reksveks

Member
May 17, 2022
5,816
Being a slight conspiracy theorist here

Google Devising Radical Search Changes to Beat Back A.I. Rivals https://nyti.ms/3oiEuvh

Google's employees were shocked when they learned in March that the South Korean consumer electronics giant Samsung was considering replacing Google with Microsoft's Bing as the default search engine on its devices.

For years, Bing had been a search engine also-ran. But it became a lot more interesting to industry insiders when it recently added new artificial intelligence technology.

Google's reaction to the Samsung threat was "panic," according to internal messages reviewed by The New York Times. An estimated $3 billion in annual revenue was at stake with the Samsung contract.

Wouldnt shock me if they do a bit more work re the MS app store.
 

T0kenAussie

Member
Jan 15, 2020
5,476
[sigh] This morning an anonymous non-lawyer [eye roll] posted this, and once again I have to leap in [please, stay your applause] to vigorously defend facts and truth. It's not a burden I chose, it's more of a calling. [knuckles crack] I shall now dissect the anonymous [shudder] non-lawyer post...
I read this as a Werner Herzog monologue
 
Sep 7, 2020
2,340
I highly doubt Microsoft buys another big publisher any time soon and if anything, Sega making this purchase makes them less likely to be bought by Microsoft. Sega would fill a lot of holes though.
Yeah, idk. I feel like anything is a possibility after this deal. Seems like once you buy the biggest publisher, it kind of makes sense that anything smaller would be less concerning albeit similar publishers (EA and Take 2, Valve, Epic,) are likely impossible to get through.
 

Corrik

Alt Account
Banned
Aug 5, 2022
1,124
I do think Square is slimming down their business though so they are easier to be acquired at some point. That would likely explain their baffling selling of assets.
 

12Danny123

Member
Jan 31, 2018
1,725
I do think Square is slimming down their business though so they are easier to be acquired at some point. That would likely explain their baffling selling of assets.

Just imagine the meltdowns if Microsoft acquires Square Enix. Square Enix as a public company has a duty to it's shareholders to entertain the highest bidder's offer, so Sony and SE's close relationship is not relevant here.
 

Bengraven

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Oct 26, 2017
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Just imagine the meltdowns if Microsoft acquires Square Enix. Square Enix as a public company has a duty to it's shareholders to entertain the highest bidder's offer, so Sony and SE's close relationship is not relevant here.

I want to give you a mature response but all I can think of is Dunmer wearing Viera ears in ESO.

Edit: all seriousness the meltdowns wouldn't nearly as bad as 15 years ago. The FF13 on Xbox meltdowns broke people. The audacity that Xbox players would get to play a new Final Fantasy. Surely they could be calmer now. *looks away to hide face*
 

AustarusIV

Member
Jan 8, 2019
69
Just imagine the meltdowns if Microsoft acquires Square Enix. Square Enix as a public company has a duty to it's shareholders to entertain the highest bidder's offer, so Sony and SE's close relationship is not relevant here.

If Final Fantasy XIV was somehow put on Game Pass following this scenario, I would never let go of my Game Pass subscription.

But yeah, the reactions would be…interesting, to say the least.
 

Fabtacular

Member
Jul 11, 2019
4,272
I do think Square is slimming down their business though so they are easier to be acquired at some point. That would likely explain their baffling selling of assets.
It's not baffling.

Those Tomb Raider games were extremely expensive to make / market, and while they sold a lot of copies much of that was from aggressive price cuts. So they likely weren't very successful financially even if they didn't lose money.

Beyond that it's pretty clear that all of SE West's output the past 10+ years has been borderline disastrous. Thief, Deus Ex Mankind Divided, GOTG, Avengers … all expensive bombs.

So from SE's perspective, their Western games were all losers and profits were all from the Japanese studios. So in that respect it made perfect sense to jettison the Western studios and place their focus / resources elsewhere.
 

Corrik

Alt Account
Banned
Aug 5, 2022
1,124
It's not baffling.

Those Tomb Raider games were extremely expensive to make / market, and while they sold a lot of copies much of that was from aggressive price cuts. So they likely weren't very successful financially even if they didn't lose money.

