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Madjoki

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,231
Is an opinion piece looks like. Didn't notice anything about a source or anything. Just wild conjecture based on similarities between the businesses. Netflix wants to get into gaming, Microsoft wants to get gamepass onto more devices, and Microsoft can afford Netflix, therefore this deal would make sense.

It really is just wild conjecture.

"This is a Breakingviews prediction for 2023"

I don't think it's based on anything real.
 

Voodoopeople

Member
Oct 29, 2017
3,874
Is an opinion piece looks like. Didn't notice anything about a source or anything. Just wild conjecture based on similarities between the businesses. Netflix wants to get into gaming, Microsoft wants to get gamepass onto more devices, and Microsoft can afford Netflix, therefore this deal would make sense.

It really is just wild conjecture.

True and actually harmful to the ABK case. This rumour will just add fuel to the fire of "Big, Hungry Tech = Bad".
 

bluspacecow

Member
Dec 15, 2022
27
Is an opinion piece looks like. Didn't notice anything about a source or anything. Just wild conjecture based on similarities between the businesses. Netflix wants to get into gaming, Microsoft wants to get gamepass onto more devices, and Microsoft can afford Netflix, therefore this deal would make sense.

It really is just wild conjecture.
It's Fanfiction at best.
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,731
Sooo... I was checking the Twitter profiles of the FTC commissioners and found this interesting piece on a dissenting statement of commissioner Wilson regarding FTC's new policies. Link

The Second Circuit explained that "the Commission owes a duty to define the conditions under which conduct . . . would be unfair so that businesses will have an inkling as to what they can lawfully do rather than be left in a state of complete unpredictability."6F 7 Instead of heeding this admonition, the Policy Statement adopts an "I know it when I see it" approach premised on a list of nefarious-sounding adjectives, many of which have no antitrust or economic meaning. It provides no methodology to explain which adjectives may apply in any given set of circumstances. The only crystal-clear aspect of the Policy Statement pertains to the process following invocation of an adjective: after labeling conduct "facially unfair," the Commission plans to skip an in-depth examination of the conduct, its justifications, and its potential consequences. The instructions in the iconic Monopoly game provide an apt analogy: the respondent essentially will be told, "Go to jail. Go directly to jail. Do not pass go. Do not collect $200."
[...]

Second, the Policy Statement repudiates the consumer welfare standard and ignores the Supreme Court's admonition that antitrust "protects competition, not competitors."8F 9 The Commission will now seek to advance the welfare of inefficient competitors, "workers," and other unnamed but politically favored groups – at the expense of consumers. (Hey, CADE!)

A lot of other interesting things in there, too!
This is how lawyers say "wtf is this shit?"
 
OP
OP
Idas

Idas

Antitrusting By Keyboard
Member
Mar 20, 2022
2,030
There is a new document from the CMA, a summary of responses from members of the public (3 pages).

- 2.100 emails reviewed, 3/4 in favor of the merger, the rest against
- There is a list of (14) views in favor and (11) against the deal
- The summary does not represent the views of the CMA
 

christocolus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,932
Have added a note about the source btw
just saw that.
There is a new document from the CMA, a summary of responses from members of the public (3 pages).

- 2.100 emails reviewed, 3/4 in favor of the merger, the rest against
- There is a list of (14) views in favor and (11) against the deal
- The summary does not represent the views of the CMA
Is this good or bad? 3/4 favoring the deal is huge also I was expecting far more than 2100 emails.
 

Wrench

Member
Jan 19, 2022
1,594
I like this footnote from the CMA document:

The CMA received approximately 2,600 emails, but some of these were excluded from our review because they contained abusive content (with no other substantive content), or were blank, unintelligible, stated to be from non-UK consumers, or not in English.
 

Windu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,651
cma document said:
it is unlikely that Microsoft would make Call of Duty exclusive due to its multiplayer nature. Making Call of Duty exclusive to Xbox would only create a gap in the market that could be filled by a rival cross-platform shooter game;
yeep
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,339
There is a new document from the CMA, a summary of responses from members of the public (3 pages).

- 2.100 emails reviewed, 3/4 in favor of the merger, the rest against
- There is a list of (14) views in favor and (11) against the deal
- The summary does not represent the views of the CMA
Thanks! 75% pro-merger from the public is better than I expected. Still not sure how relevant it will ultimately be, but we can just add it to the pile.
 

Tigerfish419

Member
Oct 28, 2021
4,536
I can't believe the organic growth argument made it in, well it doesn't actually shock me

c) the Merger would lead to consolidation and would set a harmful precedent in the gaming industry of acquiring large publishers rather than encouraging organic growth;

this would be the largest merger in gaming history, paving the way for a potential string of future acquisitions of publishers such as Take Two, EA, Ubisoft, thereby increasing concentration in the market;

That's not really how it works lol, each deal should be reviewed on it's own basis not if more deals could happen because they can still block those deals if they approve this one.

