Wat
Like, I think the level design of Kingdom Hearts 1 is okay and way better than Kingdom Hearts 2 but... Wat.
Did you even play through shit like Deep Jungle or Monstro. Those hippos still make me want to tear my hair out.
The leap from KH2's level design to KH3's level design is probably the biggest level design leap possible.
- Thread starter ItWasMeantToBe19
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Like, I think the level design of Kingdom Hearts 1 is okay and way better than Kingdom Hearts 2 but... Wat.
Did you even play through shit like Deep Jungle or Monstro. Those hippos still make me want to tear my hair out.
KH3's level design is just fantastic in comparison to past games in the series. There are actual multiple routes and reasons to explore. Exploring in a Kingdom Hearts game! I can;t believe I wrote that. The Carribean is fantastic in that regard. So many cool optional things for you to discover.
Monstro isn't that bad. It's maze like, but the way to your next objective is sign posted really well. Depp Jungle is garbage though.
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I particularly enjoyed the PotC world and I was really surprised that I could leave my ship behind and just fly out to the ocean, if this was RDR2 it would tell me I failed and send me back.
I think the Frozen world and Monstropolis are the weakest, basically KH2 worlds but way bigger. Big Hero 6's World is fun to mess around in but it's just a big ass square.
I think the Frozen world and Monstropolis are the weakest, basically KH2 worlds but way bigger. Big Hero 6's World is fun to mess around in but it's just a big ass square.
I wholeheartedly agree, and this is evidenced in the highly beloved Cavern of Remembrance of KH2FM, if that area was in KH1 it would not look out of place whatsoever. It's only beloved because it has KH1 level design with KH2 gameplay.
It's still not great. Less obnoxious than past games and prettier. But nothing that deserves much praise. So far the only part that felt like much thought was put into it was the weird detour you take in the frozen world.
It's a mixed bag, really. Some of the worlds aren't great - Monstroplis is pretty much an overlong KH2 world, while Arendelle is just boring - while others - San Fransokyo, the Caribbean - are perhaps too big, and in dire need of a better map system.
Everything still feels very static in KH3 — like the size of the levels is impressive, but what you're doing in each level feels completely disconnected from the space. It's kind of hard to articulate. The scale feels so wrong.
I disagree, Kingdom Hearts 1 had 3D platformer style level design. You could find stuff you'd need new powers to get to, and when you came back to levels later there was more to do in them. Everything after that though, yeah. Pretty horrible.
Funny how many "lol it was a PS2 game OP!" posts can be read here.
On PS2, I played MGS2, MGS3, Ratchet & Clank 2-3, Jak 1-2, Silent Hill 2, RE4, SOTC, Ico, GTA SA, Sly 1-2, GOW 1-2 and so many other fantastically designed games. KH2's level design was terrible back then too. -_-
On PS2, I played MGS2, MGS3, Ratchet & Clank 2-3, Jak 1-2, Silent Hill 2, RE4, SOTC, Ico, GTA SA, Sly 1-2, GOW 1-2 and so many other fantastically designed games. KH2's level design was terrible back then too. -_-
Actually I watched someone streaming KHIII and seeing those giant empty spaces told me that square enix game design hasn't come very far, and here you are excited about it!
KH2 was really bad even for its time tbh, also they improved bcause they had dozens of KH games in between.
Handegg !
Yeah, what's up with all this ps2 vs ps4 stuff? We've had good and bad level design since as long as level design has been a thing. KH2's was pretty bad when it first came out and is pretty bad now. And KH3's is pretty average now and will be pretty average in the future. The teams working on these games either don't prioritize it or are just not very good at it.
Whats the problem about this? Thats like, the Kingdom Hearts thing, everybody was excited to see Tangled and Toy Story included even Nomura, who is a big fan of Frozen , seriously it has been many years since KH2 the change in focus from 2D animated movies to 3D CG was natural. Story in KH has its own world
The jumps for Wolfenstein, Kid Icarus, and Metroid we're also huge...
I don't get this OP. Lots of games/series significantly update after 20 years.
I don't get this OP. Lots of games/series significantly update after 20 years.
Overall yes, it's an improvement. I think they particularly chose Pirates of the Carribean again to show the differences in the scope of the levels compared to KH2's. That said, there are levels that I really dislike, Monster inc and Frozen ones both sucked. Big Hero 6 was mediocre. Best is Toy Story. Not gonna lie, playing through Frozen level made me wish so much that I was on linear paths instead.
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Though I think the level design is overall superior to KH2, I don't fully enjoy exploring the levels, except Caribbean. Why? The lack of a full map that shows how all areas are connected and your relative position really hampers my enjoyment and incentive to explore. I have pretty bad sense of direction and I felt like I waste too much time wandering around heading nowhere, and because the maps are massive, it becomes really tedious to seek out hidden items and collectables. Carribean is cool because they actually give you an overview map of the world. Annoys me to no end that they only give us a small minimap in worlds that are that big.
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Though I think the level design is overall superior to KH2, I don't fully enjoy exploring the levels, except Caribbean. Why? The lack of a full map that shows how all areas are connected and your relative position really hampers my enjoyment and incentive to explore. I have pretty bad sense of direction and I felt like I waste too much time wandering around heading nowhere, and because the maps are massive, it becomes really tedious to seek out hidden items and collectables. Carribean is cool because they actually give you an overview map of the world. Annoys me to no end that they only give us a small minimap in worlds that are that big.