Beyond that it's pretty clear that all of SE West's output the past 10+ years has been borderline disastrous. Thief, Deus Ex Mankind Divided, GOTG, Avengers … all expensive bombs.

So from SE's perspective, their Western games were all losers and profits were all from the Japanese studios. So in that respect it made perfect sense to jettison the Western studios and place their focus / resources elsewhere.
You can have your opinion, but the IPs were worth more than what everything was sold for alone.
 

The Lord of Cereal

#REFANTAZIO SWEEP
Member
Jan 9, 2020
10,884
I hope that we'll get some kind of media report on the CMA's opinion this week before the final report is issued next week. I mean I have a strong feeling they'll accept behavioral remedies but it'd be nice to have more than my educated feeling
 

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
63,079
I hope that we'll get some kind of media report on the CMA's opinion this week before the final report is issued next week. I mean I have a strong feeling they'll accept behavioral remedies but it'd be nice to have more than my educated feeling
My favorite is when i wake up around 7 AM to fresh news and can read a big old pdf with my coffee. Hoping for that this week lol
 

Antrax

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,915
Those Tomb Raider games were extremely expensive to make / market, and while they sold a lot of copies much of that was from aggressive price cuts. So they likely weren't very successful financially even if they didn't lose money.

Beyond that it's pretty clear that all of SE West's output the past 10+ years has been borderline disastrous. Thief, Deus Ex Mankind Divided, GOTG, Avengers … all expensive bombs.

This is also the kinda thing that potential buyers don't like in the organization. "Here's the kitchen area. Down the hall is the break room, and behind this door is where we keep the money/resource pit we don't know what to do with." Not super compelling. Buyers want to do as little work as possible turning an M&A profitable, and Square wasn't going to really offer much of anything in the way of guidance on how to do that with their Western studios (because they never did themselves).
 

Soap

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,087
Just imagine the meltdowns if Microsoft acquires Square Enix. Square Enix as a public company has a duty to it's shareholders to entertain the highest bidder's offer, so Sony and SE's close relationship is not relevant here.
Me thinks that might be a bridge too far. Square also have a good relationship with Nintendo these days so I would imagine MS would be going up against two of its competitors and their team of lawyers.
 

12Danny123

Member
Jan 31, 2018
1,725
Me thinks that might be a bridge too far. Square also have a good relationship with Nintendo these days so I would imagine MS would be going up against two of its competitors and their team of lawyers.

Nintendo and Sony don't have a solid case. They can't argue that MS making SE games exclusive will derail their business beyond recovery. It didn't work with Sony regarding COD, it's laughable that it'll work for SE.
 

Clippy

Member
Feb 11, 2022
3,090
Me thinks that might be a bridge too far. Square also have a good relationship with Nintendo these days so I would imagine MS would be going up against two of its competitors and their team of lawyers.
How do you exactly argue that SE software is essential input when you're paying to keep it off Microsoft's consoles? That seems like a pretty tricky needle to thread. At a minimum it's a de facto admission of anticompetitive behavior.
 

T0kenAussie

Member
Jan 15, 2020
5,476
Me thinks that might be a bridge too far. Square also have a good relationship with Nintendo these days so I would imagine MS would be going up against two of its competitors and their team of lawyers.
The train of thought with a square acquisition wouldn't be exclusivity more than maybe perks and early access, the business case for anything else would be tantamount to brand suicide which would rank the value of the assets you are purchasing

At best for the people who like list wars you might get exclusive content around the launch of next gen in 6 years

But a square enix acquisition does signal to the market and the eastern markets in particular that Xbox won't be the skipped platform anymore, their mobile game store with xcloud integration will get a bunch of premier jrpg support which could give them a network effect. Some native ports but mostly streamed games

It's not a power play for console wars that doesn't make sense but it would be a good business move to continue growing your exploding growth in pc and cloud
 

Baobab

Member
Feb 4, 2021
1,123
Maybe an out of the topic question:
Does somebody know the content of the trade deal between USA and Japan regarding software?
Could MS have a point regarding exclusivity deals of Third Parties and Sony in Japan?
Could they use such trade deal to make the exclusivity process for the third parties games more "open" in both USA and Japan?

