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smikey

Member
Oct 25, 2017
236
Even if MS didn't "believe in" $70 games, two years of rampant inflation might have changed their minds. Like, forget looking at what 2005 $59.99 games adjusted for inflation are now* — $59.99 in 2020 is basically $69 now.

They haven't started taking preorders for Redfall or Starfield yet. They definitely could charge $70 for their AAA games starting in 2023. It might not be a super great look to raise prices in the middle of trying to get this acquisition approved, but they'd be able to credibly say that they're only raising prices to "the industry standard" and that they're responding to inflation.

*If you're curious, it's over ninety dollars.
ABK games will be $70 because they're already $70 and MS seems to let their larger subsidiaries (which the only example right now is bethesda) set their own prices and manage their own sales. Bethesda has had stuff release this year on GOG that hadn't been there before. I expect MS to raise prices of first party software up to the new standard in 2023. They've clearly demonstrated that if you aren't into gamepass, you can get their releases on steam at launch day, and they are priced accordingly to the storefront.
 

Chille

Member
Jan 7, 2018
2,002
Isn't that where we are right now? Sony, bought exclusivity for Final Fantasy 7R, Final Fantasy 16, Deathloop, Tokyo Ghostwire, was trying to get exclusivity for Starfield, has marketing and exclusive content for CoD, has xbox locked out of octopath traveler 2, and of course Street Fighter 5. Imran Khan also suggested that Sonys third party exclusivity contracts were going to be massive this gen. It was rumored Sony eas trying to get Xbox to leave the industry.
I don't think any one thought MS was going to fully fund the Xbox division and go on the buying spree they are currently on.
I mean wasn't Capcom in major financial trouble with street fighter V and it was exclusive because Sony basically funded the entire game from start to finish.
But yeah the Tokyo and Ghostwire don't have the same reason
 
OP
OP
Idas

Idas

Antitrusting By Keyboard
Member
Mar 20, 2022
2,027
I updated the timelines of every jurisdiction with the most recent updates.

Unless the FTC says something by the end of November, I think that the next big month will be January 2023 with the provisional findings from the CMA + the likely decision from the FTC.

Being already so late in the game, everyone else will wait until the Big 4 (FTC, EC, CMA and China) say something and in January at least two of them should have done it.

If the outcome if positive, EC and China should follow in April - May 2023.

www.cnbc.com

Cloud gaming is not a transformation we expect to see in the next 3-5 years, says Microsoft's Phil Spencer

Phil Spencer, Microsoft Gaming CEO, joins 'TechCheck' to discuss what he expects to see on the consumer gaming front, what Xbox's mobile store will look like and what is happening in cloud gaming.

On the other hand, and although this is from November 8th, I don't think it was posted. Phil Spencer said that they don't see cloud gaming as a transformative tech in the next 3-5 years, that it will take longer than that for a more common use.

I guess that this is the answer that they are giving to regulators.

Yeah, this is pretty well known but the actual amount is new. 360m for 3 years seems like a bargain. Sure we could figure out roughly what % that was of the 30% cut that Google would have got from ABK.

A good source (although rather biased against Google and apple) for the topic of mobile app store is http://www.fosspatents.com

Yes, from time to time I read Foss Patents. There is some good content there.

The irony is that's the example of anti-trust and not whatever Microsoft is doing 🤣 Which is similar to what Sony was doing with cross-play too (and some stuff even to this day). Would they dare to do that if they did not have a control over the biggest chunk of the market - obviously not.

I think that this is why the public discourse about the acquisition has changed in the last few months.

Initially the importance of mobile or that King was the real goal of the acquisition was rarely mentioned. But now there is more focus on the duopoloy of Google/Apple, the deal being all about mobile and King, building an open alternative to Google/Apple, how both app stores have limited the development of cloud gaming for MS (and the rest of competitors) all these years, how powerful are Apple/Google that both can throw out the biggest game in the market (Fortnite) without breaking a sweat, etc.

I think that it makes sense because it's a good way to reinforce the rationale of the acquisition and some of its benefits. Specially when some of those benefits could improve competition on a very relevant market (mobile and distribution of apps) that regulators believe have some serious issues.
 

cooldawn

Member
Oct 28, 2017
2,453
Psygnosis was itself nearly a decade old and one of the top publishers in the UK (and really Europe at large) when Sony bought them. They had multiple dev studios in the UK and Germany (and shortly the USA and France), a huge publishing and marketing program with over a dozen partner studios (including notably DMA Design) and even developed micro/console dev kits with partner SN Systems (who Sony also bought). They weren't some fledgling garage start up by the time they were acquired.

The price paid in 1993 was little for sure but in 1996 Sony floated a Psygnosis sale to interested parties and offers apparently went as high as $300m. Which is more than Sony's paid for any game studio apart from Bungie (afaik) and nearly as much as MS paid for Rare several years later.

