The Matrix is Coming to 4K Blu-ray on May 22nd

doof_warrior · Mar 14, 2018

maybe they can fix the green tint in fellowship if they do

unlike the matrix, that one is 1000% unintentional and i refuse to believe otherwise
the other 2 movies dont have it, and it looks BAD

PhoncipleBone · Mar 14, 2018

Markitron said:
AFAIK they were shot in 35mm so it should be do-able, but I haven't heard anything. The Hobbit trilogy were shot digitally at a 5K resolution IIRC so that should also be possible.

The film was graded digitally at 2K though

Dommo · Mar 15, 2018

Pilgore said:
I may be going a bit off topic here but does anyone know if a Lord of The Rings 4K release is ever going to happen?

I don't see a reason why it wouldn't happen, just might take a bit of time.

mattp said:
maybe they can fix the green tint in fellowship if they do

unlike the matrix, that one is 1000% unintentional and i refuse to believe otherwise
the other 2 movies dont have it, and it looks BAD

The main thing I want is for the theatricals to not be a hack job like the Blu-Ray releases were. Their picture quality is significantly worse than the EEs (green tint not included). Like this is a fucking farce of epic proportions and unfortunately because the EEs are so overwhelmingly preferred, there's not a great deal of fuss kicked up. Not quite the crime those non-anamorphic theatrical Star Wars DVDs were, but it's the same general idea.

The theatricals are better, and I want a pristine transfer of them.

Markitron · Mar 15, 2018

Dommo said:
The theatricals are better, and I want a pristine transfer of them.

You might be the first person I have seen in 15 years that has said this. To me the theatrical versions just feel incomplete, especially RotK.

Pilgore · Mar 15, 2018

As a fan of the EE's as well I'd say the theatrical versions are a little better paced and cut out some of the- not really crucial -scenes the EE's add to an already admittedly long set of films (also as a fan of the one scene in ROTK where the Witch-King mops the floor with Gandalf, it made no sense). And no matter what people say, the theatrical versions *are* the Director's Cut's. But man, I can't remember the last time I saw the theatrical cuts. It's just been EE for years now.

jett · Mar 15, 2018

mattp said:
maybe they can fix the green tint in fellowship if they do

unlike the matrix, that one is 1000% unintentional and i refuse to believe otherwise
the other 2 movies dont have it, and it looks BAD

It's intentional. PJ simply turned into a hack that doesn't know what the hell he's doing.

fspm · Mar 15, 2018

HomerSimpson-Man said:
Awesome!

Unlike The Matrix which they could do a real 4k master if you wanted since it was done on film, Speed Racer was shot digitally @ ~2k so a 2k master is all you really are going to get out of it. I guess doing an HDR 2k upscale could work.

Meaning in 10 years Speed Racer will look like a turd and Matrix easily mastered in 64k. Analog>digital.

golem · Mar 15, 2018

Markitron said:
You might be the first person I have seen in 15 years that has said this. To me the theatrical versions just feel incomplete, especially RotK.

Imo Fellowship Theatrical is the best movie of them all. ROTK and TTT i prefer in EE since they feel incomplete in the theatrical cuts

digitalrelic · Mar 15, 2018

HomerSimpson-Man said:
Awesome!

Unlike The Matrix which they could do a real 4k master if you wanted since it was done on film, Speed Racer was shot digitally @ ~2k so a 2k master is all you really are going to get out of it. I guess doing an HDR 2k upscale could work.

The real benefit of a 4K UHD Speed Racer would undoubtedly be the HDR.

oledome · Mar 15, 2018

exactly what we needed to hear

Pachimari said:
Man, this reminds me I haven't seen Reloaded or Revolutions yet. I should get around to it.

What are these other movies you speak of? (don't do it, life will be better, pls)

mattp said:
unlike the matrix, that one is 1000% unintentional and i refuse to believe otherwise
the other 2 movies dont have it, and it looks BAD

It's intentional. Side note, Matrix Revisited is one of the greatest making-ofs of all time [edit] or are you talking about LotR?

