The Nature of Causality: What Should Switch Owners Do in Regards to Delayed Multiplatform Games?

[mutantmagnet]

When new games are released switch versions will outsell the some of the ps4 (since ms falls behind more and more each year) and more games will be considered for the platform.

Well that is until ps5 is more than a year old.

 

[Deleted member 9486]

So thank God there are people that are always wearing the company's hat and go on full defense for them. Everything is excusable for them. And lucky me I'm always wearing the customer hat so that would never prevent me to complain about something going on with the game industry that I don't agree. Now I must bail this thread and play more Xenoblade 2 because the trend of delaying secondary platforms and giving no excuses will go on as there is always someone to defend the poor publisher's bad pratices and shady business 24/7.

Ps: And don't reduce my arguments just to Nintendo. There's shit going on in every platform with the same subject.

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My only issue is that it's not "shady." They make their decision based on profits (including any money hatting, help with marketing etc.) vs effort required to do the port.

I don't necessarily defend any one publisher. I have zero loyalty to any corporation. I'm just a capitalist and not a socialist leftist like a lot of people here. I make all my business decisions, investing decisions etc. on what makes me the most money with the least risk. I can hardly fault publishers for doing the same.

I'm also smart enough to alway main whatever platform is lead in a given generation (fuck adopting day one before things are played out) and generally end up owning all platforms so it's all moot for me.

 

[bbq of doom]

With the last minute delay of Dark Souls, this really is due to the incompetence of Bandai Namco of some level. Or at the very least, a severe lack of communication, especially when we have seen Dark Souls running great just a week ago.

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Gonna need receipts for this.

 

[Deleted member 2317]

7 year old port gets delayed a bit longer and people start having meltdowns damn.

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Ether.

 

[Braaier]

Maybe we should consider the fact that Nintendo's constantly releasing hardware that isn't congruent with its competitors, at different cycles, and has a long arduous history of not courting dev support and/or not fostering a fan base beyond first party buyers. Just coz the Switch is an overnight success (at a level even Nintendo wasn't expecting, apparently) it doesn't mean developers should be giving it priority overnight. They need time, and receipts. The system's doing great so far, but Nintendo still has huge improvements to make. Sorry.

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But Nintendo has done a fantastic job of courting third parties with the switch?

I agree about the switch being a different architecture from its competitors, which is why I understand why only the switch version was delayed

 

[MoonFrog]

Re: the subject

Wait and buy it if you want the game particularly on Switch. If you want it now more than you particularly want it on Switch, buy it at launch on another platform.

I don't suggest politicizing your purchases over things like "which platform do you support." Even if your purchase was particularly weighty (it isn't, taken alone), I don't think there is any way to send your intended message here: the only messages you can send is "I want this game, even late" or "I don't want this game."

Re: Switch port-begging

There is a mismatch between a) Switch's success, b) the resonance of the hybrid proposition, and c) the current demographics of the Switch and d) the support Switch is getting. There is also a mismatch between e) Nintendo's positioning of the Switch wrt current development streams (particularly in Japan), f) the sales success of Switch, and, again, c) the current demographics of the Switch and, again, d) the support Switch is getting. That is, considering both of these mismatches, Switch g) has owners that want more games on Switch that don't traditionally come to Nintendo platforms and h) should probably be getting more such games than it currently is.

Yes: Nintendo has a history of marching to the beat of its own drum. It has a history of weak third party relations. It has a history of recent failure in home consoles. Handhelds seemed on a strictly downward trajectory and most doomed by mobile.

Put up against competitors that produce machines third parties expect and understand and who have a proven market, which beat off fears of extinction handily at the start of the generation, and it is obvious, if unfortunate, why Nintendo is left out of so many equations or an after-thought.

Nintendo has done a lot with the Switch to simultaneously do their own thing and to make themselves attractive to people doing other things. I think they have a winning formula and that should attract growing support but there is going to be sluggishness and resistance. There is going to be failure of things, which really ought to be on Switch, being on Switch.

I just hope the final picture is incredibly vibrant. Switch could be so much.

 

[saenima]

Guys... I think i figured it out...

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Oh lord. This thread was worth it after all.

