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The Law School and Lawyer ERA

Jag

Jag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,675
This is a place for ERA lawyers, prospective lawyers or just law-curious people to chat.

Have a questions about law school, the practice of law or the bar exam? ERA's helpful law team is here to help.

Disclaimer (because of course we need one of these)
Please don't ask any legal questions here or PM ERA members without them first offering. We don't want to give out legal advice and frankly you should never take legal advice from internet peoples.
 
OP
OP
Jag

Jag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,675
Figure I could post law stories here too.

The suspect told police 'give me a lawyer dog.' The court says he wasn't asking for a lawyer.

When a friend says, "I'll hit you up later dog," he is stating that he will call again sometime. He is not calling the person a "later dog."

But that's not how the courts in Louisiana see it. And when a suspect in an interrogation told detectives to "just give me a lawyer dog," the Louisiana Supreme Court ruled that the suspect was, in fact, asking for a "lawyer dog," and not invoking his constitutional right to counsel. It's not clear how many lawyer dogs there are in Louisiana, and whether any would have been available to represent the human suspect in this case, other than to give the standard admonition in such circumstances to simply stop talking.
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A fucking Lawyer Dog. Really? This was upheld by the Louisiana Supreme Court. Just showed how rigged the system is all the way to the top.
 
OP
OP
Jag

Jag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,675


Southpaw on Twitter redlined Judge Moore's lawyer's horrific demand letter and it is priceless.

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Zvonimir Boban

Zvonimir Boban

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,523
The only way that would have been better is if Southpaw put a shitty grade at the end. The has/have and my/our type mistakes are really annoying me. Come the fuck on, that's basic English language and you are getting paid to write this nonsense.

In UK news, there were a couple of big judgements handed down in UK employment rights cases last week. Uber lost their appeal against the original ruling that their drivers are self-employed and the Employment Appeal Tribunal confirmed that drivers are workers entitled to the minimum wage and holiday pay. Uber, unsurprisingly, are saying they'll fight all the way to the Supreme Court.

Then a couple of days ago, the fast food bicycle/motorbike courier company Deliveroo won their case and successfully argued that their riders aren't entitled to worker's rights. I skimmed over the judgement very, very briefly but the long and short of it is that the riders aren't workers because they are able to sub-contract deliveries out to substitutes and Deliveroo don't oversee that practice at all.

78. A few, if that, Riders use substitutes. In a survey of Riders with CKT Ops codes in April/May 2017 conducted by Deliveroo 14 of the 65 Riders who answered the question had either themselves used a substitute or knew of other Riders who did. A Rider might, for example, allow a friend (who is not a Rider) to use their App while they are on holiday, and since Deliveroo is not currently taking on new Riders in CKT, the friend would not otherwise be able to do so. All that is required is for either the substitute to download the App onto her or his own phone or the Rider lend their device to their substitute. Either way, the substitute would need to be privy to the Rider's Deliveroo password. The confidentiality clause in the New Agreement provides for the substitute to be told the password, but the Rider is responsible for the substitute maintaining confidence. The Rider is paid for any deliveries made by the substitute, and Deliveroo will not be aware of the identity of the substitute, or the fact that one has been used on any particular occasion. How and if the substitute is remunerated by the Rider is between the Rider and the substitute.
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Senator Toadstool

Senator Toadstool

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,651
As anyone had any experience with Law School interviews that might me able to answer a PM. A T14 school just reached out for an interview online and am nervous as fuck.
 
MONSTER

MONSTER

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,522
Oh yay! Didn't know this thread existed... shame it's not as active as it could be :/

Well I'll introduce myself, I am in England on my second year of my law degree. Tort law is really interesting and I find it quite fun! Land law is a nightmare just saying
 
SolicitorPirate

SolicitorPirate

Banned
Nov 3, 2017
2,223
Off memory, the lawyer thread on gaf was pretty active. Not sure why this one is so quiet.

Anyway hi, I've got a law degree, but I work in public policy and have never practiced
 
Senator Toadstool

Senator Toadstool

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,651
RumbleHumble said:
It's not too late to get out and go to trade/nursing school!
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Hahaha I like it

It's just everybody was right when they tell you how much work it is and how much different it is.

