After getting your degree and servicing your debt are you earning more than the equivalent of $15/hour?
The Majority of Americans Consider Someone Making 100k/yr Rich. What The F***?
- Thread starter Gaf Zombie
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Sorry, but no. I'm going to call out someone on a complete bullshit argument regardless of their economic status. Economic status has absolutely nothing to do with calling someone out for making up something that never happened. Financially struggling doesn't give you a free pass on making false and bogus arguments.
This is fundamentally false. There are obvious, strong, built-in incentives to coerce people into making certain choices over others. We are forced to direct our activities towards earning an income in the currency controlled by the state in order to survive. Some of those activities are monetarily valued higher than others in such a way that they do not align with the societal benefit they produce. The investment banker negatively benefits society, while the janitor positively does, and yet the disparity between the two in terms of income is so vast that they may as well be living in two different realities. We are also forced to act certain ways due to the threat of violence from the state: retributive justice and police brutality. Ultimately what is the best thing to do is the result of coercion by the state controlled by a capitalist ruling class and aligned with their goals, dictating the norms of behavior. When your choices do not align with those norms, when you can't even make those choices, you are left destitute. How is that freedom? How is that equality? How is that morally right?
More like I went to college right after high school because that's what they tell you, you should do to 'make it in America', incrued school debt with tacked on 7-9% interest in loans, and now I'm post graduate making a money at a job that in literally any other scenario would of made for a budgeted but 'okay' living but because by default I have to give away $1k to loan payments I'm 'fucked'
I didn't 'destroy' my credit. That would imply I did something and blew it financially. I've never been late on payments and rent. So tell me where did I fuck up my credit. Every reason for being rejected is 'debt-to-income' ration. The debt literally being my fucking student loans.
Have you uh....tried not doing a major like being a Doctor that requires you to spend 6+ years in school and accrue a debt that well exceeds 150k?
See how ridiculous that sounds? How much of a non-solution that is? In this scenario being a Doctor is expensive as fucking hell. But lucikly everyone and their grandma gives a shit about them so they have the benefit of having lots of loan deferement and payment programs that other majors could only DREAM of. Otherwise I really wonder how well Doctors would do. Especially in areas where most people forgo going to the doctor all together due to high cost.
I sometimes wonder what would happen in the decades that follows as health insurance continues to skyrocket and the cost of paying a doctor for practically no patients or patients that clearly can't afford them is too costly for a given institution to pay for.
One can choose to not attend university and rack up tens or hundreds of thousands in debt for a single digit pay rise, excluding the debt, time lost to experience can also be costly.
I'm not saying it's morally right, the US education system is completely broken. However, often, it egregiously fails the cost-benefit analysis, which was my point.
Oh wow this image. They can't be serious.$100,000 can be rich or good enough depending on whether you live in a flyover state or New York City. However, a lot of people are making less than that and still have to deal with "budget, save, finance cars etc. etc." on half-to-a-third of the budget, without the security of being a young grad in what is presumably a growing sector.
There's a point to be stated in the OP but comes off like this:
If you have high debt to income, yes your credit is destroyed. If it wasn't, it wouldn't be used to block you from tenancy agreements which have one of the lowest barriers when it comes to credit scores.
Are you working in your chosen field for your degree? Did you study salary outcomes before you signed up for university?
Anyone who takes on a $150k degree that doesn't have the income potential of a doctor or any other high paying career is an idiot.
You literally called me and other posters defensive, and called me out for using the word "ostracized," and you're writing this shit.
Oh that's easy: to build a huge 3-car garage model train set! :)
There is strong incentive to go to college, and there is value in higher education beyond monetary gain.
There is also value in having empathy with your fellow person, especially when the system we find ourselves in is so unjust. Empathy with all who struggle is the only way to get out of this mess, and telling someone "make better choices" isn't doing that. Its a good way to make someone resent you.
Sometimes I wish everyone DOES go into the money paying STEM fields, intentionally playing right into the hands of Bezos and friends to devalue that whole fucking sector to the point where they don't have to pay your ass $45 hourly but still require you to 'Live in the Bay Area' and maybe then we can have a serious debate about how broken the college system is without pointing fingers at majors that don't 'deserve' to have a place in higher education- yet alone the markets.
EWWWWWWWW!!! I'd rather be dead than be part of the B&T riff raff
I know lot of young college graduates today who get out and make around the $15/hr mark. The market for new hires isn't great out there, at least in the SE PA area. Wages are low.
I'm freelancing. I love the job. I hate the cost of my student loans. Again- if I literally didn't have to shell out $1k monthly to a black hole loans I'D BE MORE THAN FINE.
Did I study salary? I don't fucking know- Career talks were filled with professionals working at Nickelodeon and Apple, and I was a dumb 17 year old that just went through a school system that doesn't even teach kids how to file taxes. Yet alone check for the salary of an average career that greatly fluctuates by the time you graduate.
Does that really matter? Or are you going to show you going to continue the song and dance of 'you deserve it' to the poor fucks in this thread who have zero empathy for the 100k makers in this thread who do shit like this at the first chance they get?