 

[signal]

"The Nature of Causality" kind of sounds like a phrase that would be in a Souls game. Maybe it's new text that appears when killing someone as part of the Princess Guard convenant and the game is delayed for the new mechanic :think:

 

[The Shape]

I find this whole situation odd. I thought the benefit of this remaster was for Nintendo players to be able to play the game and for old timers to play the game on the go. Now the game is being released on PS4, XONE and PC months before the Switch version. But almost everyone that wanted to play this game has already played in the last seven years.

 

[Omeganex9999]

Regarding your last point (shit happens) I'm pretty sure I've made similar remarks in both of the threads. Delays happen. They suck for everyone. That doesn't mean we can't complain about them.

And if you want a better restaurant analogy here's a better one:

You go to a restaurant with 3 friends, and order an old classic meal, like pasta primavera. You ask for it with extra cheese but no onions, and your three friends order the same dish but ask for it with extra chicken.

So the waiter takes your orders and gives your order to one chef, while he gives the other three orders to another chef. 20 minutes later the waiter comes out and says that something happened (he doesn't say what) and that your dish will take an indeterminate amount of extra time, but your friends' dishes will all be out in 5 minutes.

Would you complain?

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It doesn't work this way.

Matter of fact, the content is the same, so this analogy is not right. In this case the difference is that the chef that is cooking the three orders is familiar with that kitchen, while the other one isn't. Chef 2 doesn't know where the tools are, he has to spend a lot of time looking around for stuff and ingredients. By the time he has found everything and can start cooking, Chef 1 is already done.

Is Chef 2 lazy or incompetent? Should Chef 1 delay the three people dishes to avoid pissing the other customer off?

The Switch has a different architecture and it's been out for only a year. It requires extra work since you can't easily scale down a PS4 game on it.

If you think developers are trying to sabotage the Switch, you are just wrong. This delay sucks, I want to play DS on the go too, but just be happy this and DQ XI are coming.

 

[Piscus]

Guys... I think i figured it out...

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This post would be hilarious... if it wasn't so accurate.

 

[Skittzo]

It doesn't work this way.

Matter of fact, the content is the same, so this analogy is not right. In this case the difference is that the chef that is cooking the three orders is familiar with that kitchen, while the other one isn't. Chef 2 doesn't know where the tools are, he has to spend a lot of time looking around for stuff and ingredients. By the time he has found everything and can start cooking, Chef 1 is already done.

Is Chef 2 lazy or incompetent? Should Chef 1 delay the three people dishes to avoid pissing the other customer off?

The Switch has a different architecture and it's been out for only a year. It requires extra work since you can't easily scale down a PS4 game on it.

If you think developers are trying to sabotage the Switch, you are just wrong. This delay sucks, I want to play DS on the go too, but just be happy this and DQ XI are coming.

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If you'd looked at what I said you'll have noticed I never claimed anyone is trying to sabotage things, and I never claimed anyone is lazy or incompetent.

All I'm saying is that it's perfectly natural to be annoyed and want to complain about this, and there were people calling out others for doing just that- complaining about this. I'm sure Bandai, Virtuous and Nintendo are just as pissed about this delay as we are.

That doesn't mean we have to shut up and take it.

 

[4Tran]

If you'd looked at what I said you'll have noticed I never claimed anyone is trying to sabotage things, and I never claimed anyone is lazy or incompetent.

All I'm saying is that it's perfectly natural to be annoyed and want to complain about this, and there were people calling out others for doing just that- complaining about this. I'm sure Bandai, Virtuous and Nintendo are just as pissed about this delay as we are.

That doesn't mean we have to shut up and take it.

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But game delays happen all the time. Why is this one more special than the rest, and why would the companies involved be more concerned than usual?

 

[Omeganex9999]

If you'd looked at what I said you'll have noticed I never claimed anyone is trying to sabotage things, and I never claimed anyone is lazy or incompetent.

All I'm saying is that it's perfectly natural to be annoyed and want to complain about this, and there were people calling out others for doing just that- complaining about this. I'm sure Bandai, Virtuous and Nintendo are just as pissed about this delay as we are.

That doesn't mean we have to shut up and take it.

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We agree on this, absolutely. Delays suck.

Sorry if it sounded like I wast talking about you. I used your post to reply to many other posts in the thread, should have made it clearer.