Markitron · Mar 15, 2018

golem said:
Imo Fellowship Theatrical is the best movie of them all. ROTK and TTT i prefer in EE since they feel incomplete in the theatrical cuts

Yea, if I was to drop one EE it would be FotR. I like all of the additions, but the movie works just as well without them. There's a few moments in it that really help Gimli and Legolas' friendship arc which I would hate to lose.

Dommo · Mar 15, 2018

Markitron said:
You might be the first person I have seen in 15 years that has said this. To me the theatrical versions just feel incomplete, especially RotK.

Getting a little off topic, but there are at least a dozen of us, and honestly, although I've come to accept it, I find it truly baffling that the EEs are so widely adored. I'd say a majority of the added scenes are either redundant or actively work against the rest of the film. The only scenes off the top of my head that I felt were actually beneficial are those involving Boromir, although I'm sure there are a few more.

Pargon · Mar 15, 2018

fspm said:
Meaning in 10 years Speed Racer will look like a turd and Matrix easily mastered in 64k. Analog>digital.

35mm film doesn't have infinite resolution.
New scans of older films for UHD releases are showing that it has >2K resolution, but a lot of them sure are noisy.
I generally don't mind it, but at a certain point - and we may have reached that point - more resolution is only revealing the texture of the film itself, rather than providing more picture detail.

signal · Mar 21, 2018

Bumping for no reason besides me wanting to because I just re-watched the Second Renaissance.

4K when.

Keldroc · Mar 21, 2018

fspm said:
Meaning in 10 years Speed Racer will look like a turd and Matrix easily mastered in 64k. Analog>digital.

35mm film is about 8K resolution. There is a maximum visual fidelity reality can provide.

Deleted member 2254 · Mar 21, 2018

Revisionist history of this past decade or so will often try to discredit this movie's innovations and influence, but if you lived the era you could see how many books, movies, music videos, videogames this movie inspired. A new era was truly born with this movie, and to this day it's a brilliantly crafted movie with fantastic imagery, a great message and extremely iconic scenes and characters. I don't hate the sequels as much as most, but it's undeniable they are far less inspired and interesting than the first movie. I'll probably pick this up.

Stiler · Mar 21, 2018

1st one is a classic, and I for one enjoyed the other two as well. They might not have been as groundbreaking or memorable but they had some really great action and cinematography in the whole series.

The motorcycle chase scene with the twins is still amazing imo.

Deleted member 3345 · Mar 21, 2018

It's not the one with all those long stretch strongarm dolls in the quarter alley right?

signal · Mar 30, 2018

Is the city scene background in the scene where Trinity runs on the rooftop supposed to look like a fake billboard?

Go to 2:34 and 2:55. Looks like trash how did I never notice this lol.

Vanillalite · Mar 30, 2018

How good will this actually be in 4k with the special effects?

Nakadai · Mar 30, 2018

Dommo said:
Getting a little off topic, but there are at least a dozen of us, and honestly, although I've come to accept it, I find it truly baffling that the EEs are so widely adored. I'd say a majority of the added scenes are either redundant or actively work against the rest of the film. The only scenes off the top of my head that I felt were actually beneficial are those involving Boromir, although I'm sure there are a few more.

Wow, I didn't know anyone else who feels this way. I absolutely agree. I keep my EE's for the amazing special features, but I only watch my theatrical blu-ray set, wouldn't want to view the films any other way.

B'z-chan · Mar 30, 2018

Vanillalite said:
How good will this actually be in 4k with the special effects?