I know you want to handwave how things went with Psygnosis as "different" but you need a different approach. They were a notable publisher with huge IP and hundreds of staff (over 700 employees in their 8 global studios by 1997). Bungie being bigger for their day is even arguable.
I think this is getting a bit out of hand now. I know about Psygnosis and it's history (I played their games on an Amiga and as Studio Liverpool, games on PlayStation). The acquisition of Psygnosis is decades old and the industry has moved on massively.

Bungie operates in a different space (live services) and the acquisition has caveats for them to remain independent. Their acquisition is comparable to that of SN Systems because a key decision was to buy Bungie live services technological expertise.

I haven't got a clue how much Sony can pull strings if things go south but we'll find out if Bungie bungles hard at some point of time. I don't expect they will but maybe Sony's only action would be to sell them if things don't work out.
 

fiendcode

Member
Oct 26, 2017
24,933
I think this is getting a bit out of hand now. I know about Psygnosis and it's history (I played their games on an Amiga and as Studio Liverpool, games on PlayStation). The acquisition of Psygnosis is decades old and the industry has moved on massively.

Bungie operates in a different space (live services) and the acquisition has caveats for them to remain independent. Their acquisition is comparable to that of SN Systems because a key decision was to buy Bungie live services technological expertise.

I haven't got a clue how much Sony can pull strings if things go south but we'll find out if Bungie bungles hard at some point of time. I don't expect they will but maybe Sony's only action would be to sell them if things don't work out.
I'm just saying, if you want to see how independent publishers have operated under PlayStation before it's pretty much just Psygnosis and SOE. That's the track record we have to go on, we'll see how to progresses with Bungie.
 

cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
Member
Jan 21, 2019
12,723
Bungie operates in a different space (live services) and the acquisition has caveats for them to remain independent. Their acquisition is comparable to that of SN Systems because a key decision was to buy Bungie live services technological expertise.
Iono about the rest of this debate that I've glossed over entirely up til now, but.. what? The acquisition of Bungie is comparable to that of the acquisition of a small provider of OS/game dev tools? I don't know the context of this statement or even what point you were trying to make here, but.... no?

Edit: Seems like the context is whether Bungie will have their leash yanked if they miss targets or something goes wrong? I don't think we know enough now
 
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Dabcelwero25

Member
Oct 6, 2021
1,974
chromeunboxed.com

Luna may become the next Google Stadia thanks to Amazon’s 10,000-person job cut rampage

I don't need to remind you of the travesty that befell Google's Stadia cloud gaming platform this year. While it's still available for the time being, we're coming up on the literal "deadline" for its shutdown, and cloud gaming as a whole is taking a massive blow. Many people never took it...

Before most gamers even receive their Stadia refunds, it looks like yet another cloud service is taking a hit. Amazon's Luna seems to be wrapped up in the recently announced 10,000-person job cut that The New York Times reported on. It's not just Luna employees that are getting sacked – CNBC also confirmed via a LinkedIn post from the already cut Amazon employees that the Alexa division's workforce is also being scaled back.

The CMA is interested in regulating a market that doesn't even exist lol.
 

UraMallas

Member
Nov 1, 2017
18,958
United States
Yeah, I guess that can cut both ways? True, attempts keep failing. But the fact that probabality Xbox is on a unique potion to dominate that potential future market just got higher.

I believe that is a really silly argument at the end of the day but who knows what the regulators are thinking on it.

As it is, it seems like it is really hard to have a successful cloud gaming effort. But then the question becomes, if Xbox can do it with the backing of Mocrosoft twch, who can possibly succeed and create this supposed market?
 

Iron Eddie

Banned
Nov 25, 2019
9,812
I think this is getting a bit out of hand now. I know about Psygnosis and it's history (I played their games on an Amiga and as Studio Liverpool, games on PlayStation). The acquisition of Psygnosis is decades old and the industry has moved on massively.

Bungie operates in a different space (live services) and the acquisition has caveats for them to remain independent. Their acquisition is comparable to that of SN Systems because a key decision was to buy Bungie live services technological expertise.

I haven't got a clue how much Sony can pull strings if things go south but we'll find out if Bungie bungles hard at some point of time. I don't expect they will but maybe Sony's only action would be to sell them if things don't work out.

Psygnosis and all of the other acquisitions from Sony point in the same direction until the recently added Bungie deal, which is they create exclusive content for their own hardware. How has the industry moved forward since then? No other studios that Sony owns has ever been questioned about remaining multi-platform. This is why it's puzzling why Bethesda was mentioned as some sort of questioning with 'trust' and how Microsoft will move forward with the Activsion/ Blizzard deal.

With Bungie, Sony has said they will remain independant but we shall see if Destiny and future titles favor the PlayStstaion platform (Destiny 1 and 2 already have perks on Playstation), something Jim Ryan is worried about in regards to Activision/ Blizzard and namely the CoD franchise. They want those perks to continue on PlayStation with CoD.
 