 

[Deleted member 33]

We have had Bandai Namco hold Dragon Ball Fighter Z hostage, saying they would only port it to the Switch if the one year late Xenoverse 2 did well(it did, and we still haven't heard anything about it).

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Nah, Bandai Namco isn't holding DBFZ hostage. Namco knows Switch owners want it.

 

[Skittzo]

But game delays happen all the time. Why is this one more special than the rest, and why would the companies involved be more concerned than usual?

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Well for starters this happened quite a bit closer to release than most delays do. Also it's a delay of only a single SKU, and that rarely happens. Sometimes it happens for PC, but again it's pretty rare that a PC release that was planned to happen simultaneously gets delayed indefinitely a month before it should've launched.

Finally, this game was announced in a Nintendo Direct, and pre-orders on Amazon were showing the Switch version was the most desired SKU by far. Both BN and Nintendo must realize that this delay greatly reduces the sales potential for this title, not only because it'll be available on other platforms for months (well it's been available for 7 years but that's neither here nor there) but also because May was a fairly light release period for the Switch, while the Summer is absolutely stacked.

We agree on this, absolutely. Delays suck.

Sorry if it sounded like I wast talking about you. I used your post to reply to many other posts in the thread, should have made it clearer.

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No worries, I just like to clarify my position in heated threads like this. It makes discussion a lot easier.

 

[Sub Boss]

I find this whole situation odd. I thought the benefit of this remaster was for Nintendo players to be able to play the game and for old timers to play the game on the go. Now the game is being released on PS4, XONE and PC months before the Switch version. But almost everyone that wanted to play this game has already played in the last seven years.

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The principal benefit for msking this remaster is money, if hungry fans get Dark Souls on their PS4 then want it on their toilets they will double dip.
Nintendo fans will either buy it or not anyways, its not like summer is packed as far as we know

 

[sn00zer]

I have a hard time imagining there are Switch owners without another console. Im reserving my Switch exclusively for smaller games with no parity with other consoles (sonic mania, celeste) and exclusives. There is very little reason for me to wait for a switch version unless i think a game is enhanved by neing portable or on a smaller screen (again smaller titles)

 

[Deleted member 12833]

Guess that is the nature of being a platform that is significantly weaker than the comp and also having the smallest userbase. It isn't going to be top priority

 

[4Tran]

Well for starters this happened quite a bit closer to release than most delays do. Also it's a delay of only a single SKU, and that rarely happens. Sometimes it happens for PC, but again it's pretty rare that a PC release that was planned to happen simultaneously gets delayed indefinitely a month before it should've launched.

Finally, this game was announced in a Nintendo Direct, and pre-orders on Amazon were showing the Switch version was the most desired SKU by far. Both BN and Nintendo must realize that this delay greatly reduces the sales potential for this title, not only because it'll be available on other platforms for months (well it's been available for 7 years but that's neither here nor there) but also because May was a fairly light release period for the Switch, while the Summer is absolutely stacked.

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The most likely cause is still a technical delay, so what does any of this have to do with it? If a game isn't ready, it isn't ready and no amount of wringing your hands is going to change that.

 

[Mo0]

I have a hard time imagining there are Switch owners without another console. Im reserving my Switch exclusively for smaller games with no parity with other consoles (sonic mania, celeste) and exclusives. There is very little reason for me to wait for a switch version unless i think a game is enhanved by neing portable or on a smaller screen (again smaller titles)

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I know plenty of them. Not everyone keeps up with gaming trends and are perfectly fine buying a Nintendo system every few years because it's what they're familiar with.

Combine that with anybody that'd get labeled a Nintendo fanboy in another context and it's probably more people than you'd think.

 

[StevieP]

Guess that is the nature of being a platform that is significantly weaker than the comp and also having the smallest userbase. It isn't going to be top priority

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Yeah I heard the Switch has a difficult time running straight ports of xbox 360 games. I also heard that Switch owners aren't hungry for software.

 

[Deleted member 12833]

Yeah I heard the Switch has a difficult time running straight ports of xbox 360 games. I also heard that Switch owners aren't hungry for software.

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I hear port begging threads are more important than budgeting, resource allocation, and ROI when making business decisions.