AGAIN all these arguments against the deal, still don't push it over the line to block the deal.
 
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vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
55,039
Looking at the dissent summary, imo:

6. The following views were expressed against the Merger:
(a) Microsoft is already dominant in PC operating systems, and this Merger is an attempt to gain a similar position in gaming;
irrelevant

(b) Microsoft has the resources to create an offering that competes with PlayStation exclusives without acquiring Activision;

B) maybe, but they clearly havent been able to enough

(c) the Merger would lead to consolidation and would set a harmful precedent in the gaming industry of acquiring large publishers rather than encouraging organic growth;

why is "inorganic" growth harmful, and M&A arent unprecedented

(d) this would be the largest merger in gaming history, paving the way for a potential string of future acquisitions of publishers such as Take Two, EA, Ubisoft, thereby increasing concentration in the market;
D) so what

(e) Microsoft will make Call of Duty exclusive to Xbox, just as it did with Bethesda after it acquired ZeniMax Media;
E) not for 10 years at minimum

(f) Microsoft will have the incentive to make Call of Duty exclusive to Xbox post-Merger. This will adversely affect gamers who cannot afford an additional console and they would therefore switch to Xbox at the launch of the next console generation;
F) not for 10 years at minimum. Buy an xbox the gen it goes exclusive then, or get xbox all access or stream. The barrier of entry is never lower comparatively. This is competition.

(g) Microsoft would be able to deteriorate the quality of Call of Duty games on PlayStation post-Merger, which could cause consumers to switch to Xbox;
G) no they wouldnt lol

(h) Microsoft can capture the multi-game subscription market after the Merger because it can afford to add games to Game Pass at a loss;
H) most subs are loss leaders at first and its a business risk

(i) Microsoft is already dominant in cloud gaming, and the Merger could affect the future of new entrants into that space;
I) "dominant" lol

(j) the Merger will raise barriers to entry for smaller studios and independent developers; and
J) citation needed

(k) the Merger will lead to an increase in Microsoft's bargaining power in relation to game publishers.
K) citation needed
 
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cowboi

Member
Dec 31, 2021
249
There is a new document from the CMA, a summary of responses from members of the public (3 pages).

- 2.100 emails reviewed, 3/4 in favor of the merger, the rest against
- There is a list of (14) views in favor and (11) against the deal
- The summary does not represent the views of the CMA

Footnote 1 reads

The CMA received approximately 2,600 emails, but some of these were excluded from our review because they contained abusive content (with no other substantive content), or were blank, unintelligible, stated to be from non-UK consumers, or not in English.
 

I_love_potatoes

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jul 6, 2020
1,640
There is a new document from the CMA, a summary of responses from members of the public (3 pages).

- 2.100 emails reviewed, 3/4 in favor of the merger, the rest against
- There is a list of (14) views in favor and (11) against the deal
- The summary does not represent the views of the CMA

What's the possibility that some of studios that are against it are Sony owned Studios?

Cause I'm sure they sent those questionnaires to studios like Sony Santa Monica, Insomniac, Bluepoint, Guerrilla, ect... to also get their thoughts on it.
 

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
55,039
What's the possibility that some of studios that are against it are Sony owned Studios?

Cause I'm sure they sent those questionnaires to studios like Sony Santa Monica, Insomniac, Bluepoint, Guerrilla, ect... to also get their thoughts on it.
I dont think the cma cares about american or non Uk studios opinions and would prob get sony directly not their studios
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,731
Footnote 1 reads

The CMA received approximately 2,600 emails, but some of these were excluded from our review because they contained abusive content (with no other substantive content), or were blank, unintelligible, stated to be from non-UK consumers, or not in English.

gamers be fucking normal for one day challenge
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,515
There is a new document from the CMA, a summary of responses from members of the public (3 pages).

- 2.100 emails reviewed, 3/4 in favor of the merger, the rest against
- There is a list of (14) views in favor and (11) against the deal
- The summary does not represent the views of the CMA
Maybe it's just me, but those reasons against don't seem as strong as the reasons for. But that may be because I've seen them counterargued a lot on this site and by others.

And stuff like this:
"the Merger will lead to an increase in Microsoft's bargaining power in
relation to game publishers."

doesn't even seem like a negative -- it's exactly what ms needs

"(c) the Merger would lead to consolidation and would set a harmful
precedent in the gaming industry of acquiring large publishers rather
than encouraging organic growth"

this is pretty funny

i guess this is all just the public though, but outlook good tbh
 

cowboi

Member
Dec 31, 2021
249
Ultimately this response is a nothing burger. We had a response from a market participant that opposes the deal, one that supports the deal, now a balanced summary of public views. I think we are not getting any more responses and CMA will have a preliminary decision in the second week of Jan.
 