OP
OP
Idas

Idas

Antitrusting By Keyboard
Member
Mar 20, 2022
2,027
I thought that today I would have enough time to complete this, but it looks like the FTC will have to wait a little longer :p

How do remedies work at the FTC, CMA and European Commission?

FTC

Coming soon

CMA

There are common principles that apply to the assessment of remedies at Phase 1 and 2. Therefore, the remedy must be:
  • Effective (possible adverse effects, appropriate duration and timing, practicality or acceptable risks)
  • Cost effective
  • Proportionate
  • Consider relevant customer benefits
For the CMA there are 3 main categories of remedies:

- Structural (prohibition, divesture, IPs)
- Behavioural (IPs, enabling measures, controlling outcomes)
- Recommendations of regulations and conduct (when it lacks the ability to carry out relevant measures by itself)

During Phase 1 and pre-notification, the CMA cannot impose a remedy and only the parties can offer them.

In the case of Phase 1, if there are competition concerns, remedies can be offered as an alternative to go to Phase 2. During this stage the CMA can only propose modifications to the remedies offered by the parties. During Phase 1 is unlikely that the CMA will consider behavioural remedies unless those are workable and effective within the short timetable.

During Phase 2, the CMA will only consider possible remedies after it has reached its provisional finding and the conclusion is that the merger will have an anti-competitive outcome. In that case, the CMA will also publish a Notice of Possible Remedies to act as a starting point for discussion of remedies. Now the parties (and even third parties) can suggest alternatives to the initial remedies proposed by the CMA.

In this case, the CMA will consider its own proposals, the remedies proposed by the parties and the ones from third parties (non-confidential versions of these proposals will be published). After multiple hearing and consultations, the CMA will publish the Final Report with the final decision about the merger and the nature and scope of the remedies to implement.

The final stage would be the implementation of remedies, creating a new timetable, considering interim measures, establishing key milestones, etc.

European Commission

When assessing a proposed remedy, the European Commission will take into account if the remedy:
  • Is able to fully resolve the competition concerns.
  • Can be implemented within a short time period.
  • Will require additional monitoring once has been implemented.
  • Is a permanent solution.
  • Is proportionate and workable in practice.
  • Preserves any merger-specific benefits.
The characteristics of the market in question and the type, scale and scope of the remedy are also analysed.

The merging parties are the ones who propose remedies in this case. They also have to show that the remedies offered eliminate the problems and restore effective competition. The Commission is the one who has to proof that the conditions for a prohibition are met, irrespective of whether remedies have been offered or not.

For the European Commission there are 3 main categories of remedies:
  • Divestment (full or partial divestiture of a business or asset)
  • Removal of links with competitors (like minorities stakes between the parties and competitors)
  • Other remedies (including access to an intellectual property right, network, input or an infrastructure on fair terms; the change of long-term exclusive contracts; other behavioural remedies).
Remedies usually contain a review clause that allows the Commission to grant an extension of deadlines or, in some exceptional cases, waive, modify or substitute the remedies.

Remedies can be offered during Phase 1 and Phase 2.

During Phase 1 remedies make more sense when the competition problem is easy to identify and fix. They are usually offered to avoid Phase 2.

During Phase 2 remedies must be offered within 65 working days since the start of Phase 2. Depending on when that happens, the basic period of 90 days can be extend up to 125 working days. Remedies during Phase 2 are usually more specific and complex.

The European Commission usually conducts market tests for almost all remedies proposals in order to test if competition issues are properly addressed. These market tests are used for transparency purposes and to give third parties an opportunity to express their views before the final decision.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,055
With Google failing in cloud, and Amazon struggling, it would be bizarre if any regular tries to stop MS building a currently negligible market. Surely even *if* it ever ends up a significant market many years from now, huge if, and *if* MS is using anti-competitive methods then to maintain dominance, other companies will appeal to the EU to step in then.
 

Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
23,601
I feel like if Microsoft had purchased Take Two, Sony would have all the same arguments about how GTA was a unicorn too-big-to-be-owned-by-a-console-vendor game that was a special situation unlike anything else, too.
I mean, yeah? GTAV is only the best selling selling retail game of all time. I don't see why there can't be multiple series that are crucial for the home console market.
 

canderous

Prophet of Truth
Member
Jun 12, 2020
8,707
Yeah, I guess that can cut both ways? True, attempts keep failing. But the fact that probabality Xbox is on a unique potion to dominate that potential future market just got higher.

I believe that is a really silly argument at the end of the day but who knows what the regulators are thinking on it.