 

[Skittzo]

The most likely cause is still a technical delay, so what does any of this have to do with it? If a game isn't ready, it isn't ready and no amount of wringing your hands is going to change that.

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I'm not saying there's anything different about it, of course it's likely a technical delay and I'd rather have a working game than a broken one. None of that changes any of what I said. It can still suck for everyone involved, moreso than a typical delay.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

What's Nintendo's excuse for selling full priced old ports or never discounting games?

Lets face it Nintendo wrings as much money out of their fanbase as they can too.

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This guy gets it

 

[Deleted member 9486]

I know plenty of them. Not everyone keeps up with gaming trends and are perfectly fine buying a Nintendo system every few years because it's what they're familiar with.

Combine that with anybody that'd get labeled a Nintendo fanboy in another context and it's probably more people than you'd think.

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They probably meant people on here complaining about the delay, rather than anyone in general. But even here, there are probably more Nintendo only owners on here than any other platform. Nintendo has a hell of a legion of diehards. The portable only folk are largely Switch only too unless they're still working on 3DS or Vita backlogs.

That said, I imagine those folks would be less salty about ports since Nintendo and Portables have gotten such terrible third party support for ever (portables) or the pasta 20+ years (Nintendo) so they should be happy to be getting more period. *shrugs*

 

[Eidan]

The game is delayed months. MONTHS. If buying it on another console is not an option for you, I suggest playing another game on your Switch, or taking your Switch out on the go and eventually stashing it away as you realize there's a world of things to do and experience, and that you can handle a 7 year old port's delay.

You're stronger than you think.

 

[Mysterio79]

Re: the subject

Wait and buy it if you want the game particularly on Switch. If you want it now more than you particularly want it on Switch, buy it at launch on another platform.

I don't suggest politicizing your purchases over things like "which platform do you support." Even if your purchase was particularly weighty (it isn't, taken alone), I don't think there is any way to send your intended message here: the only messages you can send is "I want this game, even late" or "I don't want this game."

Re: Switch port-begging

There is a mismatch between a) Switch's success, b) the resonance of the hybrid proposition, and c) the current demographics of the Switch and d) the support Switch is getting. There is also a mismatch between e) Nintendo's positioning of the Switch wrt current development streams (particularly in Japan), f) the sales success of Switch, and, again, c) the current demographics of the Switch and, again, d) the support Switch is getting. That is, considering both of these mismatches, Switch g) has owners that want more games on Switch that don't traditionally come to Nintendo platforms and h) should probably be getting more such games than it currently is.

Yes: Nintendo has a history of marching to the beat of its own drum. It has a history of weak third party relations. It has a history of recent failure in home consoles. Handhelds seemed on a strictly downward trajectory and most doomed by mobile.

Put up against competitors that produce machines third parties expect and understand and who have a proven market, which beat off fears of extinction handily at the start of the generation, and it is obvious, if unfortunate, why Nintendo is left out of so many equations or an after-thought.

Nintendo has done a lot with the Switch to simultaneously do their own thing and to make themselves attractive to people doing other things. I think they have a winning formula and that should attract growing support but there is going to be sluggishness and resistance. There is going to be failure of things, which really ought to be on Switch, being on Switch.

I just hope the final picture is incredibly vibrant. Switch could be so much.

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P.O.T.T

(The illustrious Saucer approved Post of The Thread)

 

[Pocky4Th3Win]

So not to get off topic but anyone preorder Dark Souls from Best Buy? My order updated with a release date of 12/31. Which usually means it has no date now.

 

[Deleted member 7462]

I have to be honest, but I've never understood the viewpoint that delayed releases on Nintendo consoles are necessarily a thing to get upset about. It seems pretty clear that the last three Nintendo home consoles (well, last five in some ways, really) aren't in line with what Sony or Microsoft are doing, and so it sometimes takes extra work to get a game to the console, or maybe there's no confidence that the game will perform for Nintendo's audience specifically, which is somewhat different than for the other companies.

It is what it is. I don't see why one should be upset about it, but that's me. Sometimes, I wait for it to come out on Switch. Sometimes, I just buy it twice, which is easy to justify since I'm getting it for a portable console at least one of those times.