The Mayor of Minneapolis just got booted from todays protest in an incredible Game of Thrones style walk of shame
- Thread starter painey
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And you're paying attention to them why? No one reasonable is saying that, it's not even close to the majority.
The numbers are correct, but you're taking about a city that's planning to spend 1.15 billion on the Fire Department and 1.45 billion on Public Works (streets, sewers, etc.).
I think the more telling figure is that the budget assigns around 50% of unrestricted revenues (ie those that aren't earmarked for a specific purpose set by law) to police. That figure seems crazy high.
I'm not paying attention to them. I was only reacting / responding to the "no one is..." comment. Sorry if it came off as pedantic.
The numbers and therefore the image is accurate than for what its trying to say. We're talking about police budgets compared to other societal rights, not other departments and city maintenance.
Pointing out that the image isn't accurate is missing the whole point. You're distracting from the point with semantics.
That absolutely is abolition though, and I think that's what more people need to understand. The people that have done decades and decades of work on researching the abolition of police haven't just said "take police away and do zero else". Simply defunding doesn't get you a situation where when you call for help, the person that comes is not necessarily someone with a gun whose first instinct is to use force to solve a situation. That happens with abolition.
I mean okay, but this really feels like a distinction without a difference.
The numbers are accurate re: total appropriations by the City. If limited to appropriations out of the City general fund (which is generally what is meant when discussing a municipal "budget"), they're actually inaccurate; the amount spent on Police in that case is around 1.85b, or 18%~ of all general fund appropriations.
The chart amalgamates different figures and leaves the impression that the City is spending 90%+ of its money on police.
There are better ways to make the point that the LAPD is overfunded especially relative to public heath/welfare programs without being deliberately confusing. I think the People's Budget does it well in its abstract here:
There's nothing confusing about the graphic though, it's pretty clear what its illustrating (and is accurate, as you have said). What you linked to illustrates the same thing, so I'm still kind of confused as to what point you're trying to make.
I mean, I saw people in the thread where it was shared previously have the impression that the graph represented literally all City spending. Maybe they were being disingenuous, but I don't think it's that clear.
What does defund completely mean? It implies you can defund in different proportions. Defunding means zero funding going forward. Anyone thinking that's going to happen is going to be upset.
Yea, he's definitely a clod. But no one buys BDB's bullshit. Garcetti seems like he came out of central casting for the role of progressive sweetheart.
Had me in the first half, not gonna lie.
Edit: I was not prepared for how accurate the thread title was. Ouch.
Do cops really make that much money? It's a job you put your life at risk for.
People either choose the career for the money or for the power trip. Hopefully we get rid of the 2nd part and weed out those people, but who would choose a career as a cop if the money wasn't good?
I agree It wasn't confusing for me I took it as a comparison between the police budget and other well being/support budget who are a tiny fraction of it even though they would make a big impact on lot of problems. I never saw it as the whole LA budget pie
At least in my city (Baltimore), cops are the highest paid city employees. Their base salaries tend to be pretty good, but they make a ton of money in overtime and there's very little supervision so they basically just rack up all the overtime they want. It's a big deal here and the current commissioner is trying to bring the overtime down (probably also not great for the cops or the citizens to have police on the streets who have been working 20 hours straight either).
earlier this year there was an example of police brutality caught on camera and if I recall correctly the cop in question was one of, if not the highest paid city employee.
they're not making millions a year obviously, but considering many of them have little education and it comes with good benefits , job security, and pension it's a pretty well paid job.
I didn't say a majority said it. I only said that your statement was false and many disagree. Look into research and books on police abolition. It's becoming more mainstream by the day.
Glad to see his ass sent packing. Name is perfect too.
Top notch comment. Not even kidding lol.He should have announced a 30 point plan to defund the police and then ended with a spin
Part of the problem is that the job itself attracts shithead bigots that are too eager to treat the first POC they see like shit. The standards and qualifications to even get in should be raised. You don't need more cops you need better people for the job.
Seek out people who have a history of impacting their community positively and have made real change. What have they done that truly qualifies them to hold such an important position? Too many racist assholes see policing as a way to live out their power trip dreams. They poorly lack and kind of community impact outside of getting some volunteering hours in to look good.
Seek out people who have a history of impacting their community positively and have made real change. What have they done that truly qualifies them to hold such an important position? Too many racist assholes see policing as a way to live out their power trip dreams. They poorly lack and kind of community impact outside of getting some volunteering hours in to look good.