As it is, it seems like it is really hard to have a successful cloud gaming effort. But then the question becomes, if Xbox can do it with the backing of Mocrosoft twch, who can possibly succeed and create this supposed market?
Yes, it is a silly argument to me. "Other companies failed, so no one is allowed to invest in this market now." And it's not small time players failing to the mighty microsoft, it's friggin google and amazon. Plus, I'd say "giving up" is more appropriate rather than "failing." Google could have made changes to the business model and invested more into it, they chose not to.
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,323
I mean, yeah? GTAV is only the best selling selling retail game of all time. I don't see why there can't be multiple series that are crucial for the home console market.
You'd have to define crucial. We know that CoD contributes between 5-10% of Sony's revenue each year. If they lost that, would it be considered "crucial" to their ability to compete in the home console market? No. Same thing for GTA. How much in revenue does it contribute to Sony's (or any other competitor's) platform? It's going to be less than 5% in almost all circumstances, (barring their once every 10 year new release) so again, would that be considered "crucial?" No.
 

Raigor

Member
May 14, 2020
15,155
You'd have to define crucial. We know that CoD contributes between 5-10% of Sony's revenue each year. If they lost that, would it be considered "crucial" to their ability to compete in the home console market? No.

Yes.
Because COD brings people to your ecosystem spending money on your games and buying content through the store.

COD is crucial for this exact purpose, it's a console seller to the mainstream audience like FIFA.
 

Slowsonic

Member
Feb 25, 2018
441
Yes.
Because COD brings people to your ecosystem spending money on your games and buying content through the store.

COD is crucial for this exact purpose, it's a console seller to the mainstream audience like FIFA.
Sounds it's more crucial to maintain the status quo, but not crucial for Sony to remain competitive.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,399
Yes.
Because COD brings people to your ecosystem spending money on your games and buying content through the store.

COD is crucial for this exact purpose, it's a console seller to the mainstream audience like FIFA.

COD isn't the only game that brings people into an ecosystem. Several platforms have thrived without COD. There's no evidence that COD is an essential input. It's not crucial.

Sony in particular has countless games that draw people in .
 
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BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,323
Yes.
Because COD brings people to your ecosystem spending money on your games and buying content through the store.

COD is crucial for this exact purpose, it's a console seller to the mainstream audience like FIFA.
Was it crucial for Nintendo? On the PC side, was it crucial for Steam?
 

Tigerfish419

Member
Oct 28, 2021
4,522
I mean, yeah? GTAV is only the best selling selling retail game of all time. I don't see why there can't be multiple series that are crucial for the home console market.

Sony did say COD is in a category of its own and is so big no other game can compete, that can't be true if GTA is also that. Sony would be fine if COD or GTA went exclusive, I don't believe for a second the brand PlayStation would cease to exist pretty much because 1 massive title leaves the platform. I don't think Nintendo have that issue and neither does Steam. In my opinion a single title on any platform does not have enough power to collapse the platform if It went exclusive, no matter how big.
 

Sheepinator

Member
Jul 25, 2018
28,055
People don't buy switches to play COD (mostly because it's not on it yet)
They buy xbox's and playstation to exclusively only play that game.
What's the problem? MS has confirmed feature parity on PS5 for five more years, which is a long time in this industry. PUBG and Fortnite only came out five years ago, and look how huge they became. MS has also said verbally that CoD will be on PS indefinitely. This is only potentially an issue for PS6, which is a twinkle in the eye of someone in the R&D department atm.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,399
People don't buy switches to play COD (mostly because it's not on it yet)
They buy xbox's and playstation to exclusively only play that game.


People didn't but switches to play COD, because there was no COD on switch. Instead, people gravitated to the countless other reasons to own a switch.

Proof that a platform doesn't NEED to have COD in order for it to be successful.

If COD disappeared from Playstation today, there would still be countless reasons to buy a PlayStation.
 
Jul 22, 2022
1,867
People don't buy switches to play COD (mostly because it's not on it yet)
They buy xbox's and playstation to exclusively only play that game.
But so what? It did not prevent Switch to sell 100m+ consoles.

There is no particular (outside of Microsoft earning more money) why COD should be available to Sony. It is not important or crucial to Sony to a point where it would sudddenly announcement of leaving the console business.

There are too many people who believe that it is somehow important for the market to maintain the current status quo where Sony dominates the console gaming. I wonder if all those people just own Playstation? 🤔
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,323
People don't buy switches to play COD (mostly because it's not on it yet)
They buy xbox's and playstation to exclusively only play that game.
There's still no proof that that is a problem. Worst case scenario, someone buys an Xbox instead of a PlayStation. Given Sony's huge lead in the console market and the relatively low amount of annual revenue tied to CoD, it still isn't a major issue from a competitive standpoint. At worst, Sony loses some of its market share. That's how competition is supposed to work.
 

Iron Eddie

Banned
Nov 25, 2019
9,812
People don't buy switches to play COD (mostly because it's not on it yet)
They buy xbox's and playstation to exclusively only play that game.

I didn't see a /s with that comment so I will just elaborate then;

If that was the case consoles sales would have been better globally for the Xbox brand when Microsoft had marekting rights and perks, is this why PS5 is outselling the Xbox Series?
 
Sep 13, 2022
6,603
If COD disappeared from Playstation today, there would still be countless reasons to buy a PlayStation.
Im 100% for this deal going through because it benefits me.