There's a reason why the student loan debt is at $1.5 trillion. Maybe the problem isn't someones choice of major.
So what happens when being a Doctor isn't enough to make a living anymore?
Another thing that really needs to change is junior year of high school should have a mandated personal finances class that includes a lot of time spent on things like:
- understanding student loans, how interest accrues, and how to minimize what you take out if you go to college
- teaching students current salary outcomes and projections for various majors
- and how those vary across different affordable in-state public universities, more expensive out of state public universites and and expensive private universities
- How to identify and avoid predatory for profit universities
- Career options available with an associated degree instead of bachelors
- Career options available with trade certifications (mechanics, plumbers, CDL drivers, electricians and so on)
- Career options with just a high school diploma in that area/state
People do have some responsibility to make informed decisions, but it's hard to do that without out all the information or even a firm grasp of what information you should be looking for. Especially when being aggressively recruited by schools that want their tuition dollars and lenders that want future interest profits on loans they're throwing at them.
I'm not saying there isn't value in it beyond monetary gain. There isn't value in the for-profit system employed in the US, it's also a huge driver in the wealth divide in the country.
I have empathy for a fellow person who speaks rationally and reasonably, respecting others opinions. That wasn't found here.
Rich people hire companies for lawn care, and bikes are rented or in storage.
I see it as the less fortunate lumping slightly less broke people in with the oligarchs tanking the country
I guess the main reason the "it depends on where you live" argument is unconvincing to me is that, in these cities where supposedly you have to be making $100k to barely scrape by, lots of people are working for much less than that. They're the majority. Often they're in the very same buildings as the people making six figures. Actually lots of them find working in the city for much less than $100k to be such a good option that they put up with extremely long commutes to do it, since they can't afford rent in the city itself. The people making a lot more could do this too, if they wanted. Obviously it can be done (and some of them do it). But lots of them don't, because they have tons of money and can afford to spend the average American's salary on rent alone so that their commute is 30 or 40 minutes shorter. I think it's pretty fair to call these people "rich".
or to store their non expensive cars in? I live with my dad and we have a 3 car garage. Though the combined value of cars inside is around $30k.
Maybe you can find one or two people but the vast majority of this thread is not what you're claiming at all.
I've read this entire thread from the very start since yesterday.
Are you aware of things like rent control and subsidized housing? Or perhaps the concept of roommates?
You aren't the first one to bring up that point in this thread and I've yet to see anyone making double the amount as those people living in Bay Area, NY, etc. answer that question other than 'we all have bills to pay too.' or 'It's not as good as you think it is.'
Pretty much. I see people with "regular homes" with really expensive cars. Either by finance or lease. I see people with huge houses drive economy cars.
Yes, but I don't see where you're going with this. It's not a huge fraction of housing.
And I see it as all of the above. Shit is broken, but hating on each other is a busted ass game.
Out of interest, assuming that was a pre-tax salary, how much would an average American be looking at taking home after paying tax?
Also, how much does health insurance cost? Just trying to get an idea of how much money that would actually be in real terms.
Also, how much does health insurance cost? Just trying to get an idea of how much money that would actually be in real terms.
Because cars are super weird. like there are people who make millions upon millions of dollars a year and drive a mustang and there are people who make $40,000 a year driving Porsche 911.
it's weird that y'all can acknowledge a bunch variations and stratifications in the middle class ("upper middle class", "well off", "comfortable", "doing well for yourself" or whatever euphemism y'all wanna throw out) but for some reason think that when people say "rich" it's some binary "is a billionaire/isn't a billionaire" descriptor.
Aphexian has posted in this thread for a while...
... Which makes me scratch my head at what they claimed.
Oddly enough the vast majority of the hate and vitriol has been thrown at the "It's not rich" crowd, for the crazy opinion of $100K not being rich.
At the 100K mark, after taxes and health insurance, an individual is taking home between $65,000 and $70,000 a year (or between $5-6,000 a month)
I know you're not gonna respond because you haven't responded to anything I've actually countered you on.
But someone saying "$100K is not rich" is arguing that the binary descriptor of "Rich or Poor" is unrealistic.
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You'd take home something like $80k, though it depends on state and local taxes. Maybe it'd go as low as $70k in some places.
Most of the jobs that would pay you $100k would heavily subsidize your health insurance. Call it a few hundred a month.
You realize the vast majority of people working in STEM aren't on silicon valley money right? Outside of the majors, it's modest professional salaries like any other place.
Federal taxes alone put you at $78k. Most state taxes would drop you below the $70k mark.
I don't know if my numbers are correct, assuming only the standard deduction is used, is around $84K need on 2018 tax brackets.
Not 100% sure on my math though since I did it very quick.
Edit:
Health insurance is about $450/month for me.
Edit 2:
Forgot about state taxes.
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I grew up in L.A. my dad and mom combined made around $130k. Small house, 3 small bedrooms 1.5 bath. No luxory cars. Our vacations once or twice a year were in state. Never went international or to the east coast. I worked and my sister did starting at age 15 or so.
Do tell. Were we wealthy?