So far I do feel it's one of the most rewarding, have grown and learned more in 1 month than all 4 years of undergrad.
 
RumbleHumble

RumbleHumble

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,128
Senator Toadstool said:
Hahaha I like it

It's just everybody was right when they tell you how much work it is and how much different it is.

So far I do feel it's one of the most rewarding, have grown and learned more in 1 month than all 4 years of undergrad.
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So long as you're happy and feeling rewarded, that's the big thing. For some, it comes right away. For others, it takes actual practice before you really start understanding the importance of what you're studying. Good luck over there!
 
The Outsider

The Outsider

Member
Oct 26, 2017
104
Philadelphia, PA
Senator Toadstool said:
lol i know nobody posts here but I'm a 1L and hate my life now
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Senator Toadstool said:
Hahaha I like it

It's just everybody was right when they tell you how much work it is and how much different it is.

So far I do feel it's one of the most rewarding, have grown and learned more in 1 month than all 4 years of undergrad.
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Fellow 1L here. Not hating my life, I'm actually finding it refreshing how law school feels like a full-time job. Undergrad never felt that way to me (but maybe I was doing things wrong).

Granted, it doesn't leave as much time for playing Spider-Man as I'm used to, but I'm striking a decent balance between work and play so far.
 

meow

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,094
NYC
I'm several years out of law school and I think I can safely say that I use next to none of what I learned in school. Maybe I picked up the correct skills or something because it isn't the actual material.
 
Senator Toadstool

Senator Toadstool

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,651
The Outsider said:
Fellow 1L here. Not hating my life, I'm actually finding it refreshing how law school feels like a full-time job. Undergrad never felt that way to me (but maybe I was doing things wrong).

Granted, it doesn't leave as much time for playing Spider-Man as I'm used to, but I'm striking a decent balance between work and play so far.
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I was working for a few years so there's less time commitment. But more pressure. Work wasn't about beating the curve. And Legal Writing is tougher than I thought.

We had our first "writing assignment" that was pretty much an exam question, for a substantive law class that I think I did really well on when most of my classmates didn't even do it because it was "optional"
 
Senator Toadstool

Senator Toadstool

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,651
meow said:
I'm several years out of law school and I think I can safely say that I use next to none of what I learned in school. Maybe I picked up the correct skills or something because it isn't the actual material.
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TBH the biggest class seems to be legal research and how to use westlaw and lexis
 
Senator Toadstool

Senator Toadstool

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
16,651
MIMIC

MIMIC

Member
Dec 18, 2017
8,338
I was lead attorney for the first time on a case on Thursday. I was joking with my boss that when I made my objections, I would first bang on the table and scream "OBJECTION" as loud as I could, lol. But making objections for the first time was pretty cool. I had to object to relevance at least 5 or 10 different times. And right out the gate, I had a leading objection that was sustained :) I totally goofed up when the witness didn't remember this tiny detail (because I wanted it to be a perfect direct examination), but whatever. Nothing fatal.

I thought it went well (as well as my supervisor). Can't wait to do another one.
 
ZackieChan

ZackieChan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,056
Video game/board game lawyer here. Solo practice for nearly 5 years.

meow said:
I'm several years out of law school and I think I can safely say that I use next to none of what I learned in school. Maybe I picked up the correct skills or something because it isn't the actual material.
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This is completely true, and really sad, actually.
 
Lunar Wolf

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
If I'm happy making 30-40 k a year through lawyering, won't have debt coming out of law school and will have side-income, could being a part-time lawyer work out for me?

I don't really want to to work so hard where work becomes my entire life.
 
OP
OP
Jag

Jag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,675
SolicitorPirate said:
Off memory, the lawyer thread on gaf was pretty active. Not sure why this one is so quiet.
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Maybe we can make it an official OP or Hangout? Not sure how that goes. I've been a US lawyer for almost 25 years, both in-house and at firms, so more than happy to answer career related questions if I can.

The Gunslinger said:
If I'm happy making 30-40 k a year through lawyering, won't have debt coming out of law school and will have side-income, could being a part-time lawyer work out for me?

I don't really want to to work so hard where work becomes my entire life.
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Depends if you have the skill set. You can always do temp doc review or contract work. No idea how much it pays in your area. Best bet is to call a temp recruiter or scan the legal ads to see what the pay ranges are.
 