If Democrats aren't going to do this, does this mean left leaning voters won't vote for Democrats? Then we're stuck with a Republican?
I hate the two party system.
I hate the two party system.
It has nothing to do with standards and everything to do with the actual job.
ACAB. There are no good cops. The only effect you'd get from recruiting "better people" is that you give them discomfort and make them choose between their values or their job. The reason bad people get ahead in policing is because, for them, there is no discomfort, all is in alignment, and that makes them highly useful tools for the sytem.
The thing I would suggest to you is that you've got a job in mind, but it's not the sort of violence work that police are explicitly designed to handle. The good news is when we abolish the police, we can talk about those ideas and work on crafting them into some sort of new agency, one that's not reliant on the idea of sending a bunch of people out there to handle all the world's problems while equipped only for physical violence.
I just really feel every discussion about defunding the police needs to include this image.
Spend less on
Defunding the police is not realistic. It needs serious reforms.
Thats what i am saying, why even go if you not gonna side with the protesters 100%.
LOL. Like what the hell did he even go there for?
I mean shit, lie to them and say "yeah, sure ill defund the police"
I didn't ask about garbage collections and your point has nothing to do with my post.
I agree that it has to do with the actual job as I stated that the job itself attract shithead bigots. There has to be a reason behind that and I believe that reason to be the current way policing is setup. Combine that with the low community qualifications/standards and you have a great way to attract shitty people. It's a great way for violent racists to find a career.
I think he wanted to show he was a "man of the people." They corrected him.
Reform is insufficient because of the nature of the failure of police.
Police are failures from the standpoint of serving the public, but the actual job of cops has nothing to do with serving the public. The purpose of cops is to enforce the status quo with violence. The violence we see now isn't because of some glitch in the system, it's just a broken system working as intended when police have lost the veneer of legitimacy that let them keep control without having to actually enact the violence they threaten. A little light plastic surgery cannot cure the malignant heart at the center of policing, it can only put a more attractive face on it.
Don't buy into this defeatist bullshit. The system exists because people out there perform it on a daily basis, and if enough of us perform something else, we can do something different. The system has momentum, but it can be beat. There are a million instances in history where things were seen as not realistic. Every revolution was preceded with a time where people thought it was "unrealistic" to topple a system that was ultimately toppled. A better world is possible, if we put in the work.
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You said it was a job you put your life at risk for.
A lot of jobs are dangerous and many of them are more dangerous than policing and pay less.
It is very, very limited thinking to believe humanity couldn't survive without police officers. Something else can be created in their stead, something not based on and rooted in inherent, systemic racism, classism and a stronghold of power. Something actually idealistic which works to enforce justice AND compassion rather than law and order.
You would also have to rethink the ticket fee system, prisons and the idea of rehabilitation.
And there are great ideas out there how to reform it. But America not interested because:
1. For profit prisons
2. More money being spent in rehabilitation
3. People want to see citizens rot in prison.
4. People always finding a way to abuse positions of power and authority.
5. Cities and towns needing money and funds outside of taxes. And needs quotas and tickets to bring money in.
6. The rich and powerful doesn't want any kind of communist policing system where they don't have the same amount of privilege and power over authorities.
Completely off topic, but it's crazy how the brain works. I had to read that post three times to find the typo.
Departments that handle different shit. Strait up one thing that cuts down on a lot of police killing is that there are things the police don't show up for. Departments that handle different types of crimes or issues in general would cut down on a bunch of stuff because not everyone needs the guy with the gun.
Words are meaningless. He thought he was an ally because of the things he's said and thought thus why he felt he could be amongst the crowd in plain clothes. He's in a position of power and has done nothing with it on this issue and only spoke out about the officers after protests started.
Curious to see what he does after this embarrassment.
Someone else already commented on this but I wanted to add my 2 cents... It absolutely is abolishing the police. The entire institution should cease to exist, and MAYBE some of those ex-cops could apply to be part of the new system, but the power structure and the police unions and trying to have one group of people respond to basically every type of emergency call needs to go.
Get rid of the police, create multiple departments to handle each type of emergency. Don't allow most of them to carry guns, and those who can are only sent out when it's been verified other methods have not worked first. Those people should require regular psych evals, third-party oversight, and literal years of training.
This is just a basic idea and there's a lot more that would be part of it, but the basic idea is that the police as they currently exist are beyond saving and you would literally either need to gut them almost completely or abolish them.