The film was shot on film and could be rescanned for a crisper/cleaner image. The effects are what they were for the time. Sony's Jumanji is an example where they redid the film scans seperately and put the effects shots in afterwards. So something like that is what I expect from WB with the UHD release.

verygooster · Mar 30, 2018

きゃりーぱみゅぱみゅ said:
This is the wrong Wachowski movie. We need Speed Racer in 4k! (not joking, that movie's fucking awesome)

Speed Racer with HDR. Goddamn my eyes are not ready.

geomon · Mar 30, 2018

UltraMagnus said:
I really dislike the "green tint" filter they added to this film.

This is why I will always keep my original DVD.

TAJ · Mar 31, 2018

mattp said:
maybe they can fix the green tint in fellowship if they do

unlike the matrix, that one is 1000% unintentional and i refuse to believe otherwise
the other 2 movies dont have it, and it looks BAD

The other two movies don't look green because they weren't new scans.
If they revisited the EEs then they'd be more likely to make the other two green than get rid of the green.
I heard somewhere that Jackson wanted to make them look more like the Hobbit movies.

jett · Mar 31, 2018

Keldroc said:
35mm film is about 8K resolution. There is a maximum visual fidelity reality can provide.

35mm isn't equivalent to 8K. That's more like IMAX territory

signal said:
Is the city scene background in the scene where Trinity runs on the rooftop supposed to look like a fake billboard?

Go to 2:34 and 2:55. Looks like trash how did I never notice this lol.

It's just a matte painting.

TAJ · Mar 31, 2018

The only movie shot with the camera used for Speed Racer that's been released on UHD was Cloverfield. I guess you could compare that to the regular Cloverfield BD if you want to see how much improvement there could be.

signal · Mar 31, 2018

jett said:
It's just a matte painting.

I'm not asking if it is real or fake since it's obviously not, it's just SO obvious that I couldn't tell if the viewer was meant to think it was an actual city background or if it's some city-themed advertising billboard on top of a building or something.

Clearly the former but man it's obvious.

signal · Apr 2, 2018

Was watching the second renaissance and noticed the machine started using humans as power in a more crude way before the war was over. kool.

lordlad · Apr 2, 2018

ZeoVGM said:
I stand by Reloaded being great, other than the rave scene.

Ergo................?

Superking · Apr 2, 2018

Okay, this has been bugging me for a while.

How do you even do 4k for movies that were made in lower resolution than that? Is it just an issue of merely up-ressing it?

Deleted member 31133 · Apr 2, 2018

Sweet. I use m Xbox one S to play 4K blu-rays so will be picking this up day one. I was toying with the idea of going digital for films, but 4K movies are massive in size, so I'd be better just to buy the disc. Also looking forward to the UHD relase of Jurassic Park next month!

Nappuccino · Apr 2, 2018

signal said:
I'm not asking if it is real or fake since it's obviously not, it's just SO obvious that I couldn't tell if the viewer was meant to think it was an actual city background or if it's some city-themed advertising billboard on top of a building or something.

Clearly the former but man it's obvious.

Those opening rooftop shots are some of the only bits that feel their budget. They're reused sets from Dark City, ironically enough.

signal · Apr 2, 2018

Nappuccino said:
Those opening rooftop shots are some of the only bits that feel their budget. They're reused sets from Dark City, ironically enough.

Maybe it's meant to look fake to inform the viewer the world isn't real.

Deep.........

StuBurns · Apr 2, 2018

jett said:
35mm isn't equivalent to 8K. That's more like IMAX territory.

People tend to cite 4k, but even that I don't believe, because if that were the case, you wouldn't see much (or any) improvement on a bluray between 35mm and 65mm, and yet, we do, a huge difference. The Master looks substantially better than any 35mm film on bluray, and even The Master has a few 35mm scenes, and the difference is noticeable immediately.

Nappuccino · Apr 2, 2018

signal said:
Maybe it's meant to look fake to inform the viewer the world isn't real.

Deep.........

Hah, well, that's a fun way too look at it. But I also kinda bet they knew most viewers would never even notice the matte painting.