But if COD left PlayStation, it wouldn't matter what other games it had. I wouldn't continue to buy their product as a primarily COD player.

I would probably it at the end of its life cycle to play the exclusives one after another after a library of games I like came out. (Not every first party title is for me) as it would be cheaper to do that than build a PC to run those games. But none of this matters because COD will probably never leave PlayStation in our lifetime unless the brand ceases to exist.
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,399
Im 100% for this deal going through because it benefits me.

But if COD left PlayStation, it wouldn't matter what other games it had. I wouldn't continue to buy their product as a primarily COD player.

I would probably it at the end of its life cycle to play the exclusives one after another after a library of games I like came out. (Not every first party title is for me) as it would be cheaper to do that than build a PC to run those games. But none of this matters because COD will probably never leave PlayStation in our lifetime unless the brand ceases to exist.

While this may be true for you, 90% of Playstation users don't play COD. Of the 10% that do, only a fraction of them are so tied to COD that they'd no longer have interest in PS.

This is important because while MS probably won't remove COD from PS, regulators must consider the "what if" scenario.
 

cyrribrae

Chicken Chaser
Member
Jan 21, 2019
12,723
Why do we continue to have this conversation as though COD being exclusive is a factor or possibility at all? It clearly won't be, no matter what happens. It's POSSIBLE that it might go exclusive in 6 years, but almost all indications are that it will stay multiplat even then. 6 years is plenty of time to pivot strategy and marketing from COD, no matter what happens. I understand the idea of protecting Sony from a sudden and completely unforeseeable market shock. But minimum 6 years notice is NOT that. Entire companies and genres of games have lived and died within 6 years. Let's advance the conversation a little bit here...

Im 100% for this deal going through because it benefits me.

But if COD left PlayStation, it wouldn't matter what other games it had. I wouldn't continue to buy their product as a primarily COD player.

I would probably it at the end of its life cycle to play the exclusives one after another after a library of games I like came out. (Not every first party title is for me) as it would be cheaper to do that than build a PC to run those games. But none of this matters because COD will probably never leave PlayStation in our lifetime unless the brand ceases to exist.
You're probably the worst case scenario. You only buy a PS5 to play COD, and since you have a PS5, you buy their exclusives earlier (and thus theoretically at a higher cost). Losing COD = losing all that revenue and a small amount from hardware.

And yet, you ALREADY have a PS5. Sony's marketing deal will remain for at least 2-3 years, beyond the generation's halfway mark. Meaning people who were going to buy a PS5 because they wanted to play the latest and greatest COD on the best(?) hardware would have already done so. And now you're left with the people who are jumping in late ANYWAY, even with COD. The impact of that user is already much lower at that point.

And honestly, there is an astronomically higher chance of people not bothering to buy a PS6 to play COD because the franchise SUCKS in 6 years (or entirely free to play on any number of devices) than because it's exclusive.

Yeah, I guess that can cut both ways? True, attempts keep failing. But the fact that probabality Xbox is on a unique potion to dominate that potential future market just got higher.

I believe that is a really silly argument at the end of the day but who knows what the regulators are thinking on it.

As it is, it seems like it is really hard to have a successful cloud gaming effort. But then the question becomes, if Xbox can do it with the backing of Mocrosoft twch, who can possibly succeed and create this supposed market?
I think that was true with Stadia. I think it's less true now with BOTH Google and Amazon going down. This just shows that this market is incredibly hard and that it's more likely to fail, even with massive investment - and that's true with very little meaningful monopolization of games between the cloud providers. The regulator would have to make the argument that cloud gaming is not only a healthy and sustainable market, but that it's poised to grow ever larger, explosively into the future. Obviously, there's some degree of crystal ball watching and you're right that we can't know what they're thinking. So maybe they do ignore everything or specifically interpret it nonsensically. But, I do think this situation benefits Microsoft more than anyone. On the other hand... Microsoft exclusively getting Fortnite on streaming DID shortly precede the deaths of Stadia and perhaps Luna.. so maybe there is something to this "big game kills all competition" o.O haha
 

BobLoblaw

This Guy Helps
Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,323
You're probably the worst case scenario. You only buy a PS5 to play COD, and since you have a PS5, you buy their exclusives earlier (and thus theoretically at a higher cost). Losing COD = losing all that revenue and a small amount from hardware.

And yet, you ALREADY have a PS5. Sony's marketing deal will remain for at least 2-3 years, beyond the generation's halfway mark. Meaning people who were going to buy a PS5 because they wanted to play the latest and greatest COD on the best(?) hardware would have already done so. And now you're left with the people who are jumping in late ANYWAY, even with COD. The impact of that user is already much lower at that point.