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Deep Jungle I understand the frustrations since it's a platforming focus world while Sora doesn't have much in the way of movement options and there's tons of backtracking, but I applaud the creativity of having a level based on platforming following Wonderland and Olympus and you really never got that variety again after KH1.
And Monstro is straight up just a good level. Apart from how well it ties into the greater lore that KHI was setting up, Monstro is chaotic fun with that carnival OST blaring in the background as you explore the depths.
I've never gotten lost in Monstro unless I was hunting for the Trinity marks but if you're only going in for the story then the only obtuse part is when the chest for High Jump suddenly spawns back at the opening area.
Don't hate me because I'm beautiful and right.
Six times now, yes.
Exactly. Cavern of Remembrance showed the team still had the chops to make great level designs but they threw the baby out with the bathwater in KHII. Imagine a game where the level design was as expanded upon as the combat was.
Not really OP. It's still extremely limited with 80% thin corridors.
Everything literally feels like an aged, 10 year old game with actual graphics, like they really build this directly after 2.
Specially when it has the same design problems like 2, which they already eliminated in later handheld titles, but brought back to this game for some reason, like the map that you have to find in each world. What's the point of that when they give you the chest with the map at the start of each level at the first save point or earlier. Sometimes you can see the chest with it in the very first cutscene, it's so pointless. And then you only have a minimap, no big map to open. In DDD, you could open the full map but here not, like it really is a direct 2 sequel from 10 years ago.
So no, the gap isn't actually that big. Technically, yes, but not design wise. Specially in comparison to other games today.
Everything literally feels like an aged, 10 year old game with actual graphics, like they really build this directly after 2.
Specially when it has the same design problems like 2, which they already eliminated in later handheld titles, but brought back to this game for some reason, like the map that you have to find in each world. What's the point of that when they give you the chest with the map at the start of each level at the first save point or earlier. Sometimes you can see the chest with it in the very first cutscene, it's so pointless. And then you only have a minimap, no big map to open. In DDD, you could open the full map but here not, like it really is a direct 2 sequel from 10 years ago.
So no, the gap isn't actually that big. Technically, yes, but not design wise. Specially in comparison to other games today.
I mean, KH2 is even worse than KH1. KH2 is such a mess for me, story, combat, level design, nothing particularly I enjoyed.
I really don't want live action remakes of Disney movies to be in KH. Dumbo, Alice and Jungle Book are expections
I see your point, but I'd prefer kh2's corridors and boxes to anything like Tarzan's world in 1 with it's clunky platforming and labrynth like layout.
There are obviously exceptions to it, but I just feel there are so many Disney worlds included in the overarching KH plot, introducing more at THIS juncture, when everything is coming to a head, just feels like...why? Unless it was done in a way like Toy Box where it's a unique Kingdom Hearts story set in the Toy Story universe, introducing new stories doesn't only feel needless, but it also raises questions. Like why didn't we go here all this time if these characters were so ripe for darkness harvesting?
I'm having a great time with the game still, I'm just feeling these worlds to be a little long in the tooth. Especially Arendelle.
Please no, we could have got incredibles or zootopia, but they took a backseat because of Pirates & Olympus.
You would have a point if the Disney worlds mattered at all to the main plot.
I tried playing KH 1 years ago but i gave up when i reached that Tarzan level. Both Wonderland and Deep Jungle had some of the worst level design i have ever seen in a popular game. Awful beyond belief. Never touched the series again.
If KH 1 is supposed be one of the ones with better level design, i can't even fathom how are the others.
If KH 1 is supposed be one of the ones with better level design, i can't even fathom how are the others.
The better comparison is really DDD to KH3.
It went from having sorta arbitrarily large spaces for Flowmotion, to having actual big worlds that really justify having so much space to explore. And a way more reasonable amount of chests so far as well, which I appreciate.
It went from having sorta arbitrarily large spaces for Flowmotion, to having actual big worlds that really justify having so much space to explore. And a way more reasonable amount of chests so far as well, which I appreciate.
KH 1 has the absolute worst level design, it gets better with each entry.
It's not, it's actually one of the worst in the entries.
The jump from 1 > 2 > 3 is actually insane.
Even within the first game, everything else is better than those 2. But I also really would not agree that 1 has the best levels to begin with.
Agreed. I finished KH1 again recently and am currently deep into KH2. Hollow Bastion is pretty much the only world that has offered a uniquely imaginative and creative setup for the player to navigate.
KH1 world's otherwise are mostly poorly laid out collectathon mazes, often with punishing vertical navigation with terrible jumping mechanics and repeated loop backtracking. Especially given some exits or areas feel hidden in plain sight and not marked or easily visible, leading to wasted wandering trying to find the next cutscene trigger. It's all awful.
KH2 is just a bunch of arena rooms connected(so far from what I've played). Inoffensive but unimaginitive. It's a night and day improvement in terms of pacing over KH1, but Hollow Bastion still stands as the only shining spot between the two titles.
That would actually further prove my point. That this is the culmination and I don't understand why we're introducing brand new stuff here, just to play out the stories of the movies.
But of course, they matter to the plot. They wouldn't be there otherwise.
Oh, i like the original stories more as well but its more or less a combination of original plot related worlds and the movies, at least its much better handled than KH2 was.
The original kingdom hearts was mostly Disney until the late game , it feels more like series lost its focus a bit with all the Organization XIII stuff ,(though Xehanort is fine), also why nobody dies for real? Now we have all characters involved in the ending its a bit messy
There really isn't anything important to preserve other than "Hey Sora! remember me?!"