Deleted member 39450 · Apr 2, 2018

Oblivion said:
Okay, this has been bugging me for a while.

How do you even do 4k for movies that were made in lower resolution than that? Is it just an issue of merely up-ressing it?

They re-scan the film at 4K. Post-production is almost always done at 2K (especially anything with a lot of CGI) so the film is essentially locked at 2K resolution, but they'll likely regrain it at 4K to give it more detail.

DieH@rd · Apr 2, 2018

signal said:
I'm not asking if it is real or fake since it's obviously not, it's just SO obvious that I couldn't tell if the viewer was meant to think it was an actual city background or if it's some city-themed advertising billboard on top of a building or something.

Clearly the former but man it's obvious.

It looks good enough, especially for 1999 when CGI was not yet avaiable for every type of situation. In those scenes I was more happy about the rooftop sets themselves (which were taken from the movie The Dark City) than the backgrounds.

signal · Apr 2, 2018

DieH@rd said:
It looks good enough, especially for 1999 when CGI was not yet avaiable for every type of situation. In those scenes I was more happy about the rooftop sets themselves (which were taken from the movie The Dark City) than the backgrounds.

I think you're underestimating how jarring it can look it you really notice it. Especially the 2:34 part. I don't think it has anything to do with CGI since no other scene in the film looks like that. It looks as though they forgot to add any post processing to it or something. Anyway it's not a big deal at all. I literally just noticed it and have seen the film maybe a dozen times so it's clearly not an issue, was just commenting on how out of place it seems.

jett · Apr 2, 2018

StuBurns said:
People tend to cite 4k, but even that I don't believe, because if that were the case, you wouldn't see much (or any) improvement on a bluray between 35mm and 65mm, and yet, we do, a huge difference. The Master looks substantially better than any 35mm film on bluray, and even The Master has a few 35mm scenes, and the difference is noticeable immediately.

I tend to agree, just on the basis that the 4K projections I've seen in theaters of digital 4K movies look substantially better than any 35mm movie I've seen.

DieH@rd · Apr 2, 2018

signal said:
I think you're underestimating how jarring it can look it you really notice it.

I noticed it, but it does not affect my enjoyment.

Spiritual_Chaos · Apr 2, 2018

Has any live action film re-exported the CG in higher resolution? Like Pixar did with Toy Story.

StuBurns · Apr 2, 2018

jett said:
I tend to agree, just on the basis that the 4K projections I've seen in theaters of digital 4K movies look substantially better than any 35mm movie I've seen.

It'll be interesting to see some 65mm on UHD, as far as I know, 2001 will be the first. The Master and The Hateful Eight aren't on there yet.

Hesemonni · Apr 2, 2018

"There is no spoon" CGI spoon in all it's 4k glory.

Ushojax · Apr 2, 2018

Nakadai said:
Wow, I didn't know anyone else who feels this way. I absolutely agree. I keep my EE's for the amazing special features, but I only watch my theatrical blu-ray set, wouldn't want to view the films any other way.

There's probably about 10 minutes across all 3 EEs that is actually worth keeping and most of that is Saruman in ROTK. There are a few little bits with Boromir and a literal few seconds in FOTR when Gandalf discusses Gollum with Frodo (in Moria) and the rest is all fluff. I honestly find the EE of ROTK excruciating to watch, it's way too indulgent.

Blackpuppy · Apr 2, 2018

Dommo said:
Yes.

But in all seriousness, it doesn't need to be chunky or large in physical size like a vinyl or laserdisc, but yeah it's the right direction. Criterion has the right idea. Same dimensions as a regular blu-ray, but just by making it in a clear case that jettisons the obnoxiously ugly "Blu-Ray" plastic branding at the top, you've got something immediately palatable.

