rain World; the developer's posts are very detailed, and allow you to see a game developer barely a concept beyond "Movement prototype", to how animations and AI is developed and iterated on, to level design, to thinking about logo designs, to planning a Kickstarter, as well as the long and technical process of learning how Unity works and rebuilding a game that was made in an old outdated engine in Unity
https://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=25183.0

I'd also recommend checking out Tom Francis' Youtube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCQ-twzO6v-PBgckhkrXVaDQ
I haven't seen a dev better than Francis at explaining the nuances and intricacies of game design decisions in easy-to-grasp layman terms
His blog as well: http://www.pentadact.com
 

Chris Metal

Avatar Master Painter
Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,585
United Kingdom
How to take something way out of context...
latest


In terms of how TLOU:P2 looks, I feel the art direction has a lot to do with it. TLOU with its slightly more realistic palette of colour and lighting with less saturation/contrast, when shown was very appealing and stunned me more. TLOU:P2 just takes this to another level. U4/TLL both wowed me but their art direction is trying to achieve something different, slightly fantastical/more colourful. With TLOU:P2 gunning for more realism, it just wows me more if they get it right. Of course TLOU was a late title right at the end of PS3's life cycle, but purely from aesthetic pov, TLOU was more appealing that U3, discounting the technical advancement.