And honestly, there is an astronomically higher chance of people not bothering to buy a PS6 to play COD because the franchise SUCKS in 6 years (or entirely free to play on any number of devices) than because it's exclusive.
We also know that once the last CoD under agreement rolls around in 2024 that Microsoft is willing to commit to parity for the next 3 years, meaning no more marketing benefits for either platform for the rest of the gen. I don't think Microsoft would be willing to give that benefit up for the start of next gen, though, which could be a big deal for people who only buy "the best" version of CoD. Then, people get to make the decision they feel is better for them. Buy the definitive version on Xbox or stay in the Sony ecosystem and buy the regular "Xbox-like" version with no extra benefits. Either way, none of that would severely disrupt the market or make anyone unable to compete.
 

LilScooby77

Member
Dec 11, 2019
11,125
Cod isn't going exclusive
We also know that once the last CoD under agreement rolls around in 2024 that Microsoft is willing to commit to parity for the next 3 years, meaning no more marketing benefits for either platform for the rest of the gen. I don't think Microsoft would be willing to give that benefit up for the start of next gen, though, which could be a big deal for people who only buy "the best" version of CoD. Then, people get to make the decision they feel is better for them. Buy the definitive version on Xbox or stay in the Sony ecosystem and buy the regular "Xbox-like" version with no extra benefits. Either way, none of that would severely disrupt the market or make anyone unable to compete.
I'm sure MS only meant feature parity. They would absolutely get all the marketing for themselves.
 

Frieza

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,850
New article about the deal by the NY Times with a lot of new info.

Microsoft has upped their offer from 2027 to keeping Call of Duty on PlayStation for 10 more years which Sony declined to comment on. Sony still maintains gamers will have less choice if Microsoft acquires Activision and that Microsoft is a tech giant with a long history of dominating industries, Microsoft also expects Serbia to approve the deal very soon. Phil Spencer also showed UK officials an Xbox, PlayStation and a Nintendo Switch and Call of Duty and other games to show how dynamic the market is.

Can Big Tech Get Bigger? Microsoft Presses Governments to Say Yes.

David McCabe reports on tech policy from Washington, and Karen Weise reports on Microsoft from Seattle.
In recent weeks, Microsoft has accused Sony, its chief video game rival, of misleading regulators. Its lawyers have showed off game consoles, including an Xbox, to British officials. And the president of a major union that Microsoft wooedhas spoken up on the company's behalf to the Federal Trade Commission.

The actions are part of a campaign by Microsoft to counter intensifying scrutiny of its $69 billion acquisition of video game publisher Activision Blizzard, the largest consumer technology dealsince AOL bought Time Warner two decades ago, and far bigger than Elon Musk's recent $44 billion buyout of Twitter.
Microsoft's aim is simple: persuade skeptical governments around the globe to approve the blockbuster takeover. Sixteen governments must bless the purchase, putting Microsoft under the most regulatory pressure it has faced since the antitrust battles of the 1990s. And in three key places — the United States, the European Union and Britain — regulators have begun deep reviews, with the European Commission declaring this month that it was opening an in-depth investigation of the deal.
Whether Microsoft succeeds in gaining regulatory approval to buy Activision, which makes games such as Candy Crush and Call of Duty, will send a message about Big Tech's ability to expand in the face of mounting fears that industry giants wield too much power. If Microsoft, whose public affairs operation has spent the past decade building the company's nice-guy reputation, can't get a megadeal through, can anyone?
"If this deal had happened four years ago, this would hardly be of any interest," Brad Smith, Microsoft's president, said in an interview. "If one cannot do something easy, then we'll all know you can't do something hard."
Google, Meta, Amazon and Apple have all faced increasing accusations that they are monopolies, and regulators have tried to block some of their smaller deals. In July, the F.T.C. sued Meta, Facebook's parent company, to stop it from buying Within, a virtual reality start-up. Last month, Britain forced Meta to sell Giphy, an image database it bought in 2020 for $315 million.
At the heart of regulators' concerns about the Activision deal is whether it violates antitrust laws by giving Microsoft outsize power in the video game industry. They worry that Microsoft could pull Activision's games away from competitors like Sony or use them to get an unfair leg up as more gaming is streamed online.
Mr. Smith said Microsoft was open to formally agreeing to place limits on its business practices to resolve antitrust concerns. But the United States and other countries increasingly see such promises as insufficient unless a company spins off part of its business.
Microsoft's deal for Activision will demonstrate whether tech giants can navigate the new environment, said William E. Kovacic, a former F.T.C. chairman. "It's a fundamental test," he said.