Well, according to the press release, "The 4K UHD remaster was supervised by the film's director of photography, Bill Pope," which is actually really great news because he'll know what the intent was. See, the problem with everyone saying "Ugh, they added the green tint. The Matrix was never supposed to be that green. Look at the original '99 DVD release" - the 99 release isn't necessarily accurate either, and looks a little bit brown considering Pope has supposedly said in the past that the 'green in the Matrix/blue in the real world' is a very deliberate design decision and it didn't really make it into that original DVD release.

Here's hoping Pope can find a happy medium and we get the closest colours to the original cinema release.

Indeed the dvd is not exactly correct either.

Link to a scan of a theatrical print: https://m.imgur.com/a/LcuQo

UltraMagnus · Apr 2, 2018

Blackpuppy said:
Indeed the dvd is not exactly correct either.

Link to a scan of a theatrical print: https://m.imgur.com/a/LcuQo

The DVD still looks closer to me to the original print. There almost definitely is a deliberate "in your face" strong green tint added to the film post-sequels on Blu-Ray.

Bung Hole · Apr 2, 2018

Strangelove77 said:
God, it looks so...old now. Leather trenchcoats and sunglasses as far as the eye could see.
Dated as hell.

Bruh, sunglasses day or night. How the he'll would you be able to see at night a pair of shades on but that ridiculousness is what made the movie great. We need more bold ideas like this. I hope someone gives the wachowskis unlimited cash to create more movies.

signal · Apr 2, 2018

Bung Hole said:
Bruh, sunglasses day or night. How the he'll would you be able to see at night a pair of shades on but that ridiculousness is what made the movie great. We need more bold ideas like this. I hope someone gives the wachowskis unlimited cash to create more movies.

The best is the intro to Reloaded where they are having that meeting before the Neo vs. Agents fight. Sunglasses at night AND indoors.

Stiler · Apr 2, 2018

StuBurns said:
People tend to cite 4k, but even that I don't believe, because if that were the case, you wouldn't see much (or any) improvement on a bluray between 35mm and 65mm, and yet, we do, a huge difference. The Master looks substantially better than any 35mm film on bluray, and even The Master has a few 35mm scenes, and the difference is noticeable immediately.

A lot of this depends on a multitude of things. Mainly, how good is the source print they are scanning from, how are they scanning the print (not all scanners are the same quality), who's overseeing the scan, how much time are they devoting to fixing it up, etc.

A well kept 35mm print that was shot on a good lens will get you around 20 good megapixels before it's too noisy. 1080p resolution is 2 megapixels, 4k is around 9 megapixels, 6k is 19 megapixels.......so yes, 35mm film can potentially give you an amazing image on 4k, let alone on blu ray.

You can have a 35mm film that was scanned from a bad/damaged print that looks like shit, then you can have one that was scanned from a well kept print that looks great, but both can turn out bad if the company doing the scan don't take the time to do it properly, cleaning it up, resorting it, color correcting, fixing damage spots, etc.

I mean look at Suspiria for instance, watch the new Synapse blu ray, it looks jaw droppingly breathtaking, even stacked up against brand-new movies that were shot digitally. They scanned the print at 4k and it took them over FOUR YEARS worth of work to do this, frame by frame, that's how much time/care they put into it, as well as getting help from the films cinematographer.
http://synapse-films.com/news/suspiria-comparison-pictures/

Many movies simply don't get that kind of care behind their releases, either neglect when the source print was stored which leads to damage of the source print, or they just scan the film "as is" without taking the time to do it properly and carefully when it comes to cleaning and restoring it the best they can with the source they are scanning from.

Hell look at the 4k release of Terminator 2, it was a disaster, one of the WORST 4k releases, even the blu ray looks better because they dnr'd the hell out the 4k release and people look like wax with all the detail scrubbed away.

Now look at the 4k release of Blade Runner, simply amazing to watch at 4k.

This is a good short video showing the process of film restoration and what they go through (from Criterion)
https://vimeo.com/84135659

The Matrix is Coming to 4K Blu-ray on May 22nd

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