DukeBlueBall

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,059
Seattle, WA
They're all just co-opting MS and CMA phase 1 findings and responses.

The for is missing that video game market is dynamic. Unless someone countries a necessary tool, i.e. UE5, there will always be new studios and new games and new hits.
 

I_love_potatoes

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Jul 6, 2020
1,640
I dont think the cma cares about american or non Uk studios opinions and would prob get sony directly not their studios

I mean, I get it, but at the same time, asking Sony as whole rather than their studios is moot as Sony can just say "Speaking on behalf of ALL out studios, we are against it". Lol

I kind of wish I was fly on their wall to know who they asked. 😂
 

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
55,039
Well of course they would.

Their spec is "We help people, businesses and the UK economy by promoting competitive markets and tackling unfair behaviour."

Last I checked America is not in the UK.
Well yeah duh its just funny thinking about how many people wasted their time writing in to a government agency outside their own country to debate the merits of this merger. Poor staffers had to sift through like 500 some spam emails
 

bluspacecow

Member
Dec 15, 2022
27
www.courtlistener.com

Docket for Demartini v. Microsoft Corporation, 3:22-cv-08991 - CourtListener.com

Docket for Demartini v. Microsoft Corporation, 3:22-cv-08991 — Brought to you by the RECAP Initiative and Free Law Project, a non-profit dedicated to creating high quality open legal information.

Have paid for a copy of the "Initial Case Management Scheduling Order with ADR Deadlines"

Looks like the earliest the 10 gamers vs the deal lawsuit would be resolved in March 2023. Seems pretty standard to me right guys ?
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,731
"(c) the Merger would lead to consolidation and would set a harmful
precedent in the gaming industry of acquiring large publishers rather
than encouraging organic growth"

this is pretty funny

Ah, yes, because there's never been consolidation in the games industry before, and wouldn't ever be unless this transaction "sets a precedent." No, I don't know why Square Enix, Sega Sammy, Bandai Namco, and Activision Blizzard all seem to have two names!
 

gifyku

Member
Aug 17, 2020
2,753
That is a pretty well informed public if the summary of the arguments (on the pro side that is) is accurate and not just rounding up. Kudos to normal UK folk I guess
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,515
Surely they're not trying to buy a company with the organic name of Activision Blizzard King.
 

gifyku

Member
Aug 17, 2020
2,753
Ah, yes, because there's never been consolidation in the games industry before, and wouldn't ever be unless this transaction "sets a precedent." No, I don't know why Square Enix, Sega Sammy, Bandai Namco, and Activision Blizzard all seem to have two names!

But notice none of them have Sony or Microsoft or Nintendo as the first name

in before someone makes this argument
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,731
Surely they're not trying to buy a company with the organic name of Activision Blizzard King.
If they're not stopped, they might try to buy an organic company like Marvelous, formerly known as MarvelousAQL, the super organic combination of Marvelous, AQ Interactive, and Liveware

Good thing consolidation in the games industry isn't a thing yet
 

GulfCoastZilla

Shinra Employee
Member
Sep 13, 2022
6,641
What's the possibility that some of studios that are against it are Sony owned Studios?

Cause I'm sure they sent those questionnaires to studios like Sony Santa Monica, Insomniac, Bluepoint, Guerrilla, ect... to also get their thoughts on it.
I mean they you already had at least one person (I believe a naughty dog employee) saying it was bad for the industry. Take that with a huge grain of salt though.
 

vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
55,039
If they're not stopped, they might try to buy an organic company like Marvelous, formerly known as MarvelousAQL, the super organic combination of Marvelous, AQ Interactive, and Liveware

Good thing consolidation in the games industry isn't a thing yet
Embracer is thankfully a single word and very normal and organic
 

ThatNerdGUI

Prophet of Truth
Member
Mar 19, 2020
4,552
There is a new document from the CMA, a summary of responses from members of the public (3 pages).

- 2.100 emails reviewed, 3/4 in favor of the merger, the rest against
- There is a list of (14) views in favor and (11) against the deal
- The summary does not represent the views of the CMA
I'm not surprised by how much more sound the arguments in favor are in comparison to those against.
 

Dabcelwero25

Member
Oct 6, 2021
1,974
Looking at the dissent summary, imo:

6. The following views were expressed against the Merger:

irrelevant



B) maybe, but they clearly havent been able to enough



why is "inorganic" growth harmful, and M&A arent unprecedented


D) so what


E) not for 10 years at minimum


F) not for 10 years at minimum. Buy an xbox the gen it goes exclusive then, or get xbox all access or stream. The barrier of entry is never lower comparatively. This is competition.


G) no they wouldnt lol


H) most subs are loss leaders at first and its a business risk


I) "dominant" lol


J) citation needed


K) citation needed
Those are just Resetera arguments.
 

Raide

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
16,596
Damn, these last few days have been fascinating. I still have no idea if it is good for the deal or not 😂