Fact is the area one lives in is more important than the dollar amount one makes until you get to say $200-250k household.
$100k in Chattanooga, TN is much different than $100k in Los Angeles.
Fact is most everyone on this board would be consider 'rich' compared to many areas of the world. If you told someone in 1950 that you earned $30k a year you'd be looked upon as being 'rich'.
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After taxes and not putting any in retirement? $70-75k, maybe less if they pay property tax or state taxes. Health insurance wouldn't be too much for a single person, as most $100k jobs cover at least part of that. Maybe $4k for a year. For a family think double that at $6 to 8k, with the potential of having a high deductible on top of that.
Personally, my job covers all healthcare, but that's more of an edge case.
Call it $60-70k take home.
It is absolutely wealthy. Most FAMILIES make 60k, as in all people making money in the family. 100k for one person is a massive amount of money. I cannot even imagine growing up that way.
Let me put it into perspective: I am 29 and make more than that. I put 20% of my income into 401k, max out all of my IRAs and other good investment sources. Still have enough to BASICALLY purchase whatever I want, go on a fancy vacation once a year, and have a savings account with over 6 months of runway in it. $0 balance left on my student loan account.
It's not easy to accomplish at all. I am a rather somber person. I have never owned a car which saves me hundreds of dollars a month. I have always had room mates. I buy cheap clothing except for outer-wear which I want to last a long time. I allocate my paycheck to automatically deposit money into various accounts so I cannot spend it. If I don't mess up and keep it up, I'll probably be a millionaire around the time I want to retire.
Didn't grow up rich. Grew up in a poor shit-town in southern illinois. It was a process of making consistently good decisions, getting out of my low-opportunity environment and moving to a better place ( Chicago ). People say the city is expensive. No. Small shit towns with no high paying jobs and no opportunity for networking and high paying jobs are expensive. That $400/mo rent buys less than my 1k/mo rent in Chicago, believe it.
AND A TON OF LUCK. A MASSIVE FUCKING TRUCK-LOAD OF LUCK.
- Kiss mommy and daddy and my sister and family and friends goodbye. They all still live in my small town.
- took out a ton of student loans for college
- studied Computer Science because my guidance councillor told me it would be in demand when I graduated ( 2012 )
- worked 40hr/week through college as a manual QA tester / Software intern while going to school at night. ($15/hr. Had to keep a roof over my head.)
- Graduated, moved in with roommates, put pretty much all of my income towards loans.
- Constantly practiced and learned new technologies in my down-time.
- Heard about this fancy new fad called "dev-ops" which is a hybrid of sysadmin and software developer... Studied that. A ton.
- Moved jobs every few years ALWAYS focusing on experience over pay
- Those devops jobs? Massively in demand.
Overall I have to say that an investment in your education, when done intelligently, pays DIVIDENDS. Reading books, studying, and LISTENING TO THE ADVICE OF EXPERTS is how I got ahead.
Let me put it into perspective: I am 29 and make more than that. I put 20% of my income into 401k, max out all of my IRAs and other good investment sources. Still have enough to BASICALLY purchase whatever I want, go on a fancy vacation once a year, and have a savings account with over 6 months of runway in it. $0 balance left on my student loan account.
It's not easy to accomplish at all. I am a rather somber person. I have never owned a car which saves me hundreds of dollars a month. I have always had room mates. I buy cheap clothing except for outer-wear which I want to last a long time. I allocate my paycheck to automatically deposit money into various accounts so I cannot spend it. If I don't mess up and keep it up, I'll probably be a millionaire around the time I want to retire.
Didn't grow up rich. Grew up in a poor shit-town in southern illinois. It was a process of making consistently good decisions, getting out of my low-opportunity environment and moving to a better place ( Chicago ). People say the city is expensive. No. Small shit towns with no high paying jobs and no opportunity for networking and high paying jobs are expensive. That $400/mo rent buys less than my 1k/mo rent in Chicago, believe it.
AND A TON OF LUCK. A MASSIVE FUCKING TRUCK-LOAD OF LUCK.
- Kiss mommy and daddy and my sister and family and friends goodbye. They all still live in my small town.
- took out a ton of student loans for college
- studied Computer Science because my guidance councillor told me it would be in demand when I graduated ( 2012 )
- worked 40hr/week through college as a manual QA tester / Software intern while going to school at night. ($15/hr. Had to keep a roof over my head.)
- Graduated, moved in with roommates, put pretty much all of my income towards loans.
- Constantly practiced and learned new technologies in my down-time.
- Heard about this fancy new fad called "dev-ops" which is a hybrid of sysadmin and software developer... Studied that. A ton.
- Moved jobs every few years ALWAYS focusing on experience over pay
- Those devops jobs? Massively in demand.
Overall I have to say that an investment in your education, when done intelligently, pays DIVIDENDS. Reading books, studying, and LISTENING TO THE ADVICE OF EXPERTS is how I got ahead.
People making 100k aren't rich. But some could be said to be out of touch.
At the end of the day getting mad at people only helps the elite.
At the end of the day getting mad at people only helps the elite.