Microsoft has been less successful in neutering opposition from Sony, which makes the PlayStation console. Sony has argued that Microsoft could pull Call of Duty from PlayStation to lure players to Xbox.
Microsoft has denied that it would do that. "The first call Satya and I made after the deal was announced was to the C.E.O. of Sony to say, 'Hey, we're going to keep Call of Duty on your platform,'" said Phil Spencer, Microsoft's gaming chief.
Sony was not appeased. In filings in Brazil, the company argued that Call of Duty was such a powerful game franchise that Microsoft could use it to hurt rivals. It hired a consulting firm to set up meetings on Capitol Hill, two people familiar with the matter said. And its arguments were repeatedly cited in a decision by Britain's regulator in September to pursue a deeper investigation.
Microsoft accused Sony of misleading the regulator, saying it "overstated the importance of Call of Duty to its viability."
Mr. Spencer said that "maintaining and growing the existing Call of Duty business is pretty central to the economics of the deal."
In a statement, Jim Ryan, the chief executive of Sony Interactive Entertainment, said it was "not true" that his company had misled regulators. He said that Microsoft was "a tech giant with a long history of dominating industries" and that "it is highly likely that the choices gamers have today will disappear if this deal goes ahead."
Microsoft said that on Nov. 11 it offered Sony a 10-year deal to keep Call of Duty on PlayStation. Sony declined to comment on the offer.
Last month, Mr. Spencer and other Microsoft executives brought an Xbox, a PlayStation, a Nintendo Switch and other devices to a meeting with regulators in London, where they showed off Call of Duty and other games to illustrate a dynamic market, people familiar with the visit said.
Regulators are also worried what the deal might mean for the future, when cloud computing lets people stream sophisticated games to various devices, including mobile phones.

There's more in the article

www.nytimes.com

Can Big Tech Get Bigger? Microsoft Presses Governments to Say Yes.

Microsoft’s $69 billion deal for Activision Blizzard, which is undergoing reviews in 16 countries, has become a test for whether tech giants can buy companies amid a backlash.
 
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Windu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,632
This deal seems to be increasingly about whether a large company like Microsoft can buy someone at all. And not if it lessens competition. Regulators see the sticker price of this deal and the company doing the acquisition and are freaking out without any due diligence.
 
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christocolus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,932
New article about the deal by the NY Times with a lot of new info.

Microsoft has upped their offer from 2027 to keeping Call of Duty on PlayStation for 10 more years which Sony declined to comment on. Sony is accusing Microsoft of continuing to mislead regulators and that Microsoft is a tech giant with a long history of dominating industries, Microsoft also expects Serbia to approve the deal very soon. Phil Spencer also showed UK officials an Xbox, PlayStation and a Nintendo Switch and Call of Duty and other games to show how dynamic the market is.

Can Big Tech Get Bigger? Microsoft Presses Governments to Say Yes.





There's more in the article

www.nytimes.com

Can Big Tech Get Bigger? Microsoft Presses Governments to Say Yes.

Microsoft’s $69 billion deal for Activision Blizzard, which is undergoing reviews in 16 countries, has become a test for whether tech giants can buy companies amid a backlash.
some really interesting quotes here.
Jim Ryan, the chief executive of Sony Interactive Entertainment, said it was "not true" that his company had misled regulators. He said that Microsoft was "a tech giant with a long history of dominating industries" and that "it is highly likely that the choices gamers have today will disappear if this deal goes ahead."
Microsoft said that on Nov. 11 it offered Sony a 10-year deal to keep Call of Duty on PlayStation. Sony declined to comment on the offer.
Last month, Mr. Spencer and other Microsoft executives brought an Xbox, a PlayStation, a Nintendo Switch and other devices to a meeting with regulators in London, where they showed off Call of Duty and other games to illustrate a dynamic market, people familiar with the visit said.
 
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OP
OP
Idas

Idas

Antitrusting By Keyboard
Member
Mar 20, 2022
2,027
New article about the deal by the NY Times with a lot of new info.

Microsoft has upped their offer from 2027 to keeping Call of Duty on PlayStation for 10 more years which Sony declined to comment on. Sony still maintains gamers will have less choice if Microsoft acquires Activision and that Microsoft is a tech giant with a long history of dominating industries, Microsoft also expects Serbia to approve the deal very soon. Phil Spencer also showed UK officials an Xbox, PlayStation and a Nintendo Switch and Call of Duty and other games to show how dynamic the market is.

Can Big Tech Get Bigger? Microsoft Presses Governments to Say Yes.

There's more in the article

www.nytimes.com

Can Big Tech Get Bigger? Microsoft Presses Governments to Say Yes.

Microsoft’s $69 billion deal for Activision Blizzard, which is undergoing reviews in 16 countries, has become a test for whether tech giants can buy companies amid a backlash.

Serbia! I checked that back in May - June but there was no info. Nothing from MS yet.

I think this part of the article is very relevant:

In the United States, more than 10 staff members at the F.T.C. are reviewing the deal, a person with knowledge of the agency said. They interviewed executives, including Mr. Nadella and Mr. Smith, in the late summer and fall.

And in a sign that the F.T.C. may be building a legal challenge to the deal, two people said it had recently asked other companies about offering sworn statements to lay out their concerns.

I starting to believe that the FTC will challenge the deal.

It really feels like this acquisition is being used as a test for the future of Big Tech, because as Brad Smith says, a few years ago this transaction wouldn't have been such a problem
 
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Jul 22, 2022
1,867
Sony still maintains gamers will have less choice if Microsoft acquires Activision and that Microsoft is a tech giant with a long history of dominating industries,
That coming from Sony is a "lol"

I starting to believe that the FTC will challenge the deal.
Then it is gonna be a circus. Epic vs Apple on steroids. But essentially it boils down to if Sony is willing to go to the courts because they are the only party opposing the deal.
 