I am asking the question because this topic has now been brought out by both republican and democrat politicians and that is a sign of something brewing.....
 

Kiryu957

Member
Sep 26, 2020
983
If Microsoft bought SEGA, they should definitely rebrand the Xbox to a SEGA brand in not just Japan, but also Korea, Southeast Asia and India. Not just that however, they are going to need to treat the next Xbox console as a re-launch in those regions with marketing deals with Asian publishers, and higher production of physical games with light blue packaging to represent SEGA. Asia is a region that is very physical media driven.
Lol xbox is a much more known brand than sega in India.
 

T0kenAussie

Member
Jan 15, 2020
5,476
Maybe an out of the topic question:
Does somebody know the content of the trade deal between USA and Japan regarding software?
Could MS have a point regarding exclusivity deals of Third Parties and Sony in Japan?
Could they use such trade deal to make the exclusivity process for the third parties games more "open" in both USA and Japan?

I am asking the question because this topic has now been brought out by both republican and democrat politicians and that is a sign of something brewing.....
I did some light reading but it's very unclear

Roughly around 2019 as part of a us japan fta deal there was a provision for digital marketplaces and opening up trade on digital products and services and promote trade between companies in digital marketplaces through better cooperation, reduction of tariffs and an understanding to "promote non discriminatory practices between countries"

I guess tangentially you could see japans small appetite to regulate the stranglehold on the high end home console market that Sony has (Sonys definition in submissions to cade and other regulatory bodies not mine) and that this makes Microsoft's ability to practice trade on its digital products restricted and stagnate its growth in the region (Xbox marketplace through Xbox consoles / PCs / cloud) as not behaving in good faith to "promote non discriminatory practices". This launches a potential trade dispute as the us and Japan look to ratify further trade agreements and promote investment in each respective country

It's really no different to the showmanship when someone in gov represents a state from a car manufacturer (Detroit? Etc) that Japanese car manufacturers flood the us market with cheap imports and conversely box out American cars from the Japanese markets while their regulators sort of just stand to the side and say "American companies just don't get the Japanese consumers" and don't really look to much into it


Australia has had similar problems with china of late, most notably when they froze out coal imports over a trade dispute and some poor choices of words from our government at the time, relations still haven't normalised yet

As to whether they can write a new trade agreement to curtail exclusives? Maybe? But that would be a hard sell as you are dictating how businesses can act and usually trade deals only care about access measures that are low touch like tariffs / investment rules where you are more suggesting better cooperation rather than enforcing cooperation and some trade dispute adjudication processes

Which ironically is what all these reps are doing. Saber rattling and signalling they want to open a trade dispute adjudicating process

But no one knows really how that goes because no one knows what really is inside the details of the agreement

I don't bemoan the media for not understanding this and sort of poopooing it all as exclusively a lobbying interest campaign at the behest of Microsoft but also if I can find the summary papers with a quick bing and put 2 and 2 together surely the quality of commentary could have been better
 

CottonWolf

Member
Feb 23, 2018
1,880
The train of thought with a square acquisition wouldn't be exclusivity more than maybe perks and early access, the business case for anything else would be tantamount to brand suicide which would rank the value of the assets you are purchasing
I don't buy this. It would be a direct ZeniMax analogue, surely? FF and their AA titles would get GamePass exclusivity at the first opportunity. Kingdom Hearts might be more complicated, because they have to negotiate with Disney where it releases, I imagine.

Dragon Quest is the only case I agree. It would probably be Nintendo and Xbox, simply because of the market it exists in (i.e. it's biggest in Japan and Xbox is a non-factor there).
 

Baobab

Member
Feb 4, 2021
1,123
I did some light reading but it's very unclear

Roughly around 2019 as part of a us japan fta deal there was a provision for digital marketplaces and opening up trade on digital products and services and promote trade between companies in digital marketplaces through better cooperation, reduction of tariffs and an understanding to "promote non discriminatory practices between countries"

I guess tangentially you could see japans small appetite to regulate the stranglehold on the high end home console market that Sony has (Sonys definition in submissions to cade and other regulatory bodies not mine) and that this makes Microsoft's ability to practice trade on its digital products restricted and stagnate its growth in the region (Xbox marketplace through Xbox consoles / PCs / cloud) as not behaving in good faith to "promote non discriminatory practices". This launches a potential trade dispute as the us and Japan look to ratify further trade agreements and promote investment in each respective country