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Vish

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,184
I actually regret not becoming a lawyer (my first career choice/instinct), can't I just re-do life? My college-age lawyer friend seem to really like it.
 
Airing of Grievances

Airing of Grievances

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,190
How long did most of you spend preparing for the LSAT and bar exam? I'm trying to get an idea of what adequate preparation for those two very different points in the beginning and end of the academic legal journey is like.
 
Addie

Addie

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,749
DFW
The Gunslinger said:
If I'm happy making 30-40 k a year through lawyering, won't have debt coming out of law school and will have side-income, could being a part-time lawyer work out for me?

I don't really want to to work so hard where work becomes my entire life.
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What exactly do you want to do with the other "part" of your time?

There are certainly ways to use skills on a part-time basis, but I'm just struggling to understand why you'd want to spend 3 years of your life to commit yourself to doing what would amount to tedious doc review work that's increasingly getting replaced by computer software.

You could also make 30-40k doing public interest work, but that would require you to actually work hard.

Airing of Grievances said:
How long did most of you spend preparing for the LSAT and bar exam? I'm trying to get an idea of what adequate preparation for those two very different points in the beginning and end of the academic legal journey is like.
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I didn't prepare for the LSAT. I probably should've.

For the bar exam? I did the standard BarBri prep, and I think I attended most of the courses. I didn't do any practice tests. I didn't stress about it. Actually, I was auditing other courses at the local college for the hell of it while preparing for the bar. I got in two semesters of Arabic during BarBri summer camp. Pennsylvania, if it matters.

Ultimately, the bar exam was cake, and my friends and I competed to see who would score the highest, but I've always been a good test taker.
 
Airing of Grievances

Airing of Grievances

Member
Oct 30, 2017
4,190
Addie said:
I didn't prepare for the LSAT. I probably should've.

For the bar exam? I did the standard BarBri prep, and I think I attended most of the courses. I didn't do any practice tests. I didn't stress about it. Actually, I was auditing other courses at the local college for the hell of it while preparing for the bar. I got in two semesters of Arabic during BarBri summer camp. Pennsylvania, if it matters.

Ultimately, the bar exam was cake, and my friends and I competed to see who would score the highest, but I've always been a good test taker.
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I've seen anywhere from 2 to 6 months for the LSAT.
 
Addie

Addie

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,749
DFW
meow said:
I'm several years out of law school and I think I can safely say that I use next to none of what I learned in school. Maybe I picked up the correct skills or something because it isn't the actual material.
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The most important thing I did in law school was (and I say this without a hint of irony) spend time socializing and dating. That, and I learned how to properly research and source my writing.

Nothing in class mattered. Conversely, my LL.M. in National Security Law was fantastic, and I did learn a lot in those classes.
 
ZackieChan

ZackieChan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,056
The Gunslinger said:
If I'm happy making 30-40 k a year through lawyering, won't have debt coming out of law school and will have side-income, could being a part-time lawyer work out for me?

I don't really want to to work so hard where work becomes my entire life.
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Do what I did, then. Find a niche to open a solo practice around, and work as much as you want.
 
spootime

spootime

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
3,432
Airing of Grievances said:
How long did most of you spend preparing for the LSAT and bar exam? I'm trying to get an idea of what adequate preparation for those two very different points in the beginning and end of the academic legal journey is like.
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I did pretty well on the LSAT and tutored it through law school. I think two months of part time studying is sufficient to do very well.
 

Deleted member 12224

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,113
Airing of Grievances said:
How long did most of you spend preparing for the LSAT and bar exam? I'm trying to get an idea of what adequate preparation for those two very different points in the beginning and end of the academic legal journey is like.
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Three months. Within 1.5 months I was at the score I had, and it was a matter of perfecting technique and ensuring consistency.

I then bombed the LSAT the first time lmao. I encountered a game type I'd never seen before and I must've went on tilt because my scoring for the sections thereafter was atrocious.

Took it again the next time it was offered and scored a tie with my highest in practice.

There's a very very big gap between 159 and 173.
 

irishsoccermbw

Member
Oct 28, 2017
452
cagey said:
Three months. Within 1.5 months I was at the score I had, and it was a matter of perfecting technique and ensuring consistency.