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vixolus

Prophet of Truth
Member
Sep 22, 2020
54,725
Ugh it's so crazy that its all down to call of duty. TEN YEARS guaranteed is two generations, current and next, and i doubt they pull it at the third anyway.

And if they do, Sony not having a plan after ten years over a single franchise is bad.
 

christocolus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
14,932
It's going to be an interesting ride.
Lol if it does go to court it will go through but dear God the toxicity will kill us all.
I'll be here just for the drama.
Ugh it's so crazy that its all down to call of duty. TEN YEARS guaranteed is two generations, current and next, and i doubt they pull it at the third anyway.

And if they do, Sony not having a plan after ten years over a single franchise is bad.
They also refused to comment on the 10 year guarantee. I wonder why..lol
 

Bessy67

Member
Oct 29, 2017
11,661
Would Sony even want this to go to court? There would be a lot of dirty laundry being shown to the world...
 
Jul 22, 2022
1,867
If it went to court, it would the Government vs. Microsoft. Sony wouldn't be the one bringing them to court.
Sony will have to be present in the court as a witness (or whatever they are called in such cases). Microsoft will bring the defense (no idea how they are called in that case) but I guess they will have T2, Epic, Riot etc. on their side I guess?

If the deal goes to the court Sony won't be able to escape the court hearings.
 

Wereroku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,261
Would Sony even want this to go to court? There would be a lot of dirty laundry being shown to the world...
The only thing that could come out about Sony are their agreements with Activision. MS would be the one that would have to submit to discovery. Also then fighting it in court would burn all of the good guy goodwill they worked to build up for decades.
 

Gavalanche

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 21, 2021
17,535
Would Sony even want this to go to court? There would be a lot of dirty laundry being shown to the world...

Only Activision deals and maybe other contract stuff stopping companies from releasing on gamepass would be revealed, and we already know that they do that so what other dirty laundry would there be that is relevant?
 

Trup1aya

Literally a train safety expert
Member
Oct 25, 2017
21,399
Ugh it's so crazy that its all down to call of duty. TEN YEARS guaranteed is two generations, current and next, and i doubt they pull it at the third anyway.

And if they do, Sony not having a plan after ten years over a single franchise is bad.

It really is the stupidest timeline when regulators entertain the idea that COD is an essential commodity.
 
Jul 22, 2022
1,867
The only thing that could come out about Sony are their agreements with Activision.
No. Sony will have provide more documents regarding their revenue split, network effects, third party deals effects in so on. And Microsoft will provide additional info like "no Game Pass deals", Final Fantasy deals, Spider man and so on. All the details that were in the letters to regulators (like the brazilian one) but with more details and information.

The whole case is built on the idea that COD is more important that any other deal in the existence, so we will see the receipts why "deal X is important why the deal X is not", we will see "how sony is trying to decimate Game Pass", we will see third party deals information, we will see the documents regarding stuff like cross-play and potentially other dealings because Sony has a stronger market position and Microsoft will present some documents confirming that and so on.

It will be a circus.

MS would be the one that would have to submit to discovery. Also then fighting it in court would burn all of the good guy goodwill they worked to build up for decades.
What? Microsoft won't burn any goodwill in the courts - in fact they will gain more simply because a lot of Sony's shady stuff will come to light (like crossplay tax for example). It certainly did not do Sony many favors. And there is more of it.

Only Activision deals and maybe other contract stuff stopping companies from releasing on gamepass would be revealed, and we already know that they do that so what other dirty laundry would there be that is relevant?
For example we will probably hear about cross-play tax again because Microsoft will argue that the console market needs more competition and it will bring the receipts of Sony's position and their actions they did to leverage it. There will be more info about third party exclusive deals (because Microsoft will have to argue that IP going exclusive is not something nenw) and we will probably learn more about FF deal and so on. After all the core case is "COD is more important than any other deal of existence to a point that the dominating market leader can wither and die".
 

Gavalanche

Prophet of Regret
Member
Oct 21, 2021
17,535
The only real reason this is even an issue is because of Starfield. If Starfield had been multiplatform no one would have a reason to doubt them. But its given a reason to doubt, and that is big in this case.

Well, not the only reason, but a major one.
 

Gay Bowser

Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,724
This deal seems to be increasingly about whether a large company like Microsoft can buy someone at all. And not if it lessens competition.

That's sort of the feeling I get, too.

You have to pull some serious mental gymnastics to be, like, Microsoft can't buy Activision because of Azure.

Microsoft's going to do something with its wealth. Compared to the alternative of investing to become even more dominant in the enterprise/productivity space I'd rather Microsoft use that wealth to bolster their games business, where they're lagging, or move into other adjacent media verticals.