It's really no different to the showmanship when someone in gov represents a state from a car manufacturer (Detroit? Etc) that Japanese car manufacturers flood the us market with cheap imports and conversely box out American cars from the Japanese markets while their regulators sort of just stand to the side and say "American companies just don't get the Japanese consumers" and don't really look to much into it


Australia has had similar problems with china of late, most notably when they froze out coal imports over a trade dispute and some poor choices of words from our government at the time, relations still haven't normalised yet

As to whether they can write a new trade agreement to curtail exclusives? Maybe? But that would be a hard sell as you are dictating how businesses can act and usually trade deals only care about access measures that are low touch like tariffs / investment rules where you are more suggesting better cooperation rather than enforcing cooperation and some trade dispute adjudication processes

Which ironically is what all these reps are doing. Saber rattling and signalling they want to open a trade dispute adjudicating process

But no one knows really how that goes because no one knows what really is inside the details of the agreement

I don't bemoan the media for not understanding this and sort of poopooing it all as exclusively a lobbying interest campaign at the behest of Microsoft but also if I can find the summary papers with a quick bing and put 2 and 2 together surely the quality of commentary could have been better
Thank you very much for your reply.
So there is definitely a mix of showmanship and lobbying in this but there could be possibly some legal base for MS to bring this matter in the court of law.
Interesting , i was not aware until recently of this deal existing, but one geopolitical commentator I fallow on YouTube made sound the deal as a very favourable for USA( it was not related to gaming at all).
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,975
Not a particularly interesting one but think Samsung will be the first android OEM to bundle both the new bing and MS store and push it. I am not sure that they will want to be in the app store business if they can get a rev split or upfront fee.

Oh i c. I could imagine Samsung helping push MS' Store. I think they'd still have the Play store on every device, but I could see them trying to help draw eyes to MS' offering at the same time- especially if MS' Store is gamer centric at the start.
 

T0kenAussie

Member
Jan 15, 2020
5,476
Oh i c. I could imagine Samsung helping push MS' Store. I think they'd still have the Play store on every device, but I could see them trying to help draw eyes to MS' offering at the same time- especially if MS' Store is gamer centric at the start.
Ms store would be a focused jack of all trades imo

Office suite productivity

chatgpt and other open ai apps like art and videos

Games

Cloud gaming

Light social networking with linked in and teams
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,975
Ms store would be a focused jack of all trades imo

Office suite productivity

chatgpt and other open ai apps like art and videos

Games

Cloud gaming

Light social networking with linked in and teams

I'm sure it would be that eventually. I'm just not sure it would be all of that immediately.
 

Golding

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,965
From summary:

The primary competition concern in this transaction arose from the (vertical) concern that Microsoft may, post-merger, restrict the distribution of Call of Duty to the Microsoft console, Xbox, or make Call of Duty available on terms that exclude or undermine the ability of other console manufacturers to compete.

The Commission found that the proposed transaction is unlikely to result in significant foreclosure concerns as the parties do not have the ability and incentive to foreclose competing game distributors, particularly Sony (Playstation) and Nintendo (Switch). Furthermore, the merging parties have made undertakings to continue supplying Call of Duty games to other console manufacturers.

Therefore, the Commission found that the proposed transaction is unlikely to result in a substantial prevention or lessening of competition in any relevant markets. The Commission further found that the proposed transaction does not raise any substantial public interest concerns.
 

GulfCoastZilla

Alt account
Banned
Sep 13, 2022
8,852
From summary:

The primary competition concern in this transaction arose from the (vertical) concern that Microsoft may, post-merger, restrict the distribution of Call of Duty to the Microsoft console, Xbox, or make Call of Duty available on terms that exclude or undermine the ability of other console manufacturers to compete.

The Commission found that the proposed transaction is unlikely to result in significant foreclosure concerns as the parties do not have the ability and incentive to foreclose competing game distributors, particularly Sony (Playstation) and Nintendo (Switch). Furthermore, the merging parties have made undertakings to continue supplying Call of Duty games to other console manufacturers.