I then bombed the LSAT the first time lmao. I encountered a game type I'd never seen before and I must've went on tilt because my scoring for the sections thereafter was atrocious.

Took it again the next time it was offered and scored a tie with my highest in practice.

There's a very very big gap between 159 and 173.
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The difference between 159 and 173 is the cost of going to law school if you're looking at a state school. I got a 158 on my first practice LSAT, spent the $1k on a Kaplan class, and ended up with a 171. I went to law school at a top rated state school on a full ride. Taking the time to prep for the LSAT was probably the best decision I've ever made.
 

Deleted member 12224

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
6,113
irishsoccermbw said:
The difference between 159 and 173 is the cost of going to law school if you're looking at a state school. I got a 158 on my first practice LSAT, spent the $1k on a Kaplan class, and ended up with a 171. I went to law school at a top rated state school on a full ride. Taking the time to prep for the LSAT was probably the best decision I've ever made.
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Yep. It's also the difference between paying sticker price at the very top schools versus sticker at the 40+ range.

Pay for the course and treat LSAT prep like it's your job.
 
BossAttack

BossAttack

Member
Oct 27, 2017
43,051
Law school doesn't teach you how to be a lawyer, it teaches you how to think like one. This is also why it makes no sense for it to be three years in the U.S., by your first year you get it, the second year you completely understand. The final year is just a waste of money.
 
Lunar Wolf

Lunar Wolf

Banned
Nov 6, 2017
16,237
Los Angeles
Addie said:
What exactly do you want to do with the other "part" of your time?

There are certainly ways to use skills on a part-time basis, but I'm just struggling to understand why you'd want to spend 3 years of your life to commit yourself to doing what would amount to tedious doc review work that's increasingly getting replaced by computer software.

You could also make 30-40k doing public interest work, but that would require you to actually work hard.
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I was thinking of potentially going the solo practioner route. I'm fine with not making any money for a bit until I build a customer base. My father's radio station program can give me some free advertisement too.

My side income gives me 60-70 k a year anyways so the ideal for me is to work 30 hours a week as a lawyer

The other part of my time, I would prefer to enjoy life and have free time to do what I want like learn piano or read a book.
 
ZackieChan

ZackieChan

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
8,056
The Gunslinger said:
What was your niche? Any other niche areas to look into?
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Video games and board games.
I suggest taking something you're interested in or are good at, and figuring out the specific type of client you can serve with that. Do some research and see if there seems to be a market for your services in that niche. Is there some competition already? That's good, as long as it's not too much. Some competitors means that there's money to be made there. But you don't want it to be oversaturated.
Feel free to PM me. I'd actually like to talk to you about this if you're serious about it. Going to be blogging and creating courses to help others with this same problem.
 
OP
OP
Jag

Jag

Member
Oct 26, 2017
11,675
cagey said:
Yep. It's also the difference between paying sticker price at the very top schools versus sticker at the 40+ range.

Pay for the course and treat LSAT prep like it's your job.
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Absolutely. I went to a shitty college but studied like hell on the LSAT and ended up at a decent law school. Worth the investment of time and money to do well.

Someone also asked about the bar exam. Unless you are taking it soon, don't give any thought. Take a prep class when they start and treat the Bar exam like a job. I even worked while studying (those loans). You only need to pass, you don't need an A. Lots of people I knew overprepared for it. Just make sure you do what the prep class tells you (mostly practice tests). Hell when I moved from NYC to FL I had to take my 3rd state bar exam 8 years after I took the last one. I took the same prep class again and passed fine.
 
MIMIC

MIMIC

Member
Dec 18, 2017
8,338
Airing of Grievances said:
How long did most of you spend preparing for the LSAT and bar exam? I'm trying to get an idea of what adequate preparation for those two very different points in the beginning and end of the academic legal journey is like.
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I probably should have spent wayyyy more time preparing for the LSAT. It was so long ago, but I just remember using course book that I bought online.

Bar exam? I used the Barbri prep course and treated it like a full-time job.

If you haven't taken the LSAT yet, I wouldn't worry about the bar just yet. You might want to start saving up for it though because it's hella expensive (it's around 3.5 or 4K, IIRC). There are cheaper ones (Kaplan and Themis), but I'd say that it was worth the investment.
 
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