Therefore, the Commission found that the proposed transaction is unlikely to result in a substantial prevention or lessening of competition in any relevant markets. The Commission further found that the proposed transaction does not raise any substantial public interest concerns.
If only they could have all been that cut and dry.
 

Yerffej

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,573
Y'all think Booty has been out to ABK and solidified plans post- merger to immediately have things ready to go on Game Pass if approved? Like, are they gearing up announcements for the E3 (I know) time period just in case? It's shaving it all pretty close atm.
 

T0kenAussie

Member
Jan 15, 2020
5,476
Can Australia and Canada and such hurry it up too while we're at it
We take our big leads from the us/eu/uk

Whatever 2/3 do we will follow imo

Y'all think Booty has been out to ABK and solidified plans post- merger to immediately have things ready to go on Game Pass if approved? Like, are they gearing up announcements for the E3 (I know) time period just in case? It's shaving it all pretty close atm.

Don't think they can tbh because the adverse effects of those plans on ABK if the deal falls through

Ms can't talk shop or do much until it's all squared
 

ImPacaTheCat

Member
Mar 3, 2020
1,660
Y'all think Booty has been out to ABK and solidified plans post- merger to immediately have things ready to go on Game Pass if approved? Like, are they gearing up announcements for the E3 (I know) time period just in case? It's shaving it all pretty close atm.

I highly doubt it, but a "one more thing" moment on the xbox showcase about the new survival game, or ABK games coming to gamepass would be great
 

gifyku

Member
Aug 17, 2020
2,870
Y'all think Booty has been out to ABK and solidified plans post- merger to immediately have things ready to go on Game Pass if approved? Like, are they gearing up announcements for the E3 (I know) time period just in case? It's shaving it all pretty close atm.

I don't think they can legally do this. If anything, they can announce a coming soon to console while they figure out the PC part after the parties decide to close (which I think will be without FTC clearance)
 

Frieza

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,968
Y'all think Booty has been out to ABK and solidified plans post- merger to immediately have things ready to go on Game Pass if approved? Like, are they gearing up announcements for the E3 (I know) time period just in case? It's shaving it all pretty close atm.
I think they do plan these things out before the deal closes not only did they add a bunch of Bethesda games a few days after the deal closed they FPS boosted them too. I'd imagine they'd do a similar thing with Activision
 

Brrandon

Member
Dec 13, 2019
3,127
I don't think they can legally do this. If anything, they can announce a coming soon to console while they figure out the PC part after the parties decide to close (which I think will be without FTC clearance)
They very much can, as evidenced by bethesda games getting put on gamepass and getting windows store versions days after the acquisition completed. Those ports dont just materialize in a day
 

zYuuKwn

Member
Jun 15, 2020
351
I think they do plan these things out before the deal closes not only did they add a bunch of Bethesda games a few days after the deal closed they FPS boosted them too. I'd imagine they'd do a similar thing with Activision

If you're comparing to the Bethesda acquisition, basically Microsoft were prohibited of calling the shots for Bethesda while the merger wasn't closed. Evidence of this happening could be pretty bad for them. However, the law doesn't account for the company waiting to be merged to from their own accord, start adapting and developing stuff with the acquisition in mind. In this case, think that even if they waste resources and the merge is blocked, the fee they would gain, would superseed the resources wasted. At the same time if the merge is cleared, the stuff made beforehand would = to more money hopefully, since integration with the new parent company would be smoother.
 

ToadPacShakur

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,611
welcome to the club South Africa!

YFkisRAIr24AAAAM
 
OP
OP
Idas

Idas

Antitrusting By Keyboard
Member
Mar 20, 2022
2,215


Not formally approved yet (although as good as done).

This is a large or very complex merger. In South Africa, the Commission can only recommend the Competition Tribunal to approve this kind of transaction. Now, and within ten business days of receiving the recommendation, the Tribunal must schedule a date and time for a hearing and must make its final decision within ten business days of the hearing's completion.

The Tribunal is the one who will approve it (by late April or early May, would be my guess).

But yes, South Africa is almost done.
 

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
63,079
So, still got up to a month until South Africa approves officially, though it probably doesn't matter much.